People need to learn that people are innocent until proven guilty in this country...

When a person is mentioned as a suspect in a crime, the focus shifts, particularly in the media, from whether or not they did it to why they did it... even before the suspect sets foot in a court room...

We saw it with the Duke Lacrosse case and we saw it with the Haditha Marines... People just need to let the justice system do what it does without feeling the need to speculate all the time...

Leo, Leo, Leo.

Why should falsely accusing the Marines be cause for removal from office? You should know that if you are a Democrat you can drive your car, without a valid driver's license, while intoxicated, off a bridge, leave the scene of the accident, allow your female passenger to die, and wait until the next morning to report the incident, and not only get re-elected time and time again, but also be considered Presidential quality.

You can be caught on tape accepting a $100,000 bribe and still be appointed to leadership positions in the House.

You can be caught on tape smoking crack cocaine and be re-elected Mayor of the Nation's Capital.

You can impeached as a US District Judge and removed from office for corruption and perjury, then be elected US Representative and be appointed senior Member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.

Rana,

I'm actually proud of you. Good answer. There is hope for you yet. ;-)

"People need to learn that people are innocent until proven guilty in this country..."

Exactly. But that sure as hell didn't stop the left from demonizing these soldiers. They deserve a medal, not handcuffs.

Thanks to Mr. Murtha and Tim McGirk of Time magazine, these soldiers lives have been ruined. Mr. McGirk is the worst of all. He printed the enemies propaganda, and lied about who he got it from. I think "scumbag of the highest order" is a fitting name for Mr McGirk. These good soldiers should all sue McGirk, Murtha, and Time magazine for millions of dollars.

Jack-off Murtha and this Tim McGirk kook should be swinging, side-by-side, from a gallows. RFK Jr, another joke from the nation's "royal" family, should join them.

These people get a pass for all their misdeeds, and the "seminar bloggers" who troll this fine blog idolize them. Even Dr. Dumbass, who can't even spell their names correctly...

"Congressman Murtha doesn't have a statement because the investigation is still ongoing."

Now theres a useful phrase. Too bad Murtha didnt use it months ago when he was hanging these men out to dry for his own political agenda.

Where are all the kooks? Nothing to say? Usually they would be rationlizing to how its all GWB fault. Wheres a kook when you actually want some feedback, must be out on a pro-choice rally.

Where are all the kooks? Nothing to say? Usually they would be rationlizing to how its all GWB fault. Wheres a kook when you actually want some feedback, must be out on a pro-choice rally.

Mistarye, I think the seminar posters are still coordinating their talking points from DailyKooks and DU...

...and Dr. Dumbass is still getting hers read to her by her mother...

I think cyberactor is holed up in his mom's basement, working on his "long" rebuttal to A-10's piece on a previous thread.

Liberals -- God love 'em, cause I sure don't.

Well, lets try to get some facts out here. The investigator is recommending dropping charges against one of the Marines, who was involved in the later incident at Haditha. Presumably, the 2nd Marine involved in that specific incident will similarily have his charges recommended for dismissal.

However, the investigator made no recommendations about the Marines involved in the original incident, which occurred directly after the roadside bomb killed a Marine. To say that all the Marines accused in these incidents are innocent is jumping to conclusions. As you guys routinely say, why don't we assume innocence until proven guilty, and let the judicial system do its job? Just as Murtha shouldn't have deemed them guilty, you shouldn't deem Murtha guilty until the judicial process is complete.

BTW, its really odd to hear you bushbots talking about the judicial process. Didn't you just herald Bush's commutation of Libby's sentence? Wasn't that just last week? To dismiss the outcome of one judicial process, and then herald the outcome of the next is the height of hypocrisy. I guess being a hypocrite is an integral part of being a bushbot these days.

The liberal left burn the American flag,
Push for our troops to frag their commanding officers.
Vandalize recruiting centers with feces,paint and anti-Military filth.
Desecrate Military memorials that honor the leadership and sacrifice of our Soldiers.
March in their "peace parades" with signs that
say"I support the troops when they shoot their
officers" and "F$#k the troops".
Kick ROTC out of schools and do everything they
can to keep recruiters out of schools and Universities.
Liberal leaders like Durbin,Kerry and Murtha have
called our brave Soldiers stupid,cold blooded killers and compared them to nazis running Gulags.
Anti-war liberals have burned effigies of soldiers and hung them from their homes with a rope.
Airman Schrieken who just served tours in Iraq and
Afghanistan returned home to be shot in his drive
way by a peaceful,intelligent,compassionate liberal.
Can we question their patriotism yet?

Baxter, you forgot the liberal group from the protest in Portland, Oregon in march that burned a soldier if effigy and one who took a dump on a burning American flag, in front of all, children included.

Rudeness mars peace message

Real patriots they are, uh huh.

Heh. I heard about this story last night.

Murtha must go!

Oi oi... where are all the folks who were defending Murtha in the past? Still haven't figured out how you're going to defend this SOB?

What's sad is that most likely they'll say this is a "cover-up" and that the Marines are actually guilty but they "knew too much" so they had to be let go. Or some other such stupid story. *Sighs*

I used to dress as a tree for a living.

Gerital Johnny is an asshole. The Marines are not Boy Scouts. They are there to do a dirty job in a shitty place. The fight in Fallujah is one of the epic battles of the mrine Corps. Equal in intensity to the retaking of Hue in 1967. Hadita is a hellhole also. Coward terrorist thugs hiding behind WILLING women and children.

He'll be remembered in the brotherhood of current and former Marines as a sellout. Someone who betrayed us. Benedict Murtha. Semper Fi Johnny - you dick.

Its a green thing.

I agree that the marines should be considered innocent until proven guilty, however if they did indeed commit a crime then they should be punished. Whilst the insurgents can get away with killing innocents the coallition forces cannot because we are bound not only by international law but we should be also bound by morality that says we should minimise civillian deaths. If soldiers did in fact commit this crime then they have no right to cry moral superiority to the terrorists and neither does the west.

Rules of engagement have to be followed carefully, them not being followed has already resulted in deaths that should never have happend. Sure it is hard in war, especially when you don't know who your enemy is but when you ignore them and kill Brittish trops or innocent people then they should be punished.

You don't know the women and kids were willing, when you have guns shoved in your face you tend to do what you're told. Should they not also be innocent until proven guilty? As for kids being willing do they actually have a choice, unless a kid is armed there is no excuse for killing a kid.

Thank you Captain Kirk.

weefee, I agree that shooting a child would cause you nightmares.

What if a rerrorist was killing people with a machine gun while he had his own four children clustered around him for cover? Shoot or no shoot?

tic tic tic - too late you're dead.

What if a roadside bomb just went off and in this area thats usually followed by small arms fire. All you see is women (in Bhurkas) and children. Shoot or no shoot?

tic tic tic - too late, your best friend is dead - and so are you.

Welcome to Haditha.

"Rules of engagement have to be followed carefully"

weefee, it's early so I'll make it short....you have no freakin clue!

You're right navydad I don't but there have been times when blatant disregard has been shown. When the US fired on a british convoy they did not follow the rules of engagement it was shown in the cockpit video and the pilots who shot at the convoy, killing a soldier knew as soon as they did it. They said 'we're going to jail'. It wasn't like the convoy was shooting at them and they didn't bother to check whether it was friendly they just fired. If they had followed procedure, which the video showed that they hadn't, then that would be one less dead soldier.

Absolutely weefee, however, the historical facts are conclusive evidence that bad things and accidents happen during war time. With this said, to present an argument that "rules of engagement" can or will be followed to the "T" is absurd...because it's impossible to prevent whenever humans are in control.

Maybe I'm "age hardened" and a bit more callous than most--other than the real vets such as Spook, Keefer, Kahn et al.--but sh*t happens, and really, that's all there is too it. There's always after action reporting and RCA's to be performed, but these incidents will always happen, some people will die, and if we dwell on each incident, and allow the left to grasp on to these accidents, we're setting ourselves up for defeat...as in Viet Nam, remember???

thanks weefee. If only life was REALLY a Star Trek episode. You jerk. Good jump though, from fighting the enemy to a critique of an unfortunate accident. really lets your HATRED shine through. Yessir. I'd defend you.

It's not an unfortunate accident it was an avoidable accident. My aim is not to point out any failings the US army may have but to point out the importance of following procedure. Surely an army is supposed to follow orders to the letter otherwise we just have a rabble in uniform to Quote Judge Bayliss, condeming a soldier for refusing to go to Iraq.

My hatred of who exactly? America? I don't hate America, I disagree with it's foreign policy as I do with many countries not just America and Britain.

I am a pacifist, I don't support military intervention unless the security of civilians and the interests of the people of the country we intervene in are safe guarded. I don't agree with the intervention in Kosovo, we sped up killings, increased massacres and killed innocent people. I disagree with western countries intervention for so called 'humanitarian reasons' because invariably at the same time we are involved in the persecution of innocent people either through arms sales to genocidal maniancs i.e Suharto or we force economic change on them totally destroying their culture, way of life and often leaving them to work in conditions we wouldn't leave a dog in and for pay that wouldn't even buy us a cup of tea a week. When imperalism was at it's height the British used to claim that we were doing it for the 'natives' own good and to civilize and improve them but we never did. We often took what we wanted and left them with the mess, Iraq being a perfect example, Nigeria too. It is still the same today, every western country is out for theirselves. Perhaps the trully moral foreign policy I support is idealistic and will never replace our past and present so called moral foreign policy but perhaps one day it will.

In marks post about being manly he commented on the use of language to hide the true nature of an issue. Is this not also the case with collateral damage, this phrase is used to cover up some of the worst damage inflicted on innocent people. If the terrorists kill people they murder them if we blow them up it's collateral damage, essentially the end result is the same lots of innocent, dead people.