I listened to alot of the testimony today. Though I think we need to draw down troops Petreaus came across very well, he remained focused on his testimony, not taking the bait of talking about the larger GWOT. He was persuasive and acquitted himself very well. Moveon.org was stupid to impugn this man's integrity. Crocker on the other hand had a more difficult time, and that is because he has less tangible proof of improvement.

What was critical and telling was when Petreaus being asked by Warner if we are safer now because of our presence in Iraq Petreaus said he did not know. Clearly, this is not what W wanted to hear.

i have listened to most of the report and will read the transcript again. Everyone should read it of course. Its funny though - do you not see that this also applies to the news YOU don't want to hear?
The GAO report, the national intelligence estimate, and recent polls of Iraqi's. You should really head your own advice and read all the information you can on this - and not dismiss things out of hand because you think they are just repeating what the president wants to hear or because the "bbc is anti-american". Its remarkable - you can be so reasonable as long as you are only talking about the things you want to hear - but you refuse to head your own advice when it is something you don't like...

Its remarkable - you can be so reasonable as long as you are only talking about the things you want to hear - but you refuse to head your own advice when it is something you don't like...

You should really head your own advice...
but you refuse to head your own advice

Could someone please tell me how to "head" advice? I've seen Europeans "head" soccer balls, but I've never seen anyone "head" advice.

Does anybody take libtardT seriously here?

libtardT, your idols in Congress totally dismissed Petraeus' report, and that was before he even gave it. Does that make you proud? Your Donkaroaches were despicable, yesterday and today; they treated this fine man like crap. So take your GAO "report," your BBC, and your stupid poll, and stick 'em all up yer arse. You are a complete moron who's a waste of oxygen.

of course that should be heed...doh

but leo - i listened to the report and i am reading the transcript right now! Thats the difference between you and I. I look at the evidence first and then form my opinion - unlike you

I have not only read the transcript--I have a kid who's "been there, done that, and got the T-shirt."

Excuse me if I would give more weight to the opinions of one of the world's foremost authorities on insurgent warfare over the likes of Harry Reid.

Just by listening to the Donkaroaches in Congress belittle this man, you can tell who's in MoveOn's pocket. How many of these people have denounced the ad? It's a well-known fact that Reid-tard and Piglosi have a weekly conference call with the MoveOn folks.

So these despicable Donkaroaches accomplished one thing by belittling the General--they've appeased their MoveOn base. However, who have they alienated? No rational person would support the likes of Boxer, Feingold, Durbin, or Kennedy.

I'll bet all of our troll pukes adore 'em...

Kiefer-

Your name calling is really childish. Did you find it interesting that Petreaus was not sure if the US effort in Iraq is making us safer against Al Qaeda?

But the National Intelligence Estimate , the Government Accountability Office and General Jones have some experience under their belt - its not Reid who compiled the reports. You would know that if you bothered to read them ...

So Petraeus and the Republicans believe if they have just one more year all will be well in Iraq. This means at least 1000 of our young men and women will not live to see the inaguration of a new President. With debt borrowing to finance one more year of policing a civil war, China will have a further strangle hold on our economy. And Bin Laden laughs from the center of the war on terror.

LiberalT

"of course that should be heed...doh"

"the difference between you and I"

Check with keefer, but shouldn't that be "duh" and "between you and me"?

sleepy,

Did you find it interesting that Petreaus was not sure if the US effort in Iraq is making us safer against Al Qaeda?

That's a "known unknown". Without knowing the future, neither Petreaus nor anyone else would have the information or knowledge to answer that question with a definite and absolute yes or no, without opening themselves up for a barrage of subsequent interrogations, speculation, alternate scenarios, attacks, and verbal abuse from their (his) opponents and enemies (Democrats)!

Would we be safer in the future if Democrats succeed in forcing America to show weakness in dealing with Al-Qadea, withdrawing from Iraq in a cowardly retreat, handing Al-Qaeda their longed for victory and turning Iraq over to them for their base of operation for financing, training, and planning future attacks? Would such a retreat assist and strengthen the United States in dealing with our other enemies and threats to our security, or would such a retreat further embolden our enemies as Democrats have done with Iran?

Would we be safer 10 years from now if Saddam or one of his sons were still running Iraq?

Unfortunately, even history can not answer those questions because of the infinite number of alternative scenarios and possibilities!

AAR

The GAO report address's just the Iraqi givernments inability to meet the benchmarks which was addressed by Ambassador Crocker. While national legislation is yet to be put into place, results are being seen on the ground re: many of the benchmark goals.

Secondly, the NIE report is very much in line with Gen P's assessment. That the surge has been very effective in reducing the sectarian violence, finding and elminating weapons caches and putting AQ on the defensive.

And General Jones has criticized the Iraqi police very harshly and probably rightly so, but gives good grades to the Iraqi Army. Pretty much, again in line with General P's assessment. And secondly, where is General Jones....oh that's right, stateside.

Isn't it amazing how everyone on the left has the their talking points in line. The NIE, the GAO and General Jones. I might remind you liberalT, General Jones was not unanimously appointed to head up this effort, Gen P was. Maybe we should listen to him.

Ya think?

neocon - go read the reports. They even provide a table to explicitly and simply show the differences between the evaluation. The are not "inline" and they do not agree. Moore lies from people who don't even bother to read the report. Let me guess you got an executive "summary" from some fox news pundit. Go read it and then lets talk

"What was critical and telling was when Petreaus being asked by Warner if we are safer now because of our presence in Iraq Petreaus said he did not know." sleepygenes

Only a moron would expect an answer from a question which is impossible to answer.

How about the facts...NO ATTACKS ON THE US IN 6 YEARS.

That is what we do know.

I have read the reports my dear. And they are exactly as I protrayed them, The GAO address's bench marks, the NIE talks mainly of sectarian violence and Jones mainly speaks of the Iraqi police, all of which was addressed more accurately by Gen P and Amb Crocker. Two gentleman that have lived and breathed the situation in Iraq first hand.

There remain many challenges in Iraq, as well know, and hardly need some ill-informed agenda-driven liberal like yourself to harp on. I will go with the assessment of two men who have more knowledge and intelligence between them then your entire family.

Isn't Crossing Jordan on?

either you haven't read them or you didn't understand them specifically:

(1) they differ on key benchmarks:
- the establishment of a constituional review committee, setting up provisional elections, establishing legislation on amnesty, reducing sectarian violence, allocating money for reconstruction projects, etc etc..

(2) they also specifically differ on what conclusions - the GAO and the national intelligence estimate draw much different conclusions about what were to happen if the US were to leave. the Petraeus report believes that almost the entire region would be drawn into a blood bath - while the GAO and national intelligence estimate are much more gaurded in their predictions..

as always- you are a sexist and insulting - but most importantly a complete and total liar.

(1) they differ on key benchmarks:

Amb Crocker addressed the governments inability to meet the bench marks. What he also addressed was what was happening on the GROUND in relation to the benchmarks, which were significant.

(2) they also specifically differ on what conclusions

Again, Gen P did not indicate it would be a "bloodbath", you are an agenda-driven lying bitch.

I have zero respect for you, I consider you a complete waste of flesh and would bitch slap you into next week if we ever met. Is there any part of that you didn't understand, because I can dumb that down for you.

Neocon,

LiberalT will never agree with you, he doesn't dare. By agreeing with you he would have to admit that the surge is working. Now there are problems, but ones that continuing operations can address and make better, even helping the Iraqi government develop some balls with regards to the militias.

more insults and lies... sad

lies.....no.

insults......plentiful.

It's just a shame you weren't aborted.

Now, now, Neocon, we are all God's children. Even the lib idiots who don't believe. I may think there are times when abortion should be allowed - but that is only because present medical technology does not allow for the removal of an unwanted fetus to be placed in an artificial womb or the womb of some one who does want to have a child. When that technology is attained, then abortion should be banned.

Of course, that means idiots like LibT would still get born.

So quick to anger you are. Wishing something you abhor (abortion) on someone you have a policy disagreement with. You should take solace in the fact that I'm sure liberalT is the bigger person and has already forgiven you for the vulgarities.

Your name calling is really childish. Did you find it interesting that Petreaus was not sure if the US effort in Iraq is making us safer against Al Qaeda?

Well, comatosegene, I was annointed, long ago, as B4B "attack dog." I must live up to my title, and most of you morons make it easy to do so. As for Petraeus' initial comment, he later amended it. Look it up, chump.

Check with keefer, but shouldn't that be "duh" and "between you and me"?

Good catch, AAR; I missed one. I could excuse it by saying that libtardT makes so many writing errors, that it's hard to catch 'em all, but I am an "attack dog" of integrity. I just plain missed it. Thanks for your help.

It should be "between you and me;" however, the "doh" is probably due to the fact that libtardT's two heroes are Homer Simpson and Al Franken. He used to call Mark a "lying liar" all the time.

neocon, you and I share the same "love" for libtardT. I believe she was either a failed abortion, or a miscarriage who somehow survived. Either way, she's a waste of human flesh and oxygen, and is best left alone. That is to say, "Ignore the beyotch, and maybe she'll go away..."

"So quick to anger you are." AMG

Yoda?? Is that you???

Bbbwwwahahahahahaha!

You should take solace in the fact that I'm sure liberalT is the bigger person and has already forgiven you for the vulgarities. - AMG

How kind of you to offer your shallow advice and how pretentious of you to assume what I abhor. I actually advocate abortion in extreme cases and liberalT (or of whom I will now refer to as a stacked pile of shit or SPS) is one of the most indoctrinated, brain washed, agenda-driven, hatred-spewing extreme cases I have ever encountered. So advocating her abortion is actually being kind to the poor helpless dear.

I find it interesting that you describe a debate of factual events on the ground to "policy disagreements" which also demonstrates your dishonesty and agenda driven mindset.

SPS

"attack dog",

I'll leave most of the "attack dog" stuff to you. You are far better and much more entertaining at it than I could ever hope to be.

When it comes to anything about the Simpsons, I'll have to plead intentional "ignorance". I've never even watched a full episode. I've seen more than enough when changing channels or in passing while others were watching, which isn't very often. Considering their popularity -- especially in Britain -- it may be a case of not knowing what I'm missing. I'll have to live with that worry and possibility (kiddin')!

Likewise for Al Franken, Sharpton, or Jackson (and numerous other Liberal nuts); although, in the interest of learning about one's enemy, I have watched and heard more of them than I ever wanted.

I consider myself above average in grammar and spelling, but nowhere near the top. When I proof my own work (and to a lesser extend others), I tend to see and read what "should" be there and what I "intended" to write (like Florida Democrat voters) rather than what is actually there.

I also intentionally use some of my "own" (improper) grammar and punctuation -- especially on the Internet -- for emphasis and to break up and better highlight various words, phrases, and thoughts. And there's always that ongoing battle with those fingers and the computer which intentionally misspell and use "sound-alike" words to make me look bad!

My teachers always told me how important English, writing, and speaking was, but I couldn't see that at the time. Now that I can, most of those brain cells are already "programmed"! I'm now the one telling others they need to learn good English, grammar, writing, and speaking skills and habits... but, for the most part, I might as well be speaking to a younger me!

AAR

neocon,

There are surgical lobotomies, chemical lobotomies, and now, liberal or Liberalism induced lobotomies -- the latter caused by too much liberal indoctrination and brain washing, especially by our public schools, colleges, and universities, but also Democrats (Liberals) aided by the liberal news and entertainment media!

AAR

of course i forgive him - its like getting angry at a dog because he bites you. You can get angry for a moment - but he is just a dog and doesn't know any better. There is no reason to hate the dog.

Look figure 5 of the GAO report spells out the differences for example. Yes - of course they admitted that there were "difficulties" but to say that they are in line with each other is just a joke. They disagree on many key issues.

Further - Iraqi's themselves do not believe that the surge has done any help. I know I know its a "poll" from the so called "anti-american" institute the BBC. Well - if you are just going to believe polls which agree with you and then come up with some ridiculous reason to ignore the ones you don't like - I don't know what to say. If you have any serious scientific objections to the poll (how the sampling was done, statistics, biases ) then please present it. But just mindless baseless statements wont do

AAR,

All of those are viable solutions. Notice the "shell" game liberals play with reports. When one is contrary to their agenda, they quickly discredit and point to another. The fact that they would call a decorated General a "liar", speaks volumes of their desperation.

Yes - of course they admitted that there were "difficulties" but to say that they are in line with each other is just a joke. They disagree on many key issues. - SPS

Stacked Pile....this will be a good exercise for you. Instead of merely "saying" they completely disagree I suggest you prove that line by line.

Take the GAO account of unachieved political bench marks and compare them, verbatim, to how Ambassador Crocker related them in his report.

We'll anxiously await.

i pointed you to a friggin table which does a line by line comparison. Still - not enough for you. Look - I am telling you exactly where to go read and you still refuse to. Just never mind - you are hopeless

I asked you to COMPARE the GAO report to Ambassador Crockers account. Not to just translate the GAO report.

Got it? Or do you need me to dumb this down for you?

And just to give you a little heads up, before you further embarrass yourself. The GAO report was submitted Sept. 1 and Crockers report was given Sept. 10. So that would preclude the GAO report from having a "line by line" comparison as you suggested.

GAO report on Iraq????

Great let's sit in an office in Washington and make summary findings about a country on the other side of the world.

Yes, the GAO is right Iraq government hasn't been successful with meeting benchmarks. GAO determination of sucess = 100% completeness.

Oh and they never mention it took 11 years during a time of peace for some dumbass country to come up with something called the US constitution.

and only another 150+ years to pass laws against that gave black people the same rights as whites.

Too funny, only anti-war people would expect a country in the middle of a conflict to be able to pass legislation, while their own Democratic supported party has passed - NOTHING

sigh.. Go read the report moron. If you had bothered to do that you would see that the comparison is based on a prereleased version - which in fact hasn't changed. Again - if you had bothered to read to the second page you would have seen this. There is no point in arguing with you if you won't even bother to read the document and just continue to lie about it.

DougH,

Great, great post!!! This is exactly what we've been trying to convey to the brain-dead, moronic-lemming libtardT, and all she wants to do is repeat the same old boring post she started with, trying to convince us that some suits in D.C. are experts, and that some push-poll from the BBC, which is left of Lenin, is the pulse of the Iraqi people.

I've talked to soldiers and Marines recently back from the war zone, and I've heard countless calls from others on talk radio, who've contradicted, to a man/woman, any leftist poll spoon-fed to these morons.

But just mindless baseless statements wont do

If only you'd practice what you preach, and if only you could get your mommy to teach you punctuation...

Perhaps the GAO could do a report on how well the Democrat Congress has performed!

AAR

Perhaps the GAO could do a report on how well the Democrat Congress has performed!

AAR, is Democrat Congress and performed an oxymoron?

If you had bothered to do that you would see that the comparison is based on a prereleased version - which in fact hasn't changed. - SPS

That's interesting. According to Amb. Crocker he made his final assesments for the draft of his report on Sept 7 and 8. In order for the GAO to have a "pre-released" version in time for print on Sept. 1, they would have needed that information no later than Aug. 29.

Secondly:

A draft of the report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO) was leaked to the Washington Post by an official "who feared that its pessimistic conclusions would be watered down" by the Department of Defence and other government agencies prior to the release of the final report, the Post reported on Thursday.

Do ya think there's an agenda? Or is your side just above politics?