Ah yes.... the immigrant bogeyman...

Ain't gonna happen.

Why? Because of all those whealthy Republican contributaors who don't want to lose the cheap labor.

Some may talk about the issue, but no-one will ever do anything meaningful about it.

What the US nedds is a campaign finance reform and an elections reform. As long as
1) the president is not elected directly by popular vote, with every vote having the same weight and
2) the candidates' campaigns can be financed by lobbyists and corporations

presidential candidates won't have any incentive to actually represent the will of the people, nor to represent every state equally.

Let's see our GOP congressmen propose this legislation. The Dems will definitely oppose it and it can be a wedge issue in the elections.

We need to make the dems run on what they REALLY believe.

We should already have put a stop to this law breaking by these cities.

Not only cut the funds, but remove those running and governing them and elect new, pro-American members!

Any repeat offenders should be arrested and jailed along with the criminals they harbor!

AAR

AAR

Sieg Heil!!! Long live Pro-Americans, death to the dissenters!!

Sieg Heil!!! Long live Pro-Americans, death to the dissenters!!

CO,

Since you seem to support the rights of dissenters, would you be willing to do something about your country's suppression of dissenting speech about homosexuality, in view of the fact that anyone who anyone in Canada who criticizes homosexuals or their behavior, or even cites Bible verses (without even quoting them) about homosexuality, can be arrested and fined?

And by the way, we "Pro-Americans" really don't want to execute dissenters, we would just like people who come into this country, whether visiting or wishing to immigrate, to do so in a matter that obeys our laws.

anyone who anyone in Canada who criticizes homosexuals or their behavior, or even cites Bible verses (without even quoting them) about homosexuality, can be arrested and fined?

Posted by: Bigfoot at August 20, 2007 12:40 PM

Yes, and here's a little tidbit which should send your blood pressure sky-rocketing:-

CBC News
Liberal MP Scott Brison was married in Nova Scotia Saturday, becoming the first federal politician to marry a same-sex partner since gay marriage became legal in Canada more than two years ago.

Maxime St. Pierre and the member of Parliament for Kings-Hants exchanged vows at a church in Cheverie, the Nova Scotia community where Brison grew up. The wedding was to have taken place outside, but heavy rain caused the ceremony to be moved to a small United church up the road.

Scott Brison publicly acknowledged he is gay in 2002.
(Canadian Press) A number of dignitaries, including Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion, former New Brunswick premier Frank McKenna and former prime ministers Paul Martin and Joe Clark, were among the guests.

"Everyone involved felt like they were part of a history-making event," McKenna said. "It seemed like a validation of a long process."

Dion said he hoped his presence at the wedding would reinforce the right of same-sex couples to marry.

Many of the 200 or so residents of Cheverie, on the province's western shoreline in the Annapolis Valley, say they don't understand the fuss and are playing down the significance of the wedding.

"To each their own," said Pat Eldridge of nearby Canning. "Everyone's entitled to their own opinions and own way of life. He's not hurting us. If they're in love and want to be together, then that's awesome. Love is hard to find."

CO

I take it by your Sig Hiel commnets that you are all for eliminating the border between the US and Canada, and eliminating any laws restricing our access to your country.

Open borders...what a great idea. The next thing we'll demand is access to all of your social programs, as well as a vote. Without these legal protections Canada will soon be absorbed and you will loose your unique identity. But this is apparently OK with you.

Actually, I see the wisdom in your foolishness. Absorption of Canada will go a long way in solving our dependence on foreign sources of oil.

How is it that the US is the only country in the world that is condemned for efforts to protect its borders and enforce its laws???

Simple answers to complex questions certainly do have a lot of political appeal. And I think this one is a winner for the GOP -- at least until the police agencies weigh in on the matter. Then again, their dissent is probably containable. But assuming such a cut-off of funds is actually enforced, the fall-out won't be.

Then again, that's not likely to happen, because those municipalities that have claimed themselves to be sanctuaries will probably stop claiming that -- at least explicitly. Little else is likely to happen. And it won't happen because trying to make it happen will be a law enforcement nightmare. Sanctuary cities are not sanctuary cities simply out of compassion, but in response to realities on the ground.

That's the problem with simple answers to complex questions: they usually do more harm than good. They're a good campaign technique, though.

CO,

Why should that get our blood boiling? The actions of idiots in the service of fools is something to bring out a sense of pity, not anger.

Open borders...what a great idea. The next thing we'll demand is access to all of your social programs, as well as a vote.

Posted by: phnx at August 20, 2007 01:29 PM

Y'all are welcome, y'hear. If you can embrace and live with our socialistic and ungodly ways, come on up. Just be sure to leave your kick-ass diplomacy at home.

Open borders...what a great idea. The next thing we'll demand is access to all of your social programs, as well as a vote.

Posted by: phnx at August 20, 2007 01:29 PM

Phnx-

Many Americans already cross the border into Canada to commit fraud on that nation's health care system. They have to do this because of America's reluctance to enact a humane and comprehensive national health care system. They cross into Canada everyday and either pose as a Canadian or the spouse of a Canadian to get medical treatment that they can't afford here in America.

Fred Barnes has an interesting article on line at The Weekly Standard. He says basically, that due to some harsh rhetoric on the right in regards to illegals Republicans are giving latinos to the dems for a generation or more. It is an interesting article.

Once again Zero, you prove to be the liar of the year here at B4B.

Fifty percent of the Canadian hospital administrators said the average waiting time for a 65-year-old man requiring a routine hip replacement was more than six months....six months Zero! Additionally, according to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development, in 2001, 63 percent of Americans reported a waiting time of one month or less for elective surgery, compared to 37 percent of Canadians.
Also, Circulation: Journal of the American Heart Association reported that Canadian heart attack patients run a 17 percent greater risk of dying than their U.S. counterparts.

Any American that thinks he/she would be better off under Canadian medicine is simply put, a moron.

What a-hole are you pulling your figures from anyway Zero?

Zero,
Perhaps you can cite this; I've found nothing to that effect. Conversely, Canadian health care isn't free it's paid by taxes. Therefore, these Americans of which you speak are committing tax fraud.

Now, in Canada it's easier to see a family physican; but for a specialist you wait months; in my case I was given "permission" to receive treatment in the US after exhusting the Canadian Health Care System; shortage of doctors you know. So it really wouldn't make sense to cross the border, commit a crime to get the kind of treatment you get at your local urgent care.

I also wonder if Canada is such an inviting place, why are more Canadians moving to the US than Americans moving to Canada; having lived there it really isn't a mystery to me. Beautiful country; backward socialist government. But, they're coming around.

french student, your TypeKey name is a joke, no?

"whealthy?" "contributaors?" "no-one?" "nedds?"

What're you studying, gibberish? "New English?"

And you want the major cities in the U.S. to control electoral politics? Sure you do, because most U.S. cities are liberal bastions.

Both parties get money from corporations, lobbyists, and special interests. The process is fair.

We have campaign finance reform--the McCain/Feingold disaster. It abridges free speech.

Sanctuary laws were intended to provide sanctuary to refugees from tyrannical regimes, not illegal aliens. The laws need to be revamped to reflect their true purpose, and violators should be punished. I live in MD, a big sanctuary state. Our governor, Martin O'Malley, made Baltimore a sanctuary city while he was mayor. Our state is infested with illegals, and they need to be dealt with.

Disclaimer: By stating "they need to be dealt with," I was in no way, shape, or form threatening to deal with them myself. I am a peace-lovin' redneck who loves my God, my wife, my daughter, my guns, my dogs, and my cat. I love my country the way it is; if I want to speak Spanish to communicate, I'll move to Spain...

"Many MExICANs already cross the border into the US (Canada) to commit fraud on that nation's health care system. They have to do this because of Mexico's reluctance to enact a humane and comprehensive national health care system. They cross into US everyday and either pose as a illegals, to get medical treatment that they can't afford in MExico." paraphrased from ZERO

CO and the Zero have given us the solution to our illegal immigration problem. Don't deport them SOUTH of the border, DEPORT THEM NORTH OF THE BORDER!!!!

What a wonderful solution...thanks guys../you have such warm compassionate hearts. By doubling your population with new "immigrants" who don't have any skills and can't speak your language you can prove your compassion to all the world.

Navydad,

One of the dirty little secrets about socialized medicine is that the long delays are built into the system with the full knowledge and expectation that some of the beneficiaries of the plan will die before they ever get the treatment.

That's LIBERAL compassion.

"Disenchanted Americans flood immigration website

CBC News
Canada is starting to look like a pretty good place to live for thousands of Americans who are unhappy about George W. Bush winning the presidential election.

Canada's official immigration website is receiving a record number of visits since Bush won a second term, and most of the hits are from the U.S.

Within hours of Bush's acceptance speech six times more Americans than usual surfed the site."

I know, I know, these disenchanted Americans are dirty liberal leftists, who the followers of Bush want to get rid of anyway. And, as a consequence of having Bush as president, the number of Canadians wanting to live in the U.S.A. has dropped. I know, I know, the followers of Bush don't want those dirty liberal leftist Canucks in their Jesus Land, so good riddance.

Rathaven

I've never understood why the U.S., having cutting-edge medicine and the best & brightest doctors in the world, can place so low when compared to other Western countries who offer universal health care. And why do so many of your citizens go bankrupt paying outrageous costs for hospital procedures. I do realize that the American health care industry is a profit-making business, and the almighty dollar rules supreme, but is that anyway to treat your citizenry?

We only want good Canadians in our country, and those are already here...

CO,

Do you advocate breaking Canadian laws too, or just American laws?

Perhaps you believe Liberals have the right to decide which laws they will obey!

It is good news to hear that more American Liberals are scurrying to Canada. Please do all you can to encourage those anti-American Liberals to make Canada their new home. Promise them free Canadian healthcare or whatever it takes, but whatever you do, don't tell them they may die waiting in line for that healthcare!

We want Pro-Americans in American... not a bunch of bleeding heart wimps!

Which CO is posting today? Or is that which personality?

Perhaps Canadian Organization would be more appropriate!

AAR

Nothing to do with sanctuary cities, but Zero and CO...

The Salt Lake Tribune, Aug 10, 2007:

Most Canadians scoff at portrayal of their country as a health-care paradise...

"...saving money is more important than saving lives."

"...not just limited access to drugs that hastens the deaths of the ill and the elderly. Diminished access to physicians, surgeries, and other procedures harm ordinary Canadians ... rationing is necessary for the Canadian government to keep costs down."

"...average wait in Canada between a referral from a primary care doctor to treatment by a specialist was around nine weeks in 1993, but now it takes over four months. ...almost double what doctors consider clinically reasonable.

"...over 800,000 Canadians are currently on waiting lists for surgery and other necessary treatments. Many Canadians can't even find a doctor - about 10 percent are currently seeking a primary care physician. Canada now ranks 24th out of 28 countries in the number of doctors per thousand people, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. When the government took over the health-care system in the early '70s, Canada ranked second."

"...Over the last decade, about 11 percent of physicians trained in Canadian medical schools have moved to America. ... they can't practice the type of medicine they're trained for due to budget restrictions set by bureaucrats."

"...under Canadian healthcare, everyone is ... equally miserable."

"...Madame Chief Justice Beverly McLaughlin ... Canadian Supreme Court decision of June 2005, 'Access to a waiting list, is not access to health care.'"

AAR

Why should that get our blood boiling?

Because a guy married another guy! And it's been going on for two whole years! And society has yet to be plunged into horrible despair as you've often predicted it would! Canada disproves all your stupid rhetoric about gay marriage. That must hurt.

Again some conservative ostraidges here are calling me a "liar". So here's some more truth for our fine feathered friends.

I'm not here to debate the need for a national healthcare system for the US. It's obvious we need one but that's for another discussion. This is about Americans crossing a border to use another nation's programs to compensate for what their nation doesn't or will not provide. Much like the Mexicans who come to the US to take advantage of what we provide we do a very similar thing to our neighbor to our north. One difference is most Mexicans actually work here.

Americans Filching Free Health Care in Canada

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9F0CE7D8143AF933A15751C1A965958260

Zero,

Published: December 20, 1993... (Check the date of the article -- not the date of the search.)

It's 2007. Canadians are coming to America now for their healthcare... those who haven't died while waiting their turn for socialized treatment!

And those "Americans" traveling to Canada, they are probably illegal aliens with false documents crossing to Canada for free healthcare after running up a huge "free bill" here!

CBS NEWS, March 20, 2005, Associated Press:

TORONTO: A letter from the Moncton Hospital to a New Brunswick heart patient in need of an electrocardiogram said the appointment would be in three months. It added: "If the person named on this computer-generated letter is deceased, please accept our sincere apologies."

The average Canadian family pays about 48 percent of its income in taxes each year, partly to fund the health care system. Rates vary from province to province, but Ontario, the most populous, spends roughly 40 percent of every tax dollar on health care, according to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation.

The system is going broke, says the federation, which campaigns for tax reform and private enterprise in health care.

It calculates that at present rates, Ontario will be spending 85 percent of its budget on health care by 2035. "We can't afford a state monopoly on health care anymore," says Tasha Kheiriddin, Ontario director of the federation. "We have to examine private alternatives as well."

AAR

AAR-
American immigration to Canada is at an all time high.
Canadians on average live 2 years longer than Americans. In fact on the list of countries and life expectancy we rank #44. Canada is ranked #13 and "old Europe" and the UK with their "socialized medicine”, they beat us out in that department as well.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_lif_exp_at_bir_tot_pop-life-expectancy-birth-total-population

Pull out any disparate story or anecdotal evidence you want, you can't change that fact. If Canadians believe their Healthcare system is that bad then I'd invite you to conduct a survey in Canada and ask them if they'd like to give up their current healthcare system for an American styled healthcare system. The numbers in favor of the change would be so low it would make George Bush's numbers look almost astronomical by comparison.

"And those "Americans" traveling to Canada, they are probably illegal aliens with false documents crossing to Canada for free healthcare after running up a huge "free bill" here!"''- AAR

I love that word "probably". It's a nice little disclaimer shielding you from actually having to come up with any bona fide evidence to support your claim.

AAR-

Like I said I don't want to get into this debate right now, it's not the topic for it, but I thought this would also enlighten you a little.

http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/briefs/publichealth/hb050202c.htm

Cutting off funds to santuary cities is a MUST,and so is prosecution of Cardinals, Priests and other so called "immigration advocates" who aid Illegal Aliens in breaking our country's laws.

Well Zero, since you've been awarded "Liar of the Year", here at B4B, and since you've finally revealed that you are in fact Blockhead (DL was correct about this freak), with your phonetic spelling (ostraidges?) of words you can barely pronounce, I'll offer the following as a gesture for you to leave:
If you don't believe us, go to http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/ and let Canada tell you themselves.

AAR, navydad

You still haven't addressed the issue of the U.S. low ranking compared to those countries with universal health care.

CO,
You are aware aren't you that when I was given permission than meant I could be treated in the US and could petition the Canadian Health Care for a refund of my medical expenses, right?

Out of more than $10,000 in medical expenses the Canadian system that I paid into for years reimbursed me less than $1,400. At least I didn't die waiting for treatment.

The statistics on infant mortality and life expectancy in the US has been distorted for years; you need to look beyond the general numbers to the types and persons involved. Infant mortality among illegal immigrants to the US is higher than most South American countries. Mortality among Hispanic and those of African descent is higher than Caucasian and Asian owing more to lifestyle and physiology than availability to health insurance. Because the % of these minorities is much ~ much ~ much lower in Canada they don’t face the skewing that these numbers represent. Still, when compared to devastating and life threatening illness and disease, the chances of survival are much ~ much ~ much higher in America than in Canada.

Navy-

"...with your phonetic spelling (ostraidges?) of words you can barely pronounce"

An ostrich is a bird and if I meant a bird I would have spelled it that way. But an ostridge is urban slang and trust me it's not about a bird. You seem to be the perfect specimen to be one.

also

One libertarian think tank does not a country's consensus make.

Again I say, Canadians live longer than Americans. Prove me wrong.

Japan has the longest lifespan and the Healthcare system consists mainly of private clinics and hospitals, paid for via mandatory health insurance.

I'm turning Japanes-ah! I'm turning Japanes-ah!

"Infant mortality among illegal immigrants to the US is higher than most South American countries"

Posted by: Rathaven at August 21, 2007 12:47 PM

But, Rathaven, we've been told that illegal immigrants come to America to take advantage of free medical treatment (best in the world?), and the generous welfare programs. Are you now saying that this is not true? Why there would there be such a high incidence of infant mortality in the number one country in the world is difficult for us to understand.

They are not mutually exclusive. Infant deaths are, as you know the result of many circumstances; including but not limited to heredity and pre-natal care. Infant mortality among Mexican, Guatemalan, Honduran, and other Central American indigenous peoples is high. Illegal immigrants do not place a value pre-natal care and often neglect this until the damage to the fetus is irreversible. Witness the efforts of the California and Arizona public health officials’ attempts to bring in the Mezo-American population for pre and post natal screening; thus far it has been a bust. Far too many in the Southwest only appear for the birth process or when complications force them to seek medical treatment.

And don’t bother with that “in the shadows” crap. Medical treatment including prenatal is required by the State authorities to be given without determination of legal status or ability to pay, illegals know this.

You can’t prevent what you can’t treat.

Also, the life expectancy in Andorra is even higher than Japan, and they require health insurance as well. Those unemployed, and therefore uninsured are offered subsistence care until they can get insurance.

navydad, are you asserting that this asshat, IQoflessthanZero, is actually kblockhead?

IMHO, life expectancy has a lot to do with personal choices and lifestyles, and little to do with nationalized health care. And I'll take my 78 over Canada's 80 anyday--why would I want to freeze my ass off for two additional years in a country infested with kooks?

Navydad,
I don't know about zero, but I'm convinced that liberalT is kblockhead.

Back to the subject; the so-called ""Sanctuary Cities" are, by their very nature deserving to have Federal funds withheld. As Dr. King said; if you feel a law is unjust you are obligated to break the law, but be prepared to pay the consequences. If the consequences are too dear, the law will be changed.

The "Sanctuary Cities" have paid no consequences for breaking the law; they are obligated to follow the immigration policy of the US and the applicable laws until those laws are changed.

keefer,
LOL! They don't actually live longer in Canada; it just takes a few years to figure out if they're frozen or just slow.

Not now Keefer! I went back a few months and this guy makes Kblockhead look like a Rhoades School...my bad. LiberalT is much closer to the real thing and I think DL's analysis of him/her/it was fairly accurate....describe that again for us DL. Something about dangling participles or such.

LOL! DL, the reason Canadians live longer is just a lag in their political malfeasance...LOL! But they'll catch up...ooops too late! Already happened: "Toronto, ON - The continuing failure of Canadian politicians to take Sikh extremism seriously has contributed to a resurgence in the militant movement, which has also been encouraged by the failure to gain convictions in the 1985 Air India bombing, a conference on immigration and terrorism in Toronto was told Friday."

Zero, then why not spell "ostridge" properly? Or are we to assume you don't care if your spelling ability is limited?

Zero,

RE: "American immigration to Canada is at an all time high."

Would that be American "emigration" to Canada?

Do you think that is a problem? I think it's great. They are "probably" Liberals scurrying across the border to partake of Canada's socialism. What ever happened to all of those Liberals who said they were moving to Canada if President Bush won a second term? Head 'em up, move 'em out!

Canadians on average live 2 years longer than Americans? Two year longer under Socialism. That's supposed to be good? Two years longer to "exist" under the Canadian healthcare system, waiting for their "turn in line" to be treated? I don't think so! When the Canadians and Europeans start living forever, or even several years longer, let me know!

Perhaps Canadians don't live longer, but American die sooner. Perhaps Canadians haven't "enjoyed" as many of the fruits of capitalism and the "good" life as Americans. Perhaps they haven't spent as many years getting fat, lazy, and succumbing to the long term effects of chronic diseases like diabetes, heart, and lung disease which show up as they get older. Perhaps there are other reasons!

I'm glad you "love" the word "probably". It's a perfectly good and appropriate word. You "probably" can't tell when a person is being sarcastic or facetious. I will "probably" post some comments tomorrow, but I'm not absolutely sure.

Why would Canadians want to give up their government funded SOCIALIST healthcare system? Why work and pay for something when they can sit back demand that others give it to them. They are addicted to the system, just like the tens of millions of Americans who have been enslaved by Democrats (Liberals) and are now addicted to welfare! It's difficult or impossible to break any addiction -- especially hand-outs and welfare!

AAR

ABC NEWS: Premature Births Increase in U.S.

According to health care experts, there is no simple explanation for the increase in U.S. infant mortality.

"But there are a number of factors that could contribute," said Dr. William A. Engle, neonatologist with the Indiana University School of Medicine in Indianapolis.

"The number of babies born pre-term has increased in general, and pre-term populations are at a higher risk for morbidity and mortality," Engle said.

Births of two or more babies are often associated with prematurity, and, Engle said, "the number of multiple births has increased." Some of these multiple births are the result of fertility drugs and in-vitro fertilization procedures.

Engle explained that while a normal, healthy gestation period is 40 weeks, because of the increased number of pre-term deliveries, the gestation period in the United States now averages just 39 weeks. "The 34- to 37-week gestation group has increased over the last 10 years," he said. "There are fewer births after 40 weeks than there were even a few years ago."

REDUCE healthcare costs, REDUCE infant mortality, INCREASE average U.S. life expectancy...

STOP the use of fertility drugs and in-vitro fertilization procedures!

AAR

Why would Canadians want to give up their government funded SOCIALIST healthcare system? Why work and pay for something when they can sit back demand that others give it to them.

Posted by: AAR at August 22, 2007 12:42 AM

You do realize, AAR, that the government funds our SOCIALIST health care system through taxation, do you not?

Americans who fall ill and are denied medical insurance coverage after years of paying premiums and Americans going bankrupt in order to pay for their medical treatments; yes, AAR, I guess that is what we all should try to emulate.

CO,
I guess you'd rather have the Canadian Government deny the treatments, and you'd rather have a Canadian going bankrupt because the Socialist system that took my money won't reimburse me for the real treatment I received in the US.

Good luck with that, btw, your system is going bankrupt; I'll see ya in the US clinic soon.

Statistical comparisons of Canada and the US in terms of longevity, infant mortality, etc are really useless for a number of reasons:

1. Longevity has more to due with ethnic make up than access to healthcare. For example, some cultures (blacks and hispanics)do not visit physicians until there is a seriously problem. Cultural diets high in fat lead to lower life expectanccy (blacks). As a group, Asians have a much higher life expectancy than either blacks or hispanics.

Based on this, the two year difference in life expectancy between the US and canada is easily explained by ethnic mix rather than access to healthcare.

Approximately 1/3 of the population of the US is made up of blacks and hispanics who have lower life expectancy related to culture and diet and not access to healthcare.

Canada only has 17% non-white population, of which approximately 50% is Asian, and only about 5% black

DO THE MATH.

2. Infant mortality is even more difficult to compare for the simple reason that there is no standard for collection of the numbers. For example, the US automatically counts ALL births, still, live or early deaths, in their statsitics of infant mortality. MOST other countries do not count still births, MANY countries do not count infant death which occurs in the first few months of life. In Japan, and China, where male babies are more culturally desireable than female, neither country counts a female live birth which ends (is terminated) during the first month after birth. (where are the NAGS and FEMINAZIs). Only the US count low birth weight babies (under 500 grams) who die in the first months after birth, all other countries choose to ignore this for statistical purposes on the basis that such babies are not viable to begin with. so US infant mortality statistics are far more HONEST than the rest of the world.

But let our leftist friends argue the stats without understanding them. As the saying goes figures lie and liars figure.