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October 31, 2007
FEC Complaint Filed Against Hillary Clinton for President Committee

How much longer are we going to let the crimes of Democrats, particularly those of the Clinton Machine, go unpunished? As the co-authors of a book about the rampant corruption in the Democratic Party, Mark and I know very well that Democrats are rarely held accountable when they break the law.

In response to recent stories from the Los Angeles Times and the New York Post, we are filing an FEC Complaint (posted below) against the Hillary Clinton for President Committee. These stories revealed evidence of illegal immigrants and straw donors donating to Hillary's campaign, donors who felt pressured to give money for fear of retribution, and a significant number of poor donors who gave $1,000 or $2,300 to Hillary's campaign -- when they obviously weren't in the financial position to do so.

Hillary's campaign has dismissed the story as "derogatory to Chinese-Americans," so clearly they have zero interest in ridding themselves of illegal contributions.

With the complaint filed, Hillary's campaign has 15 days to respond.

Here is the text of our complaint:

October 31, 2007

Office of General Counsel
Federal Election Commission
999 E Street, NW
Washington, DC 20463
 

Dear Counsel:

We write to file a complaint against the Hillary Clinton for President Committee for violation of Federal Election Law under the Commission's jurisdiction.

It is clear from recent news accounts that the campaign and its donors and fundraisers have violated 2 USC 441f, the provision of law that prohibits campaign contributions in the name of another, and that some donors may have violated 2 USC 441e which prohibits donations by foreign nationals without permanent resident status.   

A recent Los Angeles Times article, [available here], indicates that several reported donors to the Clinton campaign are non-existent persons, illegal immigrants, or were reimbursed by others for contributions. The article documents several instances in which reported donors could not be found, even by those living at the same address reported in the campaign’s FEC filing:

The Times examined the cases of more than 150 donors who provided checks to Clinton after fundraising events geared to the Chinese community. One-third of those donors could not be found using property, telephone or business records. Most have not registered to vote, according to public records. […]

Of 74 residents of New York's Chinatown, Flushing, the Bronx or Brooklyn that The Times called or visited, only 24 could be reached for comment.

[…]

The tenement at 44 Henry St. was listed in Clinton's campaign reports as the home of Shu Fang Li, who reportedly gave $1,000. […]

A tenant living in the apartment listed as Li's address said through a translator that she had not heard of him, although she had lived there for the last 10 years.

Census figures for 2000 show the median family income for the area was less than $21,000. About 45% of the population was living below the poverty line, more than double the city average.

In the busy heart of East Broadway, beneath the Manhattan Bridge, is a building that is listed as the home of Sang Cheung Lee, also reported to have given $1,000. Trash was piled in the dimly lighted entrance hall. Neighbors said they knew of no one with Lee's name there; they knocked on one another's doors in a futile effort to find him.

Salespeople at a store on Canal Street were similarly baffled when asked about Shih Kan Chang, listed as working there and having given $1,000. The store sells purses, jewelry and novelty Buddha statues. Employees said they had not heard of Chang.

In yet another case, a “donor” denied ever giving money to the campaign:
Another listed donor, Yi Min Liu, said he did not make the $1,000 contribution in April that was reported in his name. He said he attended a banquet for Clinton but did not give her money.
The article also demonstrates that the Clinton campaign received large campaign contributions from illegal immigrants barred from contributing under Federal law:
One New York man who said he enthusiastically donated $2,500 to Clinton doesn't appear to be eligible to do so under federal election law. He said he came to the United States from China about two years ago and didn't have a green card.
These incidents are far from isolated occurrences at the fringes of the Clinton campaign. Campaigns routinely stay in close contact with their most prolific fundraisers and encourage them to raise even more money from associates. Community organizers even organized a fundraising event for Hillary Clinton that netted $380,000, implying substantial knowledge of and involvement in procuring these donations on the campaign’s part.

As Clinton campaign bundlers, these community leaders also placed improper pressure on those who could least afford to donate:

Clinton has enlisted the aid of Chinese neighborhood associations, especially those representing recent immigrants from Fujian province. The organizations, at least one of which is a descendant of Chinatown criminal enterprises that engaged in gambling and human trafficking, exert enormous influence over immigrants. The associations help them with everything from protection against crime to obtaining green cards.

Many of Clinton's Chinatown donors said they had contributed because leaders in neighborhood associations told them to. In some cases, donors said they felt pressure to give.

[…]

"Everybody was making a donation, so I did too," [He Duan Zheng] said. "Otherwise I would lose face."

The New York Post conducted a further examination of the Hillary Clinton for President Committee's campaign finance data.  Their story is available here.

The New York Post story indicates that several unlikely donors, including cooks and dishwashers, made $1,000 contributions to the campaign.

A search of Chinatown donors yesterday by The Post found several bogus addresses and some contributions that raised eyebrows.

Shin K. Cheng is listed twice in federal records for giving $1,000 donations to Clinton's campaign on April 17.

But the address recorded on campaign reports is a clinic for sexually transmitted diseases, hemorrhoids and skin disease.

No one at the address knew of a Shin K. Cheng.

Another donation came from a Shih Kan Chang on Canal Street. But the address listed is a shop that sells knock-off watches and other pirated goods. The sales clerk there did not know the donor.

The investigation by the New York Post also found evidence of illegal “straw donations.”
Hsiao Yen Wang, a cook in Chinatown, is listed as giving Clinton $1,000 on April 13. Contacted yesterday, she told The Post she had written a check.

But it was on behalf of a man named David Guo, president of the Fujian American Cuisine Council, and Wang told The Post that Guo had repaid her for the $1,000 contribution.

In addition to the aforementioned evidence, it is worth noting that the Hillary Clinton for President Committee has clearly decided to take no action to remedy these violations. According to the New York Post, “The Clinton campaign dismissed the L.A. Times story as derogatory to Chinese-Americans.”

Accordingly, the Clinton campaign's disinterest in and failure to remedy these violations along with the potential scope of the abuse indicates that that the Commission should investigate and take action against those responsible for violation of the law.

The information in this complaint is based upon information and belief, and not on our personal knowledge.

Respectfully,

Matthew Margolis & Mark Noonan

Posted by Matt Margolis at 09:24 AM | Comments (53) | Track



Comments

Don't forget the whole Peter Paul mess. Fingers crossed she is convicted of a felony on that one. I suggest visiting this site for more information and a great video detailing how high the pile of dirt goes. Screw you to the insane libs in advance.

http://www.peterfpaul.com/

Posted by: jbiccum [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 30, 2007 10:36 PM


Hillary and Bill already own all of the records for scandal from their first stint in office- the infamous Clinton Culture of Corruption Years:


* Number close to the Clinton machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 44
* Number of convictions during his administration: 33
* Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 61
* Number of imprisonments: 14
* Number of presidential impeachments: 1
* Number of independent counsel investigations: 7
* Number of congressional witnesses pleading the 5th Amendment: 72
* Number of witnesses fleeing the country to avoid testifying: 17
* Number of foreign witnesses who have declined interviews by investigative bodies: 19

The Clinton machine now holds the record for the administration with:

* The most number of convictions and guilty pleas
* The most number of cabinet members to come under criminal investigation
* The most number of witnesses to flee the country or refuse to testify
* The most number of key witnesses to die suddenly
* The greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions
* The greatest amount of illegal campaign contributions

Posted by: Eric T [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 30, 2007 11:06 PM


Thank you it's about time someone attempts to legally call attention to this never ending problem. I called Waxmans office over this very thing.

Posted by: Judy Coble at October 30, 2007 11:11 PM


Judy,

Just part of Matt and I living out the message of our book - there is corruption in politics, but we're not going to get a handle on it until BOTH SIDES are held accountable. The arrogance on display in those two news stories is what made the FEC complaint a necessity - Hillary clearly feels she is above the law.

Posted by: Mark Noonan [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 30, 2007 11:40 PM


How are we ever going to heal this political divide created by Bush/Cheney/Rove/Halliburton/Blackwater, if all you neocons ever engage in is the politics of smear and fear? This is the most corrupt administration ever; who cares if hardly anyone in BushCo has been indicted/convicted? They're corrupt, I tell ya--corrupt!!!

///sarcasm off///

Posted by: Neocon4life!!! [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 05:36 AM


Neocon4life,

Sounds like a call 4 bipartisnship. The country really does needs to work together to pass some bills. With Alberto Gonzales pushed out and the dems blocking new a Attorney General that would be able to procescute Clinton for breaking the Law. It would be a good time to pass bills, but as time goes by that stuff gets brushed under the rug. The Debate last night was calling for Impeachment of Our President. I'm just getting this feeling of impending doom, like the republican party is going to get decimated if they don't come out punching back soon.

Posted by: Eric T [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 07:00 AM


Deleted - Off Topic

Posted by: mack55 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 08:32 AM


mack 55

What do you think of war bonds now? You could put a picture of the planes slamming into the White House, Pentagon, and Trade Center. Put them at 6% so the market will prefer them over the T-bill. Sell them to the public in $100 dollar increments instead of the $10,000 increment T-bill. So the American people buy them. Take that money pay back the Chinese.Then we could make the interest. They would make good retirement investments, save for kids college, christmas presents.

Posted by: Eric T [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 08:53 AM


Deleted - off topic

(Ed. Note: Please address the substance of the accusations)

Posted by: Rana Quijotesca [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 09:32 AM


House later, nothing from the left but two off topic comments...wassamatter, lefties, haven't got your instructions on what to say, yet?

Posted by: Mark Noonan [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 10:07 AM


OT but too relevant not too mention. A note to our resident liberals. ISSUES, optimism, and conviction when elections and your current Democratic candidates possess none of them. The following is a very astute observation of last nights debacle (oh excuse me, debate)

Democrats are primarily talking about negatives, not positives. They have criticized Iran, they have criticized Iraq, they have criticized the system, they have criticized each other's experience or lack of experience," he said. "There has only been limited discussion about the vision and world view that Democrats would offer in the White House."

Posted by: neocon [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 10:21 AM


I meant "win" not "when", wow, it's early.

Posted by: neocon [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 10:23 AM


Mark stated in his complaint:
“The information in this complaint is based upon information and belief, and not on our personal knowledge.”

You didn’t have personal knowledge of anyone, or anything. You didn’t investigate anyone, or anything. You didn’t research anyone, or anything. You didn’t contribute anything to anyone.
It was just plain silly for you guys to read a newspaper article and then file a complaint based on the content of the article. It is kind of sad to see you bragging about it on your blog.

Posted by: mack55 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 10:29 AM


Mack:

Maybe. But isn't that what you're doing?

Posted by: Epphan at October 31, 2007 10:56 AM


Thank you mack for clearly demonstrating the lefts desire to end corruption:

"you don't know anything Mark so just shut up"

I have just one question mack. If, according to liberals, the average American is one paycheck away from being homeless, unable to afford health insurance and losing their jobs overseas, how are they able to contribute thousands of dollars to Hillary? And in turn, shouldn't she not accept that money from people who are unable to afford it?

Posted by: neocon [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 11:02 AM


Eric T sez:
"Hillary and Bill already own all of the records for scandal from their first stint in office- the infamous Clinton Culture of Corruption Years:"

I'll take Clinton scandal over Bush success any day!

The Clinton’s left office in 2001 the World Trade Center was still standing.
The Clinton’s left office in 2001 there had been no attack on American soil in 60 years.
The Clinton’s left office with a 65% approval rating, the highest rating of any President.
The Clinton’s left office with the longest economic boom in US history.
The Clinton’s reduced federal government spending to its lowest level in 30 years.
The Clinton’s left the legacy of a huge and growing budget surplus.
The Clinton’s helped the US economy expand by 50% in real terms.
The Clinton’s cut the unemployment rate by half, to a 40-year-low.
The Clinton’s cut welfare rolls by 50%.
The Clinton’s put an additional 100,000 police on the streets.
The Clinton’s saw crime drop every year they were in office to its lowest level in 26 years.

Posted by: mack55 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 11:36 AM


mack55:
"The Clinton’s left office in 2001 the World Trade Center was still standing.
The Clinton’s left office in 2001 there had been no attack on American soil in 60 years."

The WTC was attacked in 93 sir. They (Islamists Jihadists, otherwise know as Terrorists) thought by blowing it up from the Underground Garage it would bring the building down. I do believe Clinton was on watch and this did happen on American Soil.
I do believe you are wrong on your first two talking points, I will let others dismantle the rest.

E. Marsalis

Posted by: E. Marsalis at October 31, 2007 11:47 AM


BTW, I believe it was a Republican Congress while Clinton was in Office that achieved the numbers you credit Clinton with.
If this was a just World, Newt would be the front runner for POTUS.

Posted by: E. Marsalis at October 31, 2007 11:51 AM


Neocon asks:
"I have just one question mack. If, according to liberals, the average American is one paycheck away from being homeless, unable to afford health insurance and losing their jobs overseas, how are they able to contribute thousands of dollars to Hillary? And in turn, shouldn't she not accept that money from people who are unable to afford it?"

Sounds like the people are desperate for change, and desperate people will do almost anything to survive. Should Senator Clinton accept their donations? Yes, I think she should. It would be a slap in the face not to accept them. If these contributors are willing to make a sacrifice today for a better tomorrow then I say God bless them.

Posted by: mack55 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 11:51 AM


The Clinton’s left office in 2001 there had been no attack on American soil in 60 years.

Did you forget about the 1993 WTC attack? Or how about domestic terrorism and the Murrah Federal Building? Or how about government terrorism and Waco and Elian?


The Clinton’s left the legacy of a huge and growing budget surplus.


That was actually the Republicans Congress doing with balanced budget mandate of "Contract with America"

The Clinton’s cut welfare rolls by 50%.


Again, "Contract with America"

Have you seen the recent economic indicators and the progress of the surge, and the recent LA gubernatorial election results? I'm not sure the change you think Americans want favors your agenda.

Mack, you're good for comic relief, but not so much with honesty and clarity.


Posted by: neocon [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 12:00 PM


I hate to sound like a negative Nabob, but Hillary will probably walk away unscathed.

History shows us the only way to make a case stick against a powerful politician is if people from both parties back the charges. It is fortunate for democrat politicians that republicans have a higher moral expectations from there politicians. When a republican like Duke Cunningham commits a crime republicans and democrats alike are quick to bring him down. (rightly so)

When democrats commit felonies or misdemeanors The democrats rally around him so it is only people of the opposite party condemning him. This makes it look like a politically motivated witch hunt. So the perpetrator invariably walks.

Also Hillary’s husband has packed the bench around the country with lefty drone judges whom also are loathe to hurt Hillary. For proof of this see www.peterfpaul.com

She’ll scream Vast rightwing conspiracy to cover up her vast Chinese communist conspiracy and her minion will follow her to hell.

Posted by: Greg at October 31, 2007 12:17 PM


Neocon asks:
"Have you seen the progress of the surge?"

Neocon,
Looks like a bunch of neocon State Department employees don't share your assessment of the "Surge." LMAO.

WASHINGTON - Several hundred U.S. diplomats vented anger and frustration Wednesday about the State Department's decision to force foreign service officers to take jobs in Iraq, with some likening it to a "potential death sentence."
In a contentious hour-long "town hall meeting" called to explain the step, these workers peppered the official who signed the order with often hostile complaints about the largest diplomatic call-up since Vietnam. Announced last week, it will require some diplomats - under threat of dismissal — to serve at the embassy in Baghdad and in so-called Provincial Reconstruction Teams in outlying provinces.
Many expressed serious concern about the ethics of sending diplomats against their will to serve in a war zone, where the embassy staff is largely confined to the so-called "Green Zone," and the safety outside the area is uncertain while a review of the department's use of private security contractors to protect its staff is under way.
"Incoming is coming in every day, rockets are hitting the Green Zone," said Jack Crotty, a senior foreign service officer who once worked as a political adviser with NATO forces.

Posted by: mack55 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 01:57 PM


neocon: Did you forget about the 1993 WTC attack? Or how about domestic terrorism and the Murrah Federal Building? Or how about government terrorism and Waco and Elian?

What's your argument? Are you blaming all of these things on islamofascists, or reasons why we should bomb Iran or something? What's the tie-in?

Posted by: Ricorun [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 02:06 PM


Great Job and good luck with this suit. As commenter's have alluded to, the Peter Paul scandal as well as the other well documented longtime Clinton abuses in the fundraising arena have gone unanswered for for far too long.

Both Clinton's should be imprisoned for their habitual lawbreaking throughout their entire political careers and if justice prevails that day is soon to finally arrive.

Posted by: Chicago Ray at October 31, 2007 02:15 PM


Kudos to you Matt and Mark, you are the toast of the conservative blogging world today. Every blog I read has a link to your post.

Posted by: jbiccum [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 02:23 PM


Regarding the Alfred P. Murrah Building:
Timothy McVeigh was a neocon – enough said.

Regarding Waco:
Even though David Koresh and the Branch Davidians (well armed christian conservatives)shot a and killed a bunch of ATF and FBI agents, neocons still defend them for some reason. Why is that neocons? Why do you guys hate America and our federal agents so much?

Regarding the 1993 WTC bombing:
In October 1995, the militant Islamist and blind cleric Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, was sentenced to life imprisonment for masterminding the bombing. In 1998, Ramzi Yousef was convicted of "seditious conspiracy" to bomb the towers. In all, ten militant Islamist conspirators were convicted for their part in the bombing, each receiving prison sentences of at least 240 years.

Within a two year period, the Clintons caught the bad guys responsible for the 1993 attack on the WTC.
Question is: Where is Osama bin Laden? Wasn’t Dubya going to get him “Dead or Alive?” over six years ago?

Posted by: mack55 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 02:39 PM


Mack55 claimed: "Looks like a bunch of neocon State Department employees don't share your assessment of the "Surge." LMAO."
In case you have not been following the standards of hiring/firing in the "big gobmnt", and judging by your comments you have not, labeling these "diplomats" as neocons is pretty ignorant. (think "Alberto" and "firing") My experiences tell me these "diplomats" are the same as the "military members" who joined for the paycheck and benefits and when expected to perform their primary mission, hide their fear and cowardice and poopie drawers with public indignation.

Posted by: logdogsmith [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 02:47 PM


Do you have to ask what the tie in is Rico?

Our friend mack stated:

The Clinton’s left office in 2001 there had been no attack on American soil in 60 years.


I was just proving him wrong. He also seems to think it's ok for Federal agents to kill innocent American women and children in pursuit of someone on a small weapons charge. Mack also seems to think the there was nothing more behind the first WTC attack than the blind cleric. He apparently operated completely by himself along with a few others, and mack conveniently overlooks the extensive AQ network that was actually behind that attack and funding the blind cleric that went unchecked throughout the 90's and led to 9/11.


Then logdog brings his form of insanity to the table by reciting the anxiety of a bunch desk jockeys that are scheduled to go to Iraq as evidence that the surge is not working despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Liberals certainly live in their own alternate universe.

Posted by: neocon [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 03:02 PM


John Edwards made some great points last night at the debate.

Posted by: Eric T [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 03:16 PM


Neocon says:
"Mack also seems to think the there was nothing more behind the first WTC attack than the blind cleric."

Really Neocon? You think there there was something else behind the 1993 WTC bombing? Like What? Like who?

I'll ask you again. Where is Osama bin Laden?
Results neocon, results. You must demand results from your President.

Posted by: mack55 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 03:17 PM


Why do you have a 105 posts about media bias (basically saying the media can't be trusted) and then use what you read in the media as the basis to file a complaint?

What gives?

Posted by: Aitch [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 03:19 PM


If Hillary (not Rodham) Clinton were a Republican it is certain this would be news. But she is a Liberal, and therefore above the law.

Thank you for your time.

Posted by: The Outlander at October 31, 2007 03:20 PM


"...the extensive AQ network that was actually behind that attack and funding the blind cleric that went unchecked throughout the 90's and led to 9/11."

That's right, and remind me again who controlled Congress?

Posted by: InDaVa [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 03:56 PM


neocon: Do you have to ask what the tie in is Rico?

Yes, I do. You accused mack of a scatter-shot, ill-conceived comment, and then you promptly engaged in the same. And somehow you feel capable of claiming you are somehow morally or intellectually superior? That to me is what's wrong with the whole debate. Allow me to point out a couple of examples...

neocon: I was just proving him wrong. He also seems to think it's ok for Federal agents to kill innocent American women and children in pursuit of someone on a small weapons charge.

I wouldn't hazard a guess as to what mack was thinking (although he did glaringly miss the 93 attack). My question was directed at you. I still don't understand the tie-in. And I don't understand your subsequent response even more. Small weapons charge? In what case was that either the relevant or the only charge? Also, in what instance could Federal agents be accused of directly killing innocent American women or children? The only high profile incident I can think of where something close happened is Waco. But that wasn't just a small weapons charge. That was a homicide charge (among others). And it's not like they could have just gone up to the front door and asked Koresh to give himself up and face trial. They tried that early on -- therein the homicide charge. And who started the fire -- can you say with absolute certainty?

As for Elian... I'm assuming you're talking about Elian Gonzalez. An illegal immigrant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you a proponent of returning illegal immigrants back to their country of origin? Especially when they're minors, and their living guardian doesn't even live here in the US? Then again, maybe it doesn't matter if you're properly politically connected? What good it law and order if you demand it only when it's politically convenient? I ask that very pregnantly.

Posted by: Ricorun [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 04:05 PM


Logdog,
The Department of State top brass are neocons:
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice - Neocon
Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte – Neocon
Chief of Staff Brian F. Gunderson – Neocon
Under Secretary R Burns - Neocon
Under Secretary for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs, Karen Hughes - Huge neocon. (quitting)

I would assume that to keep their jobs, all of the State Department underlings had to be neocons, or were pretending to be neocons. And I bet they all (were) BIG supporters of the war in Iraq.

Did you read the article? These people were actually crying. They asked: "Who will take care of our children if we get killed?" They said the State Department's decision to force them to take jobs in Iraq, was a "potential death sentence."

Gee, I wonder who these people will vote for in 2008?

Posted by: mack55 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 04:09 PM


AQ was behind the first and the second WTC attacks. Just FYI.

Wee Osama is in pakistan, most likely, having gone there after the Sudan offered him the Bill Clinton and Clinton didn't think he was that big of a threat. Hmmmm......

Also, Let's talk results:

Afghanistan has a democratically elected government
Iraq has a democratically elected government
Libya is no longer pursuing WMD
North Korea has abandoned their nuclear ambitions
Saddam is dead
His sons are dead
Zarqawi is dead
India is a new strong ally
The US economy is strong
Pro-American leaders have recently been elected in France, Germany, Britain & Austrailia
The UN now mandates that the US lead the Iraq effort.
The Iraqi government is an ally and has asked us to continue to lead them.

I do expect results and by golly we got 'em.

Posted by: neocon at October 31, 2007 04:10 PM


AQ was behind the first and the second WTC attacks. Just FYI.

Well Osama is in Pakistan, most likely, having gone there after the Sudan offered him the Bill Clinton and Clinton didn't think he was that big of a threat. Hmmmm......

Also, Let's talk results:

Afghanistan has a democratically elected government
Iraq has a democratically elected government
Libya is no longer pursuing WMD
North Korea has abandoned their nuclear ambitions
Saddam is dead
His sons are dead
Zarqawi is dead
India is a new strong ally
The US economy is strong
Pro-American leaders have recently been elected in France, Germany, Britain & Austrailia
The UN now mandates that the US lead the Iraq effort.
The Iraqi government is an ally and has asked us to continue to lead them.

I do expect results and by golly we got 'em.

Posted by: neocon [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 04:12 PM


And somehow you feel capable of claiming you are somehow morally or intellectually superior?


I am both. Don't ever forget it.

Posted by: neocon [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 04:14 PM


Um... I said when responding to neocon, "in what instance could Federal agents be accused of directly killing innocent American women or children?" I neglected to consider Ruby Ridge among the high profile incidents. In fact, Ruby Ridge was the most glaringly obvious example.

Posted by: Ricorun [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 04:15 PM


That's right, and remind me again who controlled Congress?

The President controls foreign policy. Just FYI.

Posted by: neocon [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 04:16 PM


neocon: I am both. Don't ever forget it.

Okay, I'll consider it with the seriousness it deserves. Lol!

Posted by: Ricorun [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 04:18 PM


THANK YOU!

Posted by: semby at October 31, 2007 04:32 PM


Thank you Rico,

Of course that was tongue in cheek, but your assumption deserved such.

I am tired of debating liberals on the same talking points over and over and over again. Hence the lack of patience.

Do you not think that there may have been a different approach towards the compound at Waco, then the one employed by Mr. Reno and President Clinton? I mean c'mon, liberals think they're are the smartest people on the planet, and all you could come up with is armored tanks?

And Elian did have a guardian here, his mother!

Posted by: neocon [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 04:43 PM


"The President controls foreign policy. Just FYI."

Also, correct. Remind me again who is in the White House right now controlling our foreign policy,which is a disaster I might add.

Posted by: InDaVa at October 31, 2007 04:54 PM


But InDaVa,

You were ready to blame the Republican Congress for AQ going unchecked throughout the 90's. You've changed your tune just a bit after I pointed out your error.

However, our foreign policy is just fine as evidenced by the list of results, that mack asked for and I postedin my 4:12pm post.

Please review.

Posted by: neocon [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 05:06 PM


neocon: Do you not think that there may have been a different approach towards the compound at Waco, then the one employed by Mr. Reno and President Clinton? I mean c'mon, liberals think they're are the smartest people on the planet, and all you could come up with is armored tanks?

Your suggestions at the time would have been... what? Remind yourself... once the fire started, what did the "grown-ups" in the Branch Davidian compound do? My recollection is they still kept shooting. Do you have a different recollection? And if my recollection is correct, even if hundreds of water-tenders were available, would you have allowed them anywhere close?

And Elian did have a guardian here, his mother!

Really? You need to review your notes.

Posted by: Ricorun [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 05:10 PM


....once the fire started...


By that time, it was over anyway. Koresh use to make frequent trips into town, that would have been one way to apprehend him. Another would have been to wait him out, but Mr. Reno chose to enter the compound with armored tanks, and that's the best you could come up with. Smart liberals indeed.

Was it Elians aunt? One of his relatives was caring for him, but Mr. Reno chose to break in in the middle of the night to forcefully grab a toddler to send back to Cuba. Smart liberals indeed.

Posted by: neocon [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 05:15 PM


Neocon sez:

"Well Osama is in Pakistan, most likely,"

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

LMAO

Posted by: mack55 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 05:39 PM


Because of the corrupt and incompetent Bush Administration from Brownie to Rumsfield, Hilliary will walk away with Presidency as the candidate of change and there is nothing you wingnuts can do about it.

Posted by: Plainjane at October 31, 2007 05:44 PM


Deleted - off topic.

(Ed. Note: when the cat's away, the mice will play...but the cat is back, and we'll now insist upon discussing the issue at hand...the very serious accusations of criminality on the part of Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign)

Posted by: mack55 [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 05:51 PM


"I would assume that to keep their jobs, all of the State Department underlings had to be neocons, or were pretending to be neocons. And I bet they all (were) BIG supporters of the war in Iraq." Mak

You continue to surprise and amaze with your complete lack of understanding of the environment, business, economics, politics, finance, international relations, and now government employment policies.

In each of the departments there are political appointments as well as career employees. The tenure of political appointee is dependent upon political considerations. The career federal employees are subject to an entirely different criteria, which gives them virtual life time employment.

Its actually one of the problems with our government. Firing a federal employee is extremely difficult. That's why, despite campaign promises, no President has been able to reduce the size of the government.


Additionally your assertion that the state department must be filled with nocons is absolutely laughable. Most federal career employees are leftists. All you have to do is look at the percentage of dems and republicans in DC and surrounding areas.

Its a great idea to send a few of these desk jockeys to Iraq. Maybe we'll finally rid ourselves of some leftist leakers, and drones.

Posted by: phnx [TypeKey Profile Page] at October 31, 2007 06:32 PM


Thank you for doing filing this complaint. I'm hopeful that the FEC's glacial speed will not impede Hillary's ambition until after she wins her party's nomination; but before the general election.

OT: Hats off to President Bush for his speech today in which he admonished the Democrats on their uber-responsiveness to MoveOn.org and Code Pink-O over the requests for funding of our troops DURING A WAR.

Posted by: Never_Surrender at November 1, 2007 03:27 PM


For a lame duck, President Bush is certainly running rings around the Dems.

Posted by: phnx [TypeKey Profile Page] at November 1, 2007 10:55 PM