If ever there was a justifiable reason for Jihad, it would be number 7. Popular culture degradation of public morality.

dearest markus listoramus:
you've got good points on your list
and your non concern for global warming is expected
what you should have in your top 10 is:
"stop poisoning your planet"
you may see it as a big deal but it's much larger than the warming
example? i recently drove across nebraska and stopped at a gas station. sign on the bathroom door says, don't drink the water, especially if you're under the age of 6
why?
nitrates.......you earthlings have poisoned your ground water with fertilizers.......makes sense....nebraska....heavy agriculture
you catch my drift?
a few extra degrees may not be so bad, but poisoning your food and water systems....that should be on your list
or are you not concerned?

nobody said that global warming is THE most important issue. It is certainly an important issue. But as long as you are adding issues how about:

1) neo-imperialism of the US
2) shameful state of health care in the US
3) religious persecution by religious zealots (Christian, Muslim, Jewish, etc..)
4) poor state of public education
5) poor state of social services

oh - thats right - if i dare criticize the US I must be a terrorist sympathizer. How does it go - "go USA, my country right or wrong"

I just read this article posted on RealClearPolitics. The subject of it is an analysis of Iran's internal oil demand versus its importance as an export commodity. It sounds like they could have some serious problems in store.

That article mentions this one, which suggests a way to hasten Iran's economic collapse: ease oil demand and precipitate a price attack. There are a variety of ways to do that, and the author has his favorites. But invariably, any policy would necessarily include a concentration on increasing efficiency and developing alternative sources -- and the more aggressively the better.

The take-home message there is that many of the exact same policies designed to reduce GHGs also have beneficial effects on national security.

Mark,

I think you James Dobson and John Hagee would have an identical list of priorities. Fortunately, the extreme, radical, fundementalist fringe right is losing their vice grip on the republican party (which just might save them from an elongated minority status). As an independent that used to lean republican, it was the growing influence of these ultra right wing christian fundementalists that pushed moderates like me away. It's sad how the republican party has veered so sharply to the right that republican moderates are criticised as being "republican in name only". I have similar issues with the democrats and the far left, but the risk with the radical right and their extreme anti-science platform, is that if they got their way, the US would be reduced to the laughing stock of the western world... much the way Kansas was ridiculed during the whole Intelligent Design fiasco.

Regarding the issue of global warming, if you are a believer as is Hagee in the literal truth of the book of Revelations, then there is no need to concern yourself with global warming... But if you have concern for the welfare of your children and grandchildren, then this issue should be a major concern. Overhyped or not, there is enough evidence to warrant a call to action.

kblack's anti-Americanism shines through, yet again. Where can WE get a copy of that Dictionary of Delusion you guys seem to depend on? Imperialism? You sure have a funny definition of that. I remember Powell making a speech once where he said that Americans have fought to defend freedom, at our great cost, all over the world, and all we have ever asked in return is a small patch of earth in which we can bury our dead.

Those graveyards the "empires" you are talking about, kblack? Because we have never "conquered" to own. Ever. I am surprised you don't choke on the stuff you cough up from that deep dark well of self-hatred---hating the American aspect of self, anyway.

The state of health care in the United States is excellent. Reasonably priced access to that health care is the problem. We have people coming here from around the world to take advantage of our superb health care, but we do need to address the problems of cost. I suggest that we start with the John Edwards of America,who have driven up insurance premiums for health care providers to such levels that many have just opted out of their professions.

Don't know of any reigious persecution by any Christians or any Jews or any etcs. Doesn't seem to be much of a problem, so I guess we can concentrate on the Muslims.

WOW!! A Lefty acknowledging the poor state of public education! And this is an easily solvable problem.

1. Get unions out of education.
2. Get competition into the educational arena, via vouchers.
3. Demand accountability, such as a minimum level of achievement for all grade levels.

As for the "poor state of social services" athe first step would be to reduce the dependence on those services, which would free them up to deal with real problems.

As for sniveling about imagined persecution for "criticizing the United States" I didn't see much along that line, just some complaints about some aspects of society. And a whole lot of paraoid loathing of the finest country in the world, one which he is free to leave at any time if he finds a better one.

kblack77,

Number ONE on your list... as expected, anti-Americanism!

And of course... anti-Christianism right near the top! I'm sure you threw in the Muslims, Jews, and those etceteras to cover and hide your anti-Christianism!

Poor state of social services? Take people off the welfare roles and put them to work. Stop all of the government subsidies and handouts and let them handle and PAY for their own social services. Stop paying more welfare for more welfare babies for people already on welfare!

Poor state of public education? Get the liberals out of our schools. Get those school vouchers going so parents can take their children our of your liberal indoctrination centers and teach them what they want their kids to learn... not your liberal biased social engineering and anti-Americanism agenda! Contract out some or all of the remaining public schools (what's left after the vouchers clean them up) to reduce costs and improve the quality of education!

Healthcare? Stop those DEMOCRAT supported lawsuits that are bankrupting America's healthcare and medical system and sending American jobs overseas! Your Democrats like Edwards are the problem! Next, take people off welfare, put them to work and make them pay for their own healthcare and insurance. Take your grubby hands out of the pockets of the taxpayer demanding they pay all of your give-a-ways! Stop providing free emergency and medical care to illegal aliens. Send them back to their country where the healthcare is much cheaper and "better" than that in America!

Or the best solution... You could move to Canada or France and enjoy their socialism and continue to trash America from their soil!

AAR

Good article Ricorun. I have read some similar ones of late. I really don't think the mullahs in Iran can hang on much longer. The worst thing we could do right is to attack them and give the whole country a common enemy.

Mark,
"2. Anti-religious persecution." Wow, things must be bad in your part of Las Vegas. I haven't experienced any prosecution here in Wyoming nor have I heard of any. I also didn't notice any when I attended church with my brother-in-law in Vegas a year ago.

kblack77,
"4) poor state of public education" How is it that our terrible public education system has managed to educate the workers of the most powerful economy in the world? For that matter, how is it that most of the members of our armed forces have managed to excel with a public school education?

Almiranta,

Good to see you posting today.

You're right about "kblack77's" anti-Americanism shining brightly today, but that's what those liberal colleges do to a person! I don't know why those who dislike America don't just leave so the rest of us can enjoy things more!

AAR

casper - not everything about the public education system in the US is bad. There are some really great public schools and teachers. The problem is that education - compared to other industrialized nations - is underfunded in the US. To wit: there is a high statistical correlation between school funding and performance in this country. I went to a "rich" public school which was excellent - one of the top 10 in the state. However, city schools in poorer areas are underfunded and it shows. I certainly think it can be improved.

no sorry

pointing out that some of the US's foreign policy is imperialistic is not anti-american. What is anti-american is your insistence that I should be banned for merely suggesting that some american foreign policies are bogus. What is unamerican is accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being a terrorist sympathizer. What is unamerican is your refusal to allow dissidence with this administration without accusing people of treason. What is unamerican is your way of life

"Because we have never "conquered" to own. Ever."
Almiranta,
So where did the other 37 states in our country come from? In reality, all of our country was taken from other people, either by conquest or treaty. That doesn't make us good or bad, as there is hardly a piece of land on earth hasn't changed hands via conquest several times.

Lenny,

From what I understand, you never get out of life alive - and over the past 25 years I've just seen too many of the "chemical X causes cancer" scares turn out to be bogus. There is a curious thing about what human beings do - we don't make anything new. Yep, all those chemicals so horrible for life? All of them are made up of materials found in the natural world - plus or minus, I don't think they're going to kill us all.

Kblack:

"What we're facing now is a crisis that is by far the most serious we've ever faced" - Al Gore, March 21, 2007

..."taking on the highest challenge of our generation" - Al Gore, September 18, 2006

"The climate crisis offers us the chance to experience what few generations in history have had the privilege of experiencing: a generational mission; a compelling moral purpose; a shared cause; and the thrill of being forced by circumstances to put aside the pettiness and conflict of politics and to embrace a genuine moral and spiritual challenge." - Al Gore, July 2, 2007

You were saying?

CAIndie,

Who is Hagee? I've heard of James Dobson - a very kindly man who works to strengthen families, but I've never heard of the Hagee fellow.

I also don't formulate my opinions based upon a concern for how others will view them. I do try to express my opinions in a manner designed to smooth over rough spots, but my actual opinions are arrived at after thinking them over, and then I adhere to them unless additional facts tend to controvert the original opinion. The facts don't back up any contention that a warmer planet will be an ecological catastrophe.

Casper,

There are Christians around the world who are sitting in jail for the mere fact of being Christian; there are Christians who are martyred every year - very large numbers of them, and all of them would have been spared had they denied Christ. This is real religious persecution, and it is happening right now, as I type these words - it is happening in China, Nigeria, Indonesia, Vietnam and a host of other nations around the world. This, to me, is a bit more important than whether or not polar bears will be discomfited.

Oh Mark-

Let me handle your points one at a time...

1. Winning the War on Terrorism.

Despite my problems with the terminology "War on Terrorism" being a political ploy, its reasonable. I think that we should sanction Saudi Arabia for spreading Wahabbism throughout the middle east... what say you to that? Bush sure won't do it.

2. Anti-religious persecution.

Persecution or a lack of favoritism? If you're talking about school prayer, "Pray in church; learn in school." I don't see how that's so hard to understand. Before you throw (or Jeremiah the lemming, of anyone else) a bunch of accusations about teaching satanism or some tripe, see if you can back it up with credible links. How can religions be persecuted when faith based organizations receive federal funding?

3. Abortion/infanticide/euthanasia.

Abortion, well, I don't think that it's horrible in the first trimester, afterwards it's horrible. Better in a sterile hospital than in an alley with a wire hanger (or in the bathroom with bleach, which actually happens quite often with children of conservatives), though. Infanticide is wrong... killing a post natal child is disgusting. Euthanasia: are you restricting this to Dr. Assisted suicide, or do you include not keeping people alive artificially for financial reasons? Bush signed the latter in to law in Texas...

4. Spread of disease.

Oddly enough, this can be stopped to a great degree by battling global warming. Shifting climate patterns allow disease bearing pests to live in more areas, causing the diseases themselves to spread more rapidly.

5. Slavery, especially the global traffic in sex slavery which almost invariably involves children.

This we agree on.

6. Third world poverty.

This we also agree on.

7. Popular culture degradation of public morality.

Darn that freedom of speech! Do you want to legislate away offensive speech? Was Janet Jackson's nipple really that offensive (not that everyone else in the world also has nipples)?

8. Family breakup.

Would you define this? Do you mean divorce in general, or are you going to blame this on gays?

9. Nuclear proliferation in tyrannical States.

Another thing we can agree on. That's why we went to war with North Korea, right? Oh wait... we went to war with Iraq, which didn't have nukes, instead of North Korea, which does...

10. The rise of Chinese imperialism.

I don't really see how they've been imperialist recently... They haven't expanded their territory since Tibet, I think. If your talking about economic imperialism, then you have the trade policies of Both Bushes, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, and Nixon to blame for that. Did you know that our military uniforms are made over there? Kind of makes you think...

Now, my "top ten" would, likewise, not include Global Warming, but a couple of them would probably help on that front.

My ten:

1.) Stemming the spread of hate-filled, fundamentalist religious ideologies.
2.) Reducing industrial and automobile pollution.
3.) Poverty and famine
4.) Technological progress to free world industry of oil and nuclear energy
5.) Reforming education (we only make "workers" when we need to make more "critical thinkers")
6.) WMD proliferation (nuclear, chemical, biological)
7.) Raising the bar for political discourse.
8.) Eliminating the death penalty except for cases of High Treason and Crimes Against Humanity
9.) Full Federal funding for medical and scientific research
10.) Improving the overall health of people (obesity, diseases, cancer, etc).

I probably should have taken more time to think about it, but whatever... it seems good to me.

Rana,

Well, you know us conservatives - we blame everything on gays. Heck, when I have a bad day at work, I call up a gay friend and blame him for it...

Geesh! Some times you guys on the left do go on like a broken record.

At any rate, to take some of your points:

You were writing your comment as I was writing my last, so I forgive you for your flippancy on the matter of religious persecution. But while you on the left are on and on about how gay people are oppressed in America because they can't marry, real oppression is happening in other parts of the world...they are beheading people for being gay, and for being Christian, as it were. If we are to fight oppression, then let us fight oppression - not legal inconvenience.

If you want some information on the persecution of Christians around the world, then go here:

http://www.persecution.org/suffering/index.php?PHPSESSID=280bb55558aa52cc22a1465230026526

Jews suffer persecution, too, but as most Jews live in the west or is Israel, there isn't as much persecution of Jews as there once was. Moslems, as far as I can tell, suffer no persecution anywhere on the globe.

As regards the popular culture degradation - it is something we need to concern ourselves with; you want critical thinkers? Well, you're not going to get enough of them as long as popular culture is allowed to wallow in the sewers. Our biggest problem in this area is that popular culture allows people to think they know things - and they make decisions based upon the false information provided by popular culture. We don't want a censorship bureau, but we do want the responsible people to take charge and force a change in the trash which is put out by the entertainment industry.

Family breakup as been ongoing for a long time - and to make you feel better, it was capitalism which struck the first blows against family unity. Society is not a collection of individuals - it is a collection of groups; families, clubs, churches, etc. And the primary group is the family - by breaking up the family, we are breaking up society and allowing ourselves to be easy prey for various tyrants who will have easy access to us as we stand naked in the public square. This is far more serious than fool comments about gays - this is crucial to the continued existence of free people.

The spread of disease is caused by a lot of things, but one of the most depressing spectacles over the past 30 years has been our banning of DDT - without an ounce of science to back up the ban; meanwhile, millions are sickened and die of diseases which would be prevented if we just sprayed a little DDT. We are allowing political ideology to trump good science - another disheartening example of this was how we dealt with AIDS initially.

A century of experience had taught us how to deal with infectious diseases for which there was no cure and of which we knew little - quarantine the victims, and trace everyone they were in contact with in order to warn them of their peril and, as appropriate, quarantine them, too. What did we do? We passed laws which prohibited quarantine and the tracing of contact persons...we allowed hundreds of thousands to die because it as politically more important to make a political point. Nauseating - but all too common as we deal with disease these days.

Mark,
Sorry, I thought you were referring to religious persecution within the U.S. As for your other points, I would agree with most of them, although I would probably use a different terminology for a couple.

And just out of curiosity, if our schools and colleges are filled with all of these liberals, why do they continue to produce all these conservatives?

Mark, very surprised you haven't heard of John Hagee considering the size of his ministry and his national appeal.

http://www.jhm.org/

Rana,

The primary trouble we have to deal with in school, is that group of individuals who call themselves - (Atheists), teaching our chilren that garbage they call - (Evolution), and if you want to get into the specifics of the matter, Yes, Indeed, It IS Satanic debauch!! If not destroyed, it will soon lead to the decay of our Nation!! If it hasn't already!! Such grotesque insanity, is that garbage evolution, thrown in the face of fresh and capable minds!!

And to top it all off, is the sick tripe that is taught to the children is the left wings presumption that it is "ok" to have sex before marriage, with whomever you please, whenever you please. Listen, Boulder City High, has got a LOT to answer for, friend, and everyone else who has committed this horrible act of disgrace! AND THEY WILL CAUSE GRIEF AND BLOOSHED, BECAUSE THE CHILDREN ARE BEING LED INTO DEPRAVITY LIKE NO OTHER, COMPLETELY RUINING THEIR CHANCE OF A FUTURE!!!!!!

IF YOU LIBERALS DON'T LIKE IT BECAUSE THE FOUNDERS WERE GOD FEARING MEN, AND THAT THEY STAKED THEIR LIVES, FORTUNE, AND FUTURE FOR THIS COUNTRY THROUGH THE HOPE THAT ONLY JESUS CHRIST CAN GIVE, AND THAT THEY MEANT THIS FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS TO COME, THEN YOU CAN JUSTGET OOOOOOOUT!!

THIS IS AMERICA, FRIEND, THIS NOT FRANCE OR THE SOVIET EMPIRE OF EVIL, THIS - IS - AMERICA!!

CHRIST FIRST, COUNTRY SECOND!!!

Jeremiah

Jeremiah,
I am a fifth generation teacher. Most of us are Christian. Many of us are leaders in our churches. We don't always agree with what is being taught, but we do the best we can. I don't teach evolution, because I don't teach science, but I have friends who believe in Christ who also believe in evolution. I don't know any teachers who teach Satanic debauch. If you don't like what is being taught in this country then move. THIS - IS - AMERICA!!

Casper,

Are you an American? Or were you educated in 77IQ's public schools?

Have you ever heard of the Louisiana Purchase? No? Let me edijimacate ya. Ya see, way back in '03, that would be 1803, we (that would be the U S of A) bought some property from the French. About 828,000 square miles of property. Over a period of years, as the territory filled up with people, we made states out of the territories. About nine of them, and parts of several others.

Then there was the Treaty with Great Britain after the Revolutionary War (that was the war we found with Great Britain to gain our independance). Great Britain ceded just about all the territory east of the Mississippi, except Florida. That resulted in the addition of 12 additional states.

So between the land ceded by Great Britain and the Louisiana Purchase, we added about 21 states to the original 13. When you reach the 6th grade, they will teach about how we acquired the rest of our territories.

found = fought

A-10,
Are you an American? Or did you just not listen during sixth grade history? Have you heard of the Lakota, the Crow, or the Mandans. Those were the people living in the Louisiana Purchase when we bought it from France. Do you think they just gave up their land for nothing?
As for the land we picked up from Great Britain, did you think there wasn't anyone there? Have you ever heard of the Trail of Tears where thousands of peaceful Native Americans were forced to move to Oklahoma.
BTW, I teach sixth grade. If you want to learn about American history, I might have an opening.

A-10,
And just so you know, I still think this is the greatest country in the history of the world. But that doesn't mean we can't get better and if we don't take responsibility for our past, we can't become even better.

Casper,

You better learn fast while you're young, and when Daddy takes your hand, he'll look you in they eye, and say 'One day, you'll understand, Son'

Jeremiah

Mark, in your response to Rana above, please elaborate on this quote, " We don't want a censorship bureau, but we do want the responsible people to take charge and force a change in the trash which is put out by the entertainment industry." How, if not by censorship, would you achieve this? In the 1930's we had the Hayes code which dictated what was morally acceptable in movies... is this a the sort of thing you are referring to as a method of "taking charge?".

Jeremiah: Casper, You better learn fast while you're young, and when Daddy takes your hand, he'll look you in they eye, and say 'One day, you'll understand, Son'

Normally I leave you alone, but this comment is just sooooo funny in so many different ways!

Jeremiah,
Was there a point to that? If there is, I guess i just didn't get it.

The socialist cabal wish to solve the Global Warming problem by converting the world to Enviro-fundementalism and destroying the economy of the US.

Muslim Fundementalists wish to solve the Global Warming problem by converting the world to Islam, destroying the US economy, and returning the world to the sixth century.

...and the difference is????

Was there a point to that?

Casper,

Yes, What you're telling me is a bunch of hogwash!

"but I have friends who believe in Christ who also believe in evolution"

If they believe in evolution, let me ASSURE you, They're NOT your friends, and they're NOT Christians!
Why? Because evolution defies the very precepts of Christianity! True Christians place Faith in a Loving and Omnipetent Creator, Who placed the earth in perfection!!

If you're a teacher, who does not teach evolution, and one who presumes yourself a Christian, then why call those who do believe in evolution your "friends"?

You see, when you tell me, you're a Christian who has evolution friends, Something does'nt add up!

Have you gone to your Christian Brothers and Sisters, and corrected them on such matters? If not, You need to do so by all means!! Because they are placing their faith in the wrong places, and are doubting an Omnipetent Creator, and that, my friend, sets the standard for Dangerous grounds for their Eternal Soul!!

We must place FULL FAITH in the Lord Our God!
Just a short time ago, I wrote about the account of Simon Peter to another one of the pinhead Liberals who posted here. I'm sure you've read the account many times, When he began to doubt, he started to sink in the water, What does the account of Peter tell you, Friend?
IF YOU DON'T HAVE COMPLETE FAITH, YOU WILL DIE, DIE SPIRITUALLY!!
So that would translate into this - If I am in doubt the second before I die, that means I'm going to Hell!!
Ya see? Also, It takes more faith for an Atheist to live, than it does for a Christian, Ya know why? Because the Atheist is still searching for the answer, the Christian on the other hand, has already found THE answer, the ONLY answer, my friend!!
And all it takes is 'Faith, the size of a mustard seed'. But ther can be NO DOUBT whatsoever in your mind!

Is it possible that you're still searching, Casper?

There are literally hundreds of examples for us in this world that point to Christ, One, Is your parents, Casper, Your parents helped to give you a beginning, they raised you to know right from wrong, until it was time for you to go, then it is up to you to decide what is right from wrong, If you took their advice, then you will do good, If not, then tragedy most usually awaits!

Think of those kids whos parents tried to teach them not to use drugs and alcohol, How many young boys and girls have lost their lives for not listening to their parents! I know too many, What a shame! Their whole entire lives ahead of them!!

And their are those who go on to make outstanding career choices, and live a successful life!!

Those are the examples, Casper, which say the same about what we are like as individuals, For example, for those who choose to take the path of sin, they will die indefinitely forever, which indentifies to those who disobeyed their parents, and tragedy as a result.

And there are those who say 'Thank you Lord for your Sacrifice on the Cross, please come into my life, I want to live for you' which would indentify with those who OBEYED their parents!

Those are hypothetical situations, but they are the truth in correlation to each other!

The REAL answers are in God's Word, Casper!

So what was my point? You need to listen to your Father in Heaven, And He will guide you through the most Awesome and Happy life that you could ever have!!

And do this will ya - Stay away from the KOOK DEMOCRAT SITES!! They are the most apathetic bunch I've ever seen, they spout this "tolerance" garbage, and that's part of the reason you believe the way you do on matters your friends who believe in evolution, You believe "we should be tolerant" of any and all who believe differently, But what you don't realize, is that's the crux of the matter, If we tolerate everyone who believes differently, America begins to stray from its foundation, which rests upon the Word of Almighty God!

When you stray from His Word, Morality deteriorates RAPIDLY! Thusly, resulting in all the problems that Mark has mentioned above, and more!!

BE STRONG, BE VIGILANT, BUT ABOVE ALL, REMAIN TRUE TO THE LORD!!!!

Jeremiah

CAIndie,

Our first step would be to stop running for cover whenever the entertainment industry shouts "censhorship" when called on the filth they pour out. Our second step is to understand that the entertainment industry is, well, an industry - we're not talking about brave souls taking their lives in their hands to propose a new and radical line of thinking in opposition to conventional wisdom...we're talking about people who use sex and violence to glue the un-educated to the television in order to make money selling advertising space. Somehow, I just can't compare "Sex and the City" with "Common Sense"...

The entertainment industry isn't trying to expand human horizons - they are just trying to make bags of money. Nothing, per se, wrong with that, but as it is just a bit of money-grubbing, it falls outside of a strict matter of censorship when we say that they need to clean up their act - or have it cleaned up for them, if they don't catch our drift.

One idea I've turned over in my head for some time is a "sex and violence tax" - essentially, we just whack them with punitive taxes each time they show an act of violence or a sex act on screen (television or movie, it doesn't matter). This doesn't prevent a true artist from using sex and violence in a movie...but it would make the nauseating displays of violence as we see in those "slasher" flicks prohibitively expensive; and good riddance to bad rubbish. Of course, you would mostly try to threaten such a thing - the whole purpose of an effort to curb this nonsense is to get the industry to clean up and police itself.

What do we care if they were putting on hard core pornography at 1am? Not much - but we do care if there is just a lot of violence at 8pm; we're trying to get less of the trash, not necessarily eliminate it altogether; and we're especially trying to shield the most impressionable among us - the children - from a steady diet of glorified violence and cheap sexuality.

Mark,

You have a way with the vague posts that are easy to refute. Is it intentional? Considering that they are the same posts that get the most responses, I would consider it a pretty ingenious traffic-getting scheme.

If they believe in evolution, let me ASSURE you, They're NOT your friends, and they're NOT Christians!

Posted by: Jeremiah at July 8, 2007 01:03 AM

You can't possibly want us to believe that ALL Christians are brain dead, Jeremiah. There must be a certain number who take the opportunity to be informed in world history and science.

By the way, Jeremiah, it's a good thing that you are part of the 'conservative group' who post here. Keefer has said he gives y'all a pass when it comes to grammatical mistakes and spelling errors; lucky for him. If your comments to Casper had been posted by a member of the 'liberal group', poor old keefer would be in cardiac arrest by now. You're giving the cause a bad name, Jeremiah.

I'm still not convinced that you are the real deal. You are either, one hell of a satirist, or, a tragic example of religious ignorance, intolerance and backwoods mentality.

"If they believe in evolution, let me ASSURE you, They're NOT your friends, and they're NOT Christians!"

Jeremiah,
I don't pick my friends based on a single belief. I also don't feel that I nor anyone else alive can tell someone whether or not he or she is a Christian. That is between each person and God.

That said, you might consider expanding your own horizons a little. One of the things I like about this blog is that Mark allows people with people with a lot of different viewpoints to post here. I like seeing what other people think even if I don't agree with many of them on some of the issues. If you are only around people who agree with you, you are never exposed to any new ideas. If you are open you can learn from anyone. I've learned from Mark, kblack77, Kahn, keefer, ricorun, you, and many others on this blog. You can to if you want to.

ZERO tolerance, CO!

ZERO tolerance, Casper!!

And I would put my finger in your face any day, and tell you all about it!!

Jeremiah

Jeremiah,
I feel sorry for someone so filled with hate. I will pray for you.

Jeremiah,

Two words: De Caff

read on, Mark

You know that DDT was linked to the decline of the Bald Eagle, right? Why do you hate Bald Eagles?

About the Entertainment industry... Speech is speech, whether it be political, religious, or meant for entertainment. That pesky little First Amendment gets in the way of getting rid of stuff that offends you. If you want to get rid of it, get people to stop patronizing it. If you want to protect children, get their parents to restrict TV viewing and put situations in context for them. Don't expect the government to do what the parents should be doing.

About religious persecution, I thought that you were referring to inside of the US. However, I think that most persecution would stop if number 2 of my list were implemented, seeing as how much religious persecution is performed by more fundamentalist religious groups.

I would like some explanation on how we would stop the breaking up of families. I've noticed lots of friction between parents and children that shouldn't be there; how do you suppose we stop that? (Oh, about the snarky comment about gays, you guys do blame the gays for a lot of things that are out of their control... Jerry Falwell went so far as to blame them for 9/11).

I agree with your sentiment about quarantines... a certain incident comes to mind with that guy and TB that happened recently. However, if you read the article that I cited earlier in this comment, you will see that there is scientific evidence to ban DDT (hell, how good can it be if mosquitoes are becoming immune to it).

"I feel sorry for someone so filled with hate."

Casper,

Yeah, You THINK "hate," So what about the Jihadists, Casper?
Do they not hate?

What do they want to do? Do they want to sit down, and tell you what is best for you, and your country, as I have tried to explain to you?

What do the Jihadists usually do to those who differ on opinion?

Jeremiah

Yeah, Ricorun, I hated to break it to ya, but yes I do like those old Creedence Revival group songs, One of them got me to thinking!

Also, they're unlike your average Kook Liberal lyrics of today, with every profanity imaginable in them! The KOOKS have ruined our society as a whole, in music and everything!!

Jeremiah

If ignorance is bliss, than Jeremiah sure is one happy camper...

Casper-

You really learned something from keefer?

Rana,
I learned to be more careful with my grammar and spelling when posting on this blog. Once in a while, when he isn't just insulting people, he will say something that makes me think, as do you.
The thing I like about this blog is that I have to really think through my own positions before responding to someone else's. It has also given me insight as to why people are still supporting Bush after all the mistakes he has made. Granted, there is a lot of name calling on this site, but every once in a while there are some very well thought out posts that make me think.

Jeremiah,

Yes, the jihadists hate. They're the scum of the earth. We would be better off if they all just vanished. But so far you're doing an exemplary job of recreating yourself in their image, rather than in Christ's.

and, other than whining publicly and endlessly about it, what have YOU done about any of those things?

DDT linked to the decline of Bald Eagles? Yet another myth that needs to be laid to rest.

http://www.junkscience.com/ddtfaq.htm#ref7

Krantz WC. 1970 (No correlation between shell-thinning and pesticide residues in eggs) Pesticide Monitoring J 4(3): 136-141; Postupalsky, S. 1971. Canadian Wildlife Service manuscript, April 8, 1971 (No correlation between shell-thinning and DDE in eggs of bald eagles and cormorants); Anon. 1970. Oregon State University Health Sciences Conference, Annual report, p. 94. (Lowest DDT residues associated with thinnest shells in Cooper's hawk, sharp-shinned hawk and goshawk); Claus G and K Bolander. 1977. Ecological Sanity, David McKay Co., N.Y., p. 461. (Feeding thyreprotein causes hens to lay lighter eggs, with heavier, thicker shells)

Rana,

In your link, the first reference is Carlson's "Silent Spring" - book which has long been debunked as junk science; yep, that's it - the first work of the modern environmentalist movement was a bunch of nonsense put out by a woman who didn't know what she was talking about...and this is oh, so very common in environmental writing. Good to keep in mind that I was alive when the environmentalist movement was predicting mass starvation around the world in 1974.

Now, don't get me wrong - I bought the nonsense, too. It seemed sensible - the human population was "exploding"; chemicals are, well, chemicals and they are the same things used in chemical warfare, and thus must be bad; look how polluted the Hudson River is in NY City...hook, line and sinker I bought it all...but then we didn't starve and the birds didn't all die out and we were alive and well in 1980...

Most of what is written about the environment is nonsense put out by people who don't know, but who do have a distinct politico-economic axe to grind.

Yo

Once a common sight in much of the continent, the bald eagle was severely affected in the mid-twentieth century by a variety of factors, among them thinning of egg shells, attributed to the use of the pesticide DDT. While DDT itself was not lethal to the bird, it made an eagle either sterile or unable to lay healthy eggs: the eagle would ingest the chemical through its food and then lay eggs that were too brittle to withstand the weight of a brooding adult. By the 1950s there were only 412 nesting pairs in the 48 contiguous states of the USA.

Rana,

And, just to let you know, Wikipedia isn't really the best source of info...it is the place where if something isn't true, you can go and make it true.

that's right Rana. You should be going to Mark Noonan for all your science advice. He (probably) passed at least two high school science courses. He doesn't take any crap and doesn't fall for "evolution" or "global warming". According to him quantum mechanics is simple and relativity doesn't quite explain everything. When is your next science book coming out Mark - mindless robots await eagerly...

LOL

Mark is assumes issues are nice discrete and disconnected from each other except that ....

A CIA report states that global warming and subsequent climate change will directly exasperate/contribute to problems of #4 & #6 and could indirectly impact other of those issues

"Yes, the jihadists hate. They're the scum of the earth."

Yes, That's right! and so what I was trying to get across to Casper, was, he thinks I'm "filled with hate" for trying to tell him that God is Our Foundation. So I'll ask you the same question, except in another way, Since we know the terrorists are hate filled to the core and want to kill us, Are we to tolerate those kinds of people??
And yet, he thinks I hate him, What's up with that? for crying out loud!!
Listen, I only want what is best for our country, but I can tell you here and now, that it's not being tolerant of those religion who want to kill us!!!!!!!!!!
THIS IS CHRISTIAN AMERICA, FOUNDED UPON THE WORK OF ALMIGHTY GOD, OUR ROCK AND OUR SAVIOR!!
To be a REAL man, you must stand up for Jesus Christ, and oppose the ideoligical idiots, i,e. kooks!

"We would be better off if they all just vanished."

You'd be happy then would'nt you? No, I don't think you would, you would still want to abolish Christianity from the public square!

"But so far you're doing an exemplary job of recreating yourself in their image, rather than in Christ's."

Now how am I doing that? Is it because I don't embrace the murderous ideology of Muslims terrorists? Tell me...

Jeremiah

Jeremiah,
I don't think you hate me. I'm just worried about the amount hate you carry around.

"I'm just worried about the amount hate you carry around."

No need to worry there, friend, I'm more concerned for your Eternal Soul!

Plus, The Souls of those who believe in evolution!

And for Our Nation, as a whole!

As it is, The bedrock of our society is crumbling, right before our very own eyes, All because the concept of Liberalism wishes to undermine our Christian Heritage, through a Hate-filled Bigotry for Christians, and that's all!!

How Sad!!

Jeremiah

Mark,

You do know science is based on facts and not faith right?

Then how come from global warming to evolution to even that stupid quibble about wikipedia you just made, isn't based on any facts????

Do you think that just because your highnest Mr. President 26% uses faith instead of science then its OK if you do

-LOL
MARK - proved wrong yet again

Wikipedia comes close to Britannica in terms of the accuracy of its science entries, a Nature investigation finds.

http://www.nature.com/news/2005/051212/full/438900a.html

Casper,

That isn't hate - it is proclaiming Christ; something Christians have a duty to do.

As it turns out, I brought up religious persecution in the thread, and then some of our leftwing critics used the opportunity to launch attacks on Christianity; now Christianity is being defended. Sounds fair to me.

Now, as to how brother Jeremiah proclaims Christ - he clearly burns with zeal for the faith; I do, too, but I am, perhaps, less advanced in my walk with Christ and consequently less sure of myself in such proclamations. Also, as a Catholic, we tend to do that sort of thing in a more subtle way - trusting that the Holy Spirit will do most of the work for us. And so:

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. Which one of you would hand his son a stone when he asks for a loaf of bread, or a snake when he asks for a fish? If you then, who are wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give good things to those who ask him. - Matthew 7:7-11

If that were read in Church, then the thing said after it would be, "the Word of the Lord", and the congregation would then respond, "praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ."

All you have to do is ask. Really - and you'll get everything you need.

neo,

Lets just say that a publication dedicated to environmental alarmism doesn't impress me as an impartial judge as to the accuracy of Wikipedia, especially in matters of science.

It should be kept in mind that on such an online encylopedia, I was once identified as the son of Peggy Noonan - though she would have had to have been 14 when I was born; plus the easily discoverable fact that her son was born in 1987, when I was 22.

And you make a very typical liberal/left error when you assert that science and faith are divergent rather than complementary.

Jeremiah,

I assure you, we can focus on more than one form of religious oppression at a time. It's not either-or; I can reject Christian fundamentalism and Islamic fundamentalism in one fell swoop. Fundamentalism is fundamentalism. We prosecute people for assault and battery, and we prosecute them for murder. Regardless of how bloodthirsty, maniacal, and evil the terrorists are, it does not provide a justification for your own particular breed of insanity.

"Since we know the terrorists are hate filled to the core and want to kill us, Are we to tolerate those kinds of people??"

Nope. Not at all. Go find me one prominent liberal arguing that terrorists are model individuals. Our argument has consistently been that a religion is what people make of it, and we tolerate the religion, but not the destructive behavior it can occasionally produce. But you're the terrorist's best friend, given that the number of terrorists has sharply increased since 9/11 according to the CIA's own analysis. Guess what? When you say things like,

"I only want what is best for our country, but I can tell you here and now, that it's not being tolerant of those religion who want to kill us!!!!!!!!!!"

It doesn't typically provoke good reactions from the adherents of that religion. Why do you think the "US is evil" storyline gets so much mileage over there? You're a disgrace to this country. By the way, it would have taken 11 exclamation points to convince me. 10 just makes you seem like a nutjob. Real adults don't type in capslock either, buddy.

"No, I don't think you would, you would still want to abolish Christianity from the public square!"

I don't know how many times it has to be drilled into your head. We don't oppose expression of religion. Far from it. We're just quite uneasy when the church tries to sink its claws into the government, which is supposed to be neutral between its citizens. And who can blame us for being distrusting, when you say absurd things like,

"THIS IS CHRISTIAN AMERICA, FOUNDED UPON THE WORK OF ALMIGHTY GOD, OUR ROCK AND OUR SAVIOR!!"

Which is such a laughable statement that I can only say: No. But I think The Treaty of Tripoli, authored in 1796, can speak to the truth better than I can. After all, it was approved by John Adams (he was a founding father, in case you forgot) while he was President.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

And there is that unfortunate part of the Constitution which claims that treaties help to form the supreme law of the land. The rule of law has always been a little tricky for you fundamentalists, hasn't it? Admittedly, many of the founding fathers were devout Christians. Luckily, they were also wiser men than you and saw the danger of a government founded on one religion. Thank god for men who saw government as devoted to good governance, and not their own personal ideological platform.

Now go read a book before you come back and make another post. Or to translate for you,

"NOW GO READ A BOOK BEFORE YOU COME BACK AND MAKE ANOTHER POST!!!!!!!!!!"

Another urban myth surfaces: Article 11 of the Tripoli Treaty. The treaty was originally written in Arabic, and the phrase including "not in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" was inserted into the English translation by John Barlow; the notorious phrase does not appear in the original Arabic version.

http://www.tektonics.org/qt/tripoli.html

John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court said: "Providence has given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

Justice Joseph Story, who was appointed to the US Supreme Court by President Madison, said in an 1829 speech at Harvard: "There never has been a period of history, in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying at its foundation." Story wrote several respected treatises or Commentaries on Constitutional Law, in which are found the following: "Probably, at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, and of the [First] Amendment...the general, if not the universal, sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the State so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience and the freedom of religious worship. Any attempt to level all religions, and to make it a matter of state policy to hold all in utter indifference, would have created universal disapprobation, if not universal indignation."
"The real object of the First Amendment was not to countenance, much less to advance Mohammedanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by prostrating Christianity, but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects and to prevent any national ecclesiastical patronage of the national government".

markie mark
you're a crazy earthling
because you think your planets ecosystem revolves around humans
sorry......you're wrong
and your flippant answer to nitrates in your drinking water system proves it

i would have more respect for you if you just admitted it's a bad thing...it's a terrible thing actually
if it's not so bad....then just liberally drink the water even though your own govt tells you not to.......

"Real adults don't type in capslock either, buddy.

Ooooh, but you see, you don't understand, you don't understand how upset and angry I get, to see a bunch of Liberal kooks ruining our great country!

There's no possible amount of words, or ways, to express, on this computer screen!!

As to your other talking points...

...I'll get back with you later on today.

Jeremiah

Mark,

Oh self professed blogger, believer and staunch supporter in the ways of President 26%.

An impartial opinion from you on somebody elses impartiality? .... ROFLMAO

"I assure you, we can focus on more than one form of religious oppression at a time. It's not either-or; I can reject Christian fundamentalism and Islamic fundamentalism in one fell swoop."

Ah, But you are sadly mistaken, my friend. You may reject Islamic fundamentalism, but NEVER the fundamentals of Christianity; to reject Judeo-Christianity, Is to reject God. You say "but that takes away my choice?" No, friend, You make that coice every day, that choice dictates your afterlife, every second of a human beings existence is another possible step into Eternity, It will be either of two ways - When it is time for you as an individual to make the Journey, then you will stand before the Almighty Judge, Or, as God has plainly stated to us in His Word - 'Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, the coming day of the Lord' which will be Great Judgement day for All, That's the day, friend, when the bible says -'The rocks will cry out' because of those who will be dreadfully lost, and burn in a Devil's Hell, for Eternity, continuous darkness, they will be tormented, day and night, Forever and Ever!

"Fundamentalism is fundamentalism."

You may take that position, friend, But it will never take away the fact, God is God, That there IS a Heaven and a Hell, that there is a RIGHT way; the Christian way, Friend!!

You see, You can't just lump True born again Christians and the blood thirsty tyrants that are the Islamist Jihadists into one group, It's IMPOSSIBLE!! Although that's understandable, Seeing that you think that way, and that you have not seen the Light, thusly - 'This is the Verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were Evil. Everyone who does Evil, hates the Light, and will not come into the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.'

See? We Christians place our Faith in a Living and Loving God of Creation, His Love shines through the darkest night, for all those who might turn from their wicked ways, and believe!!

"it does not provide a justification for your own particular breed of insanity."

Again, You consistently try to link Christians with the wicked, and their Insane IDEOLOGY!!!!!!!

Question, If you had family who resided in Iraq, and knew that they were being persecuted for their belief in the God of Creation, Would you not want to help them?

You see, We Christians here in the U.S. are not the only Christians in the whole world, There are many folks in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, Lebanon, and the entire middle east, who are also Christians, And we call them our Brothers and Sisters in Christ, which they are, and just like a loved one; We will support and Defend their Right to exist, Any and all who wish to spread the Good news in the world, Any and all who want peace!!

You really have a flaw in your thinking when you try to compare the two, Mr. Amused, You're not only amused, you're confused at the same time!! And that's a FACT!!

"We don't oppose expression of religion."

Then why do you Liberals, bow to every whim of the ACLU, Take back America, and other Socialist Communist organizations in favor of the Atheists, and the Muslims of the murderous IDEOLOGY?!?!?!

I'll be honest with you, I am more inclined to believe that the Left is in favor of, If not more so, than the ACLU and Muslim community, wanting Christianity removed from the public square, removing all Christmas replicas symolic of Christ and Everything else that deals with Christianity!
Just like a Socialist Commie, They want full power and control!!

"We're just quite uneasy when the church tries to sink its claws into the government, which is supposed to be neutral between its citizens. And who can blame us for being distrusting, when you say absurd things like"

Neutral??

Absurd??

Really?

'U. S. Supreme Court, 1952—
Zorach v. Clauson
"The First Amendment, however, does not say that in every respect there shall be a separation of Church and State. Rather, it studiously defines the manner, the specific ways, in which there shall be no concert or union or dependency one on the other.

That is the common sense of the matter. Otherwise the state and religion would be aliens to each other—hostile, suspicious, and even unfriendly...

Municipalities would not be permitted to render police or fire protection to religious groups. Policemen who helped parishioners into places of worship would violate the Constitution. Prayers in our legislative halls; the appeals to the Almighty in the messages of the Chief Executive; the proclamation making Thanksgiving Day a holiday; "so help me God" in our courtroom oaths—these and all other references to the Almighty that run through our laws, or public rituals, our ceremonies, would be flouting the First Amendment. A fastidious atheist or agnostic could even object to the supplication with which the Court opens each session: God save the United States and this Honorable Court.

We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being... When the state encourages religious instruction or cooperates with religious authorities by adjusting the schedule of public events to sectarian needs, it follows the best of our traditions.

For it then respects the religious nature of our people and accommodates the public service to their spiritual needs. To hold that it may not would be to find in the Constitution a requirement that the government show a callous indifference to religious groups. That would be preferring those who believe in no religion over those who do believe...

We find no constitutional requirement making it necessary for government to be hostile to religion and to throw its weighed against the efforts to widen the scope of religious influence. The government must remain neutral when it comes to competition between sects...

We cannot read into the Bill of Rights such a philosophy of hostility to religion."

And there's more, Lots more...

Noah Webster, 1832
History of the United States
"[I]t is the sincere desire of the writer [Noah Webster] that our citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament or the Christian religion.

The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and his apostles, which enjoins humility, piety and benevolence; which acknowledges in every person a brother, or a sister, and a citizen with equal rights. This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free Constitutions of Government.

The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws.... All the miseries and evils which men suffer from, vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.

When you become entitled to exercise the right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers, just men who will rule in the fear of God. The preservation of a republican government depends on the faithful discharge of this duty; if the citizens neglect their duty and place unprinciped men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made, not for the public good, so much as for selfish or local purposes; corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizens will be violated or disregared. If a republican government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws. Intriguing men can never be safely trusted."

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Noah Webster, 1833
Common Version of the Holy Bible,
containing the Old and New Testaments,
with Amendments of the Language
"It is extremely important to our nation, in a political as well as religious view, that all possible authority and influence should be given to the scriptures, for these furnish the best principles of civil liberty, and the most effectual support of republican government."

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Daniel Webster
"If religious books are not widely circulated among the masses in this country, I do not know what is going to become of us as a nation. If truth be not diffused, error will be;

If God and His Word are not known and received, the devil and his works will gain the ascendancy; If the evangelical volume does not reach every hamlet, the pages of a corrupt and licentious literature will;

If the power of the Gospel is not felt throughout the length and breadth of this land, anarchy and misrule, degradation and misery, corruption and darkness will reign without mitigation or end."

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Daniel Webster
Address to the New York Historical Society, 1852
"If we and our posterity...live always in the fear of God and shall respect His Commandments...we may have the highest hopes of the future fortunes of our country.... But if we...neglect religious instruction and authority; violate the rules of eternal justice, trifle with the injunctions of morality, and recklessly destroy the constitution which holds us together, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity."

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Patrick Henry
"Whether this [new government] will prove a blessing or a curse will depend upon the use our people make of the blessings which a gracious God hath bestowed on us. If they are wise, they will be great and happy. If they are of a contrary character, they will be miserable. Righteousness alone can exalt them as a nation [Proverbs 14:34]. Reader! Whoever thou art, remember this, and in thy sphere practice virtue thyself and encourage it in others."

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Patrick Henry
From his Last Will and Testament:
"I wish I could leave you my most cherished possession--my faith in Jesus Christ. For with Him you have everything; without Him you have nothing at all."

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Rev. John Witherspoon
Signer of the Declaration of Independence, Continental Congressman, President of Princeton College.
" . . . he is the best friend to American liberty, who is most sincere and active in promoting true and undefiled religion, and who sets himself with the greatest firmness to bear down profanity and immorality of every kind. Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scruple not [would not hesitate] to call him an enemy to his country.

It is in the man of piety and inward principle that we may...find the uncorrupted patriot, the useful citizen, and the invincible soldier. God grant that in America true religion and civil liberty may be inseparable."

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Samuel Adams
Wrote in 1750
"He therefore is the truest friend to the liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue, and who, so far as his power and influence extend, will not suffer a man to be chosen into any office of power and trust who is not a wise and virtuous man...."

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Samuel Adams
in a letter to James Warren dated February 12, 1779
"A general dissolution of Principles and Manners will more surely overthrow the Liberties of America than the whole Force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader . . . If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security."

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Samuel Adams
"The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament."

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Benjamin Franklin
Address at the Constitutional Convention Thursday June 28, 1787
"I have lived, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?

We have been assured, in the Sacred Writings, that "except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it." I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and bye word down to future ages.

And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.

I therefore beg leave to move -- that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to officiate in that service."

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Benjamin Franklin
In a pamphlet for Europeans titled "Information to Those Who Would Remove to America," 1754
"Bad examples to youth are more rare in America, which must be a comfortable consideration to parents. To this may be truly added, that serious religion, under its various denominations, is not only tolerated, but respected and practised. Atheism is unknown there; infidelity rare and secret; so that persons may live to a great age in that country without having their piety shocked by meeting with either an Atheist or an Infidel."

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Elias Boudinot
President of the First Continental Congress in 1783 and the founder of the American Bible Society.
"If the Moral character of a people degenerate, their political character must follow. These considerations should lead to an attentive solicitude to be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers...and judge of the tree by its fruits."

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Fisher Ames
First Session Congressman from Massachusetts
Should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a schoolbook? Its morals are pure, its examples are captivating and noble... The reverence for the sacred book that is thus early impressed lasts long; and, probably, if not impressed in infancy, never takes firm hold of the mind... In no Book is there so good English, so pure and so elegant, and by teaching all the same they will speak alike, and the Bible will justly remain the standard of language as well as of faith.

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Fisher Ames
Sept. 20, 1789, Palladium magazine
We have a dangerous trend beginning to take place in our education. We're starting to put more and more textbooks into our schools... We've become accustomed of late of putting little books into the hands of children containing fables and moral lessons... We are spending less time in the classroom on the Bible, which should be the principle text in our schools... The Bible states these great moral lessons better than any other manmade book.

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Charles Carroll
Signer of the Declaration of Independence.
Letter to James McHenry, November 4, 1800
"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure,...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

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George Mason
"The Father of the Bill of Rights"
His suggested wording of the First Amendment, September 25, 1789:
"All men have an equal, natural and unalienable right to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that no particular sect or society of Christians ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others."

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Alexander Hamilton
In "The Farmer Refuted," February 1775, Hamilton wrote:
"The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the Hand of the Divinity itself, and can never be erased or obscured by mortal power....Good and wise men, in all ages...have supposed that the Deity, from the relations we stand in to Himself, and to each other, has constituted an eternal and immutable law, which is indispensably obligatory upon all mankind."

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Alexander Hamilton
On April 16, 1802, Hamilton wrote to James Bayard:
"Let an association be formed to be denominated 'The Christian Constitutional Society,' its object to be first: The support of Christian religion; second: The support of the United States."

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James McHenry
He was a physician in the Revolutionary War, a member of the Continental Congress and a signer of the Constitution. Stated in 1813:
"Neither let it be overlooked, that public utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures.

The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability and usefulness.

In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw intrenchments around our institutions.

Bibles are strong intrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses, and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience..."

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President George Washington’s
Prayer for the Nation given at Newburg, June 8, 1783, and copies sent to the Governors of all the States.
Almighty God, we make our earnest prayer that Thou wilt keep the United States in Thy holy protection, that Thou wilt incline the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience to government, and entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another and for their fellow citizens of the Unites States at large.

And finally that Thou wilt most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and specific temper of mind which were the characteristics of Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of whose example in these things, we can never hope to be a happy nation.

Grant our supplications, we beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

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President George Washington
Inaugural Address, 1789
"The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained."

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President George Washington
Regarding the Constitution; wrote to the United Baptist Churches of Virginia, May 10, 1789.
"If I could have entertained the slightest apprehension that the Constitution framed by the Convention, where I had the honor to preside, might possibly endanger the religious rights of any ecclesiastical Society, certainly I would never have placed my signature to it."

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President George Washington
The first National Day of Thanksgiving, 1789
"Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the Providence of Almighty God, to obey His will... I do recommend... Thursday, the twenty-sixth day of November... to be devoted by the People of these United States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be... that we may... humbly offer our prayers... to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations, and beseech Him to pardon our national... transgressions."

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President George Washington
"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports... And let us indulge with caution the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion... Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle."

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George Washington
His Prayer At Valley Forge
"Almighty and eternal Lord God, the great Creator of heaven and earth, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; look down from heaven in pity and compassion upon me Thy servant, who humbly prorate myself before Thee.

Bless O Lord the whole race of mankind, and let the world be filled with the knowledge of Thee and Thy Son, Jesus."

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George Washington
"Of all dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens."

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George Washington
"To the distinguished character of a Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of a Christian."

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George Washington's Vision
Originally published by Wesley Bradshaw. Copied from a reprint in the National Tribune. Vol. 4, No. 12, December 1880.:
"This afternoon, as I was sitting at this table engaged in preparing a dispatch, something seemed to disturb me. Looking up, I beheld standing opposite me a singularly beautiful female. So astonished was I, for I had given strict orders not to be disturbed, that it was some moments before I found language to inquire the cause of her presence. A second, a third and even a fourth time did I repeat my question, but received no answer from my mysterious visitor except a slight raising of her eyes.

By this time I felt strange sensations spreading through me. I would have risen but the riveted gaze of the being before me rendered volition impossible. I assayed once more to address her, but my tongue had become useless, as though it had become paralyzed.

A new influence, mysterious, potent, irresistible, took possession of me. All I could do was to gaze steadily, vacantly at my unknown visitor. Gradually the surrounding atmosphere seemed as if it had become filled with sensations, and luminous. Everything about me seemed to rarify, the mysterious visitor herself becoming more airy and yet more distinct to my sight than before. I now began to feel as one dying, or rather to experience the sensations which I have sometimes imagined accompany dissolution. I did not think, I did not reason, I did not move; all were alike impossible. I was only conscious of gazing fixedly, vacantly at my Companion.

Presently I heard a voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn,' while at the same time my visitor extended her arm eastwardly. I now beheld a heavy white vapor at some distance rising fold upon fold. This gradually dissipated, and I looked upon a strange scene. Before me lay spread out in one vast plain all the countries of the world-Europe, Asia, Africa and America. I saw rolling and tossing between Europe and America the billows of the Atlantic, and between Asia and America lay the Pacific.

'Son of the Republic,' said the same mysterious voice as before,'look and learn.' At that moment I beheld a dark, shadowy being, like an angel, standing, or rather floating in midair; between Europe and America. Dipping water out of the ocean in the hollow of each hand, he sprinkled some upon America with his right hand, while with his left hand he cast some on Europe. Immediately a cloud raised from these countries, and joined in mid-ocean. For a while it remained stationary, and then moved slowly westward, until it enveloped America in its murky folds. Sharp flashes of lightning gleamed through it at intervals, and I heard the smothered groans and cries of the American people.

A second time the angel dipped water from the ocean, and sprinkled it out as before. The dark cloud was then drawn back to the ocean, in whose heaving billows it sank from view. A third time I heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn,' I cast my eyes upon America and beheld villages and towns and cities springing up one after another until the whole land from the Atlantic to the Pacific was dotted with them.

Again, I heard the mysterious voice say, 'Son of the Republic, the end of the century cometh, look and learn.' At this the dark shadowy angel turned his face southward, and from Africa I saw an ill-omened spectre approach our land. It flitted slowly over every town and city of the latter. The inhabitants presently set themselves in battle array against each other. As I continued looking I saw a bright angel, on whose brow rested a crown of light, on which was traced the word 'Union,' bearing the American flag which he placed between the divided nation, and said, 'Remember ye are brethren.' Instantly, the inhabitants, casting from them their weapons became friends once more, and united around the National Standard.

And again I heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.' At this the dark, shadowy angel placed a trumpet to his mouth, and blew three distinct blasts; and taking water from the ocean, he sprinkled it upon Europe, Asia and Africa. Then my eyes beheld a fearful scene: from each of these countries arose thick, black clouds that were soon joined into one. Throughout this mass there gleamed a dark red light by which I saw hordes of armed men, who, moving with the cloud, marched by land and sailed by sea to America. Our country was enveloped in this volume of cloud, and 1 saw these vast armies devastate the whole country and burn the villages, towns and cities that I beheld springing up. As my ears listened to the thundering of the cannon, clashing of swords, and the shouts and cries of millions in mortal combat, I heard again the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.' When the voice had ceased, the dark shadowy angel placed his trumpet once more to his mouth, and blew a long and fearful blast.

Instantly a light as of a thousand suns shone down from above me, and pierced and broke into fragments the dark cloud which enveloped America. At the same moment the angel upon whose head still shone the word 'Union,' end who bore our national flag in one hand and a sword in the other, descended from the heavens attended by legions of white spirits. These immediately joined the inhabitants of America, who I perceived were well nigh overcome, but who immediately taking courage again, closed up their broken ranks and renewed the battle.

Again, amid the fearful noise of the conflict, I heard the mysterious voice saying, 'Son of the Republic, look and learn.' As the voice ceased, the shadowy angel for the last time dipped water from the ocean and sprinkled it upon America. Instantly the dark cloud rolled back, together with the armies it had brought, leaving the inhabitants of the land victorious!

Then once more I beheld the villages, towns and cities springing up where I had seen them before, while the bright angel, planting the azure standard he had brought in the midst of them, cried with a loud voice:'While the stars remain, and the heavens send down dew upon the earth, so long shall the Union last.' And taking from his brow the crown on which blazoned the word 'Union,' he placed it upon the National Standard while the people, kneeling down, said, 'Amen.'

The scene instantly began to fade and dissolve, and I at last saw nothing but the rising, curling vapor I at first beheld. This also disappearing, I found myself once more gazing upon the mysterious visitor, who, in the same voice I had heard before, said, 'Son of the Republic, what you have seen is thus interpreted: Three great perils will come upon the Republic. The most fearful is the third, but in this greatest conflict the whole world united shall not prevail against her. Let every child of the Republic learn to live for his God, his land and the Union.' With these words the vision vanished, and I started from my seat and felt that I had seen a vision wherein had been shown to me the birth, progress, and destiny of the United States."

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John Adams, 1798
Signing of the Constitution
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."

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John Adams
Entered into his diary February 22, 1756
"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there contained ! Every member would be obliged in conscience to temperance, frugality and industry: to justice, kindness and charity towards his fellow men: and to piety, love and reverence toward Almighty God....What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."

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John Adams
Wrote on June 21, 1776
"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand.

The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure, than they have it now, they may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty."

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John Adams
A letter to Mr. Warren
"This Form of Government...is productive of every Thing which is great and excellent among Men. But its Principles are as easily destroyed, as human nature is corrupted...A Government is only to be supported by pure Religion or Austere Morals. Private, and public Virtue is the only Foundation of Republics."

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John Adams
Address to the militia of Massachusetts, 1798
"We have no government armed in power capable of contending in human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."

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President John Adams
"The highest story of the American Revolution is this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."

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Abigail Adams
A letter to her husband John, 1775
"The race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but the God of Israel is He that giveth strength and power unto His people. Trust in Him at all times, ye people, pour out your hearts before Him; God is a refuge for us."

"Luckily, they were also wiser men than you and saw the danger of a government founded on one religion."

I agree in part, Yes, they were wiser men than you, and especially smarter than these Kook Liberals who are disgracing our Congress today!!

"Thank god for men who saw government as devoted to good governance, and not their own personal ideological platform"

They saw government as devoted to good governance, in an Almighty Creator, Our Lord!!

And to the second part of your misconception -

What was their platform?

If you read their quotes, such as I have provided, you'll see!!

Hint: It wasn't their own, They relied on their Creator, The Foundation of this entire Earth, that you're sitting on right now!!

"NOW GO READ A BOOK BEFORE YOU COME BACK AND MAKE ANOTHER POST!!!!!!!!!!"

Yes, their is some good reading you can do, You'll find it where? Yes, In the bible, God's Holy Word!!

Have a nice day!!

:)

Jeremiah

Mark,

You make the typical assumption of the ignorant that because you are bittely partisan and ignore logic that all scientists must also.

Science and scientific method has determined the planet is warming. Your faith has makes you believe it is not. Exactly where's the convergence?

BTW
Regardng the encyclopedia entry you are talking about - Huh?

"Science and scientific method has determined the planet is warming." neologizer

In the meantime...Its snowing in Joburg for the first time in 25 years and snowing in Buenos Aires for the first time in 89 years!!!!!

HELLOOOO!!!!!!

It may be getting warmer in some climes but in others its going the other way.

You kooks will of course blame "climate change" on the evils of man, when in fact, the climate goes in cylces and will forever.