http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287460,00.html
BAGHDAD — Two U.S. soldiers were charged with the premeditated murder of three Iraqis, while 26 people died in American raids in Baghdad's Sadr City neighborhood, the U.S. military said Saturday.
North of the capital, police said a homicide bomber exploded himself in a crowd of police recruits, killing at least 16 people and wounding 24. The attacker detonated his explosives belt Saturday in a market area outside a police station in Muqdadiyah, 90 kilometers (60 miles) north of Baghdad, a police officer said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.
The two American soldiers are accused of killing three Iraqis in separate incidents, then planting weapons on the victims' remains, the military said in a statement. Fellow soldiers reported the alleged crimes, which took place between April and this month in the vicinity of Iskandariyah, 50 kilometer (30 miles) south of Baghdad, it said.
The U.S. military on Saturday identified the soldiers as Staff Sgt. Michael A. Hensley from Candler, N.C., and Spc. Jorge G. Sandoval from Laredo, Texas.
Hensley is charged with three counts each of premeditated murder, obstructing justice and "wrongfully placing weapons with the remains of deceased Iraqis," the military said. He was placed in military confinement in Kuwait on Thursday.
Sandoval faces one count each of premeditated murder and placing a weapon with the remains of a dead Iraqi, a statement said. He was taken into custody Tuesday while at home in Texas, and was transferred to military confinement in Kuwait three days later, it said.
Both were assigned to the 1st Battalion, 501 Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division, based at Fort Richardson, Alaska.
In Sadr City, the military said those killed were "terrorists" who attacked U.S. troops before dawn Saturday with small arms fire, rocket-propelled grenades and roadside bombs. But Iraqi police and hospital officials said all the dead were civilians killed in their homes.
"Everyone who got shot was shooting at U.S. troops at the time," said Lt. Col. Christopher Garver, a U.S. military spokesman. "It was an intense firefight."
The Iraqi officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity out of security concerns, put the death toll at eight, with 20 wounded.
Seventeen suspected militants also were detained in the operation, which consisted of two separate raids, the U.S. military said in a statement.
American troops entered the Shiite enclave in search of militants suspected of helping Iranian terror networks fund operations in Iraq, the statement said. There were no U.S. casualties, it said.
But witnesses said U.S. forces rolled into their neighborhood before dawn and opened fire without warning.
"At about 4 a.m., a big American convoy with tanks came and began to open fire on houses — bombing them," said Basheer Ahmed, who lives in Sadr City's Habibiya district. "What did we do? We didn't even retaliate — there was no resistance."
The raids centered on the Habibiya and Orfali districts of Sadr City, police said.
Sadr City is the Iraqi capital's largest Shiite neighborhood — home to some 2.5 million people. It is also the base of operations for the Mahdi Army, a militia loyal to anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The fighters are blamed for much of the sectarian killing in Baghdad.
Last year, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki banned military operations in Sadr City without his approval after complaints from his Shiite political allies.
But al-Maliki agreed that no area of the capital was off-limits after U.S. President George W. Bush ordered reinforcements to Iraq as part of the Baghdad security operation.
In the Shiite holy city of Najaf, a spokesman for al-Sadr condemned Saturday's raids.
"We reject these repeated assaults against civilians. The allegation that Mahdi Army members were the only ones targeted is baseless and wrong," said Sheik Salah al-Obaidi. "The bombing hurt only innocent civilians."
The U.S. military statement said soldiers riding in armored vehicles "used proper escalation of force rules to engage four civilian vehicles."
"You start with warnings and work your way up to firing on a vehicle," Garver said. "Every structure and vehicle that the troops on the ground engaged were being used for hostile intent," he said.
U.S. soldiers fired a barrage of bullets at one vehicle after it failed to yield at a checkpoint, Garver said. The other civilian cars were being used as a cover for insurgents, who hid behind them and fired on American forces, he said.
Some of the 26 victims were in civilian cars, some had been hiding behind the cars and others had fired on U.S. troops from nearby buildings, Garver said.
But according to Iraqi officials, the dead included three members of one family — a father, mother and son. Several women and children, along with two policemen, were among the wounded, they said.
One of the policemen, Montadhar Kareem, said he was on night duty in the Habibiya area when the raids began.
"At about dawn, American troops came with tanks and began bombing houses in the area," he said.
"The bombing became more intense, and I was injured by shrapnel in both my legs and in my left shoulder," Kareem said from a gurney at Al Sadr General Hospital.
Hours after the raids, a funeral procession snaked through the streets of Sadr City's Orfali district. Three coffins were hoisted atop cars.
One resident who goes by the nickname of Um Ahmed, or "mother of Ahmed," stood outside her home as mourners passed by.
"We are being hit while we are peacefully sleeping in our houses. Is that fair?" she cried. The woman gave only her nickname, because of security concerns.
Houses, a bakery and some other shops were damaged by fire from U.S. tanks during the operation, Iraqi officials said.
Later Saturday in northwest Baghdad's Shula neighborhood, dozens of men gathered to donate blood for the Sadr City victims.
"The Americans are not letting people live in peace, and there are lots of victims," said one of the donors, Murtada Abdul-Hassan.
"We would like very much to see some action on their part" in halting support for armed groups, he added. "We have not seen it yet."
And we're not going see it, either. Iran will do everything it can to mess up Iraq until they either run out of operatives to send in, or Ahmadinejihad's government collapses. The idea (and emerging reality) of a West-friendly democracy on their western border scares the living [bleep] out of mullahs and their henchmen.
I guess the terrorists aren't getting john edwards message that the war on terror is just a bumber sticker slogan. The democrats are so irresponsible and unserious about the war against islamic fascism, the toughest fight the USA has ever had, I cannot believe the dems are not finished as a party. While terrorists are planning attacks in the USA and England, the dems are serving subpeonas. How can anyone with active brain cells and firing synapses pull the lever for a dem. It is beyond me. Oh yea, it must be the other part of their agenda thats so attractive- abortion, euthanasia, same sex marriage, higher taxes, hillary care and spending quality time with castro, chavez and assad.
You might want to read this article before you jump to any conclusions.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1639118,00.html
You might also want to look at this.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287460,00.html
Right you are, Bigfoot!
Well said, James!
I hope we look to the Brits in how to handle terroism that occurs in our own country. There is an old WWII poster from the blitz that many Brits live by it says "Stay Calm And Carry On". That is what we the public must do when a foiled or succesful attack occurs in this country. We must stay calm and carry on. We can't let the fear of terror overtake our lives. Terrorism is a real threat but it must not consume our lives.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287460,00.html
BAGHDAD — Two U.S. soldiers were charged with the premeditated murder of three Iraqis, while 26 people died in American raids in Baghdad's Sadr City neighborhood, the U.S. military said Saturday.
North of the capital, police said a homicide bomber exploded himself in a crowd of police recruits, killing at least 16 people and wounding 24. The attacker detonated his explosives belt Saturday in a market area outside a police station in Muqdadiyah, 90 kilometers (60 miles) north of Baghdad, a police officer said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to release the information.
The two American soldiers are accused of killing three Iraqis in separate incidents, then planting weapons on the victims' remains, the military said in a statement. Fellow soldiers reported the alleged crimes, which took place between April and this month in the vicinity of Iskandariyah, 50 kilometer (30 miles) south of Baghdad, it said.
The U.S. military on Saturday identified the soldiers as Staff Sgt. Michael A. Hensley from Candler, N.C., and Spc. Jorge G. Sandoval from Laredo, Texas.
Hensley is charged with three counts each of premeditated murder, obstructing justice and "wrongfully placing weapons with the remains of deceased Iraqis," the military said. He was placed in military confinement in Kuwait on Thursday.
Sandoval faces one count each of premeditated murder and placing a weapon with the remains of a dead Iraqi, a statement said. He was taken into custody Tuesday while at home in Texas, and was transferred to military confinement in Kuwait three days later, it said.
Both were assigned to the 1st Battalion, 501 Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division, based at Fort Richardson, Alaska.
In Sadr City, the military said those killed were "terrorists" who attacked U.S. troops before dawn Saturday with small arms fire, rocket-propelled grenades and roadside bombs. But Iraqi police and hospital officials said all the dead were civilians killed in their homes.
"Everyone who got shot was shooting at U.S. troops at the time," said Lt. Col. Christopher Garver, a U.S. military spokesman. "It was an intense firefight."
The Iraqi officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity out of security concerns, put the death toll at eight, with 20 wounded.
Seventeen suspected militants also were detained in the operation, which consisted of two separate raids, the U.S. military said in a statement.
American troops entered the Shiite enclave in search of militants suspected of helping Iranian terror networks fund operations in Iraq, the statement said. There were no U.S. casualties, it said.
But witnesses said U.S. forces rolled into their neighborhood before dawn and opened fire without warning.
"At about 4 a.m., a big American convoy with tanks came and began to open fire on houses — bombing them," said Basheer Ahmed, who lives in Sadr City's Habibiya district. "What did we do? We didn't even retaliate — there was no resistance."
The raids centered on the Habibiya and Orfali districts of Sadr City, police said.
Sadr City is the Iraqi capital's largest Shiite neighborhood — home to some 2.5 million people. It is also the base of operations for the Mahdi Army, a militia loyal to anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The fighters are blamed for much of the sectarian killing in Baghdad.
Last year, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki banned military operations in Sadr City without his approval after complaints from his Shiite political allies.
But al-Maliki agreed that no area of the capital was off-limits after U.S. President George W. Bush ordered reinforcements to Iraq as part of the Baghdad security operation.
In the Shiite holy city of Najaf, a spokesman for al-Sadr condemned Saturday's raids.
"We reject these repeated assaults against civilians. The allegation that Mahdi Army members were the only ones targeted is baseless and wrong," said Sheik Salah al-Obaidi. "The bombing hurt only innocent civilians."
The U.S. military statement said soldiers riding in armored vehicles "used proper escalation of force rules to engage four civilian vehicles."
"You start with warnings and work your way up to firing on a vehicle," Garver said. "Every structure and vehicle that the troops on the ground engaged were being used for hostile intent," he said.
U.S. soldiers fired a barrage of bullets at one vehicle after it failed to yield at a checkpoint, Garver said. The other civilian cars were being used as a cover for insurgents, who hid behind them and fired on American forces, he said.
Some of the 26 victims were in civilian cars, some had been hiding behind the cars and others had fired on U.S. troops from nearby buildings, Garver said.
But according to Iraqi officials, the dead included three members of one family — a father, mother and son. Several women and children, along with two policemen, were among the wounded, they said.
One of the policemen, Montadhar Kareem, said he was on night duty in the Habibiya area when the raids began.
"At about dawn, American troops came with tanks and began bombing houses in the area," he said.
"The bombing became more intense, and I was injured by shrapnel in both my legs and in my left shoulder," Kareem said from a gurney at Al Sadr General Hospital.
Hours after the raids, a funeral procession snaked through the streets of Sadr City's Orfali district. Three coffins were hoisted atop cars.
One resident who goes by the nickname of Um Ahmed, or "mother of Ahmed," stood outside her home as mourners passed by.
"We are being hit while we are peacefully sleeping in our houses. Is that fair?" she cried. The woman gave only her nickname, because of security concerns.
Houses, a bakery and some other shops were damaged by fire from U.S. tanks during the operation, Iraqi officials said.
Later Saturday in northwest Baghdad's Shula neighborhood, dozens of men gathered to donate blood for the Sadr City victims.
"The Americans are not letting people live in peace, and there are lots of victims," said one of the donors, Murtada Abdul-Hassan.
Residents said US attack helicopters fired missiles at targets in the densely-populated area of two million people in northeastern Baghdad.
"At about 4am, a big American convoy with tanks came and began to open fire on houses," said Bashir Ahmed, who lives in Sadr City's Habibya district. "We didn't even retaliate, there was no resistance."
"We are being hit while we are peacefully sleeping in our houses. Is that fair?", asked another woman as she watched a funeral procession in the Orfali district of Sadr City.
Several houses and shops, including a bakery were damaged by the tank fire while the civilian casualties included three members of one family according to Iraqi officials.
They also said several women and children, along with two policemen, were among those injured.
Sadr City is the stronghold of Moqtada al-Sadr, a Shia leader who wants US forces to leave Iraq.
Sheikh Salah al-Obaidi, a spokesman for al-Sadr condemned the raids: "The bombing only hurt innocent civilians," he said.
Casper---and your point is ???????
Well, let's see. We have people choosing to remain in homes which are either occupied by terrorists or in an area occupied by terrorists. And they are surprised and horrified to be injured in some way when the Americans come to rout out the terrorists?
And ol' Murtada whines "The Americans are not letting people live in peace..." So sad. Of course, "....letting people live in peace..." in this neighborhood means letting terrorists continue to bunk there, unbothered, to use it as a staging point for attacks on civilians as well as American soldiers, to build car bombs and mosque bombs, to savage and prey upon their fellow countrymen and fellow Muslims. Yeah, peaceful for THEM, maybe.
I don't see ol' Murtada complaining that his buddies put women and children at risk by moving into this neighborhood, or that the supposedly loving parents of these children had any responsibility to get the hell out of Dodge when it became apparent to anyone that it was soon going to be Ground Zero for a battle. Nope, everyone is completely innocent, everyone is completely lacking in any responsibility for anything that happened----except, of course, for the evil and vile Americans.
But I am sure that Murtada and his fellow supporters of the terrorists do appreciate the bleeding hearts of the radical Left, who grieve so for the loss of their "peace" when they are raided by people who are putting their lives on the line to save other lives.
And BTW, IF a crime was committed, it was an action that is clearly identified as criminal behavior, and reported by other Americans, and subject to punishment. So it can't be used to indict Americans, or the American military---except by the radicals who feed off anti-American rhetoric and love a chance to contribute to it.
Almiranta,
My point is simple. Not everything was reported in the first article. that is why I used an article fromm a fair and balanced source.
I hope we look to the Brits in how to handle terroism that occurs in our own country. ....Terrorism is a real threat but it must not consume our lives. - b.e.l.
I hardly think that terrorism is consuming the lives of Americans considering the recent media fawning over Paris Hiltons jail time and the current obsession over the tragic deaths of Jesse Davis and Chris Benoit.
I also find it interesting that you advocate the Brit approach to terrorism (of which I would endorse) which includes numerous CCTV's on nearly every public street corner and which are heavily monitored. Hence the quick arrests in this incident as well as the 7/7/06 incident.
Would you support government monitored CCTV's in public areas?
Almiranta,
My point is simple. Not everything was reported in the first article. that is why I used an article fromm a fair and balanced source. - casper
I can only determine that you finally learned how to cut and paste from fair and balanced reporting sites. Other than that, WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR POINT!!!!!!!
If I have a point, it's that there is more to this story than Princella reported. If you don't like the coverage talk to Fox.
Casper's point is obvious
While jihadist kill innocent men,women, and children by the thousands,he was able to find an incident about a few rogue soldiers that may have committed "cold blooded murder" as your buddy
Murtha would say.
We have jihadist hell bent on establishing a
Caliphate and killing anyone who will not bend to
shaira law and all the liberals can do is paint their brush of condemnation on our military.
Then super-intelligent Casper wants to start posting about fair and balanced reporting.
Casper needs to address the bogus documents from
Dan Rather,the bogus Koran flushed down the toilet
story that resulted in riots and deaths, the bogus
story of American Soldiers raping muslim women on the front page of a Boston paper, the photo shopped picture of an American Soldier pointing his rifle at terrified women and children in the
LA times,and your hero "Okinawa" Murtha's rush to judgement on Haditha.
These are just a few of the liberal MSM's stand up job pushing their liberal appeasement agenda.
If these stories were correct Casper,please provide the truth for this dumb middle American,
knuckle dragging Republican.
If not,how about cleaning up your own back yard
before you complain about somebody else's.
One Soldier has done more for the spread of Freedom around the world than all the liberal
activists put together.
neocon-
I don't have a problem with CCTV cameras in public areas. I liken them to security cameras at the mall. Your actions in public aren't private, so if the presence of cameras helps with swift responses to threats and crimes by law enforcement, then more power to them.
Actually, downtown Athens, Ga has a similar camera system. In fall 2005, after UGA routed Auburn at home, an Auburn fan burned the tires of his motorcycle into the black night club downtown, and, with the help of the cameras, he was apprehended in 5 minutes or so...
There was also a report that 20 beheaded bodies were found floating down the river. This turned out to be a false report planted by insurgents to try and foment violence. Believe it or not, there are actually people over there and over here, who don't want us to win this war. Shocker!
Casper, it wasn't necessary to put the article from AP on this thread; you already provided the link. And did you notice how clever AP was in combining separate incidents in theri headline? Someone as stupid as Dr. Retard or babysh*teater would read that and think that the soldiers who were charged in the shootings of the three civilians had shot 26.
I guess I'll have to watch the talking heads tomorrow and see if Jack-off Murtha comes on and convicts all the soldiers without a trial. It appears that Casper, the former Republican, has already done so, based on Time and AP...
You didn't hear about Iranian terrorists. These aren't the terrorists you're looking for. Move along.....
You didn't hear about Iranian terrorists. These aren't the terrorists you're looking for. Move along..... Posted by: Kahn
Seriously, Kahn. It's like the MSM has mastered the Sith Lord Jedi mind trick and the weak-willed moonbats fall prey to it every single time.
There's no need to be "consumed" or afraid of the global terroist threat, but we need to be aware of it and take appropriate steps to combat it. Sheesh, DENIAL of the sheer magnitude of this global Islamic threat is just rampant-especially in the UK.
Almiranta,
It's great to see you posting again. I hope you post here more often!
:)
Flaming Jihadi Screamed, "ALLAH! ALLAH!"
"4 Held in Scottish Attack as British See Broader Plot"
yes - so what? It is not surprising that there are Iranians in Iraq that are fighting the US or even terrorists.You have to understand that there is a difference between Iranians and a movement but the Iranian government. If there was any evidence that the Iranian government was actively killing US solders in Iraq it wouldn't be a side story...
Freedom you mistake our refusal to allow these numptys to rule our lives as us being unaware of the potential threat. We are very aware but we will not let them change our way of life. Today hundreds were waiting at the airport to see if they could go on holiday despite the fact that people could have been murdered yesterday. You can be damn sure I'm still going my holiday (out of Glasgow Airport) and this will not put me off. We, although Londonors in particular, are used to a threat of terrorism. It was not that long ago the IRA were blowing up London. I think the feeling is pretty much one of que sera, sera.
Peepee has nailed what I've been telling all of you for years--the left is in the "shit happens" world. However, her equating the IRA and Islamofascists doesn't hold water; the IRA wasn't about jihad and caliphates. They had no desire to "smite the infidels," did they?
You have to understand that there is a difference between Iranians and a movement but the Iranian government.
Dr. Retard, your statement makes absolutely no sense, but having read your drivel for going on a year now, I can finally decipher some of you hyeroglyphics. And it reeks of hypocrisy. What you are asserting is that the Iranians and weaponry coming into Iraq are not connected to the Iranian government, right?
It is not surprising that there are Iranians in Iraq that are fighting the US or even terrorists.You have to understand that there is a difference between Iranians and a movement but the Iranian government. - kblack
But just the other day you said this kblock:
There is no credible evidence that Iran - as a state - is backing attacks against the US in Iraq and certainly there weren't Iranians in Iraq before we invaded. - kblock
So those independent minded Iranians see the US Invasion as an invitation to Iraq to fight the US OR Terrorists, whomever they choose? Who would've thunk the Iranians had such freedoms. And it must be a pretty desperate situation in Iran for them to think that picking up a rifle and heading to Iraq is the best option.
I think the feeling is pretty much one of que sera, sera. - weefee
While I agree terrorists should not dictate our "holiday" plans. Accepting this as a way of life can only be for the severly brain damaged.
Is that how you truly want to live your life? With the occasional and random IED, that kills 20-100 people? Oh well, bring out the street sweepers and get to the lunch appointment, those crazy jihadists!
weefee, you truly speak for the weak kneed and weak minded.
yes - so what? It is not surprising that there are Iranians in Iraq that are fighting the US or even terrorists.You have to understand that there is a difference between Iranians and a movement but the Iranian government. If there was any evidence that the Iranian government was actively killing US solders in Iraq it wouldn't be a side story...
Posted by: kblack77 at July 1, 2007 06:41 AM
INCONSISTANCY ALERT! This isn't the argument liberals make when thay ask why we didn't invade Saudi Arabia where most 9/11 attackers came from.
And it's bogus anyways. OTHER Iranians caught in Iraq have indeed been associated with the government.
no - its not inconsistent. I never argued for the actual invasion of Saudi Arabia - first of all. Secondly there are many known ties to the Saudi Royal family and terrorist groups - in fact it is known that many of them support terrorism. I am not saying that we should invade them - I am simply pointing out the fallacy of the Bush position.
Neocon - I don't know why the Iranians are in Iraq. What I do know is that if there was any real evidence that the Iranian government was backing this or ordering it we would come right out and say it and provide the evidence. Not have it be some snarky back comment on a pseudo-reputable news agency
I'm weak minded WTF I am saying do not let them win you tadgers. I will not let them make us scared of doing what we want to do and we will live by our standards. What should I be doing hiding in a corner What the F will that do apart from let them win? Oh well us Scots and the rest of Britain are obviously all weak. I am simply saying that you can't live your life shitting yourself, listen to the interviews of all the people waiting today at the airport to go on holiday. They said life goes on, they are aware of the threat but won't stop doing what they do because of it.
Keefer I did not compare them I said the IRA carried out bombings which killed and maimed hundreds and that Londoners were used to the threat. It might not be the same but it is terrorism none the less.
You are obviously thick if you think I want bombs to go off killing people what I am saying is I am not going to waste my life worrying about whether I might die from a terrorist attack. I am not talking about security measures that can be taken to prevent this Iam talking about our mentality towards it. If it happens there is nothing I can do except cope as best I can in the situation. I can't prevent it but if it happens I will deal with it.
What is weak minded is sitting there shitting yourself, worrying if you might die or not and letting it affect your life. Do you think during the WW2 people sat around wondering if today they would get killed in an Air raid. They just got on with life and dealt with what came that is what I mean by que Sera sera. It would appear to me Keefer and Neocon you are weak minded if you let it ruin your life. What else are we supposed to do think about it every day because if we do the terrorists have one. That is their aim to terrorise and terrify people.
Ya know keefer, I just logged on and when I saw this statement from Dr. Nimrod: "yes - so what? It is not surprising that there are Iranians in Iraq that are fighting the US or even terrorists.You have to understand that there is a difference between Iranians and a movement but the Iranian government. If there was any evidence that the Iranian government was actively killing US solders in Iraq it wouldn't be a side story..."
I thought, "I wonder if keefer or Almiranta have read this yet"? Well, low and behold, you got to it first...thank God! I'm not sure I would have been so kind.
This pattern by the kook left of siding with the enemy or condoning their hostile actions is beyond words. The Iranians have NOT denied their interaction in Iraq and for Dr. Nimrod to insinuate a "movement" on their behalf is as complicit as it gets.
For crying out loud, who's side are you kooks on?
Gen, Pace said this in Feb.: "We know that the explosively formed projectiles are manufactured in Iran. What I would not say is that the Iranian government, per se [specifically], knows about this," he said. "It is clear that Iranians are involved, and it's clear that materials from Iran are involved, but I would not say by what I know that the Iranian government clearly knows or is complicit."
It doesn't take a fly on the wall to get that the Iranian Gov. is turning a blind eye to the so-called insurgent "movement" (as Dr. Nimrod puts it) and that the Iranian doctrine of "kill Americans" IS their hidden agenda.
BTW, where would this "movement" be obtaining their weapons...Dr. Nimrod?
What I do know is that if there was any real evidence that the Iranian government was backing this or ordering it we would come right out and say it and provide the evidence. - kblock
Do you just not pay attention to what is actually going on? And Instead choose to believe the Islamist propganda machine time after time? Oh and the following is from ABC News, not exactly a right wing propaganda machine.
U.S. officials say they have found smoking-gun evidence of Iranian support for terrorists in Iraq: brand-new weapons fresh from Iranian factories. According to a senior defense official, coalition forces have recently seized Iranian-made weapons and munitions that bear manufacturing dates in 2006.
This suggests, say the sources, that the material is going directly from Iranian factories to Shia militias, rather than taking a roundabout path through the black market. "There is no way this could be done without (Iranian) government approval," says a senior official.
I am simply pointing out the fallacy of the Bush position.
And the Clinton, Bush41, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon...need I go on...position? And if your assertion is true, Dr. Retard, then why is Saudi Arabia not on the State Department's list of state sponsors of terror? Bear in mind, girlfriend, that the State Department, as a whole, is hardly an ally of the Bush administration, and that Dr. Rice--a real Dr., btw--is not the boss over there.
How old are you anyway, Dr. Retard? You know little, if anything, about history. Almost as little as you know about writing...
I am not talking about security measures that can be taken to prevent this Iam talking about our mentality towards it. If it happens there is nothing I can do except cope as best I can in the situation. I can't prevent it but if it happens I will deal with it. - weefee
Awfully defensive there weefee. You, yourself just said: "I CAN'T PREVENT IT".
That's called defeat. You have just admitted that the jihadists have won and that: "IF IT HAPPENS THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO EXCEPT COPE".
That's not the way Americans choose to live their life weefee.
Aye I know it should be won not one.
sure - add on to the list all the previous administrations as well. As I have said 1000 times - the fact that Clinton did something horrible, or Regan, or Carter doesn't mean that what Bush is doing is ok.
They aren't on the list of states that sponsor terrorism because they give us such good oil deals. Objectively speaking they are one of the worst state sponsors of terrorists. Just because the US government says it - don't mean its true
Let's have some proof, Dr. Retard, other than your--not you're or yore--assertions, which are baseless. To use one of your favourite phrases: Just because you say it, usually means it isn't true...
That's not defeat, you can't prevent it if you don't know it will happen, you perhaps could take precautions but that's it. They only win if you're scared of them and change your life to work round them which I am not and will not. What you can do is deal with the situation if it arises. British people aren't defeatists but we are not going to waste our lives worrying about it constantly. We are just more laid back and don't live in a constant panic. How would you prevent it then so as not to be a defeatist?
All I am saying is that I am agreeing with the poster BEL pointed out. Stay calm and cope. Don't start buying bunkers, stop flying and generally panic. It is just stupid to worry about it. I don't worry about getting run over or thrown from a horse which are more likely to kill me. I refuse to let them rule my life.
Casper, here is what your heroes have been up to:
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/bless-the-beasts-and-children.htm
That's not defeat, you can't prevent it if you don't know it will happen,...weefee
But you do know it will happen. It has happened over and over again and will continue.
Stay calm and cope. - weefee
That's the battered-wife syndrome. Would you continue to live with a man that randomly beat you? You don't know if it will, or when happen again, so you just stay calm and cope?????
C'mon, life is too short to live your life at the mercy of random violence. You're stronger than that.
I refuse to let them rule my life. - weefee
You already have let them rule your life by this statement:
"IF IT HAPPENS THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO EXCEPT COPE".
So if and when the man beats you, there's nothing you can do, right?
They are ruling your life.
I notice you didn't put forward any suggestions for what I should do. So how can I prevent this from happening and them from winning? If you are not scared they haven't won is they way I see it. If they don't disrupt your life then they have lost.
no neocon - the burden of proof is on YOU it is on Bush to prove that Iran is doing this. NOt for me to prove that they aren't. Innocent till proven guilty- or perhaps you hate america so much you don't like it that way..
I notice you didn't put forward any suggestions for what I should do. So how can I prevent this from happening and them from winning? - weefee
By not tolerating it anymore. By taking the offensive approach instead of a defensive approach. By employing every means possible to destroy them; diplomacy, law enforcement and military.
When the abusive man is finally confronted by the woman, law enforcement and judicial system; his reign of terror ends. I know this is a mocroscopic example of the Islamist threat but it is relevant.
If you are not scared they haven't won is they way I see it. If they don't disrupt your life then they have lost. - weefee
Their goal is not just too scare you or disrupt your life. That's a rather blind, innocuous way of defining this threat. Their goal is fulfill their preverted interpretation of Islam. To kill all infidels and forced conversion. Unless and until you're prepared to submit, I suggest you prepare to confront them.
We must never acquiesce to their violent thuggery and to except it as an unpreventable fact of life. We must always take the battle to them for however long it takes to demonstrate that their vision of oppression and terror will never be accepted and that they will always have to live life on the run from the vast majority of decent people on this planet that will not tire in their quest to hunt them down.
no neocon - the burden of proof is on YOU it is on Bush to prove that Iran is doing this. - kblock
What in the hell are you talking about???? It HAS been proven that Iran is complicit in munition supply to Iraq.
The deadly and highly sophisticated weapons the U.S. military said were coming into Iraq from Iran are known as "explosively formed penetrators," or EFPs.
U.S. intelligence says the weapons are going to Shiite militias that include rogue elements of Moqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi army militia and a breakaway faction of the Badr Corps, the armed wing of a powerful Shiite party, reports CBS News chief foreign correspondent Lara Logan.
The Iraqi government not only knows but has asked the Iranian government to stop.
Seriously, are you on Ahmendijhads payroll?
dear markus blogolius
yknow.....it's unfortunate.....i want to believe we're killing the bad guys over there....but it's getting tougher to believe what comes out of the current administration's mouth........is it just me? or do others on both sides of the political spectrum feel that way?
LaMano,
If you want to see a picture of my hereos go to this link.
http://www.1ad.army.mil/2ndBde/2bctoct06.jpg
I have had two daughters and a son-in-law serve in that division.
Neocon
Weefee is correct. She is not intimated by the acts of terrorism, while it seems you are. Your approach is to answer violence with more violence and the hell with anyone who happens to be in the way. In order to bring down the perpetrators you are willing to sacrifice the innocent. When the police arrest a man for abusing his wife, neocon, they don't eliminate the family in the process.
She is not intimated by the acts of terrorism, - CO
Intimated ot inimidated? Just asking. They do mean two different things and if its intimated, well then..........we could be seeing more jihadist babies
...while it seems you are...- CO
No, I just don't like bad guys CO, there's a HUGE difference.
In order to bring down the perpetrators you are willing to sacrifice the innocent. - CO
Really? Where did I say that? Or is that just more left wing propaganda.
CO you really do need to pull your head out...and next time you want to engage me, come prepared.
oops...."intimidated"
Sorry, neocon; I did, indeed, mean to type 'intimidated'. Thanks for the correction.
In order to bring down the perpetrators you are willing to sacrifice the innocent. - CO
Really? Where did I say that? Or is that just more left wing propaganda.- neocon
When I said 'you' it was not meant for you in particular, but was used as an inclusive word to indicate 'everyone' who supports the continued occupation in Iraq. Neocon, for every terrorist that is killed, how many innocent civilians do you think are also taken out? To say that civilians should not be near a terrorist is ridiculous and not every civilian who was caught in the middle was aiding and abetting, either.
Neocon, for every terrorist that is killed, how many innocent civilians do you think are also taken out? - CO
Zero.
Our munitions are very accurate and unless the terrorists hide behind women and children, which they often do, zero innocent civilians will be killed.
What a pathetic excuse anyway for not going after the terrorists. Are you really saying that we shouldn't hunt down and kill terrorists because of the possibility that someone innocent may die?
Do you realize how many innocent people died during WWII? Which the left constantly refers to as a legitimate war.
Co, again, if you want to debate me, you're going to have to far better than that.
Neocon, for every terrorist that is killed, how many innocent civilians do you think are also taken out? - CO
Zero.
Posted by: neocon at July 1, 2007 08:36 PM
Pentagon officials say they do not keep tallies of civilian casualties, so I guess according to them, your zero estimate would be correct.
Bush, however, disagrees with your number as he cited in 2005 when asked about civilian casualties:
"I would say 30,000 more or less have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis,"
Are you really saying that we shouldn't hunt down and kill terrorists because of the possibility that someone innocent may die? - neocon
British police managed to hunt down and arrest five suspected terrorists of the failed car bombings without injury or death to innocent civilians.
""I would say 30,000 more or less have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis," "
CO, when he says "ongoing violence against Iraqis" he doesnt me we are the offenders. Yes, alot of innocent Iraqis have died, but you have to ask yourself, who is killing them?
"CO, when he says "ongoing violence against Iraqis" he doesnt me we are the offenders. Yes, alot of innocent Iraqis have died, but you have to ask yourself, who is killing them?"
A lot is two words. Maybe you need some spelling or grammar lessons from Keefer.
"I would say 30,000 more or less have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis," - CO
CO, you're not this stupid. That violence against Iraqis is perpetrated by other Iraqis, foreign insurgents or AQ.
British police managed to hunt down and arrest five suspected terrorists of the failed car bombings without injury or death to innocent civilians. - CO
Wow, ALL 5. Well, I guess the terrorist network has been compromised.
We've also arrested terrorists here at home without death or injury to civilians, but on the battle field of Iraq, other tactics are necessary.
CO, you're really not this thick, these arguments are very elementary.
UK Jihad Doctors: "Two doctors held over bomb attacks"
Unsurprisingly, the B4B crowd has conveniently forgotten Iraq was supposed to be low-hanging fruit before the invasion of the real prize--Iran. This nugget of info is stashed away in the "erased from the collective memory of the talk radio and bible thumper crowd" folder along with the Anthrax Attacks, the massive Congressional victories they were going to get in 2006, the 1987 attack on the USS Stark, the 1983 attack on the Marine barracks in Beirut, and that recent study that proved 94% of us have sex before were get married.