Mark, don't forget -

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

I think recently some have expressed an interest in pulling out of Afghanistan.

Don't forget:

Ban guns so that the criminals can't have them.

The Fairness Doctrine - so there will be "fairness" on the radio.

Eliminate the Department of Defense and set up a Department of Peace.

Reinstitute the draft so that the children of politicians can serve.

Increase spending on public schools and AIDS, because we all know that the success in teaching and halting the spread of AIDS is proportional to government spending.

Raise taxes on the rich, especially the inheritance tax so that they will pay their "fair share". But keep the foreign trusts and tax shelters in place so that people like Ted Kennedy can pass his ill-gotten fortune onto his family without theft of government.

Ban all cars and suburban sprawl to protect the environment. Because we all know that these will stop global warming and the thinning of the ozone (whatever happened to that crisis?).

I have to stop now, I'm getting nauseous.

You forgot about re-writing the constituion.

1.Freedom from religion you got but,
2.Take out second amendment. No guns.
3.Freedom of speech you agree with. (IE, No "Hate Speech", not sure what that is but I am sure it is whatever you are saying)
4.All amendments bumped down one, freedom of abortion added in at #1. They point out "see! Its been there all along!"
5.Open borders
6.Constitutional amendment for smoking pot, prostitution, and openly displaying your fetish (gay marriage)

4. Free cop killers like Mumia.

-you gotta love Mark. Of course - the whole point is that people believe that he is NOT a cop killer. That in fact his conviction was rushed because they wanted to convict SOMEONE of the murder and that decision had more to do with racism then actual facts. You might know this if you were even vaguely familiar with the actual facts of the case.

Of course - Mark frames it as if people want to free a KNOWN cop killer. But he has no shame so I shouldn't be surprised. What did Glen Beck or Bobby O give you that one Mark. If they said it on fox news it MUST be true.

Mark,
I am going to print this list off and should it to the people that I know are liberal. If I don't get a 100% yes this is my agenda, does that mean you are completely clueless? Or are you just sterotyping people in an attempt to make Republicans look as thought they care about mankind?

When do the Democrats propose legislation renaming the country to the Union of Socialist States of America? They so miss the USSR, they will settle for the USSA.

Mark,
"I am going to print this list off and should it to the people that I know are liberal. If I don't get a 100% yes this is my agenda, does that mean you are completely clueless? Or are you just sterotyping people in an attempt to make Republicans look as thought they care about mankind?"

Posted by: rockville at July 13, 2007 09:31 AM

Apparently rockville was either smokin something or dropped acid when he wrote this piece of literary perfection...so please "should" [sic] it to your friend peoples.....duh...OK!

If all of those things happened in the blink of an eye can anyone of you Right Wingers tell me how really different America would be? I posit that the great vast bulk of people would go to work, pay their bills and spend more than they save just like now. The only measurable difference would be your personal intestinal distress Noonan. I heard similar lists of things that would destroy America from Dixiecrats in the 1960s. Shame on you!

Don't forget - they also wanted all kinds of satanic and paganistic symbols on government-furnished grave markers.

navydad, now don't go makin' fun of Rocky. He's intellectually disadvantaged and gramatically challenged, doncha know? It does make one wonder, though, just how many of our resident Leftist trolls are junior high and high school kids, sneaking onto their mom's computer when she's not looking.

kblack, I don't know what you consider to be the "facts" of the case, but Mumia Abu Jamal has been on death row since 1982, and, in those 25 years, none of his supporters has been able to prove that he was unjustly convicted. If anyone has ever gotten the benefit of the doubt from our justice system, it's Mumia.

Great list, Mark, TiredofLibBS and Calvin. Certainly an element of truth in virtually every point.

In short, they want to do everything that is wrong.

a few words from one of your token liberals:

Foreign/Military Affairs

1. Withdraw from Iraq. – agree, do it slowly but get going. Perhaps we should go into Paksitan, you know, where AQ actually IS and has been.
2. Partner up with Syria and Iran for middle east peace. – agree, so does the ISG
3. Invade Darfur, but only as UN "peacekeepers". – agree, we shouldn’t go in alone
4. Establish full relations with Castro's government. – at this point Castro’s toast. Reestablishing relations with Cuba may be the best way to insure that Raul won’t be able to keep the status quo after his death.
5. Severely reduce US military aid to Israel. – Our current support of Israel is one of the main reasons for targeting the US. We should reconsider our aid as well as pressuring Israel to make concessions to solve this mess. Israel is the only country more hard headed and vindictive than our present government.
6. Defer to the UN before carrying out any major military operation. – not defer but include, hint look at Iraq and who’s left holding the bag.
7. Close Gitmo and give everyone a taxpayer funded attorney. – it’s an outrage that Bush has rewritten the rules for prisoners, changed the interpretation of the Geneva Conventions and allowed torture to be part of acceptable techniques and set up this alternate universe. People have been taken prisoner for hundreds of years, there is no need to ‘invent’ new procedures for dealing with them.

Economic Affairs

1. Raise taxes. – no, restructure the tax system so that it’s more progressive. Why should someone making minimum wage pay an effective total tax burden approaching 30%? Why should my tax burden be 50%. Why should the very wealthy burden be 20% or lower? Yes, I include payroll, sales, real estate etc. do the math, you’re getting screwed.
2. Cut military spending. – absolutely, why should the US be paying the bill for being the world’s police force. Our military’s primary function is to secure oil and trade routes. The world benefits and should pay accordingly.
3. Increase social spending. – yes, we should heavily invest in our citizens. The clearest example of this was the GI Bill post WWII. Did wonders for the country as a whole.
4 Increase regulations on business. – yes, people fail to recognize how much damage unfettered corporations can do. Remember worldcom, enron, S&L, and soon to come mortgage and hedge fund bailout that will dwarf anything in memory.
5. Raise the minimum wage, and then keep raising it to keep pace with inflation. – yes, citizens should have the right to live if they work. When I first started working, it was $1.65. Doesn’t seem like much but adjusted for government inflation that’s over $8 and if you use pre-Reagan inflation, it would be over $13/hr. And you know, $13/hr ain’t so bad is it?
6. Institute socialized medical care. – we already have this although it’s called single payer. It’s known as Medicare/Medicaid. It represents something like 60% of medical spending in this country. It’s overhead is about 1.5% compared to 30% for private insurance. You people need to get on board with this soon because it won’t be too long now when you won’t be able to get or afford your own insurance.
7. Forgot this one – Immigration – any employer that is caught with illegal workers should be heavily fined, per worker, per day – problem over. Will also solve the minimum wage problem above. It’s not that Americans won’t do these jobs, they just won’t do them for the pay being offered.

Social Policy.

1. Institute gay marriage. – don’t care about this but if folks want to create a legal relationship and receive the benefits that we define for others, I don’t have a problem with it. Also don’t think it will ruin our country or cause my kids to become gay.
2. Federally fund abortion on demand. – Absolutely, there are quite frankly too many people in the world. We have surpassed the carrying capacity of the planet. If we don’t it, Mother Nature will in due time.
3. Establish rigid quotas for minorities in business and education, and keep calling it "affirmative action". – no but, there is nothing wrong with government or others to attempt to rectify what 100 yrs of jim crow and similar has done. This should ne done constitutionally but again, there is a compelling interest for the society as a whole.
4. Forbid even the slightest expression of religion on any public property; unless the religion is non-Christian. – no, only specific religious expression. I don’t have an issue with “In God We trust” and similar, but I do have a problem with people who want this to be a “Christian Nation”. These folks scare me.
5. Institute reparations for slavery. – funny but no, history is history, why not return the US to the Native Americans then eh?
6. Add – decriminalize drugs – it’s ridiculous to put people in jail for smoking pot or doing some other drug. What was the lesson of prohibition? You can’t stop folks from doing what they want to do. This in itself may help with many problems from government spending on prison, courts, police, guards etc, to not destroying young people’s lives with records.

Specialty issues

1. Impeach the President and Vice President. – no, too late for that. Should have been done long ago
2. Try the President and Vice President for War Crimes in front of an international tribunal. – no but we should force them to come clean on the war decisions, torture decisions, AG decisions, signing statements, politicization of government agencies and on and on. Then We The People can decide and judge accordingly.
3. Implement Kyoto, make belief in anthropogenic global warming mandatory in government funded research. – no, it’s too late. We should be focusing our main efforts on the impending and unending energy crisis. Yea, I know, peak oil doesn’t exist. That’s apparently not what the IEA said this week. Not what the head of Conoco Phillips said this week…
4. Free cop killers like Mumia. – no.

By the way, congrats to Bush for managing tie Nixon in the Harris poll for the lowest approval EVER and, he’s got 18 months to go. Also congrats for allowing AQ to regain full strength and operational capability. I thought he said we would go after all terrorists and countries that harbor them.

Close Gitmo and give everyone a taxpayer funded attorney.

Treat every captured jihadi as a criminal defendant, with all the rights enjoyed by such defendants in civilian courts. More generally, return to Clinton's (and Bush's pre-9/11) miserably failed policy of treating terror as a law-enforcement matter.

Free cop killers like Mumia.

The left seems to believe that black defendants can NEVER be guilty when accused of crimes against white victims, while white defendants are ALWAYS guilty when accused of crimes against non-white victims.

kblack, if you want to talk about the facts concerning Abu Mumia Jamal and his MURDER of officer Falkland, let me give you a few:

Jamal was found wearing an empty shoulder holster. Found near him on the curb was a gun, which was registered in his own name, with 5 spent shells, to which 2 bullets in Faulkner's body were matched.

Jamal was also wounded by Faulkner before he died. The bullet taken from Jamal matched Faulkner's gun. If someone else killed Faulkner, and the cops and/or court wanted "SOMEONE" to take the rap, how did the victim's bullet get into Jamal's body?

The jury, by the way, was MULTIRACIAL. Did the whites on the jury persuade the non-whites to join in their alleged racism?

Now I realize that our justice system is run by fallible humans, which can even include racist humans. Yes, sometimes we get it wrong. That's why we have the appeal proceedure in the first place. But I don't believe that the conviction of Jamal is one of them.

Conversly, how about the racists who ignore these facts and believe Jamal is innocent?

I remember reading about Roger Keith Coleman, convicted and executed in VA for the rape and murder of his sister-in-law, and thinking that there was a slight (and I do mean SLIGHT) chance that he could have been innocent. Then the most recent DNA tests came around, and my doubts disappeared. It's one thing to believe that someone's a victim of the justice system, another to prove it.

1. Consult with Francois Kerry and update our Constitution, or at least "interpret" our Constitution with the approval of the international community.
2. Appoint justices to the Supreme Court who will legislate changes in the Constitution.

"5. Severely reduce US military aid to Israel. – Our current support of Israel is one of the main reasons for targeting the US. We should reconsider our aid as well as pressuring Israel to make concessions to solve this mess. Israel is the only country more hard headed and vindictive than our present government."

I am so sick and tired of hearing left-wingers use this argument to justify the islamic world's hatred of the west. If the Isreali/Palestinian conflict were to be resolved tomorrow, do you really think there would be any less animosity toward us? The answer is a resounding no. Muslim countries like to use this conflict as a scapegoat for all of their own problems... Massive corruption, repression of women, repression of other religions, and overall repression of their respective populations. Islamic governments love to point their finger at Isreal to whip up anger as a way to distract from the real issues plaguing their goverments. Apparantly it works to distract the extreme left-wingers in our country as well.

(Also Mark... most of my posts aren't making it to the blog. Not sure if it's a computer glitch on my end or I am being censored for some reason. My posts aren't inflammatory or offensive so I wouldn't think that would be the case. Just curious.)

2. Federally fund abortion on demand.

Don't forget the left's "pet", the partial-birth abortion.

This, my friends, is a perfect example of one of Mark's "I don't really have anything pro-Bush to talk about, so I'll just stereotype liberals" posts.

What about Chertoff's gut?

The fact that the Iraqi government is failed in a way that General Hayden said is irreversible?

Will you let the crickets answer those questions for you?

Time will tell...

You forgot about stacking the Supreme Court with Ruth Bader types so the "living" Constitution can be interpreted using a current day perspective so legislation is no longer needed.

Only those so enlightened are able to see "rights" to abortion, punitive taxation, social engineering, reverse discrimination, gun control, etc.

It's just so much easier to mandate the looney left's agenda from the bench.

It is more than stereotyping Rana, it is fanning the flames of ignorance, fear and intolerance in broad generalities. Why not add David Vitter to this discussion? You know, the paragon of family values who apparently likes to wear womens panty hose. Great duplicitous role model in that guy! Makes me want to join the party! I guess Jack Burkman got so excited that his pumps fell off.
How about the Washington Post article on Cheney? Or Harriet Miers' refusal to show up to testify yestreday, even though she is a private citizen now. Anyone with an IQ over 60 wants to know what the administration is hiding.
Or Sarah Taylor and her allegence not to the constitution, her country and the rule of law, but to her blind loyality to GWB, the hologram president.
Or how about that almost 70% of the Iraqi people say things will get better there when we leave.
That the "enemy" we are fighting are the Iraqi people themselves. That AQ was organizational and now its morphed into a populace movement. The world isn't simplistic. As Forest Gump said, simple is as simple does.
Why is Mark so insistent on dividing people?
Some great intellect.
We can all sink or we all float because we're all in the same big boat.

What the Right Wants

Foreign/Military Affairs
1. Stay in Iraq forever. Make it our 51st state.
2. Nuke Syria and Iran, convert the survivors to Christianity.
3. Ignore Darfur and all other countries on the continent Africa.
4. Assasinate Castro and his brother and all their kin. Build a fence around Key West.
5. Give Israel some nukes.
6. Dissolve the the UN and convert the building to a mega Christian church.
7. Incarcerate trolls on conservative blogs in Gitmo and then forget they are there.

Economic Affairs
1. Lower taxes to nothing to increase tax revenue to infinity.
2. Use tax revenue for military spending only and create better and better things to kill brown people with.
3. Due away with social spending.
4. Drop regulations on business.
5. Due away with minimum wage and a wage at all in some special cases(see Social Policy #5).
6. Due away with being able to sue incompetent doctors who amputate the wrong body part.

Social Policy.
1. Make it illegal to not be a Christian. Only have sex if married and trying to make a baby.
2. Bomb all the abortion clinics.
3. Only allow white men to be management in profitable companies.
4. Make everybody hold hands say the 'Our Father' every hour on the hour.
5. Reinstitute slavery.

Specialty issues
1. Due away with term limits for Republican Presidents and Vice Presidents.
2. Imprison Democrats in Gitmo for treason who vote withdrawal from Iraq.
3. Increase carbon emmissions until global warming has made the whole world a tropical paradise.
4. Free anyone in the administration who's been convicted of any crime
5. Add signing statements to the Constitution.

Very good Aitch! You get the gold star and move to the head of the class.
Oh yeah, I forgot. Teachers and professors are eletist liberals.

Aitch .... a lot of "Due aways" doncha think?

Now I think I can say this in truth:

My friends here at B4B (unlike RQ, who only has Cyber & Forgetmeknocht as friends), you have just witnessed, with this Aitch twit, the most outlandish, retarded statement ever placed before the American public....OMG!!! (:o

Is a "due away" the same as a "do away"

Aitch, are you and rockville in the basement smokin spleeeff....phhhhiiiiittt!

Navy:
B4B is not presented to the American public. The only people who go here are those that have linked to it some how.

When you talk about spleef it sounds as if you have some experience.

funny - too bad the liberal want list is accurate and the conservative one is stupid made up liberal propaganda. Oh, liberal elitists - e-l-i-t-i-s-t-s. Add it to your spell check software.

YOU'RE the majority - so rule! We've heard you say these things. Not the crap the "voices" tell you about conservatives.

Our next 23 states will be the Mexican states. I wonder how many Representatives the 50 million people in Mexico City will get?

Mark is giving us insight into the Repug's 2008 election strategy. There will be no debate on important issues such as global warming, immigration, the best way to deal with terrorist, lowering education cost, health care reform, lowering local taxes, undoing the Neocon damage to our military and justice department.

What is left of the neocon machine such as Kristal, Rove, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter and Mark will give us silly “have you stopped beating your spouse” simplifications as Mark list. For spice they will throw in some juvenile Limbaugh type name calling; dingy Harry, piglosi, drive by media. The Republicans are void of ideas. Had they had just one idea they would have accomplished something when they had absolute power for six years.

Republicans have a strong lemming following; problem is the remaining 70% of the American people are not buying their crap any longer. They are working hard on doing away with our constitutional rights so they can remain in power, but should run out of time by the next election.

Mark I pray Republicans run this type of divisive campaign. We only need 6 seats to remove neocons from all corners of the government except the Supreme Court

Kahn-

You know your just walking in to the "Republicans are obstructionists" line, right?

It's a razor thin majority, and the Republicans filibuster anything that moves. If you blame anyone for Congress not doing anything, blame your fellow Republicans.

Rana, We do thank them! And President Bush for vetoing the crap this Congress has drawn up. Lame Duck Congress it is.

navydad,

You're right. "Due away" should be "Do away". I don't even think "due away" has a comprehensible meaning.

I find as I get older I'm having trouble with homonyms. Sad. But for the most part I'm a pretty good speller.

Oh, by the way, I have a Navy dad (retired after 23 years of service).

the very first point about "withdraw from Iraq" is the most vital argument there is. Why are troops dying, being KILLED, for bush to get $ for his friends?

I see clearly why this country is so deeply divided. It is because of people like you Mark, who just seem to have to thrive by continually writing this kind of stuff - a constant degrading of others. You just just cannot seem to stop yourself. Do you ever bother to look at what we might have in common instead of always the differences - and exaggerated at that. I say this not as a member of any political party or movement, but as an American, Christian, mother, grandmother and human being. In my entire life I have never seen our country so divided - and I sincerely think we can thank people like you for the divisiveness from which we suffer. It is so obvious that you relish keeping people riled up - after all it is how you make your living. You constantly write about your belief in God, being Catholic, the importance of religion, etc and I am trying not to judge you, but I would ask that you seriously question your motivies when you write the kind of tripe in this piece. Do you really believe in God's grace, promoting peace and harmony among those who might disagree with you politically, but still love this country as much as you do? I have got to stop reading this blog!!!! There is just too much hated here.

lost_my_bush

We'll just ignore you...moron....so leave.

Aitch, it's good you see your mistakes and acknowledge them, as so few on your side due
(done on purpose).

My youngest son served nine proud years and is now in college (at age 27), working on his degree.

BTW, although my writing skills are limited, there are many here--including a few kooks--that are good writers that us not-so-fortunate can learn from.

My friends, please go donate to Vets for Freedom. They are going to march on Washington on July 17th and they need cash to help stop the leftists in Congress that will destroy our country, so they can take control of whats left in '08. The money goes to reimburse the vets for travel costs and lost work. Please send them what you can.

http://www.vetsforfreedom.org/

The donation site:

https://secure.donationreport.com/donation.html

You guys seem to be content with letting the crickets answer my prior questions... I'm not surprised...

"This, my friends, is a perfect example of one of Mark's "I don't really have anything pro-Bush to talk about, so I'll just stereotype liberals" posts."

Rana, how can that be a stereotype? Its what the liberals say they want! Do you dispute that? The only response we've gotton so far on Mark's post is Aitch's pretend right wing agenda. I guess the crickets will have to suffice....

"What about Chertoff's gut?"

Is that actually a question? Lets see, Chertoff has a gut feeling their might be a terrorist attack this summer. Does that answer your question? Oh wait I got one for you:

What about Hillary's ass?

"The fact that the Iraqi government is failed in a way that General Hayden said is irreversible?"

Again, is that a question? It looks more like a statement that you accidentally put a question mark on.

I guess we can just wait for the crickets to answer those two really stupid questions, if they can actually be called questions.....

Wait Rana, I have a question for you:

The fact that the Democrats in congress want us to pull out of Iraq, genocide be damned?

3moreyears: you would have gotten my vote.

Aitch: almost perfect. If you could have included "do away with science" and "IOIYAR", it would be perfect.

jbiccum, why is it that al quada is STRONGER now than it was before 911? Why is it Chertoff has a gut feeling about a terroirst attack on the U.S.? And why is it Bush is still "winning the war on terrorism?"

is this picture obscured in some way?

i mean either Bush is succeeding or failing. Yet if there is a *gut feeling* and al quada is gaining stregnth...how is it exaclty Bush is "winning"?

hmmm- i guess "winning" to the Bush supporters means INCREASING terroist threats and growing al quada? now i get it.

Aitch, you did such a good list, I'm gonna paste it and list the true desire as .a below yours.

What the Right Wants

Foreign/Military Affairs
1. Stay in Iraq forever. Make it our 51st state.
.a Stay in Iraq until it is secure enough not to be a safe haven for terrorists.
2. Nuke Syria and Iran, convert the survivors to Christianity.
.a Prevent Iran from developing Nuclear weapons.
3. Ignore Darfur and all other countries on the continent Africa.
.a See that Darfur is a UN problem.
4. Assasinate Castro and his brother and all their kin. Build a fence around Key West.
.a No intent at all until Castro dies.
5. Give Israel some nukes.
.a Israel already has nukes.
6. Dissolve the the UN and convert the building to a mega Christian church.
.a Make the UN neutral.
7. Incarcerate trolls on conservative blogs in Gitmo and then forget they are there.
.a no intent.

Economic Affairs
1. Lower taxes to nothing to increase tax revenue to infinity.
.a so far, it works.
2. Use tax revenue for military spending only and create better and better things to kill brown people with.
.a maintain sufficient military force to keep you from being nuked.
3. Due away with social spending.
.a Give entitlements to only people that need it.
4. Drop regulations on business.
.a Baloney
5. Due away with minimum wage and a wage at all in some special cases(see Social Policy #5).
.a Why should governments guarantee income?
6. Due away with being able to sue incompetent doctors who amputate the wrong body part.
.a why?

Social Policy.
1. Make it illegal to not be a Christian. Only have sex if married and trying to make a baby.
.a observe religion as private issue.
2. Bomb all the abortion clinics.
.a why?
3. Only allow white men to be management in profitable companies.
.a Let each company manage it's business to make a profit.
4. Make everybody hold hands say the 'Our Father' every hour on the hour.
.a make no laws establishing a religion.
5. Reinstitute slavery.
.a ridiculous

Specialty issues
1. Due away with term limits for Republican Presidents and Vice Presidents.
.a why?
2. Imprison Democrats in Gitmo for treason who vote withdrawal from Iraq.
.a And torture them? Not a bad idea, but not on the agenda.
3. Increase carbon emmissions until global warming has made the whole world a tropical paradise.
.a the more CO2 the more food for trees.
4. Free anyone in the administration who's been convicted of any crime
.a This is the Clinton Doctrine.
5. Add signing statements to the Constitution.
.a Constitution has already been approved, as is.

I consider myself a conservative and this represents the true situation. Not a liberal view of them.

Regarding #4. "Establish full relations with Castro's government."

We Canucks are totally puzzled why you don't just get over it and establish normal relationships with Cuba. You fought a long hard bloody war in Vietnam and now you have a relationship with that government and every thing is hunky dory. You also have relationships with China and other non-democratic governments. So, can somebody explain why Cuba gets the cold shoulder?

Also ATTENTION CAINDIE:
--If you register with TYPEKEY, you will have more successful postings.

canuck- thank you :)

i'm litterally afraid for my life. The tyrrany that Hitler imposed was at least straight forward. With W- it is hidden...and the blind follow the wolf in sheep's clothing. scarry as could ever be.

closely coiffed: i'm litterally afraid for my life.

If you are, no assurances Canuckguy can offer is going to change anything. But if you're worried about repercussions from individuals on this site, just learn to spell and don't get too nasty and you'll be fine.

For the record, you're so far okay on the latter but you definitely need work on the former. Like lots. I'm not really criticizing, I'm just saying. I'll leave it to others to criticize. And they will. So be prepared.

Rana said "the Republicans filibuster anything that moves."

Name a filibuster and the Republicans who filibustered.

"i'm litterally afraid for my life. The tyrrany that Hitler imposed was at least straight forward. With W- it is hidden...and the blind follow the wolf in sheep's clothing. scarry as could ever be."

I outlined previously the fascist actions being taken by so called "liberals. Among them, disarming the populace, control of the media, vilification of political opponents, and moves to restrict opposition speech.

To see how the government acts under Democrats please look up the deaths at Waco were the FBI used tanks to attack the (admittedly wacko) Branch Davidians. The ensuing fire killed all the Davidians including women and children who were underground in a bunker - no fire department was called until the fires were out and everyone was dead.

Or read up on Ruby Ridge. A 14 year old boy (whose father was a wacko militia nut) was hunting on his own property when he was startled by two camoflauged deputies. They killed him. Later, the FBI was ordered to kill his father (Randy Weaver) even if no life was in danger. This was a major policy move. FBI snipers had ALWAYS acted only to save lives that were indanger. They tried to shoot Weaver (who was again, NOT an immediate threat), and Weavers wife was killed by accident. She was not armed and was carrying a baby in her arms. No chrges were filed. The FBI shot an unarmed mother who was carrying her baby. Why don't you write ex-president Clinton and ask him why?

THAT is law enforcement under Democrats. Give me some examples of Bush doing that kind of crap to Americans - then we can talk.

Mark, my friend, you're a loser. I answered all of your talking points one for one and have had no response. I take this as an acknowlegment of me being correct and you being wrong. Sorry for your current state of political misalignment.

j

P.S.

Now this POS, that's right not POTUS but POS is claiming executive priviledge on the Tillman matter. Please explain to me how the botched Tillman story (propoganda) is considered priviledged. What the hell is going on here folks? When will you join the rest of America and demand the TRUTH? This punk needs to be taken down at all costs, and NOW is not too soon.

So, for all of you B4B apologists, please explain this one. Can't wait...

Dead women and children - the DEMOCRAT legacy 3MY.

You control every major network except one, and you villify it and want it gone.

You want conservatives on the radio muzzled.

You want our guns.

Last time you were in power you used tanks to kill American children.

Kahn,

Get a grip dude! You sound very agitated and desperate. Maybe it's because you're finally realizing your political viewpoint is lost and a complete failure.

BTW, I don't control any networks. I don't want your guns, I have plenty for myself and I've never been in power and never driven a tank. It's true, my brother drove a tank for the USA in GE but I've never been behind the wheel of one personally, have you? I'm not even sure what you're talking about with the children here but that's not unusual for people such as yourself, raving in the wind as it were.

"We Canucks are totally puzzled why you don't just get over it and establish normal relationships with Cuba. You fought a long hard bloody war in Vietnam and now you have a relationship with that government and every thing is hunky dory."

Canuckguy,

Disproportionately politically powerful Cuban voters have held Congress hostage for decade. It's the same thing with American farmers, which is why we have massive farm subsidies that keep the price of food artificially high and stifle the economies of the developing world.

Gar Wood

GW,

Please check your math. US policies keep food prices artificially low. We get cheap food at the expense of cheap foreign labor. Pre WWII, families spent about 30% of income on food. We buy bananas cheap because of our policies and what Chicita does - like suppport right wing militias and death squads. WE, in this country need to face facts...our standard of living exists at the expense of others. Now there may be plenty of folks who say that's ok but, in the end, we have a lovely life because others don't.

Yea, I know, Christian values and all...

Mumia shot Faulkner, most Philadelphians think he did, and Philadelphia is an overwhelmingly Dem city (P.S.--I'm not a Dem, I'm unaffiliated). So toss the "Everyone who doesn't support Bush wants to free Mumia" propaganda. It's not true.

http://www.wizardsofaz.com/waco/waco.html

Yea Kahn, the wacko's in Waco is what I'm really worried about these days. F' Karesh and his followers. Reminds me of The People's Temple. It's hard to get excited about folks like that. Maybe for you though...

YO! LOST_MY_BUSH

Maybe I'm dense but what are you thanking me for?

Yes Karesh was crazy. That justified the incineration of one year old babies? You actually looked at the pictures?

You call us fascists and thats based on what? Some supposed slight from the NSA program? I say, you've tried to take our guns, you attack the only non-left TV news network, and want to pass laws to stifle conservative talk radio. AND - I show you of AMERICAN BABIES killed by tanks driven by FBI agents.

You actually look at the pictures of those little kids bodies melted together - and you tell me, why did THEY deserve to die at the hands of President Clintons Justice Department.

If you're going to throw words like fascist around at US, well don't be surprised when we respond - and point out what a bunch of jerks YOU really are.

"F' Karesh and his followers. Reminds me of The People's Temple. It's hard to get excited about folks like that. Maybe for you though..."

I'm sure you would have been a good SS trooper. 'F those Jewish babies. Why waste a billet? Throw them right in the oven.

Canuck, yes you're dense.

Thanks to 3MY for proving that liberals do NOT care about dead American babies. His or her attitude has solidified my conviction that the Second Amendment is there to protect me from among other things, a dangerous government.

Was Karesh a wacko? Definately. Did those babies deservge to die, or even need to die? Well according to 3MY, yes. But I disagree. I guess we've proved a point here.

Thanks 3MY. Glad I goaded you into admitting the truth. We've proven that you are willing to burn unarmed American and little bibies to death. And you call US fascist?

"That in fact his conviction was rushed because they wanted to convict SOMEONE of the murder and that decision had more to do with racism then actual facts. You might know this if you were even vaguely familiar with the actual facts of the case." kblack

Once again proving that he is a shill for leftist talking points.

MUMMIA was found GUILTY not once but TWICE. The bastard was found with the gun in his hand that killed the cop and Mummia also had a bullet in him from the cops gun.

Case closed...FRY THE BASTARD!!!

markham listham
after reading both of those lists
i can't help but think how bad we need a 3rd party
you'll laugh at that
but some common sense would go a long way right now
don't you agree????

3moreyears,

I don't see how what you said contradicted anything that I wrote.

Gar Wood

Canuck- i should have made the point- mainly about Vietnam and our graniose relationship. Or that it is at least on the up beat. all these fatalist righ wingers prancing around and yelling "if we leave it will be worse than ever" etc.

i mean Ford got smart, salvaged the bits and peices from V.N. and look at us now. Seems to me we can bypass any more American, Brittish, or Canadian blood and get out now. Let Iraq heal its own damn self. Shake hands in 15 years and call it a draw.

But, i suppose bush would rather keep killing American and allied troops (no offense to you guys, as we really are losing a lot more). But Bush would rather keep killing our kids to hook up his bud's.

Any way, i should have alluded to the Vietnam point you made.

point is- we can save some lives and maybe some $ if we pack up now.

lmb,

Nope! It's a swim or die issue!!

We fight, We survive!

We surrender in defeat, AQ will attack!

Jeremiah

LMB - yes, 35 years later and all in great. of course, there were those millions dead killed by the Not=rth Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge next door. But what the hell? If you guys don't care about burning dead American babies, why should you care about Vietnamese and Cambodians ones.

Does YOUR prison have a G.E.D. program?

I honestly can't understand how I could type THAT bad. How did I get the = in North? Jeeezzzz.

Jer. and Kahn

what exactly does Iraq do to invite terroist with our troops there?

yeah i thought so.

I'm no terrorist, but seems to me the smart path would be to come to the US of A. and skip Iraq, but what the hell do i know. Bush knows terrorists and he always seems to know what they think.

increadible.

Iraq= a terroist magnet.

Stupid terrists- our troops are there!

Iraq= a terroist magnet.

Stupid terrorists- our troops are there!

1 last time terrorist

fingers pay attention!

So, going to ignore the pictures of the babies the FBI under Clinton burned to death. Well, I can understand that I guess. It is after all, an inconvenient truth.

When we moved into Iraq we occupied a central seat in mid-east wackoland. Iraq borders Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Turkey, and Iran. We stuck our faces right in the middle of that area and thumbed our noses at them. So, we created the magnet. Yes, we ARE the magnet. And, well I know you can tell us how many Americans have been killed since the beginning of the war. Right?

How many Iraqi soldiers and insurgents have been killed?

I thought so.

iraqi soldiers under Sadaam. If you're going to count soldiers killed back to then, count enemy killed as well.

"what exactly does Iraq do to invite terroist with our troops there?"

lmb,

They don't, The Libtards, like YOU, do that, with your stupid defeatist rhetoric!!

Now do us a magic trick, and disappear, real soon!!!

Jeremiah

jbiccum-

Mark is attributing the actions of a few individuals in congress to an entire side of the political spectrum, when it is infinitely apparent to many that not all members in that group support those actions. That is called "Proof by example" and is a type of logical fallacy. Colloquially, it is called stereotyping.

Let's see... My "statements with question marks" were implications that I wanted you guys to actually talk about those things... apparently you don't do well when FOX or talk radio doesn't tell you what to think. Really, "answer for" would have been a better way to state it... but as long as you want to debate grammar instead of policy, I'll just point out that you really don't have anything to say...

Jer... if Iraq is NOT a terroist magnet, then why are we there?

and since it isn't- then wh are we there?

you want it both ways right?

sore of like we are "winning but not losing". hmm i heard that some where a while back...

Besides if we are not winning nor losing (duhbya) then why is it Iran is in Iraq, AQ is stronger than ever and a terroist attack is imminent. But we hear you loud and clear. We are winning the war on terror!

Jer... if Iraq is NOT a terroist magnet, then why are we there?

and since it isn't- then wh are we there?

you want it both ways right?

sort of like we are "winning but not losing". hmm i heard that some where a while back...

Besides if we are not winning nor losing (duhbya) then why is it Iran is in Iraq, AQ is stronger than ever and a terroist attack is imminent. But we hear you loud and clear. We are winning the war on terror!

Rockville,

I don't say that 100% of liberals want these things 100% of the time - but I'll bet any amount of money that a poll of America's liberals would find very large majorities in favor of all the things I've listed as "what the left wants".

What is really interesting - and may end up being decisive in 2008 - is how liberal leadership shies away from talking about any of these issues; issues which rank-and-file liberal/left people care about with great passion. For the GOP to win next year, it is a matter of nailing the Democratic leadership down on this - either getting them to embrace it in public (and thus lose the election), or repudiate it in public (and thus lose the election).

Honesty is the best policy - for everyone who is not of the liberal/left. You on the left start telling people just what you believe, and you'll be crushed...and if you don't know this, then it sure as heck is known by Hillary, Obama, Edwards, etc...our job, as Republicans, is to point out what you believe and keep pointing it out until election day.

Kblack,

Only a liberal could say that there are questions about the Mumia case - he's a murderer, plain and simple; he was convicted because he was doing very, very bad things. That he's managed to pick up the lingo of an American leftist and has learned that a liberal will swallow anything as long as there is an anti-American angle to it is just more proof that liberals are unfit to govern.

Tookie Williams used to protest his innocence as well.

Someone asked what would happen if the left got their way. We already know, from countless examples:

1) Business activity, outside of illegal black market trading, would be controlled by Leftists and their children.

2) The economy would be moribund, with the vast bulk of the population treated as expendable peasants, and the overwhelming majority of wealth in the hands of Leftist party members.

3) Israel would disappear. What Jews and Christians who did not escape before it fell would be slaughtered (just as Vietnamese people considered loyal to the South Vietnamese government were liquidated once Saigon fell in 1975).

18th century Leftism was a product of the Enlightenment, and was republican in outlook, but went bad very quickly in France. During the 19th century it transformed into a haven for violent social outcasts. By the 20th century it was little more than a scheme for establishing secular feudal dictatorships in vunerable states. Bolshevism, Nazism and Maoism were its most prominent branches during this period, with each faction subsequently allying with and betraying the other as circumstances warranted. But all these groups shared several elements in common - they were atheists, 'scientific' socialists, and claimed to have the one and only answer to how people should be compelled to live.

Nowadays the Left is a transnational criminal syndicate, with a number of different, hostile factions involved in narcoterrorism, kidnapping, human smuggling, work camp slavery, and a number of other unsavory enterprises meant to enrich its members.

By stating this, I do not seek to be "divisive". I seek to be honest. We should not learn to live with mass murder and thievery, we should learn to recognise it for what it is and fight it. We learned to treat Nazism with disgust, so I see no reason why purveyors of similar socialist movements should not be treated with an equivalent contempt, especially since several of these movements (notably Chinese communism) have had even worse historical records.

So, lost_my_bush, if you think we are losing the war on terror, what ideas do you and he rest of the leties/Democrats have?

So far, all we have heard from you folks is surrender in Iraq, better security for our trains and better security for our ports. You guys simply want to play defense. Y'all have even mentioned better security at our airports, but I think that mostly has to do with smoking.

And, there is the ever popular liberal notion that if we could just talk with terrorists, get to know them, find out what we have done wrong, we could fix it once and for good.

Anything of substance, or will we get "Democrats aren't in the White House" as an answer?

Kahn America helped kill those vietnamese and cambodian babies. While the vietnamese both South and North have crimes to answer for so to does America. It wan't the North Vietnamese who carpet bombed Cambodia and gave aid to the Khymer Rouge allowing Pol Pot to remain in power and destroy the Cambodian people,also what about all the innocent "collateral damage" created by the use of Napalm and so on in Vietnam. I doubt there is any country in the world that is innocent of crimes and I don't see why Partisanship should be involved. Liberals, Conservatives, communists, socialists, etc. have all failed at one point or another and carried out policies that have dire consequences for some countries, people, generally the poor. We all know that each country regardless of ideological stance will act in it's own interests but at some point we have to start thinking about the people our policies have an effect on and not just what we get from that policy. Was it alright for the West, chiefly Britain and the US, to support, arm and train Suharto a genocidal maniac who murdered 1/3 of the population of East Timor not to mention numerous Indonesians, so that we could introduce economic reforms to benefit us but not the people of Indonesia?

Weefee- it doesn't matter. The blind do not see reality. They only see kill for our God before their god kills us. Sort of like a slayer song or something.

Any way history elludes them as well as facts. The fact that leaving vietnam after all the American death was the only plausable ticket is sad. But for some reason the right is INISTANT on repeating that record again. Rather than having forsight, packing up early (without so many deaths) and getting on with American issues a opposed to Bush oil/ hook ups.

"What the Left Wants"----- probably a safer, saner, BUSH-FREE America. Probably a state of reality, integrity, and honor. Perhaps a country of liberty and freedom for ALL (not just Bush's cronies).

I mean America is "we the people" right?

somewhere Bush an his war mongoring religious zealots forgot this.

"America helped kill those vietnamese and cambodian babies" - AFYER We left?

We set up the death camps? Lined people up and shot them in the head? I don't know if you two are more ignorant or stupid. One thing for sure, your hatred for America and "Blame America First" attitude sure shines through.

weefee, read. LMB - you are still a liar. You claim you were once a Republican but Bush drove you away. Bull. Admit you were not honest. Or every single post you make will be discounted. You are also a coward. You call us fascist - but refuse to look at the pictures of what Bill clintons Justice Department did to American babies.

LMB - PROVEN liar and coward

I think the original list Mark put together struck a little too close to home for you liberals. You've attacked it. Then, you move on one by one to justify parts of it.

You do hate Fox News and talk radio, right?

You are for imposing the mis-named "fairness doctrine" on the radio, right?

You do want us out of Iraq now and damn the cosequences, right?

You do want "gun control" which means no guns in many places, right?

You do want to "eliminate the Bush tax cuts", which means raising taxes, right?

Now - you can answer with some obtuse dodge. Or you could just be honest. We know what LMB will do (obtuse dishonest answer). What will the rest of you do?

The fact that the Democrats in congress want us to pull out of Iraq, genocide be damned?
Posted by: jbiccum [TypeKey Profile Page] at July 13, 2007 04:46 PM

This is more Hannity and Limbaugh simplification and lies. True there are a couple of Dems in Congress that detest all killing and want us out of Iraq. But give me one link to a site that quotes a Democratic leader saying we are to get every last soldier out of Iraq. Most Democrats back the Baker-Hamilton plan, first conceived by Rep John Murtha. "Help our solders by getting them out of the middle of the civil war, pull back to the boarders, try to secure the boarders from outside influence, kill Al Qaeda, allow the army to rejuvenate, and send additional help to Afghanistan and Pakistan

No Kahn, it's not blame America. Nor is it rob america for every single dollar it has by taking the taxpayers money and givin it to Bush's homies.

You see unlike the greed right, the left is in fact FOR paying their fair share of taxes. Of which they would like it to STAY in america and not be used for Bush's oil buddies and corportae interest like G.E. Lockheed, etc.

But killing our troops for those guys and giving them all the taxpayers dollars- well i guess it's ok as long as the right doesn't want to pay thier fair share right?

so NO TTAXES unless it goes out of the hands of Americans and kills our troops...am i reading you right?

So keep the infrastructure of America running like crap, but keep those same tax dollars feeding Bush's buds. makes sense to me.

I don't just blame America, if you read properly I said that every country commits crimes and that the south and North Vietnamese had crimes to answer for also. You might not have set up Pol Pots camps but you gave him aid thus helping him prop up his regime (Ironically it was the vietnamese who tried to drive him from power), you also propped up suharto too. However to gloss over our own countries crimes is hypocritical and shows the wests lack of moral superiority.

The list I agree some of it I support. Iraq withdrawl I don't because I know nothing of military and strategic matters so I'll leave that to the military and diplomats. I am strongly against the war and the reasons for going but I want the best solution for the Iraqi people which I don't think will be western imposed but we'll have to wait and see. The UN should be neutral at the moment the US vetos more policies than anyone followed closely by Britain.

I actually watch Fox news, I don't mind it really they can say what they want and I will assess the information that I get from various sources and then make my mind up. As for talk radio people listen to what they want to hear generally so why try and regulate it if people like they will listen, if not they won't. I think a fairness doctrine should only be imposed on the main news but nothing else. We need facts not opinion on the news but anything else they can say what they want.

Guns to me are foreign, I don't see the point of them and in my opinion don't see how they make you safer. I strongly support gun control but then Americas guns don't affect me.

Tax cuts couldn't care about, I don't like tax being raised as much as the next person but I'm willing to pay an extra penny or 2 if it improves services and benefits society and me.

Abortion you probably Know I am pro choice. Gay marriage I don't see the big deal about, doesn't affect anyone but the people getting married.

I don't understand the castro thing as Cannuck said you have relationships with governments as bad as or worse than his government. I think diplomacy is vital to any solution in any conflict so middle east diplomacy is a good idea in my opinion.

plainjane- asking Bush to secure our borders is like asking the Terrorist Shot caller to stay out of America......wooops!

I guess we can just count on Bush to invite the terrorists. He can keep his gullable blind supporters scared that way.

LMB is a proven liar. Don't respond to him/her until they come clean.

I do thank him/her for the obtuse dishonest post above. You'll see I predicted that.

weefee - We propped up Pol Pot and Suharto, and the North wasn't so bad when they took over the south. Great - get out of the coffee house now thats not cigarette smoke.

I disagree with your points - but appreciate your honesty and clarity. Something lacking in some other liberal posts.

By the way, its been proven that guns make you safer. Crime rates go down where guns are less restricted.

Kahn- I was not the one pouning on the UN table screaming WMD's. it is not I that for over 4 years said we were "winning the war on terror". It is not I that fabricated heroic fantasy propaganda about Jessica Lynch. Nor was it i that said PAt Tillman died by heavy enemy fire.

Who is the liar Kahn?

i guess all the lefty nuts are for disbelieveing Bush's lies right?

Just becaue you BELEIVE BUSH's lies, don't try to make eveyone else feel bad for your gullible bad judgment- or simple blind faith in facist imperialism.

Just becaue you BELEIVE CLINTON'S lies, don't try to make eveyone else feel bad and believe them for your gullible bad judgment- or simple blind faith in Socialist Tyranny!!

Now, Disappear!

Jeremiah

That's to you, lmb, kook...

Jer- yep you got me. Clinton killed tillman then lied about it. ...

Right....

"Clinton killed tillman then lied about it."

I guess so, afterall, he's the reason behind 9/11!

He still does not want to own up to what the plane in the desert was all about, WHAT A MYSTERY! and he knew full well, what he was up to!!

Bill Clinton is a murderer in my opinion, and should swing!

Jeremiah

ok then

let's hear it for reality.

i can not beleive you guys actualy beleive the spoopla you bloat out.

Just to step back from the fray Lost My Bush has stirred up:

"Disproportionately politically powerful Cuban voters have held Congress hostage for decade.
Comment by GAR WOOD

Gar: I knew about the Cuban lobby, I guess I never figured they were so powerful.

What I was looking for was a rational sensible logical reason why Cuba is so isolated by the USA government but nobody has supplied any so I guess your explanation is the answer.

LMB - still claiming to be an ex-Republican? You lie my friend and hence I refuse to take you seriously.

You call us fascists for supposed infractions - but refuse to comment on, or even look at pictures of little children burned to death by Clinton's Justice Department.

You are a hateful and brainlocked political hack. Until you both come clean and open your mind - I (and I think others) will ignore you.

I was over at Yahoo A a bit ago, and some guy thought up a good name for the ACLU!

-The Anti Christian Lawyers Union -

Sounds right!

Someone please help! And let's get the ACLU OUT of this country!!

Jeremiah

Hear..hear Kahn!

Nate,
I don't need those lies!!!
__________________________________________________

Here...

naacd.com/blog

www.renewamerica.us/columns/benamon/060530

thewideawakes.org/archives/2006/10/25/aclus-bias-against-christianity/

www.nwitimes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?p=280119&sid=8fbcd876a91080ed2f7dab6bc72f5b44 -

www.longren.org/2006/02/23/aclu-cair-promoting-islam-while-suppressing-christians-jews/ -

www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?

Join the fight!!

Help get the word out!

Join 'STOP THE ACLU!!'

DEMOCRAT LIBERALS AND THE ACLU - ANTI-CHRISTIAN LAWYERS UNION, ARE DESTROYING AMERICA!!!

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

Jeremiah

Nate,

Yeah, You're right. What I should have said was, I need more sites/helpers to help shut the ACLU down!!!

I don't need sites claiming to be "for" the ACLU, They're just non-sense!! When all the proof necessary is out there that proves the ACLU is targeting Christians, and want to persecute them!!

They have distorted and twisted the Free Exercise Clause, and the Establishment Clause into what THEY would have it to mean, completely disregarding the American people in the process, with a passioned and PUTRED HATE for Christians.

So, We need to be working to lay the hammer down on these kooks!!

Bring me information, showing how to STOP the ACLU!!

Jeremiah

If they said it on fox news it MUST be true.

However, if they said it in one of Dr. Dumbass's posts, it must be unintelligible...

Oops, Correction:

I said: ""for" the ACLU"

I meant: "The ACLU for Christians"

Yes, I don't need sites, claiming the ACLU to be "for" Christians!

Now, That's better!

Jeremiah

I'm wondering what you mean by "left" since many of those positions are most certainly not positions of the Democratic party. Hillary Clinton for example wouldn't consider for a moment reducing military aid to Israel, and while in theory shes for a troop withdrawl, in practice she's for a troop withdrawl that would happen something like a dozen years in the future, long after her aspirational presidency. While they're reluctant to run the political risks of removing the affirmative action measures that already in place, they show no particular inclinate to impose new stricter ones. Reparations for slavery also get little love except upon a minority who happen to be descendants of slaves, even from more extreme than Democrat left-wingers. If Pelosi is left wing...well obviously she has little enthusiasm for the prospect of impeachment proceedings. And I don't think any American liberal wants Bush tried for war crimes. That's entirely the province of wild-eyed lunatics.