But Mark,

The "liberals" have stated over and over that the death of Iraqis is not their concern. The bloodbath that a withdrawal would cause is inevitable and keeping with history. Not our concern at all.

So why would they care that the surge is reducing deaths there? They just don't care. How could that possibly help them defeat the Republicans and the hated Bush?

Kahn - I think you're right. It's disgusting, but true.

Iraq Deaths Drop by 50% - Awesome! :)

I believe the most significant victory in Iraq we've had was when the Iraqi Sunnis turned on Al-Qaeda. That was a HUGE VICTORY! The Sunnis witnessed and experienced Al-Qaeda for themselves
and said, "Forget this! We choose the Americans!"

Mark, Kahn, Freedom1: You wait; the kooks will accuse the Pentagon/Bush/Rove/Rummy/Rice/Dog Catcher of coming up with a new method of counting deaths. Mark my words.

I think the continued success is due to the modified ROE granted Petraeus. Sadly, it's probably only a matter of time before Conyers and Waxass demand investigations...

Agreed, Hombre.

The "liberals" have stated over and over that the death of Iraqis is not their concern.

Posted by: Kahn at October 2, 2007 12:56 AM

I would argue that the opposite is true, Kahn. The war supporters have shown no remorse at all over the horrendous number of wounded, killed and displaced Iraqi citizens the American invasion and occupation has brought about.

When confronted with the numbers, the usual shrugged answer is that war is hell and sh** happens.

Yes, Kahn, I believe you are a little confused as to who is more concerned with the Bush instigated bloodbath that has taken place in Iraq.

You, and others who support this debacle, have no compunction in having it continue indefinitely; just as long as you can say you have been victorious.

In the final months of WWII, no Jews were arrested, or killed in the city of Berlin.
How could this be? Was it because the city was ringed with Allied forces? Was it because the Germans knew defeat was imminent and so they decided to play nice with the remaining Jews? Doubtful. My guess is that there were no Jews left in Berlin to arrest or kill near the end of the war.

With 2 million Iraqis displaced, and another 2 million that fled the country, and 250,000 killed, my guess is if they’re going to get killed, they already have been.

The war supporters have shown no remorse at all over the horrendous number of wounded, killed and displaced Iraqi citizens the American invasion and occupation has brought about.

No, CO, we don't lack remorse. We place the blame for these deaths where most of it belongs - on the terrorists who deliberately kill civilians. Moreover, their actions are not in the least bit justified or even "brought about" by anything done by Bush, his administration, or our military, but are the deliberate choice of the terrorists. We also believe that an abrupt withdrawal will make things worse.

I would even submit that the willingness among the anti-war crowd to blame these deaths on Bush and/or our military is one of the things which motivates these monsters. (Bush's predecessor was more right than he realized when he said, "words have consequences.") It motivates them because they realize that some vocal Americans are using their attacks on civilians as a reason to call for withdrawal. Keep killing civilians, they probably realize, and the American people and goverment will remove their troops, and then we can really have our way.

One reason we believe the anti-war crowd considers the deaths of Iraqis not to be their concern is that they don't seem to be worried about what would happen if we were to do what they want, and just up and leave. They seem oblivious to what has happened in the past, when America has cut and run. In Lebanon in 1983, the U.S. cut and run, the violence continued. The country is now a terrorist haven. In Somalia in 1993, the U.S. cut and run, and the violence between warlords and their factions continued, and the country fell into chaos.

In Vietnam, we withdrew our forces and negotiated a peace, in 1973 or earlier. But those did not end the war. The North Vietnamese violated the peace treaty, and ended the war on their terms in 1975. Millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians died in the aftermath.

In spite of three historical examples of violence and death after the U.S. cuts and runs, the anti-war crowd wants us to make the same mistake in Iraq. Seeing this, we war-supporters can make sense of this in two ways. Either the anti-war crowd thinks that our withdrawal will somehow cause the violent factions to abandon their violence, or they just don't care about what happens or who dies after we leave, as long as they can have what they seem to want - a defeated U.S. military and a defeated President Bush.

In the final months of WWII, no Jews were arrested, or killed in the city of Berlin.
How could this be?

The Jews had already been taken to the concentration camps and held there, where huge numbers were killed, well before the Soviet army closed on Berlin. The Iraqis being targeted but can be anyone anywhere in the country. Different war, different situations, different course of action by the enemy. But your example is good in one sense, Mack55. Both the Nazis and the Islamists in Iraq (and elsewhere) hate the Jews with a murderous passion. Both deserve our most ardent opposition.

Canadian,

The mindless Democrats have shown no remorse at all over the horrendous number of wounded, killed and displaced Iraqi citizens Democrats (Liberals) have caused by their incessant anti-American hate filled propaganda... no remorse at all for the aid, comfort, and encouragement their words, actions, and deeds have provided terrorists and our enemies like Iran... no remorse at all that their words, actions, and deeds have emboldened the terrorists to kill more American soldiers and Iraqi families, given terrorists reason to continue their fight, extended the war, increased the cost, and provided terrorists with hope and the belief they will be victorious -- a victory Democrats have promised terrorists through their rhetoric and continuing efforts to cut the funding and support for our troops!

Democrats -- Invested in America's defeat and surrender!

AAR

CO:"I would argue that the opposite is true, Kahn. The war supporters have shown no remorse at all over the horrendous number of wounded,..."

Blah..blah...blah...BS!

CO and his ilk will never understand that in war, death and destruction can be exploited for political gain and in this war...it's been all Dems. If you believe that our silence is a lack of compassion, you're dead wrong CO, conversely our silence is respect for those that would give their lives for America....period!

Why are republicans calling this revelation a success, when 2 million Iraqis have been displaced and many neighborhoods shattered and divided into ethnic lines?

This just in: Violence in Afghanistan is at its worst since 2001.

yeah...the surge is working.

"Both the Nazis and the Islamists in Iraq (and elsewhere) hate the Jews with a murderous passion. Both deserve our most ardent opposition." - bigfoot

The Jews already have the most powerful army in the middle east. They are very capable of taking care of themselves without U.S. welfare. I'm sick of the US having to constantly defend a regime that refuses to face challenges alone and by itself.

Hey Bovary- Violence in Afghanistan is up because we are killing the Taliban by the hundreds jackass.

Ha! Liberals making comparisons to World War 2!!!

When we do that you jump all over us.

If we pull out there will be a bloodbath. There will be a major regional war. And oil supplies will dry up sending the world into a depression - yea, not a recession - a depression.

THIS is your plan.

How about helping us figure out how to win instead of being defeatist assholes all the time.

bovary,

RE: " Violence in Afghanistan is at its worst since 2001."

Of course it is -- THANKS to DEMOCRATS!!!

Haven't you been reading my posts telling you that was coming?

Terrorists in Afghanistan have seen how well terrorists in Iraq have used violence, killing, bombings, and terror tactics to help Democrats in their efforts to defeat America! They have seen how Democrats very effectively use the daily media reports of those terror attacks, violence, and deaths to undermine the will of the American people... how Democrats have used the deaths of American soldiers for their own political gain... how the terrorists in Iraq "voted" for Democrats -- casting their ballots in the form of the bodies of American soldiers and Iraqi families!

Yes, terrorists in Afghanistan have seen from the Democrats very words, actions, and deeds in Iraq exactly how they can best help Democrats defeat America in Afghanistan as well... by providing the daily news headlines and fodder Democrats want, need, and use against America... against America's military... and to secure VICTORY FOR TERRORISTS!

AAR

You, and others who support this debacle, have no compunction in having it continue indefinitely; just as long as you can say you have been victorious.

That would also include a majority of your Democratic Senators who also supported this effort.

And this just in: Barack and Hillary will not commit to having troops withdrawn by 2013.

So, CO, mack55, who are you going to vote for? You certainly couldn't vote for either Hillary or Barack considering what they have said about the war. Both of you are without a candidate, right?

The Sunnis witnessed and experienced Al-Qaeda for themselves
and said, "Forget this! We choose the Americans

Why do republicans jump on small bits of news and twist it to their advantage? Apparently, you forgot to mention that the Sunnis have renewed their offensive against the shiites, unless that is exactly what you're cheering for? Is it? It's only a matter of time before those same (Saudi Arabian) backed sunnis turn those guns back at the americans, like they did in Afghanistan. Keep cheering.

Neocon,
America can see the results of Dubya’s leadership in the war in Iraq.
America understands that someone has to clean it up.
America understands that the troops will have to stay in Iraq for a while, and that’s okay just as long as Bush isn’t managing things anymore.
With Dubya gone, things will start to get better.
Oh yeah, and I’m still voting for Clinton. She’ll be great.
After she’s elected I wouldn’t want to be a right-wing blog jockey or radio host though, (I hear those IRS audits can be a bitch.)

mack55,

So you're kind of dropping that "pull out of Iraq" squeal now huh? I thought you supported the troops?

Neocon,
Show me a post of mine where I said “pull out of Iraq.”
I’ve have said that the Republicans want the troops to stay in Iraq so no one can accuse them of loosing a war, and that the Democrats want the troops to stay in Iraq so they can use the unpopular war to win in 2008. Oh, I’ve also said that Bush is a moron, and that he’s mismanaged Iraq from the get-go, and got a thousand of my fellow Marines killed for no good reason. Nope, Dubya got us in there - and there ain’t no leaving now.

After she’s elected I wouldn’t want to be a right-wing blog jockey or radio host though, (I hear those IRS audits can be a bitch.)

So you endorse a President using illegally using the IRS to silence critics? Does that mean you also endorse the use of warrentless electronic surveillance against the enemies of this country?

Mark I might be opposed to your views but the least you could do is show my posts ... (Ed Note: we would, but you've accused us of censoring you when you are the person who won't register to have your comments immediately appear...you don't register, then it can be a whole day before your comments show up).

Okay then, my bad...will try again

Retired Spook,
The GOP fought long and hard to give President Bush authorization to use warrentless electronic surveillance. Didn’t you realize that the next president would inherit those powers? Didn’t you realize that with no oversight we will never know who is listening to whom? Don’t you realize that absolute power corrupts absolutely?

and got a thousand of my fellow Marines killed for no good reason.

You only have one fellow "Marine," mack5.5IQ--Lard-*$$ Murtha. You're a "phony Marine..."

Hombre Blanco Muy Gay!!!

Él era la señora Pia, ahora él es hombre blanco muy gay. LMAO! Muy el freak.

mack55, so you don't deny that you support a president using the IRS (something the Clintons did often during Bill's 2 terms) to silence critics, but you condemn that same president using his constitutionally granted power to eavesdrop on those people and organizations whose goal is to destroy this country?

mack55,

Is that your age or your IQ?

FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act), is the law that authorizes the intercept of foreign communications. It was passed in 1978, when Jimma Carter was president. It was not a recent law passed through the efforts of the GOP to allow President Bush to conduct warrantless wiretaps.

Yes, the next president will also have use of the law to intercept communications between terrorists. Since the intercept program is reviewed every three months by the Department of Justice, members of Congress are briefed on the program, and the FISA Court reviews it as well, I can live with Hillary, or Rudy, or Fred having the ability to detect terrorist plots. I have faith in the system keeping a rein on its use.