Totally stupid, the people blocking this legislation. Don't they know that the alternative to this bill isn't a bill to build a wall and deport all the illegals. The alternative is to leave things as they are, with the flood of illegals coming in nearly unabated. (I dare anyone to refute that!)

Nobody is going to deport 12 million people. It is inconceivable. Flaws and all, this thing should have passed.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

”Nobody is going to deport 12 million people”

Is everyone listening? This is the desperation cry of the sophistic one-worlder searching for a bromide; bumper-stickers in place of solutions, strawman delux.

A clue for the clueless; secure the borders. The people won today.

This bill would have made the borders more secure than at any time in our history. The people lost.

But at least you didn't refute this statement: "The alternative to this bill is to leave things as they are, with the flood of illegals coming in nearly unabated."

That much is still true.

The alternative is to leave things as they are, with the flood of illegals coming in nearly unabated. (I dare anyone to refute that!) - cyber

And that's been happening for 20 years now, and all of a sudden you're concerned? All of a sudden we need to get behind a very bad piece of legislation that will accomplish nothing but encourage more illegals for the sole purpose of putting a band-aid on this yet unresolve problem?

What don't you understand about "SECURE THE BORDER"!!

Oh, pah-leeze! This bill would make the borders secure? BROMIDE.

The “alternative” to this bill is secure the borders.

That much has always been true.

You don't have to deport them all Cyber, and I agree with you that that idea is ridicluous. And furthermore, those liberals here that claim many people here follow Bush in "Lock-step" should take note of the extreme opposition republicans are putting agaisnt Bush on this one.

Securing the border is #1 on my list. I am very upset with Bush for not taking care of this from the beginning. Espescially after 9/11. There's no excuse for him on that IMO. Am I still a Bushbot? And now I feel even more sold-out because he keeps trying to push this amnesty through, I cringe to think about him and Kennedy agreeing on anything.

Impose fines agaisnt employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens. Dry up the reasons that they're here; and they'll have to leave. And we wont have to deport them. Why is it my duty to keep Mexican famalies here? Why is it my duty to pay for Mexican forgien nationals to get Health care, paid education, etc? Put a stopper in your bleeding hearts. Those people made a choice to cross here illegally, they accept the consequences of that decision.

Someone said earlier that we needed to repeal the 14th Amendment: I couldn't agree more. I think the 14th Amendment is an ace card that illegals know how to play very well.
-Zach

That much is not true!

How about building the 700 mile fence that was approved and budgeted for as a start? How about deporting illegal aliens who have other criminal convictions? How about enforcing fines on the employer?

Enforce existing laws.

Nobody is going to deport 12 million people. It is inconceivable. Flaws and all, this thing should have passed.

And yet, Cyber, one of the provisions of the bill (not sure if it made it into the latest version -- there were so many versions) was to make 12 million people return home (temporary deportation - inconveivable, huh?) before being allowed to apply for legal status. I think once people started to realize this a lot of people's BS meters redlined. Between 1965 and 1986 the government is already over my "fool me once -- fool me twice limit.

As Bane said, "the people won today". I might add that with Cyberactor and Ted Kennedy in favor of this bill, the correct outcome was never really in question. The real question now is how many incumbent Senators and Congresskritters can be vote out come November?

President Bush has taken a hands-on approach to the legislation, which he views as an important part of his domestic legacy. Leading up to the vote, called senators to urge them to support the bill

This is where I completely part with the President and question his judgement. How in the world he could view this as a possible positive domestic legacy despite the resounding discourse of unapproval from his base is beyond me.

This bill would accomplish nothing. Unless and until they are prepared to secure the border, there will be no further discussion.

The people certainly did win today.

The MSM is reporting Bush's immigration bill was blocked! Excuse me, but isn't the President the executive branch, the House and Senate the legislative? What we need is a fairness doctrine for the MSM.

Spook and neo,

We shouldn't be surprised by Bush's support of this bill; he’s been calling for “comprehensive immigration reform” since he first ran in 2000. To say that we stop supporting him because we just realized he was serious is a bit disingenuous. I’ve always felt he was on the wrong side of this issue. But, he doesn’t lose my support because he does what he says he’ll do.

In my circles, we’re already talking about the former Senator Kyl, and the former Senator Mc Cain. Too bad the democrats here that also rejected this bill won’t hold it against their congressmen.

We must surely hang together ...

neo,

I also don’t have a problem with a President that ignores the howls of indignation from the electorate; sometimes doing the right thing isn’t popular. But, in this case, the right thing to do is enforce the laws we already have before promising to enact new ones that will be ignored.

I liked the analogy of the stoplight; if we have a law that you must stop at a red light, but don’t enforce it we have chaos at the intersection. If we promise to reward those that broke that law and institute new red light laws, who in their right mind would abide by the new law, when they know the scofflaws from before were rewarded?

In my circles, we’re already talking about the former Senator Kyl, and the former Senator Mc Cain. Too bad the democrats here that also rejected this bill won’t hold it against their congressmen.

We must surely hang together ...

I concur. And you must be from AZ, as am I. Do you ever listen to Jacobs in the morning on KFYI. He refers to Mccain as "lettuce" - hysterical.

I support Bush on most of his agendas. This one is just beyond the pale and, IMO, comprehensive immigration reform does not mean selling the country out.

I would never vote for McCain.

Coupla things:

First, the entire reason that I quoted the "irrefutable" quote that "...the alternative to this bill isn't a bill to build a wall and deport all the illegals. The alternative is to leave things as they are, with the flood of illegals coming in nearly unabated" is because that quote is actually from...Mark Noonan. He posted it yesterday. I had the feeling that if the message came from me, you guys would jump all over it. Son of a gun. I was right.

Next, as much as I hate to quote the Chimp, here's what the White House website has to say about the border security provisions of the immigration bill that just got trashed:

"Putting Border Security And Enforcement First

"Border Security And Worksite Enforcement Benchmarks Must Be Met Before A Temporary Worker Program Is Implemented. These benchmarks include:

Miles of fence constructed.
Number of Border Patrol Agents hired.
"Catch and Return" continues at the border.
Employment Eligibility Verification System ready to process all new hires.

The Proposal Establishes New Penalties For Border Crimes And Gives The Border Patrol Additional Tools To Stop Illegal Border Crossings. Through the deployment of additional Border Patrol agents with supporting equipment, the construction of additional fencing and vehicle barriers in targeted areas, and the development of a proper mix of sensors, radar, and cameras, the proposal establishes a true commitment to securing our borders."

So, along with all the other provisions, they also made a point, and a strong one, of securing the borders. So you can shut your yaps about that one.

(I can't believe I'm actually on Bush's side on this issue. I need to lie down. And take a BROMIDE.)

"The alternative to this bill is to leave things as they are, with the flood of illegals coming in nearly unabated."

That's a JOKE! Right? ! ! !

Status quo? A do nothing DEMOCRAT Congress continuing to do nothing! Interesting concept!

Alternatives?

The do nothing DEMOCRAT Congress could wake up and insist we enforce our existing laws and do more to secure our borders!

Surely the do nothing DEMOCRAT Congress could at least pass one of their infamous "non binding" resolutions "asking" our law enforcement agencies to do more to stop illegal aliens from crossing our borders. That shouldn't be too hard to do and shouldn't cause the Democrat's too much political grief.

Perhaps the Democrats could hold up on funding their pork and spinach and divert a little of that money to border security. Too hard?

The alternative is for the DEMOCRAT controlled Congress to approve a Constitutional Amendment to make English our national and official language, and forward it to the states for ratification. Too hard?

The alternative is for the DEMOCRAT controlled Congress to pass laws increasing the penalties for entering our country illegally and on those who hire those illegals. Too hard?

How about a law to allow hospitals, voting officials, and others to check and verify the citizenship those they suspect are illegals? How about stronger laws to make sure illegals aren't receiving welfare, free healthcare, and other taxpayer funded subsistence?

Can't deport 12 to 20 million illegals? Sure we can... There won't be any problem at all locating a few to get the train moving back toward Mexico!

We can add more to the do nothing DEMOCRAT Congress "to do" list when they "do something"!

Democrats can't do anything to stop more illegals from entering the U.S. without their useless and failed bill? Ridiculous ! ! ! ! !

Perhaps the Democrat controlled Congress is shooting for a LOWER approval rating. They are now at 14% approval overall, and 3% approval on their handling immigration (lower than even President Bush!)

Let's shoot for ZERO!!!

AAR

Boy, AAR, you walked right into my little snare. Thanks a lot for the laffs...

Let's shoot for ZERO!!!

Actually, AAR, I believe the poll you cite had a margin of error or +/- 3%, so, theoretically, it could already be ZERO, heh, heh.

Bane, I wish the next election were this November instead of 2008. We really do need to CLEAN HOUSE!! The majority of American voters have short memories, and this'll be all but forgotten in 18 months. It will be interesting to see how much of an issue illegal immigration is in the 2008 Presidential race.

Isn't it great how it is only "Bush's bill" and his defeat? Democrat Kennedy somehow has nothing to do with it, it seems.

Umm AAR, you do realize that congress just makes the laws, and the executive branch is in charge of making sure that they are actully executed. It's allready illegal to just immigrate into the US without permission of the US govt. The only problem with our immigration laws is that the executive branch (aka Pres. Bush) refuses to enforce them. We don't need any shiny new laws, we just need Bush to enforce current laws.

Boy, AAR, you walked right into my little snare. Thanks a lot for the laffs...

Translation: I guess you're right, AAR.

Thanks a lot for the laughs, Cyberacidhead...

"Isn't it great how it is only "Bush's bill" and his defeat? Democrat Kennedy somehow has nothing to do with it, it seems."

This IS Bush's bill. Just like Social Security privatization was Bush's. When he makes an issue a top priority, it becomes inexorably associated with him. He pushed for it, he campaigned for it, he tried to twist GOP arms to get it passed and...the whole thing was defeated by members of his own party. That's why it's Bush's defeat. (Again, just like privatization.)

When it walks like a lame duck and quacks like a lame duck...

neo,

Nope, I live in Southern California. My “best Friend” lives in Arizona and I spend much time in the valley of the sun, I grew up in Glendale; 63rd near Camelback, but live in Smogville-by-the-Sea now. I could have said former Senator Lott, and former Senator Grahamnisty, but chose the two I can work actively to defeat through my friends in Arizona (it’s a dry heat! But, I've seen people burst into dry flames.)

Robert,
EXACTLY! The Administration has been pushing this “comprehensive” idea and even though we had appropriations for the fence, they have been holding out for the rest of the program. I favor a guest worker program, after we secure the border, I favor harsh penalties against employers who knowingly hire illegal’s after we secure the border, and I favor a review of the status of undocumented workers currently living and working in the US for possible workers’ status after we secure the border. This is the part the Congress and the President don’t seem to get; new laws? We don’t believe you, new penalties? We don’t believe you, pay a fine? We don’t believe you, pass the amnesty bill and we’ll cut off the hemorrhaging of our civil infrastructure? We don’t believe you! Secure the border, enforce our laws and if you do then we can talk about your amnesty bill. Just prove you’re serious about our sovereignty.

This bill would have made the borders more secure than at any time in our history.

In theory, perhaps, but as we learned with the 1986 bill, which also promised border security, and from our horrid lack of progress in building the fence that is supposedly already authorized, there's a gap between having a law on the books and enforcing it.

If the 1986 bill had delivered what it (or its sponsors) promised, there wouldn't be 12-20 million illegals here now.

Offering amnesty to lawbreakers, no matter what other pretty name you give it, only encourages more lawbreaking. That's what happened as a result of 1986, and that's why so few of us trust Bush, Kennedy, etc. on this issue.

A clue for the clueless; secure the borders.

And allow our Border Patrol to use any means necessary, up to and including shooting, to apprehend drug smugglers who don't submit to arrest. You know, like regular cops. And no immunity for smugglers of either people or drugs caught in the act.

Totally stupid, the people blocking this legislation. Don't they know that the alternative to this bill isn't a bill to build a wall and deport all the illegals.

No, there is a way other than pass this bill or deport all illegals. Put the screws to the people who hire them, including jail time. Cut off federal money to localities that try to act as "sanctuaries" for illegals. Cut off all tax-payer funded aid, except for emergency medical treatment, for anyone in the country illegally. These would decrease the incentive to come here illegally, and give the illegals some incentive to self-deport.

Cyber poseur,
This must cost you some consternation; DE-flated that your one-world Shamnisty bill was defeated, but DE-lighted that it’s Bush’s defeat. What makes you happier? Selling out your principles for political gratification or not having principles?

"This must cost you some consternation; DE-flated that your one-world Shamnisty bill was defeated, but DE-lighted that it’s Bush’s defeat."

No consternation here. See, it's kinda like a lose-win situation. Sure, the immigration bill, which would have been great, did not pass. That makes me have this face- :(

But Bush going down in flames? Again? At the hands of his OWN party? That makes me do this- :)

So, in the end, there is no consternation. It just kinda looks like this- :].

Which is just fine by me.

I just wrote a post about this on my baby blog (I started it on either Tuesday or Wednesday...). I don't feel like writing that stuff over again... so take a look at what I wrote.

Be vigilant, if this beast raises its head again step on it . . . hard.

Here is an interesting article on the Bill from factcheck.org

All I know is, life is good now that the Shamnesty bill is dead (like John Kerry's presidential aspirations)

Oh, and BTW, cyberactor, we have laws to build a fence and secure the border without the shamnesty bill. They laws are already on the books.

If you think that this bill, if it had passed, would have really compelled the federal governemnt to actually secure the borders, you have another thing coming. Would not have happened.

Frog-man,
Factcheck used a published version written after Gingrich's speech and before the version that hit the Senate this week, for contrast look at the section on "gangs." The definitions were so convoluted and so narrow that ultimately Gingrich was right; criminals can't be deported. The final version isn't anything like the truncated version that Factcheck referenced. If you can figure out who is ineligible after reading the section on SEC. 204. INADMISSIBILITY AND DEPORTABILITY OF GANG MEMBERS you either have a Georgetown law degree or you’re lying about defining to whom the § refers.

Maybe JPL can explain to me what this line means; "The amendments made by this subsection shall apply to any acts that occurred on or after the date of the enactment of this Act." Are the "acts" referring to acts of the criminal enterprise?

Democracy.

WORD that, Kahn!

May this crappy bill never return!

My biggest problem about this bill was that it wasn't really "immigration reform." All it did was focus on those who are here illegally. It did nothing to help the immigration flow in the future. Any of you had to bring over a loved one from another country?

OH MY GOD! You have no idea how much a pain in the arse the process is until you've gone through it. My family has had to go through hoops for decades bringing over family members from China one at a time. Hell, I'm trying to bring my fiance over from Australia and it's already taken over 4 months to even get a hearing! O.O!

I'm sorry, the plan they had was idiotic and short sighted. It didn't solve anything and would only lead to more problems in the future.

"I'm sorry, the plan they had was idiotic and short sighted. It didn't solve anything and would only lead to more problems in the future."

Probably why hyperactor liked it... it just fit so well into his other "thinking".

Just like Social Security privatization was Bush's.

Should have gotten that through, then empowering 12 million+ illegals to raid SS, which was in This bill, would would have made that portion of it moot!

Illegal Immigrants, were getting into America, long before Bush, became President. Democrats, have rolled out red carpets, for illegal immigrants, and terrorists. Republicans, must continuously find solutions to a Democratic, initiated catastrophes.

My thought's on all of this:

Bigfoot mentioned the "One Time Amnesty" that took place back in 1986. It doesn't get brought up alot, maybe because it happened during the Reagan years, I don't know, but it was never enforced. This was another "One time Amnesty" and it wouldn't have been enforced either.

The status quo is actually preferable to what this bill would have brought about. The guest worker program is the worst thing you can do. It breeds a subservient lower class cut off from the dominant culture, a breeding ground for radicalism and hatred. That's what France and Germany have.

Over on the the leftwing Americablog the posters are all happy this didn't pass either. This is one issue most of us agree on.

The "Day Without An Immigrant" marches this year and last year backfired in a major way. Waving Mexican flags while demanding to stay in America was the wrong thing to do.

We could solve this problem tomorrow with a pretty simple concept: A national ID.

Be vigilant, if this beast raises its head again step on it . . . hard. by: rplat

Bwahaha!:) That's the best line of the thread!

I speak Spanish fairly well. Carry on with your futile war against immigrants.

This bill would have made the borders more secure than at any time in our history.

That's false. Here's yesterday's transcript of the discussion between Glenn Beck and Senator Jeff Sessions(R), Alabama:

BECK: Now Tony Snow also said to me, "This is a security bill, Glenn. I don`t know why you`re upset about it. There`s security in this. There`s the fence in it."

Correct me if I`m wrong. Isn`t there less fence in this bill than the fence that we`ve already financed?

SESSIONS: This bill calls for 370 miles of fencing as part of our -- the trigger. But last year, we passed a bill calling for 700 miles of fencing.

It does not mandate the same amount of Border Patrol agents we`ve already mandated. It does not mandate the number of bed spaces for prisoners that we allocated in 2004.

BECK: Unbelievable.

SESSIONS: So, really, there`s no new enforcement in this legislation.

1) Americans need to continue to call their Senators and Congresscritters and tell them to build the 700 mile fence!!!

2) Americans need to continue to call their Senators and Congresscritters and tell them to STOP the Superhighway (Transportation Corridor) which is about to be constructed in Texas!!!

3) Americans need to continue to call their Senators and Congresscritters and tell them to STOP President Bush from allowing Mexican truckers free and unfettered access to American highways.

American sovereignty is still under attack! Be vigilant, Americans!

The silver lining in all of this is the stinging defeat Congress served to the "decider commander guy."

Anything that disables Mr. Bush is good for America.

Oi Oi Max. It's not a war against immigrants, it's a war against those breaking the law!

Uh Liberalmindless, that stinging defeat was delivered by the Democrat majority Congress, but if you will look at the vote tally, it was primarily and overwhelmingly delivered by Republicans and recently elected real Democrats, not the LiberalCrap that defines the majority! The LiberalCrap Dems, well, I hate to break this to you. They're still like you, liberalmindless.

That is the best part of this stinging defeat. Although for once I don't mind W walking away with his tail between his legs.

Aren't filibusters great.....only when Republicans use them of course!

As a Conservative Hispanic I am sick and tired of this president and myopic G.O.P. operatives pandering and thinking that the key to winning the Hispanic Vote is to vote for this idoitic reform (retreat) of our immigration policy. Millions of Hispanics agree with my position. Our loyality to The Republic demands that this suicide pill-of-a-bill be resisted. Now we are faced with a big question of how will THIS president proceed. Everyone on both sides of this question is agreed that border security is a top concern. We must now hold their feet-to-the-fire and demand that in this post 9/11 era the border be secure and the goverment get busy with enforcing EXISTING laws on employment checks. A pox on those that now choose sulk and foot-drag on this important unfinished task...

Status quo? A do nothing DEMOCRAT Congress continuing to do nothing! Interesting concept

AAR, you ought to be ashamed of yourself--this DemocRAT congress has named a lot of post offices in the last six months. Now apologize...

I was thinking about a website posting pictures of illegals and the companies/individuals they work for....watch how fast 12 million can be removed without having to truck them back to their rubbish pile. A rubbish pile they hold up as their model and trash the country they ran to. Good liberals all of them...let them ride their rocking caddies back to the glories of dirty toilets, bugs, and unclean women. Bush has now lost millions of prior supporters. Many I talk to say they will not return...and neither will I. He sure has officially become a lame duck, but so far nothing in opposition from this blog huh?

dickdee, we could round 'em all up if we had to. The government just won't. They're afraid of the ACLU, La Raza, and other groups who've hijacked our laws and Constitution.

I support my President for his stance on the GWOT, but I adamantly oppose his open-border policy. North American Union, here we come. Ameripesos, anyone?