Mark I dont know why your so hung up on god adn church,whatever.But I certainly still respect it(you) and besides.But I guess it does NOT matter whether your cristian or whatever,but everyone will HAVE to realize that there are people and whole countries that HATE AMERICA,and if we dont supprot President George W. Bush,we wont probly even be around much longer.And no i'm not kidding to all the idiots!!!!!!!

PS to any "conservative" people here who like to say that I'm a "fake",whatever.I dont need you a***sholes to tell me how to think/say.Almiranta I'm looking at you!!!Maybe you need to find a better use of your time instaed of trying to bring down other b4bers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Ed. Note: This commenter has been banned due to racist slurs posted on other threads)

Rick,

Well, I don't think you are taking the meaning of my post the way I had hoped. I apologise - I guess I could have written it better.

It isn't so much a matter of being "hung up" on God, but, rather, a desire to get people to let go of their hatred - and do this letting go no matter how badly you think a person has offended you.

Mark, Hatred is a sad thing. It destroys not the intended but the unintended. Most likely, that being the person themselves. If a person disagrees with the President or any politician, that is understandable. However, if that disagreement become an obsession to smear and destroy someone,then it becomes destructive. I think that your point, that the public discource is and has become more uncivil as time has gone on. I think that there is nothing wrong with criticism of something you dont agree with, but there needs to be a modicum of restraint to avoid going into personal destruction.

Daniel,

And then we see our recently banned friend "Rick4Bush"...I thought the comment he made at the end was rather strong against Almiranta - a great commenter on the blog - and so I decided to have a look at past comments...a string of racist insults; probably designed to just be on the blog and then be picked out as evidence of alleged conservative racism - and I think the person has actually commented under several aliases...all that effort, just to spread hatred. Amazing!

I'm just tired of the venom and I'm going to make a concerted effort not to participate in it anymore.

Mark, interesting point, and I will agree with you on parts of it. Though I do believe you once said only a christian can truly feel love (sorry dont have an exact quote) and that would mean non christians only feel hatred.

anyway, the bit that caught my eye was:
There does, at least to me, seem to be a continuing deterioration of the human species - for all our wonderful technological achievements, we appear to be more coarse, more cruel, than any in the past save a few sadists like Tamerlane or Ghengis Khan.

I have to completely disagree. our culture as a whole has never been freer nor has it embraced those who are different from us so much, eg in the past women in most cultures (ok, all that I know of) were considered inferior to men, the concept of the lower classes voting was laughed at, it is no longer acceptable to hit a man in the middle of the street for his skin color. all in all I would say we hate far less than at anytime in the past (except maybe primitive man).

Mark, I have to say that I've noticed a change in you over the last several months -- an uneven one perhaps, but a change nonetheless.

I can't say I've never been motivated by hatred. In fact, when I was younger, that was my vice. Sort of, anyway. In other words, I was an angry young man. There was nothing I found more exhilarating than beating the crap out of someone. Unfortunately, I was rather successful at it. It took me years to realize that the person I was really fighting against, the person I most hated, was myself. My original anger may have been justified, I don't know for sure. But it definitely spiraled out of control. To this day, when I'm in a certain frame of mind, I can rationalize my past behavior by saying, "I never hurt someone who didn't deserve it." But that's a cop-out. The fact is, I didn't do what Jesus would have done. Jesus fought against ideas, not people. He loved everyone. And that's not just a Christian thing, it's more or less a universal idea. Hate the behavior, not the person. Even so, before you hate the behavior, you are compelled to understand the context in which it takes place. That, to me, is the true meaning of grace, from which true compassion springs. Grace, IMO, is the illuminated melding of heart, mind, and everything in between. It is an illumination that comes from outside yourself, but must be felt from within, and fully validated from within, before it has any meaning. You and I may never ultimately see eye to eye on every issue. After all, I'm on the same journey you are. But you seem to be on your way. In the mean time I can honestly say that I am true to myself. Can you say the same?

You don't have to answer to me, by the way. It's a question you have to answer to your Maker.

…that there is only a difference in degree between someone saying, for instance, that President Bush lied us into war and another person setting off a bomb in a house of worship. Both are acts not so much of war, but of hatred. By Mark Noonan at 12:45 AM

Mark your emotions are all screwed up. We don’t hate Bush because he lied us into a war. We feel betrayed. We expect our President, more so than Congressmen and Senators, to be honest with us. We expect our President to rebut critics with facts; not with dirty Nixon style tricks as was done with Joe Wilson. Lincoln was rebuked for suspending habeas corpus. We expect our President to follow precedent set by his predecessors. We would expect this President to understand the terrorist win in the long run if they get us to tinker with the Constitution based on short term gains. We lose our moral edge and status as the last great hope of mankind if we conduct pre-emptive wars and practice torture.

Bush had almost 90% approval rating after 911. Today according to a new American Research Group poll, just 25% of Americans approve of the way President Bush is handling his job as President and 71% disapprove. Numbers like this suggest his administration is totally ignoring the will of the people. Only in dictatorships and monarchs can one govern successfully with such low numbers.

No Mark I don’t hate Bush. I just have such love for this country that I along with 71% of Americans feel his policies and those of his Neocon advisors are doing great damage to the U.S and our children’s future. Every Constitutional means must be used to stop them. You should not see this as hate, but as the great workings of a democracy.

I am generally a pretty stoic person. I never really saw the point in getting emotional about anything. It doesn't do anything to solve any problems, and it only serves to make things worse. I guess that it's that lack of strong negative emotion that makes me not hate people. That being said, I think that spurious allegations of hate are mainly a tool of the hateful.

Another, "that being said," something written on an anonymous online forum probably doesn't accurately show a poster's true nature (though it could argued that the opposite is true).

Mark,

I fully agree, we must be staunch; in a stern approach against hatred. Hatred, by nature; defines the very concept of Evil.

Speaking for myself, It may seem to others, as to when I make a comment, that I hold hatred against the opposing views of Liberals on your site, To the contrary, that would not be the case -- I am extremely concerned for the well-being of mine, your's, and every other concerned citizen of this Great country that we live in.

My main concerns are - 1. For the future of the unborn - We cannot continue in this path we call -The Culture of Death, and expect God to bless our Nation, for God looks down with disdain for such Evil acts of horror being perpetrated on His people, the Life that He Created, for His purposes, not ours - We should do our best to please the eyes of the Almighty. If we show God that we love Him, then we will be in His favor. To think otherwise would be foolish.

2. I am concerned for the Traditional bonds of marriage, In correlation to this, some may think that I hate whenever I say the word - Sodomite - Make no mistake, friend, there can be no substitute, because, as I've formerly stated in this post, When we do, we are lacking the favor of Almighty God. Never forget! At God's choosing, He destroyed twenty-three thousand of them in one day...Could this happen today? Well, the bible tells us, that the last day is being reserved for them, so not very likely that he would, since God's work was finished on Golgotha, or Calvary, as we call it, and thusly, is giving them the oppurtunity to repent, and turn from their sin. Jesus bridged the seperatoin between man and God, in order that men might be redeemed, if they'll only ask, and not continue in sin. They must strive for perfection.

3. I am concerned for Civil Society as a whole, and that, If some kind of punishment is not taken in a responsible manner against murderers, rapists, kidnappers and such, we will be completely destroyed from within, which leads to the fact - That's why Jesus set up governments, so that authority is may presented as influence for means conducive to mannerly behavior.

Under the Socialist Liberals way - All acts of indecency, all the way from profanity to denying the holocaust, fall under "freedom of expression," and that my friend, is NOT good.

4. I am concerned for our safety from false religions(Ideologies), In example -- Islam within America, the more it continues to grow within our borders, would interrogate our still being the United States of America. The Pledge of Allegiance used to mean something, sadly no more.

5. I am concerned for the future of our Christian Heritage. Liberals, and the ACLU, they have only one premise in mind, to silence Christians for our beliefs, and persecute us.

So, to me, it's not so much hatred; it's a very concerning matter as to the well-being of our country as a whole, I want it to be a nice place to live, and not a place where Liberals can impose their prejudicial Social agenda on the entire population. They have done enough damage as it is, and it's only fitting that we stand up against their insane way of thinking, and be good stewards of God's great earth.

TY

Jeremiah

I don't hate; I detest. I detest every seminar blogger troll who comes here and repeats the lies their dear leaders tell them.

I'm considering a hiatus...

Mark,
I've never been a hater. I have a tendency to see the best in everyone, which helps me in my teaching. I give kids that other teachers give up on a second chance . Sometimes that is good, Sometimes it ends up kicking me in the rear. But it keeps me goinh.
One thing I've learned in life, is that it is harder to hate someone, the better you get to know them.
That said, I have a suggestion. How about once a week you run a nonpolitical thread. Maybe something like "What do you do to relax?", or "What were the 10 best movies of all time?" But no politics allowed.

I know what separates us, abortion, Iraq, gay marriage, what I would like to know is what brings us together, fishing, movies, sports? If you want to reduce the hate in the world, give us a chance to get to know each other.

keefer,
Hate is easy. There have been times on this blog, when I have come close to hating you. But then I thought, what's the point. All hating would do is raise my blood pressure. If I hate you, I can't learn from you. And sometimes you say things that give me a different insight.
BTW I only have two Dear Leaders: My wife of 32 years and my 3 year old granddaughter. LOL

what I would like to know is what brings us together

Posted by: Casper at July 24, 2007 09:07 PM

That would be a very interesting thing to find out, Casper. I hope Mark will consider it.

Plainjane, I feel a need to respond to one of your points. First, let me say I appreciate your open statement that you don't hate President Bush. I try hard not to hate those whom I disagree with, also. It can be hard when you feel they are misleading the public.

I believe that Mr. Bush never misled us re-garding Iraq. I followed his statements closely running up to our invasion in 2003. He acted on the intelligence he had, and the intelligence shared by every major power, the French, the British, the Russians, even the UN. He also acted upon a plan that was begun under the Clinton administration, which had been considered for several years, to overthrow Sadaam.

Get the book, "The Threatening Storm: the case for invading Iraq" published by Kenneth M. Pollack in 2002. Mr. Pollack served from 1999 to 2001 under Clinton as Director for Gulf Affairs on the National Security Council. He was the chief U.S. official responsible for our policy in Iraq - under Mr. Clinton! The action Mr. Bush authorized was not original with him.

I remember debating in my own mind the pros and cons of going into Iraq, before it actually happened. I remember weighing the President's words carefully, deciding, in the end, that he was in the best position to know and I would trust his judgment.

But within weeks after the invasion the press started reporting these charges, "Bush lied," "there are no WMDs!" I thought surely these people had a lapse of logic. Just because the intelligence may have been wrong doesn't mean Mr. Bush lied. Pretty soon I realized that truth was of no interest to these people. They hated Mr. Bush and would say anything to defame him. The same appears to be the case with the Joe Wilson affair. There was no dirty Nixon-style trick, unless it was on the part of Joe Wilson. Mr. Libby didn't leak anything. Read the trial transcripts. Most people, who do not read much below the headlines, are easily mis-led. It is our media and some politicians that have mis-led the nation.

In my opinion you have put entirely too much trust in sensationalism-oriented media and not enough in a President who has true integrity. No, he is not perfect. I do not agree with everything he has done. He has his weaknesses as a President.

But his enemies have successfully painted a portrait of him that has little to do with who he really is.

Go back and reconsider your assumptions, please. I believe some of them are just plain mistaken.

C.O,
Thanks for the support.
You know, we Americans are a strange breed. We call each other names on this blog and yet in daily life we seem to get along.

Casper,

Good idea - I'll try it this weekend.