Hey!
Actually, yes, I have stopped using a car.

I drive less than ten miles a month now!
There's this thing called public transit,, though of course, bicycles are better, and a lot more fun.

Also, why should we have to sign up for Afghanistan. I don't because it would, in fact, be illegal for me to join the military to fight with them (really). Also, the reason a lot of Dems like to harp on "go fight the war if you believe in it" is that the war was started with lies, perpetuated with lies, and is such a royal fuckup that only you guys believe that it's going well.

So many "success" stories are coming in. Like, the US lost track of 30% of the weapons given to Iraqi forces.

We want out. You guys want in. But you don't seem willing to back up your ideas with action.

We simply think that it's hypocritical for you guys to tell our soldiers that they should be fighting and dying for a cause that's not even clear, causing untold amounts of grief at home, and then to dodge questions on why you won't fight. It's the pottery barn rule: you break it, you buy it. Say you break a lamp. And you were looking at that lamp even though you really didn't need it. Well, you "bought" that lamp. And you have to glue that lamp together again even if it looks terrible and doesn't work right, and you have to stay in the store forever, and the lamp is an exploding lamp.

I mean, you guys always seem to have such great ideas [cough cough] as to what to do with that exploding lamp (stay in the store forever!) (Invite your family in too!) (Make them stay in forever!) I'd think that you guys would want to be more involved so as to implement them. I ccan only assume that this means youu guys think that Bush, cheney, and co are doing a great job fucking up--I mean fixing--this mess. Oh. Right, I already knew that you guys are Bush's lapdogs. But whatever.

But, you know what, I don't think you should have to fight for us. But there are other things you could do. For example, have you cut down our dependency on oil? Or have you been consoling the families of the dead (Donald Rumsfeld used to send letters to the families. But then they found out that the letter sending system was automated, complete with a digi-pen to scrawl Rummy's signature)? Have you voted for representatives that will get body armor for the troops? Have you cut down on your wastage of resources our troops might need? Have you?

Yes/No?

Whatever. You guys never learn.

ThELefTYFoOL

And my response to your counter-argument was that all it showed was that your loathing of "liberals" was greater than your sense of duty to your country. Funny how that never got posted.

I am willing to concede, however, that you and I -- and everyone who posts here -- are in fact, ridiculous. All of us.

Some of us disagreed with the Iraq war and still served in the military, we still need a defensive force. There's nothing wacko about civil service or volunteerism. If you want a society that relieves the suffering of the destitute and you don't want to do it by theft(the democrat way), then people need to volunteer. Just because there is hypocritical people out there that take advantage of our current system dosen't mean that you should just ignore the problems of the world.

Robert, I read your post 3 times trying to decipher what you said (with no luck). Was this a replay to Matt's comment or an off the wall (emotional) response with no real point?

Of course not. And they know in their heart that taxes should be higher, but none do so voluntarily. Especially the lib politicians. And estates should be left to the Feds, but they keep their inherited estates and protect theirs for their heirs. But you should leave your estate, and the libs are here to help you! They like freedom and free speech, as long as they don't have to fight for it, in fact here they don't even want you to fight for it!

Like Al Gore, reduce YOUR carbon footprint. Ted Kennedy wants renewable energy, just not around him. Hollywood libs want socialism, but stay away from THEIR public beach. Michael Moore wants better health care, but don't restrict HIS food intake. They don't want terrorist surveillance, but George, don't forget to connect the dots and why didn't you collect the info?

And people actually vote for these clowns.

"And my response to your counter-argument was that all it showed was that your loathing of "liberals" was greater than your sense of duty to your country."

Martin, if you read his post from last month again you'll see that his point isn't about why he won't go to Iraq, it's proving the stupidity of your argument that just because he or anyone else supports the war that they should to go to Iraq.

Don't twist words.

Sorry, that should read "reply".

DM, my point is that one hypocrisy doesn't justify another.

How is this diffrent than Al Gore saying that I have to reduce my carbon output for his benifit and mine. Or a welfare recipient saying that we need free healthcare for his benifit and mine.

I understand that national security is different, and not every person should join the army, but if all you are is a vocal advocate you're not really any different than the above people.

If you really want to support the Iraq war don't just say something or type something on blogsforbush, DO something, you don't even need to join the service, there's plenty of ways to support troops. Real people are out there paying very disportionately high cost for YOUR security. And if you really care about global warming ride your bike.

For example, have you cut down our dependency on oil?

Yes, I use butter or an air popper...

"Hey!
Actually, yes, I have stopped using a car.

I drive less than ten miles a month now!"

So, which is it?

DM

I read it at last four times and I'm embarrassed for the poor twit.

I think what he's really trying to say is...blah..blah...blahhh!

Does that clear it up for ya...LOL!

keefer: Yes, I use butter or an air popper...

Okay, that to me was the funniest response yet. LMAO!!

I have a gigantic (to me) truck. It's a Chebby Silverado crew cab stubby bed (1500) which I bought in early 2004. On the up-side, I can haul and/or pull just about anything I want it to almost simultaneously (which is to say either an exhibit booth and all the equipment, or several adults, a ridiculous amount of dogs, and either a boat or a house trailer). On the downside, it's ridiculously huge for most purposes around town.

Around town I get to fall back on my honey, who lives across the street and who has a little Scion Ax (or xA, I forget which) that gets like 100 mpg (I'm pretty sure, lol!). Around the neighborhood (and along the beach) we use our bikes, though probably not as much as we could or should.

Additionally, I replaced all the incandescent lights in my house with flourescent ones. But I made that step many years ago. Over the last 12 or so years I just kept transferring them from one dwelling to the next. None of them have burned out, by the way.

Likewise, soon after I moved into my present house (it was supposed to close on 9/11/01, by the way -- very scary) I wrapped my water heater and all the pipes in insulation, as well as all the heating/cooling ductwork. So I can't really say how much of a difference it made. But I did it myself, so it wan't expensive. And it's not exacly rocket science.

About a year later I replaced all the windows and doors with double-paned, low UV replacements. And THAT made a HUGE difference! I can't really say how much it saved me in energy costs, but just experientially, I assume it was considerable. Even now I run the heat or the air conditioning only a few days a year -- and then only a few hours a day.

I had the doors and windows professionally done. And though it's hard to judge how difficult it would have been had I attempted to do it myself, I have to say that it didn't look all that hard. Then again, my honey and I just replaced her garage door ourselves. And if I had it to do over again, I'd have it professionally done. Oh Lordy, that was A LOT harder than it looked! I've replaced individual pieces before -- in fact, most of them at one time or another. So I thought I understood the general concept. But boy, it became obvious that when it comes to garage doors, the whole is much greater than the sum of the parts. Apparently, 2+2=10 in that context, and you'd better be prepared to contribute the remainder in time, sweat, effort, and interpersonal relations, lol! Even now that I've done it, I'm not sure I could do it again. And I don't relish the opportunity to find out, either, lol!

I traded in my Elantra for a Prius. I have also done a lot of the things Rico has done over the years, (replaced doors, incandescent bulbs with flourescent bulbs, etc). I did all these things more to save myself money than any other reason. I guess it just shows my level of commitment to this issue. I will make some changes, but I'm not willing to totally change my lifestyle. On th other hand, I don't go around lecturing other people about global warming.

There are other areas that I am very strongly committed that I have and will do about anything to support.

As for you Matt, obviously, your level of commitment to the Iraq War isn't to the point, where you feel it's necessary to join the military and go fight there, but that's your decision and you are the one that has to live with it.

keefer: Yes, I use butter or an air popper...

I'm ok with that as long as you don't use transfat. LOL

I'm ok with that as long as you don't use transfat.

I avoid transfat when I can, although I think it's a bit nannyfied(?) to outlaw the stuff.

I drive a Corolla, for the gas mileage. I probably waste a lot of energy/water around the house, but not because of the environmental whackos. That's just the way it is, and I'm making an effort to improve...

I do believe it is hyprocritical to adamently support the Iraq War and be willing to send others loved ones over to fight and die for this cause, but not be willing to do the same. If you are of military age and physically able to serve your country, and truly believes in the cause, you should also be willing to put yourself out there for the cause. You talk the talk - but that is where it ends. There is a huge difference between the environmental issues and fighting a bloody war. No one dies from failing to conserve energy - but not so with going to Iraq. So far this month, 19 soldiers have died in Iraq, and this is only the 8th day of the month. The sacrifice made by those in the military and their families is great, and I have read so many times where you refer to "our magnificant men and women in the military", but it is pretty obvious that it where it ends for you. As the saying goes, talk is cheap.
For those who do want to do more than talk and are unable to serve, there is a wonderful organization called the Intreprid Fallen Heros Fund. Here is a little information about the organization - and they gladly accept donations to continue their work.

In January 2007, the Fund completed construction of a $40 million world-class state-of-the-art physical rehabilitation center at Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas. The “Center for the Intrepid” serves military personnel who have been catastrophically disabled in operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, and veterans severely injured in other operations and in the normal performance of their duties. The 60,000 square foot Center provides ample space and facilities for the rehabilitation needs of the patients and their caregivers. It includes state-of-the-art physical rehabilitation equipment and extensive indoor and outdoor facilities. The Center is co-located with two 21-room Fisher Houses that house the families of patients (www.fisherhouse.org).

By the way, all funds were privately raised - no assistance from our government in building this state of the art rehab center for our wounded soldiers.

”Real people are out there paying very disportionately high cost for YOUR security.”

Are you just figuring this out? The price for our collective security is great indeed. This is why it’s critical for politicians to stop playing politics with the lives of the men and women on the battle field. Let them do their job and give them full support. Instead, the Liberal anti-war group and the politicians who pander to them create a much more dangerous environment to an already highly dangerous situation for the US military and coalition forces to do their job.

” And if you really care about global warming ride your bike.”

I love riding my bike when I have time, but I don’t believe for 1 second it will do anything to “improve” this condition called “global warming” that is so vaguely understood to begin with. Oh, I’m sure there are a whole bunch of people who could spew a whole bunch of statistics and make all kinds of projections based on weather and climate.

However, I’ve come to distrust a lot of what is dictated as “science”. Not because I don’t believe in scientific studies and theories, quite the contrary. It’s because I’ve seen too many times where people (usually someone in a position of authority or perceived authority) with personal agendas, purposefully misrepresent what those studies really indicate. Those individuals crave power and control regardless of the ramifications to everyone else. With their greed and cunningness they are able to deftly cloak an evil or a detriment to be perceived as a good. Whether it’s a time phased lie that’s been built with more lies –or- all of the sudden they sound the horns and throw scary scenarios around with bogus props and short time frames saying “we must act now” the results are unfortunately much the same. All too sad… the masses follow, believing they’re doing ‘the right thing”.

Robert, if I understand your general premises correctly, I agree. We should collectively take part in the solutions for problems that affect us all. The questions that often differentiate the political parties are: 1.) What are the real problems and 2.) How do we best fix those problems?

I’ve watched many times where President Bush presented his ideas on problems and potential solutions. What I’ve seen from critics has done nothing to advance a solution. They either: 1.) Blast him with every negative word they could think of JUST because it Bush offered it, 2.) They totally ignore what he said as if there was no problem, 3.) They totally change the subject and rant about something different (as though it’s his problem) or 4.) They pander to the polls almost exclusively for the purpose of getting reelected.

I do not believe Bush, his administration and advisors are always right. But I do believe they are intelligent people and their ideas and positions deserve intelligently debate. That however doesn’t seem to sit well with the party not sitting in the seat of the POTUS. I believe they see it as giving in to the opposition and weakening their chances of regaining the Presidency. What a foolish, deadly stance to take.

Navydad, thanks for the laugh. I think Robert means well even if he has a difficult time expressing himself.

sunny, what the hell does your post got to do with the thread?

keefer, start from the top (Mark's post) and carefull read what he said. Then, work your way down through all of the posts, and MAYBE you will be able to comprehend the jist of the posts. good luck.

Okay, sunny-side-up, I did, and still, the thread was not intended for what you posted. Comprehend this...

keefer, it’s getting worse.

Some posters not only criticizing near everything Matt or Mark writes about (most times with little or no comprehension of what was said), they babble meaninglessly while stuck on idiocy and hatred.

There ain't no shortage till the water or oil stops coming outa the hose...LOL!

Sorry for the drive by...got lots of work ahead of me this week.

DM my point was more that if you really think that something ought to be done, and really believe in it, just advocating government action isn't really a moral position.

If you care about the poor, so you vote to steal a rich mans money and give it to a poor person, that's not a really altruistic action. If you support what you beleive is a defensive war so long as other pay the main price, don't consider that your charity.

Like I said national defense is slightly different, but it's just the attitude that "I'll just let the government fix it, and if I benifit and don't pay, that that's a good thing", that kind of bothers me. The government dosen't actually create anything, everything it spends is taken from the labors of others. When you vote republican or democrat, you don't actually create anything. If you want to help people or defend people, you do this through hard work, wether it be your voluntary hard work, or the unvoluntarily taxed work of others. I personally find one of those options far more moral.

You're just trying to defend this by saying that Bush's programs of re-distribution of wealth and benifits is somehow better.

Now obviously I'm not defending democrats, they are just as guilty if not more. I'm just trying to counter some hypocrisy.