Lets see...

- hype and outright lies told to rush this nation to a needless war costing 3,400 US lives, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, untold misery, and unspeakable horror - that's OK.

- a couple of twits doing a skit about boinking Laura, deified (if somewhat dim) wife of the Dear Leader - not THAT'S going over the line!!

Oh, but they "apologized." that's all a lefty has to do.

Where are the 'Justice Brothers' and their foaming at the mouth over this outrage against a Black Woman.

Sorry, forgot, she isn't a Democrat!

I think Airheadtime should be banned for slandering the President for the umpteenth time. This is getting old, Airhead. Nobody lied to get us into war, and "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqis have not been killed.

Is anyone else in agreement with me? Does Airheadtime deserve to be here? We are supposed to be moral people, and it's clear Airheadtime is a dirtbag. Ban him/her/it now...

“I don’t like it so they shouldn’t be able to say it”. Stop crying, the only people contacting XM about their show are the new subscribers that want to hear what else they talk about unlike your narrow-minded 45 second view of one show taken out of context.

Trust me, it’s COMEDY.

I agree with keefer, dump this fool...

I hope they get fired because they deserve it. I believe in free speech, but we've got to draw the line somewhere.

And, I concur with Keefer. Airhead has got to go.

keefer -

" and "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqis have not been killed"

You know this for a fact, keef? Based on what?

"We are supposed to be moral people, and it's clear Airheadtime is a dirtbag. Ban him/her/it now..."

That's pretty rich, coming from the likes of you. There is nobody on this board who engages in more slander and hurls more insulting names at other posters than you. And no one uses more foul language on this board than you. Often your posts consist of *nothing but* name calling. I'd be happy to repost some of your daily gems that constantly violate the policy here at B4B.

I merely posted the truth, and it obviously hurts. Since you can't handle the truth, you whine to have me banned. Sorry to rock your world, keef - but you'd better get used to it. Reality is a (you know what).

To quote keefer in a previous thread - "67 Years Ago Today":

Airheadtime... How'd you turn out so stupid? Your parents weren't this stupid, were they? Because, if they were, they would've been too stupid to produce you. My guess is too many blows to the head...

Gee, let me see if I can follow your counter argument posted in reponse to mine: I'm stupid. And I'm also stupid. And I'm pretty... stupid. And my parents were stupid. And I'm stupid.

Great "moral" contribution as always, keefer! Keep up the brilliant work.

aaron - for the umpteenth freakin time, Bush told no lies you stupid knuckle dragging moron.

Personally, I think that Airheadtime should be allowed to remain. He makes for great comedy, and reminds me to invest more money in Prozac stock.

As far as Free Speech goes, it was inserted into the Constitution so that people would be free to criticize the government without fear of governmental retribution. It was never meant to be used to slander or demean other people.

That said, though I have never listened to Opie and Anthony, they should be canned, if XM has any standards.

I say give the big boot to aarontime. Also sends him a link to the UN website so he can find out the actual body count of Iraqis. Not the Lancet Study. Aaron, you say that all you said was the "truth", i'm sorry but i dont buy that one bit, you're stuck in an argument from 2003. You dont talk "truth" you use talking points, and i'll admit, it's annoying. Pull your head out of your ass, and maybe we'd even consider thinking about your posts. (when you attempt to make a point) You waste time, and space on this site. Mark. Please ban him. We can have debate's without him, and without condoning slanderous vitriol agaisnt our commander in chief.

hmmm - so Aarontime calls Laura "some what dim witted" and its the worst thing any of you have ever heard here. So bad that he deserves banishing..

Yet - others here - such as keefer - cannot go one post without using "asshat", "retard", "failed abortion", "f*cker", "sh*thole", etc...

None the less - ALL of those of you who have complained routinely use much worse language then "somewhat dim witted" for democratic leaders.

I don't know what is more amusing - the obvious hypocrisy of your positions or the elementary school mentality you post all over the internet.. Sad really

I merely posted the truth, and it obviously hurts.

News flash, Airheadtime: You did not post any truth--President Bush did not lie, and far less than "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqis have been killed. Don't request proof, for you have no proof of any of your assertions. You parrot talking points.

I'd be happy to repost some of your daily gems that constantly violate the policy here at B4B.

Don't bother, son; I'm the bulldog, and I'm allowed to insult your sorry ass as much as I wish. I'd be happy to repost Mark's approval, but I'm not gonna gloat. Nor am I gonna abuse this priveledge. Allow me to repeat this: I'm not gonna debate morons like you; you're so brainwashed by Soros, Dean, Reid-tard, and Piglosi, that there's no way to get through to you. You, Airheadtime, are here to play gotcha, and nothing else. You have added nothing to the debate, and you should be banned. But I'm gonna agree with William--you make for great comedy. So thanks for the laughs, buttmunch, and keep up the good work. Assbite...

*Shakes head*

Well I'm going to have to disagree with you again princella. There are a lot of things Opie and Anthony say and do I disagree with, but as long as they have an audience that are worth the cost of airing them they should be allowed to continue in their "work."

It's up to the O&A audience or XM Radio to cut them, not those of us who never listen to them. If they go too far they'll lose their audience, but for those of us who never hear these guys why are we pissed off? Did they say bad things? Sure, so do a lot of people, but O&A are NOT on the public airwaves and are NOT public officials. So I don't see a public need to worry, it's up to the private audience XM Radio has for these guys. Nothing more.

As for Aarontime and Kblack, I don't really care if they're here. We've had crazy posters here since launch why ban these two? Just because they say the same things every day and never add to a conversation? That's not a good enough reason to me. Besides, without the likes of them who will Keefer have to yell at? :D

queefer,
You can't really use buttmunch and assbite in the same post without sounding like a total gouch.

Cheers!

Personally, I'm surprised that Opie has gotten to this point. 45 years ago, when he was cared for by Andy, Aunt Bea, and the rest of the Mayberry community, who would have thought?

What's that? It's not the same Opie?

I kid, but not that much. I do wonder about the "Mayberry community". I don't think laws are the appropriate answer, but scorn is. If people have the freedom to get on the public airwaves to condone, joke about, or even depict random, capricious, senseless violence, then other people should be equally free to denounce it -- free not to just turn it off, but free to denounce it as publicly as those who say this crap. In my mind, it's not a left/right issue, it's a comity issue, a personal respect issue, a community issue. The first ammendment is a wonderful thing, but the door should swing both ways.

On the other hand, when speaking out, be aware that the more attention you draw to the target, the more attention you draw to the target -- if you know what I mean. In other words, sometimes calling attention to a problem can solve it, and sometimes it just makes it worse. Perhaps it takes wisdom to know the difference. That applies to a lot of situations. But I'm sure keefer fits in there somewhere, lol!

*Chuckles*

Ricorun you've got a point there. I can't tell you how many games I picked up because of some "controversy" over the game. Hell some of these games that were complained about were TERRIBLE and if there wasn't any noise about them made they would never have sold in the first place. *Shrugs*

We're free to complain though so go right ahead.

What these three men said is a direct threat to these women. It isn’t satire. I hope someone pays Opie, Anthony, and Homeless Charlie a visit to explain why this is unacceptable under any circumstance. They are a huge liability. Fire them. Immediately.

cc: I hope someone pays Opie, Anthony, and Homeless Charlie a visit to explain why this is unacceptable under any circumstance.

What are you suggesting... more of the same? Where will it end?

Aarontime, I feel sorry for you! Your life is teetering on a single "feeling"(not a fact by any means), "Bush Lied"! My gosh, you guys are a broken record and someday you'll be dust in the wind. Kinda like the socialist party of France!

Opie & Anthony are knuckleheads that don't deserve an audience, but, as long as they have one, to each his own!

This isnt about free speech, if they have an audience or to each his own. Its about being decent and having respect. It's about rape is a crime and yet people are mockingly discussing raping 2 women and we just shrug our shoulders? Its about what in God's name are we teaching our children when this is the kind of ruthless,spiteful,and hateful example we as the adults set before them. If the children are our future we certainly arent going to have a positive or productive one at this rate. They need to be fired.

Now, if you want to have a debate about regulation, I'm all for it... The fact of the matter is that there is no legal recourse because there are no regulations for satellite radio and, since it was clearly a parody, it isn't counted as slander or a threat (I forgot the trial name, but the Supreme Court ruled along those lines when Larry Flint insinuated that Jerry Falwell committed incest). If you want to organize a boycott, then that also works, but as long as the show is profitable, it's going to be on the air, period. You can do something (boycott, lobby congress for regulation, etc.) about it, or you can sit there and ineffectually bitch about it... your choice.

Oh, and the body count of Iraqi civilians post invasion is between 63k and 69k. Not hundreds of thousands, but still around 63k to 69k too many if you ask me.

And bitching about Keefer never gets anywhere; he's like those geriatric muppets that are always in the balcony... just heckles once in a while... makes a lot of noise and forms words, but never really says anything...

Who even buys XM or Sirius? What a waste of money.

*Raises Hand*

I have XM Radio. It's great for out here in the middle of nowhere where radio stations are limited or cut out every 10 miles. It's also good for the really long friggin drives I have to take to get anywhere. (Hell it's over 1.5 hours to get to my job every day one way!)

Wow, there seems to be an awful lot of certainty out there:

"...and "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqis have not been killed. - keefer

"Oh, and the body count of Iraqi civilians post invasion is between 63k and 69k. Not hundreds of thousands..." - Rana

"...and far less than "hundreds of thousands" of Iraqis have been killed." - keefer again

First, I'll openly admit that it is very difficult to know precisely how many civilians have died in Iraq due to the invasion and subsequent occupation. Part of the problem is that it is difficult to even work in Iraq to do that kind of study, which in itself indicates the magnitude of the horrors there. The other part of the problem is that the US goverment has ordered the Iraqi goverment to stop keeping a tally of civilian dead (well, that's one way to shut down bad news!).

The figure of 63k and 69k is from the respected group "Iraq Body Count", and organization comprised mainly of academics. With due respect, Rana, it must be pointed out that IBC only count civilians who have died of direct violence, and not those who have died who likely wouldn't have under better sanitation conditions, with drinkable water, access to emergency healthcare services, etc. For example, an Iraqi anthropologist who recently completed a book on women in Iraq learned that her aunt had died of a heart condition because the hospital had run out of medication, and the curfew prevented her family from rushing her to the hospital when she started having chest pains. With the level of disruption to basic services, this kind of story is of course repeated thousands of times throughout the country.

Also, the tally compiled by the Iraq Body Count group *only* counts those casualties that are reported in the major newswires. Obviously, in any situation as chaotic as in Iraq, there are many more deaths that are not ever reported to news organizations.

Taking these two points together, the best that can be said about the Iraq Body Count tally of 63k to 69k is that it represents the absolute minimum estimate for the number of civilian deaths. So it is quite within the realm of the probable that the total toll from all invasion-related causes of death actually exceeds 100,000.

Of course, we have all heard of the study published in the respected British Journal Lancet, completed by epidemiologists based on methodology widely used for estimating mortality following natural disasters. Basically, they examined records of rate of dead being brought to morgues prior to Apr, 2003, and compared them to the numbers following. This would give them the % increase in mortality after the conflict compared to before. That method showed that a staggering 655,000 people died who likely would not have had the invasion not occured. Now read that carefully - it does not say that 655,000 were killed directly by the ongoing violence. It says that 655k have died above what the normal pre-invasion rate would have predicted. Or to put it another way, there are 655k people who are now dead who likely would not have been had the invasion not occured.

Of course, the wingnuts, including the mathematically-challenged Mr Bush, immediately and absurdly denounced the methodoloy of the study - even before they could possibly have even read the report. much less understood it! I am not a mathematician either, and have no background in epidemiology, so I cannot directly make an informed critique of the methodology. However, I do know that Lancet is a respected journal where those who do have professional experience with these things must pass rigorous inspection of their work by others who also have much expert training in these matters.

But even if you reject the 655k figure out of hand (because respected scientists Rush, Bush, and Hannity told you to), even the very minimal IBC figure of 63k to 69k (which, as we have discussed, is very likely a substantial under-estimate) is a truly staggering number of dead civilians. Think of it this way: the 69k figure means that many thousands more civilians have died in Iraq since the invasion than US military died in 14 years of combat in Vietnam.

And finally, I would encourage anyone who pretends to care about the plight of civilians in Iraq to read this Sunday's (May 13) cover story of the NYTimes magazine entitled "The Exodus: An Account of the Iraq Refugee Crisis". 2 million Iraqis have fled to other countries since the conflict began, and another 2 million have been displaced internally inside Iraq. This is something that the Bushies desperately want to ignore and suppress, for the simple reason that the fact that 15% of the Iraqi population is fleeing the country is stunning testimony to the complete failure of this Iraq project.

And my original point at the start of this thread remains:

On the one hand, you have unimaginable death and suffering unleashed, followed by a Commander in Chief who actually jokes about it. After all the horrors caused - (tens or hundreds) of thousands dead, and millions more fleeing for their lives, you have Mr Bush doing a skit for the Press corps dinner in which he searches around the oval office for the missing WMD. "Nope, not here! - oh, nope, not over here either. I know those WMD are someplace." There are really no words to describe how hideously disgusting it is to make light of something that has resulted in so many dead and maimed.

And on the other hand, here you Bushbots are getting all twitterpated because some radio jocks joked about boinking Laura? Are you kidding me? THAT'S something to be offended about?

Lets get some perspective here. Which of the two jokes was truly more offensive?

You Bush cultists seem to love to compare Mr Bush to Winston Churchill. That comparison is absurd on so many levels - but lets focus on one by letting me ask you this: can any of you imagine Churchill doing a silly skit joking about the fiasco at Dunkirk? Could you imagine him prancing around saying "Nope, no stranded Brtitish soldiers here. oops, nope, none over here either. I could have sworn they were over there in France somewhere - where oh where could that have gone?..."?

Aarontime, you've hit the nail on the head. Everyone ask yourselves, during WWII, who WOULD have found this Churchill example funny?

Yes, that's right.

And finally, I would encourage anyone who pretends to care about the plight of civilians in Iraq to read this Sunday's (May 13) cover story of the NYTimes magazine entitled "The Exodus: An Account of the Iraq Refugee Crisis".

Why don't you read it, Airheadtime, and report back to us. We know that people are fleeing Iraq in great numbers; it happens when your--not you're or yore--country is in crisis. It's happening in other countries around the world too, and I'm sure the NYT mag will point this out--not!

Aarontime, you've hit the nail on the head. Everyone ask yourselves, during WWII, who WOULD have found this Churchill example funny?

Why don't you ask David Broder...

Yet - others here - such as keefer - cannot go one post without using "asshat", "retard", "failed abortion", "f*cker", "sh*thole", etc...

They all apply, in your case, Dr. Rerun. You claim to be educated, yet you can't comprehend or write basic English. Your basic word usage is appalling; your grammar sucks; therefore, you're a freakin' idiot.

btw, nonetheless is one word, not three. Asshat...

And finally, I would encourage anyone who pretends to care about the plight of civilians in Iraq to read this Sunday's (May 13) cover story of the NYTimes magazine entitled "The Exodus: An Account of the Iraq Refugee Crisis".

Posted by: Aarontime at May 12, 2007 01:43 AM

Why don't you read it, Airheadtime, and report back to us.

Posted by: keefer at May 12, 2007 06:25 AM

Keefer's response, Aarontime, is indicative of the concern that Bush supporters have for the innocent Iraqi citizens caught in the middle of this debacle. The dead and wounded are just so much debris, so much collateral damage and well, you know, that's what occurs during a war. Sh** happens, get over it. What really matters to them is that the U.S. is perceived to be the world leader in charge of everyone else and we sure as hell better not forget it.

CO, I forgot, you guys REALLY care about Iraqi people. Pull out the troops, before Iraq is ready, and we will have hundreds of thousands killed.

Keefer's response was contept for Airhead, not for the Iraqi people. How on earth did you read into it that much?

Airhead, you truely are an idiot. Thats not an opinion. Where do you copy and paste from? Also if we are using logic to determine the total deaths, shouldn't we deduct the number of Iraqi deaths that would have been committed by Saddamm? Actual Iraqi deaths: -30,000

The solution to Opie and Andy is a mass exodus from XM. Every self-respecting conservative should cancel their subscription. If there is an eary termination fee, tell them you refuse to pay it. It's their fault you want to cancel, not yours.

I have been delighted to sit here this morning waiting for my wife's decaf coffee to finish brewing reading at how quickly a conversation about free speech and entertainment choices devolves into what the political Right Wing would like to call Bush Derangement Syndrome. No, not on the part of the Left but on the part of the Reagan worshipping Right so desperate to have an icon to cling to that they would literally sell their immortal souls to this man who is no more than a figurehead for corporate interests who could care less about the foaming middle class white men who make their voices heard in the only safe way that they can by shouting into a hurricane here at Blogs4Bush.

If it takes me the entire day I will respond to every charge here, every juvenile attempt to put down someone who disagrees with what the majority here wishes to say and greater than all this I call out keefer that if he is such a bulldog why not pick on someone closer to his own species and take a stab at this old demon journalist who can, with facts and objectivity make him wish that he had never turned his computer on when fate made him surf over to Blogs4Bush that very first time. Keefer, yes, Mr. Sutherland of “24” fame where a strong all powerful seemingly indestructible middle aged white man with a gun puts down all comers who threaten the conservative United States. They even had a black president on the show. That could be overlooked because they were able to torture Muslims and that makes men like keefer who most certainly gets “bulldogged” at his daily job feel like a really big man. Keefer may even have a female boss, or a Jewish boss or a black boss, whence cometh that anger Keefer? Is there no secret klavern of the KKK in your hometown where your can share your seething vitriol with men and a few ugly women who share your love of NASCAR and cheap beer?

Or are you of the ilk of Dasein Libsbane who is a big time worker in public higher education? Are you just sick of the fact that the vast majority of progressive Americans are sick and tired of your archaic notions of what society should be? Have I offended the owners of this blog enough to have this diatribe deleted? I certainly hope so for someone has to take up the mantle against this sort of destructive foolishness. I can see that many of you just feel frightened that your values are being threatened or that you would feel that you have wasted many years of your life dedicated to values that your so called leaders really only parade to get votes. Betrayal is a very painful thing to deal with. I wonder about humans like kimberly4bush and what a young woman’s motivation to seek the killing of innocent people in Iraq could possibly profit her in America? Is it the abortion issue Kim? Are there no workhouses for people like you who would see Terra overrun with mouths to be fed? Or is it once again the fact that the race for material gain and conspicuous consumption has turned professional white women, middle class white women and poor white to abortion as a method of birth control such that they may continue to flourish in a weakening but still vibrant economy with massive potential for personal gain. That potential is contingent on not having a child that cannot be taken care of by two parents as my wife and I do with our twins. I work from home now she has returned to the corporate life and we are doing well but those are our choices Kim and we would not foist or foment them upon anyone else especially say a young woman like yourself that was not ready to end her single days before she was strapped with marriage, children and house. Stop me if you feel any discomfort. How can Bush give you your life choices back? That hollow feeling that many of you feel in the middle of your chests is the pure power of hegemony that you once held over all that you surveyed. Poor Princella cannot understand for she does not have this burning loss, that strength in the whip hand that could strike down one subservient with a blow so mighty that it could break a Negroes spirit in short order. Princella’s people never held the whip; this is the fear that brown or black people Hispanics, Muslims American Blacks might one day grasp that mantle where they rule and you obey it is a fear like that of a caged animal that you have abused for sport and one day walking by its cage you see that it has picked the lock and run off. You know it will return and when it does it will be hungry not for your flesh but for your Soul and for the Souls of your wife and your children. It will consume your lifestyle and leave you wandering the consumed wastelands of a Terra you no longer recognize praying for Death.

Is this the world you seek keefer? Is there anything you or Dobson, or Bush, or Cheney, or the CEO of Exxon Mobil can do to stop it? Nothing, nothing at all can be done because you have lit the fuse many years ago with your corporate energy demand dreams and capitalist wish lists that included the rape of nations like Iraq. Oh, I have seen what massive destruction a military machine like that of the USA can do. There are far more than a mere 100.000 dead Iraqis, oh my dear yes indeed. It will be noted, in the history of the future of Terra that one million Iraqis will have died as a direct result of the invasion of Iraq by the United States of America. That would be the equivalent of 11 and one half million Americans perishing in a four year period as a result of a military occupation in and around Washington DC, Baltimore, New York City and Philadelphia. How long do you think Americans would stand for the Chinese occupying your East Coast? When would former military people start seeking help from the Mexican government to smuggle washing machine timers across the border along with the explosives with which to make IEDs? What if the Chinese did nothing to protect weak suburban white from street wise blacks and Hispanics released into the population from jails run as racial genocide projects by the former capitalist masters?

That scenario too much for you? Sorry for that is exactly what the US has done in Iraq to find the Weapons of Mass Destruction. And yes Bush lied, I could not give care what sort of derangement you think I have the man and all those around him decided to manufacture a premise upon which the American people would support a war against Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein from power. Saddam Hussein a man I might add who could tell some truly horrible truths about Bush Sr and the US government who aided him in his war with Iran. Why bypass huge stockpiles of weapons to run to Saddam’s palaces and secure tons of documents? Well those documents were the weapons of mass destruction and somewhere on a few thousand of them was the proof that US companies sold to the Iraqi government components of Saddam’s long dead chemical and biological warfare program. Had those been found by say, reporters milling around in one of palaces what would have been the fallout?

Many of these questions are too much for people who think only about their house or their car or their position over those beneath them at work. It must be tough to be a republican these days appearing to be intractable, moribund and yet being that mesmerized Nazi-worshipper “base” having to feel energized about your leaders who are murderers who say clearly with their actions the lives of Americans are worth more than the lives of innocent people in any other country on Terra. How insane this is. Now in America people will have a choice. A choice between government as it was for the better part of the Bush administration where the Right Wing and its corporate and religious masters sought to overthrown the process and the democracy itself in a shadowy coup d’etat that would lead to the overturn of Roe v Wade, its only and blindly adhered to goal, or deal with progressive Democrats like Nancy Pelosi who seek to bring America just left of center for generally that is as far left as a capitalist America will ever go.

It is with great glee that I announce that the experiment with American neo-conservatism has ended with a partial birth abortion of the ill conceived notion that the United States of America is a nation of bible believing conservative majorities scattered all across the “heartland” when it is really a nation of people living their lives with their own personal and private beliefs who do not seek to trumpet them at you on every street corner or write their faith into every law in every hamlet from Bangor to Bakersfield. This is the one and only abortion that I can say I am proud to have borne witness to and that had certainly to be performed to save Lady Liberty. Planned Parenthood should for this be lavished with federal funds.

Cavalor Epthith, Esquire
Editor-in-Chief
The Dis Brimstone-Daily Pitchfork
103 Colnu 1 AS

Don't you people know that the Iraqi people were better off under Saddam?

I love the way libs ignored the deaths of the civilians during his reign but, when they are out of power......the gloves come off.

Remember, CNN ignored the atrocities in Iraq and purposely withheld news of them so they could stay in country.

So, Aaron is assigning blame to Bush for EVERY single Iraqi death....and why?

Politics......

Don't you people know that the Iraqi people were better off under Saddam?

I love the way libs ignored the deaths of the civilians during his reign but, when they are out of power......the gloves come off.

Posted by: TiredofLibBullShit at May 12, 2007 08:01 AM

Tired

No one in their right mind thinks that the people of Iraq were better off under the despot, Saddam. All we are asking is why do Bush supporters think the number of dead under Saddam is horrific while the number of dead since the American invasion is of little or no significance, regardless of how high the number.

TiredofLibBullShit -

"I love the way libs ignored the deaths of the civilians during his reign but, when they are out of power......the gloves come off."

The only ones who ignored the deaths of civilians under Saddam were you conservatives. Human rights groups (which you all despise) were condemning Saddam for years, but conservatives here in the US ignored them, and only ever spat ridicule at the idea of human rights. Aftre all, human rights were something only hopelessly starry-eyed, naive, namby-pamby liberals care about, while level-headed conservatives practice "realpolitik" - right?

All of Saddam's horrible crimes make you wonder why future Bushies in the Reagan administration - the very ones who were the architects of this war - were so chummy with him. After all, the worst of Saddam's abuses occured in the late 80's, when he used gas on the Kurds. At the time of the gassing, the entire civilized world was up in arms about it, decrying the mass killings and use of chemical weapons - all except the US, which looked the other way and quietly lobbied the security council against punitive actions against Saddam, all the while continuing to meet with him, do business with him, and funnel intel and supplies to him.

Yes, you Bushbots have only ever spat ridicule at the idea of human rights. For obviously self-serving reasons, it was only after the invasion of Iraq that you Bushies suddenly feigned interest in the long history of crimes against Iraqi civilians, after all the other manufactured justifications for this war have proved illusional. The gassing of the Kurds happened 20 years ago, and the retribution against the Shi'a occured 15 years ago. Why didn't any of you care about any of this... you know... at the time it actually happened? What is this? - some sort of delayed compassion reaction?

Let me ask you a question, Tired. For the sake of argument, lets that say in 2002 the Bush administration had stashed all of this non-sense about "mushroom clouds", ties to 9/11, Brit intel about Nigerian uranium that they Bushies knew were based on forged docs - lets just for a minute say that Bush made none of those arguments. Lets say instead that Bush merely had come to you and your fellow conservatives and simply argued, "We've got to invade Iraq put a stop to Saddam abusing his people. We've got to spend half a trillion dollars of your taxes and get 3,400 US soldiers killed because we're so concerned about the plight of Iraqi women, and because Amnesty International has documented gross human rights abuses in Iraq." Would you have agreed to this invasion?

Nope. Didn't think so.

No one is denying the Saddam was a horrific dictator who killed thousands. But the very real horrors of life under Saddam almost pale now in comparison to the current horrors that have been unleashed by this ill-conceieved invasion and occupation. 4 million people do not risk the dangers of fleeing their homes and becoming refugees unless something truly awful is occuring. The number of refugees is currently many times more than it was under Saddam, and that is a stunning indictment of an invasion that has been retroactively sold as a human rights mission. And there is no reason to assume that our continued military presence in Iraq is doing anything to help this human catastrophe, nor will it prevent an even bigger one from occuring later.

I should change my moniker to "TiredofConservativeBullShit".

I should change my moniker to "TiredofConservativeBullShit".

Don't forget to add "Esquire" to the end of it, so's you can appear to be intelligent. Doesn't matter what you change your name to--you'll always be known here as "Airheadtime, Loser of the Century."

CO, if you can come up with an easier way to fight terrorism without civilians dying, please share it with us. We know you're a pussified pacifist, and that the libs in your country couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper sack, so I guess your answer will fall far short of anything logical. I care about all life, loser, but survival of the fittest is the order of the day.

I'm afraid we, or some other country, is gonna have to be hit again, and hard, for these loser kook libs to get it. And I'm not sure they'd get it then. What a bunch of brain-dead toads...

I agree keefer, it's going to take another attack on US soil on the level of 9/11 to wake people up. of course you'll still have some people that'll think Bush was behind that as well, but It would greatly increase support for the mission. Unfortunatley most of the media plays-down terrorist plannings that go on in the US, such as the Fort Dix six. Notice not alot of coverage on that (except FOX), and virtually no one mentions that 3 of them were illegal aliens. (GO OPEN BORDES!)(except Fox), oh yeah, Fox is biased though so you cant trust them.(sarcasm)This is a sad time for our country. I'm buying all the guns I can!

keefer -

Actually, I did try to change my moniker to "TiredofConservativeBullShit", but I found out that the name has already been taken... by about 250 million other Americans.

CO, if you can come up with an easier way to fight terrorism without civilians dying, please share it with us.

Posted by: keefer at May 12, 2007 04:11 PM

How about hunting down the perpetrators of the terrorists' acts on an individual basis and give up invading entire countries altogether? You could avoid putting innocent citizens at risk and you would not have to kill the patient to cure the disease.

Zachster -

"...it's going to take another attack on US soil on the level of 9/11 to wake people up."

Zach Zach Zach - please get your head out of your petootey. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, invading Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and staying in Iraq has nothing to do with preventing another 9/11.

There may well be at some point another successful terrorist attack on the US. However, the US occupation of Iraq does nothing to make that less likely. In fact, there is a lot of evidence that our continued presence in Iraq only makes us less able to prevent or respond to an attack. Not to mention, we've created a whole 'nuther several million people in that region of the world who now absolutely despise us (think all the relatives of all those tens of thousands - or perhaps hundreds of thousands - of dead Iraqi civilians. How would you feel if you were one of them?)

If an attack does happen, it won't be because we didn't invade enough countries in the middle east who had nothing to do with 9/11, and it won't be because we didn't stay occupying those countries long enough. An attack very well may, however, be because half a trillion dollars has been sunk into making a mess in Iraq, while very little money has gone into security at home. Almost 6 years after 9/11, our ports continue to unload thousands of uninspected containers a day, and our chemical plants continue without any security regulations on them - all the while our armed forces and first responders are bogged down making enemies we needn't have and empowering the enemies we already had.

The risk of terrorist attack is something we all have to accept as a possibility, something we need to prepare for, and something we need to do our utmost to prevent. But mitigating that risk is primarily the task of law enforcement. Case in point were the ding dong wannabe terrorists you mentioned who fancied they would attack Fort Dix - they were captured by good old fashion law enforcement activity, and not because the Bushies invaded Iraq, or skirted the FISA laws, or tortured prisoners, or suspended habeas corpus.

Again, we live in a dangerous world. You and your scared little cohort here need to stop peeing your pants over it like little girls. And that's exactly what this rush to invade Iraq was: an irrational, fearful, pee-your-pants kind of response that ended up doing a lot of harm to everyone, while doing absolutely nothing to combat terrorism.

If you are so hot to fight the GWOT, great - lets get on with it. But combatting terrorists is not the same thing as invading random countries because you're scared sh*tless and easily manipulated by Daddy Cheney. He and his ilk appealed to your worse, most fearful, and basest instincts. It may make you feel better to cause all that death and destruction, but it does less than nothing to fight terrorism. It is time for you to grow up Zach.

Keep your head in the sand Aaron! It's the only way to hide the "scared s**tless" look on your face. You fool absolutely no one!

The only ones who ignored the deaths of civilians under Saddam were you conservatives. Human rights groups (which you all despise) were condemning Saddam for years, but conservatives here in the US ignored them, and only ever spat ridicule at the idea of human rights. Aftre all, human rights were something only hopelessly starry-eyed, naive, namby-pamby liberals care about, while level-headed conservatives practice "realpolitik" - right?

Wrong Airy, We actually care also! The difference between US & you, is that we know what needs to be done to accomplish human rights and we are willing to make the sacrifices neccessary. So, you libs just carry on with all your marches and bull crap fundraising, while "We the people" actually get our hands dirty getting the job done! Eh Airy, did you ever serve your country in the military with the Heart to go and set free the Kuwaiti's or Iraqi's or Somoli's, or Afghani's? I have, and I know a whole bunch of like minded men and women who put you to shame just by breathing the same air as you! Pathetic! Tell me Airy, how much money did you raise for the poor people of Iraq when they suffered under Saddam? 1,000, 10,000, 100,000$? No? Well if you had, how the hell where you going to get it past Saddams pockets and to the people? Where you going to use the money to get into Iraq and set the children free that were in Iraqi prisons? I hope you are getting the point, being a lib has it's disadvantages (thick skulls). Tell me, aside from raising money & notifying the world (and then doing nothing), what do these Human rights groups do? Oh yah, Like the U.N. they go in and line their pockets with sex slaves and deals with renegade leaders, etc. Boy you guys are just amazing, if it weren't for you, where would we be today!!! *sigh*

bearmanUSMC -

"We actually care also! The difference between US & you, is that we know what needs to be done to accomplish human rights and we are willing to make the sacrifices neccessary."

Right - I know you stayed awake at night thinking about what "needs to be done to accomplish human rights" in Iraq.

Tell me, how many times have you all been in favor of invading countries to "accomplish human rights"? And how much were you "sacrificing" when the Reagan and Bush I administrations were weapons dealers to Saddam? Shouldn't you have lept to invade Iraq back then, when most of his crimes were actually perpetrated?

No matter how you bluster and posture and try to portray yourselves as tough defenders of human rights, the only thing you have accomplished in Iraq is a humanitarian disaster of staggering and heart-breaking porportions. That's YOU. You did that. You and your scared ilk quickly and gleeful jumped on board this rush to invasion - and you weren't talking anything about human rights when you did it.

Well, congratulations. How does it feel to have caused so much horror, misery and death all because you let your fear, panic, and ego take over what's left of your neocortex - eh bear "man"?

I suppose you should be proud. Saddam was one horrible dictator who thought nothing of killing any number of people - and yet, you've managed to outdo even him. It is quite a remakable accomplishment to have so severely screwed things up, and to have unleashed so much violence and death (all predictable and predicted, I might add), that even someone as truly heinous as Saddam is pales in comparison with what you hath wrought. Congrats - it is not everyday that a "human rights" crusade succeeds in making even the likes of Saddam Hussein preferable. The Iraqi people thank you destroying their lives.

You just can't get your head around this, can you? You and your ilk were small, terrified cowards - and that's how our great nation rushed into a destructive and needless war that has forever tarnished our national honor. You brag about your patriotism, and yet you hand-wringing nellies have done more to harm this country than any of any of our enemies of the last hundred years could possibly dream of. Are you proud of that?

NO, I don't think you are proud of that. No wonder, then, you are in such denial. One day, you will have to face up to the horrors you have caused and the dishonor you have brought upon us all.

ATime:
Gee, did you switch your meds? scary...
And if you think Laura Bush is dim...then you are either more pathetic than I thought..or just totally classless. your Momma must be so proud!!

Airy, The last thing I am is "scared", the first thing I was was angry, the second thing......I was smart enough to come to grips with reality (Something that still, to this day evades you). You libs live a dream world with cinderella and Snow white, everything always turns out ok in the end, all you have to do is sit back and watch.

You didn't answer a single question about your much touted Human Right watchdogs & what they have accomplished.

It doesn't matter how much you try to blame America for the horrors in Iraq, in the end, you will still be the kool-aid drinker and I will have followed my conscience & will be satisfied with that.

Question for you Aaron, are you an "Angry white female", or an "Angry white male", just curious.

bearman -

Whether it was fear or anger, your response was one of emotion. Combine these emotions with your general ignorance about the middle east and a complete lack of critical, skeptical thinking, and you have the recipe for getting easily manipulated.

Again, are you proud to have been a puppet? Does it soothe your conscience to know you were a cheeleading collaborator - one of many - in this colossally tragic blunder?

Face it - staying in Iraq has now become for you and all your fellow cheerleaders (and for Bush himself) a desperate attempt to avoid facing up to your complicity in the deaths of tens of thousands for. no. good. reason. It's a simple case of denial to protect your fragile psyche from this horrific realization. And it's a really crappy reason to ask more people to die for.

I see Errortime is up to his silly old tricks. Quoting bogus "statistics" is a favorite tactic of the LLL, as is trying to relate the unrelated. And of course there is the effort to protray those of us who think some things are just too filthy to be accepted as prudes, trying to diminish the awfulness of what was said by making fun of those who are objecting to it.

All directly out of the LLL playbook, and oh so typical of Errortime, who has never had an original thought in his life but who can cough up the regurgitative material on cue.

So, Error, what exactly is your source on all these "civilians" killed in Iraq? Oh, and a few more queries on that front.
1. How are casualties identified as "civilians"? Because they weren't wearing uniforms?
2. Who, exactly is killing all these people? So typical of the radical Left to blame US for what others do.
3. Who is counting? Are you completely SURE these tallies are done by objective witnesses who really just want the truth to be told? No agenda?
Verification" No staging of scenes, or padding of figures?

yeah, right. Pull the other one, why don't you.

And if rape is such an overwhelming and vicious tragedy to any woman who suffers it, to the point where she can not only NEVER GET OVER IT but is so completely and permanently traumatized that the only thing she can possibly do to make herself feel better is to kill the innocent product of that rape, how is it that it's just fine and dandy to suddenly call it "humor" when it is in reference to prominent conservative women?

Or some women DESERVE to be used and abused this way, because they are not Liberals?

And what does the record, or philosophy, or color of eyes, of a woman's HUSBAND have to do with whether it is OK to have a little "fun" by speculating about assaulting her in a violent criminal act?

I heard the comments, and I found them foul and disgusting. But what you LLLs seem to not get at all, probably because the 'skit' reflected so much of what YOU are really about, is that the idiot going on and on about this said something about showing one of these victims what a "real man" is. Oh yeah? A "real man" is incapable of utttering more than three words in a row without resorting to common and low vulgarity? More to the point, to the appreciators and defenders of this kind of rant, a "real man' has to beat and subdue and physically overwhem a woman to even be able to achieve any kind of sexual intimacy with her, and is so inexperienced that he thinks this is sex. Listening to Homeless Charlie, I had no doubt that this was HIS version of seduction, and that even this was no more than a fantasy, as no woman could stand to be near him unless she was beaten into submission.

The hoots and snorts of laughter had to come from equally committed losers. They reminded me of young boys bragging about sex when it is obvious they have never even come close to it, without locking the bathroom door first.

Remember, one of the biggest punch lines was the hysterical laughter about the look of horror on the woman's face as she was raped. A real knee-slapper, that one. My thought was that Charlie's already SEEN thatlook of horror, on the face of every woman he has talked to, or who has inadvertently gotten close enough to get a whiff of the kind of breath that has to come out of a mouth that foul.

This is one of those situtions that draws a very big line in the sand, and to be on the Opie and Anthony side is to be on the side of losers and perverts and scum. Simple as that.

And anyone---ANYONE---who found it humorous has laid claim to territory on that side of the line.

And BTW, this is not about Iraq, or Bush, or BDS, or goofball radical Left propaganda, or even the sheep who eat it all up and beg for more. It is about a foul-mouthed incoherent loser publicly indulging in an elaborate fantasy about violently and viciously sexually attacking and harming women just because of their poltical orientation, and finding a slavering audience for this kind of sick obsession.

Hmmm. I wonder how you apologists would have felt if the targets of Charlie's impotent rage were chosen because of their color. Or because they were radical liberal feminists.... But you see, to the looniest of the loony left, the true LLL contingent, hate is so overpowering, and so applauded by their kind, that it excuses anything, and there are no boundaries to the expression of their rabid loathing, because anyone who is not THEM "deserves it".

BTW, it comes as no surpise at all that kblack and errortime just love this kind of thing, and find it no more than humor, just a little innocent fun. It is very consistent with what they have shown us about themselves in the past.

BTW, I have come to the conclusion that the only balls kblack and error and CO have are of the crytal ball variety, the kind that makes them think they can somehow see into the hearts and minds of others to know, somehow, what they REALLY think, why they REALLY do what they do, and even what they WOULD do, or WOULD HAVE done, in spite of facts and evidence.

The corrosiveness of such overwhelming hatred is evident, as they both are so committed to a hate-based agenda that they simply can't see ANYTHING except through the prisms of loathing and negativity. I slogged through their Lefty manifestos of lies, idiocy, and garbage, and could feel only pity for the kind of mind that chooses to seek out and then wallow in such inmitigated slime.

Though it does go a long way to explaining the attraction, to the likes of these, of characters such as Opie and Anthony and their buddy Charlie. Birds of a feather, and all that.