And what does one expect? The left is composed of lies and fraud. Without it they might not exist. Can anyone say Al Gore....., Bush "lied".....and on and on.

This is what you call lowering the bar before jumping it. First it was "Plame sent her husband" and now it's "Plame suggested her husband."

There must be subpoenas in the pipeline to be rehashing this old, tired disinformation campaign.

Note the response from the leftist:

*****crickets*****

To them the truth matters not...its the seriousness of the charge...Bush lied...blah blah blah....

I think that you're blurring the line between "suggesting" and confirming.

It seems from the excerpt that someone approached Joe first about using his contacts, and then, in the memo, Plame said that Joe would help, not necessarily by going himself (hinted by "willing to help" being used as opposed to "willing to go").

Based on the evidence you presented, your conclusion is spurious...

There must be subpoenas in the pipeline to be rehashing this old, tired disinformation campaign. - congressive

Now it's become old and tired huh? You do realize that Wilson the Frauds trip to Niger DID CONFIRM Saddams attempt to obtain uranium from Niger, right?

Based on the evidence you presented, your conclusion is spurious... - Rana

So was Wilsons.

Did we ever find out who forged those Niger documents suggesting Saddam was attempting to buy yellowcake. If not why hasn't there been an ivesitgation. The Italian Intell Service?

Did we ever find out who forged those Niger documents suggesting Saddam was attempting to buy yellowcake. If not why hasn't there been an ivesitgation. The Italian Intell Service?

He was trying to buy the yellowcake. Wilson lied so he could be on Kerry's campaign.

So called undoctored memos from 2002 this administration can find, but two week old emails at the Justice Department are unrecoverable.

It should be clear to any Republican after reading the following entry it was Mrs. Wilson and not (redacted of CP/office 2) who ordered this pathetic George H. W. Bush appointee go to Niger. My God 18 more months of this.

So where do I fit in? As you may recall, [redacted] of CP/[office 2] recently approached my husband to possibly use his contacts in Niger to investigate.

[redacted] of CP/[office 2] who is this person, Scotter or maybe the Vice President?

neocon-

That may be, but it doesn't absolve Mark from leaping to conclusions.

congressive,

She lied to Congress about what she did - back when Ollie North tried this, you on the left were ready to hang him.

Rana,

I'm not leaping to anything - I just know the true story of what happened vis a vis Wilson, Plame and Niger. The true story is as I've briefly laid it out in the post.

The anti-war movement hangs, ultimately, upon the lies of Joe Wilson, and Sheehan's lie that Bush wouldn't meet her.

So it depends on who is in the White House to prosecute this crime. Way to politicize the criminal justice system.

So it depends on who is in the White House to prosecute this crime. Way to politicize the criminal justice system.

The left would like the Plamegate and Sheehan stories to just go away quietly having already got the mileage out of both them

Isn' the proof that Wilson was not lying about the yellowcake was that no yellowcake was found in Iraq. That seems pretty convincing?

Mark-

You accused someone of a crime, and the only proof that you offered was a memo that doesn't point to your conclusion... Good thing you aren't a judge...

Isn' the proof that Wilson was not lying about the yellowcake was that no yellowcake was found in Iraq. That seems pretty convincing?

Could someone please decipher this poorly-written paragraph for me? Good Lord, people, doesn't anyone have any pride in their writing anymore?

btw, if anyone is paying attention, the assertion was that Saddam was attempting to obtain yellowcake, not that he had obtained it.

Another strawman, don'cha think?

I agree with Keefer.

Besides, there was yellowcake found in Iraq. Although not a lot, and not from the attempts documented by Wilson...

Additionally, I recall reading excerpts from Wilson's "report" that say the reason why SH was unsuccessful was essentially because Niger REFUSED to sell uranium to SH - not because SH did not try to purchase it.

Yes Keefer a straw man indeed. The straw man is the image of a president that you worship despite his faults. I beg to ask if this were a democrat in the Oval Office would he or she for that matter still be president if they had followed the same course as Dubya? I think not when faced with the facts that Clinton's perjury was serious enough to Impeach, which any journalist would admit it was. Equally, and those of you who think this is some sort of tit for tat game you are sorely mistaken, what Bush has done for whatever reason in Iraq is nothing less than a crime against Humanity and he should be charged with 700,000+ counts of second degree murder. If Hillary, Obama, Edwards or anyone else were elected and did these same things I would swiftly call for their removal from office.
As a journalist I do not feel I can be any clearer in how I feel on the matter.

Isn' the proof that Wilson was not lying about the yellowcake was that no yellowcake was found in Iraq. That seems pretty convincing? - b.e.l.

I know it can be hard to pay attention b.e.l., but Saddam was ATTEMPTING to arrange a commerical export from Nigeria. And the only thing that Nigeria could possibly commercially export would be yellowcake (and not the Betty Crocker variety).

So the absence thereof would not be proof of his desire or attempt to acquire. As mark stated earlier, good thing you're not a judge.

Keefer, I responded to b.e.l without seeing your earlier response, which was more succinct than mine.

The mother of all strawmen, don'cha think?

LOL - speaking of obtuse

It has just come in for all you "DENIERS"

SHE WAS COVERT WHEN SHE WAS OUTTED

An unclassified summary of outed CIA officer Valerie Plame's employment history at the spy agency, disclosed for the first time today in a court filing by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, indicates that Plame was "covert" when her name became public in July 2003.

Turns out after all your whining about no crime or that she wasn't covert was like everything else you post - pure fantasy

Turns out after all your whining about no crime or that she wasn't covert was like everything else you post - pure fantasy - Amp

Richard Armitage should be prosecuted then. But tell me what that has to do with:

A: Plame recommending her husband for the mission, which she lied about.

B: Wilson lying about his findings.

She was covert? Then why did her husband list her job with the CIA in the Who's Who? How covert is that?

Mark:

Forget about it. To lay the groundwork for that, the Bush Administration would have had to push back with some degree of confidence, coherence and competency.

They shouldn't have run away from the "16 words"; they should've flat out called Joe Wilson a liar; and they should've put Tenet on the carpet for sending a hack like Wilson and letting him go without signing the standard confidentiality.

No one would've ever had to mention Valerie's name - Who cares who suggested him, the question is who approved the suggestion?

Bush has allowed insubordination from the permanent bureaucracy from the start. There's no fixing it on his watch - to do it now would, indeed, look like revenge - and there's no way ANY Republican president could pursue it without being open to the same charge.

Simply put, the President's failure / inability to fight for himself has poisoned that well.

Simply put, the President's failure / inability to fight for himself has poisoned that well. - BD

I concur. Bush needs a spine transplant

Here ya go

Apparently Plame was covert... huh...

Apparently Plame was covert... huh...

Yeah? Well, apparently, Rainman, noone was convicted for "outing" the lying b*tch...

Since this is a post about (alleged) lying, maybe you bushbots can provide some evidence to back up what you're saying.

Mark, you claim that "pretty much everyone" knew that Plame was a CIA agent PRIOR to the Novak article. Please provide a link to the evidence of this. (No, statements by pundits and politicos that "everyone knew" are not evidence, they're hearsay. Try again.)

Kjtrouble, please point to the Who's Who entry that says Valerie Plame is a CIA operative.

If you can't provide this evidence, then I must assume that you are lying.

Apparently Plame was covert... huh... - Rana

You should be demanding that Richard Armitage is indicted. Or does that fit your agenda?

"Did we ever find out who forged those Niger documents suggesting Saddam was attempting to buy yellowcake. If not why hasn't there been an ivesitgation. The Italian Intell Service?"

I read an article that suggests that Michael Ledeen may have been behind the Watergate-like break-in of the Nigerian Embassy and the forgery. Ledeen is a neo-con that helped introduce the Reagan administration to an arms dealer that lead to the Iran-Contra Debacle. Ledeen is an associate of Karl Rove and has a relationship with Niccolo Pollari, the head of Italy’s Intelligence Agency, SISMI.

If the Justice Department was going to indict Valerie Plame on perjury charges, they would have done it already. They're not going to. They are too weak. Their best prosecutor is on the other side. The Republicans have little chance of winning anything in '08, but if they do they're not going to go after the Wilsons. Anyone hoping for an indictment against the Wilsons should just give it up. Ain't gonna happen.

neocon-

You used some bad syntax. Frankly, I don't know everything about this case, which is why I haven't made any overarching generalizations in my comments.

keefer-

You just love to look at what you type, don't you? I'm picturing a crotchety old man who doesn't take kindly to balls landing in his lawn... Perhaps you just use this as a vehicle for you to unleash all of your frustrations... A quick ot question... Does your first name happen to be Frederick?

...and he should be charged with 700,000+ counts of second degree murder.

This blows your last shread of credibility, Cavalier Idiot, Esquire. Quoting debunked numbers makes you a liar. Makes you Elsie O'Donnell. Way to go, Elsie.

I'm picturing a crotchety old man who doesn't take kindly to balls landing in his lawn...

Wrong-o, Rainman; I love sports, and I hit golf balls in my front yard. I picture you as a young punk who takes kindly to balls hitting his chin. Am I correct?

A quick ot question... Does your first name happen to be Frederick?

No, why do you ask? Be honest, and maybe I'll tell you my real name. Unless, of course, you're stalking me. Then I may contact the authorities...

I read an article that suggests that Michael Ledeen may have been behind the Watergate-like break-in of the Nigerian Embassy and the forgery.

Oh? By whom? Where, in the U.K. Guardian?

Can we move on? Scooter's gonna get three years, and the President is gonna grow a pair, and pardon him. Let's MoveOn...

I read an article that suggests that Michael Ledeen may have been behind the Watergate-like break-in of the Nigerian Embassy and the forgery.

Oh? By whom? Where, in the U.K. Guardian?

Can we move on? Scooter's gonna get three years, and the President is gonna grow a pair, and pardon him. Let's MoveOn...

I read an article that suggests that Michael Ledeen may have been behind the Watergate-like break-in of the Nigerian Embassy and the forgery.

Oh? By whom? Where, in the U.K. Guardian?

Can we move on? Scooter's gonna get three years, and the President is gonna grow a pair, and pardon him. Let's MoveOn...

Hey, I pulled a kblockhead and repeated my post. Sorry, folks, but it's early...

Oh Keefer you poor old sot you see it's only me . . .

Your desire to remain delusional is tiring but as a champion of Truth i must point out that every time you boys and girls clinging to the Right Wing drum beat something for your dwindling herd of sheep it turns out to be yet another grenade steeped on leaving you covered in your own feces. You must be sick of this being wrong found out to have "jumped the shark" of just been lying so many blood times.

Now Fitzgerald you know that US Attorney guy from Chicago had declassified a report that confirms that Valerie Plame was a covert operations officer for the Central Intelligence Agency. "Ms. Wilson was a covert CIA employee for who the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States."--CIA's unclassified employment summary for Valerie Plame as attached to the documents filed by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald as they appear at MSNBC.com.

So Ms. Plame was not a desk jockey or a secretary of an analyst she was a covert operations officer, a spy, someone who could be outed and have others pay with their lives for that outing.

So every post that every one of you who were so desperate to support anything that casts a black cloak over the Truth about anything with a scintilla of connection to the war in Iraq are liars. I can use such harsh words because you knew better than to try to use politics and divisive rhetoric in this case because had this been done to one of your Jack Bauer icons by a democratic Veep you would be screaming for blood in the streets of Washington.

Personally, Keefer, neocon and all the rest who feel name calling and hate speech is going to make the Truth in its infinite simplicity to those of us who feel the need for it to be spoken, loudly, to go away to shrink back to our comforts and those who succor us then you do not know what the definition of patriotism is!

If calling a dissenter a traitor makes you feel comfortable in your beds at night then you are nothing short of an arrogant fascist who deserves not the promise of Liberty nor the joy of Freedom.

In a battle of wits gentlemen, thin ideological rhetoric, the panderings of preachers and talking points that serve the corporate elite/ race centric hegemonists are blanks against rational thinking logic and an open mind.

Qu'ul cuda praedex nihil!

Neocon
Only Armitage should be indicted? Actually by that logic Rove, Libby and Cheney should to.

They all talked about or ordered that her status be talked about to the press full well knowing it shouldn't be. Every excuse given by you Bushbots as to why this was OK has turned out to be false-are you ever going to give up justifying crime and incompetenence

Face it this case is just a microcosm of the whole Bush presidency. Incompetence and politics that tightropes on the edge of criminal actions. The plame case has been repeated a thousand times all over the government and the dirty laundry is just coming out.

Katrina, Attorney firing, Iraq, Abramoff, WMDs, border security, illegal wiretaps and who knows what else.

This case wasn't the worst just the first...

He was trying to buy the yellowcake. Wilson lied so he could be on Kerry's campaign.

Posted by: jbiccum at May 29, 2007 01:48 PM

jbiccum-
The Niger docs were forged and have been confirmed as such. The only people who still believe they're legit are those who'll with a straight face will tell you that Saddam trucked all of his WMD to Syria. Give it up, that boat has sailed.

Mark and the rest of the waterboys here-

This topic and the explanations from the usual suspects here is just another installment of goal post redistricting would'nt you say? Wasn't it she sent him to Niger and now it's she confirmed he would go? Talk about weak.
First this incompetent administration was after "weapons of mass destruction" but when that didn't pan out it became "weapons of mass desruction "systems" ". What's "systems" you may ask? Why it's any fertilizer plant within the borders of Iraq my children. From yellow cake uranium to cow crap. Here's to the dumbing down of credible proof.

Everyone get your rest. You've got another 18 months to try and pull this guy to a touchdown .

Amp,

I guess you stopped reading after the headline.

FYI from the article:

"No one was ever charged with the leak of Plame's name itself, which would have been a crime only if someone knowingly gave our information about someone covered by a specific law protecting the identities of covert agents."

So your point is moot.

In addtion you ignore the perjured testimony of Plame regarding her invovlement in sending her husband to Niger.

...are you ever going to give up justifying crime and incompetenence

"Incompetenence?" Can't justify that, ScAmp...

Ah, so there WAS a reason to rehash this. Turns out that court documents clarify she WAS covert, hence all the "no crime committed" gang was:

a. misinformed
b. lying through their teeth
c. spinning like a GW's bike tires
d. committing crimes themselves

Either you think Libby was politically attacked and our jury system form of justice is completely dead, or you're backing a convict's pardon. Why do you defend criminals just because they check the same little box on their voter registration form as you? Isn't that what the terrorists want?

So Mark, about that "lie to Congress" thing you guys keep fabricating... I'm sure Gonzales will get right on that.

I just stumbled across a PDF online that was about a Frederick Keefer, MD... just wondered if it was you

I just stumbled across a PDF online that was about a Frederick Keefer, MD... just wondered if it was you

Posted by: Rana Quijotesca at May 30, 2007 06:45 PM

Let's hope not, RQ. Can you ever imagine keefer giving out medical advice? It would be a**hat this and moron that; the poor patient would succumb by just having to breathe in all that blue air.

So let me get this straight: because Plame said her husband was WILLING to go, that means she recommended him? That makes ZERO sense. So, because I say that my friend if WILLING to do something, that means I want him to do it and recommend him to? No.

Show me one document where Plame says outright "I recommend my husband for the trip". There is none.

This is supposed to be perjury? If you brought up these charges in a court they'd laugh you right out of the place.

I just stumbled across a PDF online that was about a Frederick Keefer, MD... just wondered if it was you.

No, I'm a few semester-hours short of my MD, and keefer is derived from Keith--my real name.

Let's hope not, RQ. Can you ever imagine keefer giving out medical advice? It would be a**hat this and moron that; the poor patient would succumb by just having to breathe in all that blue air.

lol, I'd be like Dr. Becker...

So Ms. Plame was not a desk jockey or a secretary of an analyst she was a covert operations officer, a spy, someone who could be outed and have others pay with their lives for that outing.

Well then, Cavalier Idiot, Esquire, why was nobody indicted for outing the lying desk jockey? I'm almost sure I saw her in the HQ cafeteria at least once.

Do you still remember December's foggy freeze?

The cannibal wrote:

"Isn' the proof that Wilson was not lying about the yellowcake was that no yellowcake was found in Iraq. That seems pretty convincing?"

Uh, cannibal, a few years ago the U.N. was jumping up and down about the fact that the U.S. removed 500 tons of radioactive material from Iraq.

I'll go slow.......1.3 METRIC TONS OF THAT WAS YELLOWCAKE!!!

Look it up!

No yellowcake was found? Well..............

Stop listening to your handlers.