Damn!!!! More good news on the economy! LOL @ Dems

We know they'll never learn, in fact they will skip those articles all together. There needs to be more people spreading the word of tax-cuts rather than tax hikes. It's a basic theory, people who earn money dont want to give it away, people who earn nothing want them to pay. Keep up the good work.

Ross

We'll talk about the vibrancy of the US economy after the Holiday Shopping Season™. Seems to me like you're cherry picking the volumes of data that needs to be analyzed that came out of the Commerce Dept yesterday. GDP isn't a monolith and no one knows how many more Merrill Lynches there are out there. The Housing Crisis and the record cost of home heating oil should be enough to have economists look back in three years and see that the recession by sector began in July of this year. The people are feeling it already no matter what your shiny GDP number says. Have you bought a gallon of milk lately?

The Housing Crisis and the record cost of home heating oil should be enough to have economists look back in three years and see that the recession by sector began in July of this year

Except a recession is a decline in GDP growth for two or more successive quarters. So another anxious liberal trying to find the negative is factually refuted again.

Next

Tax cuts work - every time they're tried.

Except for all those times when they fail. Not even David Stockman believes that crap you're flinging.

Very good point, neocon.
The recession probability index is now down to less than 10%. And the valuation of the USD$ makes recession even less likely. Not all indicators are looking up, and the market will remain skiddish for a while; but overall the economy is still in excellent shape.

If Gabrielle's post sounds eerily familiar it's because 3moreyears posted exactly the same prediction last year at this same time; just like the perennial Chicago Cubs fan, "Wait 'till next year" is their favorite refrain.

What a great analogy: the Chicago Cubs fans and liberals. So much hope, promise, and anticipation only to be slapped down time and time again by reality.

Hey, I'm a Cubbies Fan, too!

On the other hand, the GDP numbers don’t show the following; Nominal GDP fell in the third quarter, the increases in oil aren’t reflected in 3rd quarter numbers as the price increases haven’t hit the pump yet. I believe the GDP will be revised downward to 3.2% ~ 3.5% or thereabouts.

On the plus side the bulk contributors to the rise in GDP were consumption, Nonresidential fixed investment, and exports.

When you consider that residential fixed investments (housing) and imports both were a drag on the economy the rise in GDP is even stronger evidence of a robust economy. (Exports outpaced imports owing to the weakening dollar; as we predicted months ago, and made US products more desirable overseas; and nonresidential investments far outpaced residential; real estate is still a good investment.) And government input is still the smallest contributor to GDP. (Take that Keynesians!)

Mark,
If only saying it made it so...

Stocks Plunge in Early Trading on Weak Consumer Spending Report, Another Jump in Oil Prices
NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street plunged Thursday as multiplying concerns about inflation and slower economic growth erased optimism about the Federal Reserve's positive take on the economy just a day earlier. The Dow Jones industrials skidded nearly 200 points. Inflation fears revived as crude oil vaulted to a record $96 a barrel before easing. Meanwhile, a report from the Commerce Department indicated consumers scaled back their spending in September as worries mounted about a worsening housing market and further credit market turmoil. And a trade group reported that manufacturing in the U.S. grew in October at the weakest pace since March

By Noelle Knox, USA TODAY
Home prices fell in at least 45 metropolitan areas in the third quarter as the real estate slowdown spread beyond industrial cities, where job losses have taking their toll on housing, to inflated markets in Florida, California and Arizona.
While the Detroit was the worst hit, with home prices falling almost 11% between July 1 and Sept. 30, the Sarasota, Fla., area was second with a 9% drop in the median single-family home price, according to data released Monday by the National Association of Realtors.

Citigroup Falls to Four-Year Low After Analyst Cuts (Update2)
By Bradley Keoun and Sebastian Boyd
Nov. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Citigroup Inc., the largest U.S. bank, fell to the lowest in four years in New York trading after three analysts cut their ratings and CIBC World Markets said the company may have to reduce its dividend to shore up capital.
CIBC and Morgan Stanley recommended investors sell the shares, while Credit Suisse analyst Susan Roth Katzke reduced her rating to the equivalent of hold from buy. Citigroup may have to sell assets, shrinking opportunities for growth, CIBC said.

Number of U.S. homes facing foreclosure doubles
By ALEX VEIGA
LOS ANGELES — A soaring number of U.S. homeowners struggled to make mortgage payments in the third quarter, with properties in some stage of foreclosure more than doubling from the same time last year, a mortgage data company said Thursday.
A total of 446,726 homes nationwide were targeted by some sort of foreclosure activity from July to September, up 100.1 percent from 223,233 properties in the year-ago period, according to Irvine-based RealtyTrac Inc.

Nov. 1, 2007, 9:42AM
Chrysler plans to cut up to 12,000 jobs
By DEE-ANN DURBIN
Associated Press
DETROIT — Chrysler LLC said today it plans to cut up to 12,000 jobs, or up to 15 percent of its work force, as part of an effort to slash costs and match slowing demand for some vehicles.
The automaker will cut 8,500 to 10,000 hourly jobs through 2008 and salaried employment by about 2,100. It will eliminate shifts at five North American assembly plants and eliminate four models from its line-up.

A year before voting, a nation of discontent
Divided by the war and anxious about the future, Americans want some fixes
By Susan Page
USA TODAY
Call us the Unhappy States of America.
One year before Election Day 2008, most Americans are dismayed by the country's direction, pessimistic about the Iraq war and anxious about the economy. Two of three disapprove of the job President Bush is doing. Nearly a year after Democrats took control of Congress, three of four Americans say it isn't achieving much, either.
In all, 72% of those surveyed in a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Oct. 12-14 say they are dissatisfied with how things are going in the USA while just 26% are satisfied. Not since April have even one-third of Americans been happy with the country's course, the longest national funk in 15 years.
"Don't get me wrong, America's a great country," says Lori Jones, 46, a medical assistant in Phoenix. But she worries about her family's finances and prospects for the next generation. "I think we've somehow lost our way."

Mack,
Other than your usual pessimism, what does any of that have to do with the subject?

Bane, I suspect Mack has his computer set to do an automatic Google search every morning for "ECONOMIC DOOM & GLOOM". It must just suck to be that much of a pessimist. I can't imagine what his blood pressure must be. Maybe he'll have a stroke, and we won't have to listen to him anymore.

markie markalicous one:
i agree tax cuts work
however.......last time i checked we had....
-The largest government in our country's history
-The biggest dept in our country's history
-The weakest dollar in our country's history
-The highest price of oil in our country's history (blame the war, not the Chinese)
but i'm sure you'll be able to refute these claims?

can we stop borrowing and start saving!!!!!

Spook,

If they want to discuss the most recent economic indices and the long or short term impact; or the reasons thereof perhaps they should do so.

A cut and paste of the latest negative economic news doesn’t constitute a discussion. Example; “ Wall Street plunged Thursday” only indicates what I’ve already stated; the market will continue to be skittish as investors look for equity in a volatile market. “a report from the Commerce Department indicated consumers scaled back their spending in September” is a silly observation as I’ve already stated that consumption is the largest contributor to the increase in GDP.

More, “ Home prices fell in at least 45 metropolitan areas” as I’ve already stated, residential investment is a drag on the economy while non-residential investment far exceeded the drop in residential. Citigroup, Chrysler and Ford and a number of other businesses are struggling. Such is as it always shall be. The record for business failures was the same year as a record was set for startups (1993). Business isn’t a guarantee of success; never has been. And yet, as they find every article on every adverse economic condition the economy continues growing.

You know I’m not saying everything on the economic front is purely positive, but to continue to waste time and resources while the time to make your fortune passes you by is sad, and scary; coronary thrombosis wise.

Isn't there something in the economy worth actually discussing?

Did you ever wake up and feel you just ain't paying enough in taxes.? I don't think many do. It is time for the states to realize that the democrats are not really for the working class. When they constantly are trying to sell the public a story of how broke the state is, you look into it and find tons of wasteful spending, unnecessary programs. And an arrogance that they are running the state so effiecently that no cuts or reforms are necessary

Where’s my razor, I’m slitting my wrists.

I was perusing the economic news when I came across this headline over at pMSNBC: “Slump in jobless claims larger than expected.” You had to read the entry to realize this was good news, it reads like there is a disaster in the making “slump” instead of the reality of more jobs and more people working.

The next headline was “Oil giant Exxon Mobil’s profit falls 10 percent.” OMG, say it ain’t so! Except when you read the article you realize that profits are off by 10% from this time last year when Exxon Mobile’s profits for third quarter 2006 was “was the second-largest ever recorded by a publicly traded U.S. company.” Not bad, being 10% off that record and be at $9.41 BILLION in profits.

Must be a bitch to live in this "half empty" world like mack.

Mark or Matt
If you guys have the ability to put up video clips. Go to GOP.com and look under videos, it is an older one, you will have to dig thru the archives. It is called "Taxman" It is brilliant, funny and if you could post it, we could have a good laugh.

Dasein Libsbane,

Exxon shareholders probably think profits being off by 10% from last year is a bad thing...

"Exxon Mobil said net income declined to $9.41 billion, or $1.70 per share, in the July-September period from $10.49 billion, or $1.77 per share, a year ago."

I agree.

Now mack is concerned for the rich stock holders of Exxon and the fact that they are not enjoying continued record profits.

This guy's hysterical.

The nominal GDP has fallen, you're comparing a rising GDP relative to a falling dollar, and the dollar's falling faster than the GDP is rising. Of course the dollar didn't fall because of any fundamental problem, just a re-evaluation, so I'm not smart enough to make any objective economic evaluations. But I can make subjective ones... looks like the people investing overseas are the ones making the really big money.

looks like the people investing overseas are the ones making the really big money.

Astute observation, Robert. One of the funds I've been in for several years is Oppenheimer's Developing Markets fund (ODMAX) It ended last year at $41.21. It was off it's high of $58.67 today, closing down $1.80 to $56.87 -- still up 38% YTD. Of course, as I mentioned the other day to Bane, I bailed on all three of my international funds a few months ago, still up for the year, but not nearly as "up" as I could have been. Article after article was saying that they'd peaked and were heading South. So much for the experts. There is an old saying, however, in which I put a great deal of faith: no one ever went broke taking a profit.

As usual, neocon and Spook have stolen my thunder.

But I do have one contribution to make. I am as guilty of this as anyone, so I am not pointing fingers, just suggesting that we be a little more careful in our wording.

We keep talking about "tax cuts" when the taxes are not cut, it is the tax RATES that are cut.

No wonder the economically illiterate radical Libs get in such a lather. We keep telling them that TAXES are cut, so of course we can't be right when we turn right around and tell them that tax revenues are rising.

Dey are soooooo confused.......

It does not roll as trippingly off the tongue as "tax cuts" but "tax rate cuts" are really what we are talking about, and if we were to say it often enough even some of our resident radicals might start to catch on.

And mack reminds me of the study done a couple of years ago, in which someone wondered who are happier, conservatives or liberals? No surprise there, the conservatives were overwhelmingly more upbeat, more positive, more optimistic, and had a better outlook on life, while the lefties were more gloomy and pessimistic.

Some Lefties on blogs claimed that they were miserable because of Bush and the Republicans being in power, but it turned out that even in the Clinton years, when there was plenty to moan and groan about, the conservatives were happier, more positive, and more optimistic.

It all comes back to my pet theory, which is that conservatives develop strong personal philosophies over time and then seek out politics which will come the closest to implementing those philosophies, while lefties start from an emotional base and then go looking for a political philosophy which will support and validate it. And it seems that a lot of them are looking for a political movement which will validate their determination to see everything in the worst possible light.

But a housing market HAS to slow down---even importing as many illegals as possible can't keep up with the building boom, and common sense tells us that after a big economic surge we will reach a point where everyone has moved into a better house, has bought a new refrigerator, has acquired a big screen TV, has consumed what he yearned to consume when times were tougher. There is just no possible way that any economic revival can possibly continue,uninterrupted.

And as for that gallon of milk---the question really is, or should be, what is the cost of that gallon of milk today relative to your earnings, as compared to that ratio a decade ago, or whenever you choose to make your comparison?

"Tax cuts work - every time they're tried. Except for all those times when they fail. Tractatus

Can you enlighten us with some examples? Otherwise we'll have to consider this just another leftist meme without any substance and you just another mindless moonbat.

Can you enlighten us with some examples? Otherwise we'll have to consider this just another leftist meme without any substance and you just another mindless moonbat.

It's not my fault you're too lazy to do your own research. This might have too many words for you, but here is the classic article in which Daid Stockman, the man who carried out the Reagan tax cuts you guys worship, admits that it was basically a sham and a failure that lead to massive increases in federal defecit and national debt (gee, why does that sound so familiar?). Or you might read Stockman's book, The Triumph of Politics: Why the Reagan Revolution Failed (gee, politics triumphing over rationality...why does that sound so familiar as well?). Even by its own metrics, supply-side economics doesn't work, regardless of the blatherings of its cultish devotees. Get mad at me all you want--you only seem to be able to scream at the messenger without addressig the message--but it won't change anything.

Mack 55

Chrysler shedding thousands of jobs. Is very bad news for Michigan. Senator Carl Levin is trying to get some armored vehicles that the Marines who tested actually liked better, built here in Michigan. Our state has been hit hard by outsourcing. Detroit is set up for building vehicles. Steel Plants, everything you'd need is right here. You ought to see what you can do to help him bring that work back to where it once was. Here is a Senator that was against the war, but ain't afraid to support the troops.

And yet foreclosures went up 30% in the third quarter.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21551909/

This is a war time economy. It is based on marshmallows and marmalade pies. You pump 1 trillion dollars into buying trucks, planes and equipment needed to build the infrastructure of another country somebody is making some good cash! The hangover will start when the bills come due. It is a classic charge and spend republican economy. Next year Democrats will have to make hard choices in righting the massive debt. It is just so unfair the Republicans leave the economy in such shambles each time they are in charge.

Tax cuts do work every time they are tried.

The so-called "massive increases in the defecit and debt" are not a result of the tax cuts. The tax cuts brought higher tax revenues.

THE PROBLEM IS RECORD INCREASES IN SPENDING!!!

You "neocoms" or "neosocs", or basically liberals, do not see the evidence in front of you. The latest increases in the deficit, under Bush, was not a result of tax cuts. Tax revenues are way up. However, RECORD INCREASES IN SPENDING, by both libs and republicans are the problem.

You are aware that there also have been record increases in the size of government, homeland security, education, entitlement programs.

I hear the libs complaining about the defecit, but I see them doing nothing but proposing more tax increases and more government programs. Cutting the military budgets and "ending the war in Iraq" will not solve the problem without limiting government growth, WHICH THEY HAVE NO INTENTION OF DOING!!!!!!!

You neocoms or neosocs propose more of the same, never real solutions.

No, jane, this isn't a war time economy. Read my post from above, the government is the smallest contributor to the GDP. Carter handed Reagan the worst economy in US history, Clinton handed Bush a recession, corporate scandals, the dot-com bust and a budget deficit cloked in Social Security fund surplus. Just how you imagine that Republican administrations "leave the economy in such shambles" defies logic.

Tract, Stockmen, the indicted felon, presented massive evidence that the so-called "Reagan tax cuts" would produce a 5% increase in the economy, something Reagan never claimed. It turned out he was wrong and the economy grew at 2.2% after the Carter debacle. Let’s not forget Stockman’s other claims to fame: in 1985 before Congress he stated about our military, "When push comes to shove, they'll give up on security before they'll give up on retirement."

Was he lying then or is he lying now? Stockman’s self-promoting pontifications have been discredited by every major economist since 1985. The only one’s that cite his ramblings are liberals trying to score points with the uninformed.

Either way, the economy began growing with the tax revaluation in 1981, and continues to this day.

Mack,
I hold Exxon Mobile Stock (XOM), and it's 30% valued over last year at this time, believe me, stockholders aren't complaining about the dividends!

Dasein Libsbane ,
If you're happy XOM dropped $5.00 per share in the past 5 days then I'm happy for you.

A Whole Five Dollars??? OMG, What Will I do? I guess I'll have to console myself with the dividend check and take the family to dinner at Ruth's Chris Steak House; Lobster for everyone!