Was demonstrated on this date in 1912.
It is things like that which make be glad of this:
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,
begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation, he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered died and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.
Amen.
Puts the transient things of life in perspective...do remember that everyone who was on the Titanic on that day is now dead...it didn't, in the end, matter if you survived. It only mattered how you lived before you died.
Posted by Mark Noonan at April 12, 2007 03:35 AM
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Satan is smarter than atheists. He knows God exists.
Posted by: Freedom1 at April 12, 2007 04:00 AM
There are actually 2 Titanic survivors still living, I think.
Posted by: Josh at April 12, 2007 08:09 AM
Very important to keep this in mind.
Posted by: Bret Helm at April 12, 2007 10:34 AM
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth
The Folly of Faith in Created Things
Posted by: Aitch at April 12, 2007 10:42 AM
I'm pretty sure there are 2 survivors of the Titanic still alive.
Posted by: Josh at April 12, 2007 01:37 PM
Does this also apply if yo are a Hindu? how about a buddahist? any other religion?
Posted by: Amp at April 12, 2007 03:23 PM
Since we're talking about God and not really debating anything constructive, I have a question to ask the believers of y'all...
Does God command actions of his followers because the actions are moral, or are actions moral because God commands his followers to do them?
The two possible answers are mutually exclusive, so you can't simply say "both." I'd be interested to make a debate about the origins of morality...
Posted by: Rana Quijotesca at April 12, 2007 03:40 PM
Mark (et al):
I agreed with all that is in there except for 2 parts.
1) "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church." I am not exactly sure what that means as I don't agree that the Catholic canon is equal with the Bible. If something is in the canon that is not consistent with the Bible, then the Bible should trump the canon. Nevertheless, as a protestant, I believe that it is believers that will be saved (John 3:16 says so) and all people I know in the Catholic church are believers, so your salvation is secure.
2) "It only mattered how you lived before you died." Not really. It is what you believed that ultimately matters. How you lived affects your witness and your sphere of influence, but God's grace secures salvation. To say otherwise is to imply that the cross was not enough. Yikes! 2 Corinthians 5:10 talks about a Believer's judgement where we will all (believers only) appear before Christ where He will judge us (non-punitive mind you) for the things you did in the flesh. In other words, how did you steward your life? Did you use the gifts and talents God gave you to use for His people, or did you waste them. Rewards (often referred to as crowns) lay in wait for those that were "good and faithful servants."
I get giddy and scared all at the same time for THAT day and because of that, I live for THAT day today.
To answer Rana, I am not sure where you are going with your question, but here is the premise to which you should base your answer. If God desires a relationship with each of us and sent Jesus so that we would have the abundant life, then it only makes sense that He would author commandments as a baseline for behavior. As for moral code? Forget morality for a moment and just look at the 10 commandments. If any one of them is broken, what are the possible consequences? It is easier to see consequences that are not exactly rosy for people who steal, cheat, lie, envy, etc. So, I guess the best way to answer your question is the second premise. Essentially, since God said it and authored it, it must be so.
Posted by: voiceofreason at April 12, 2007 06:10 PM
VOR
Catholic in it's meaning,is Universal.
Therefore the prayer is inclusive of Christs church = (Roman) (coptic) (protostant) etc. ALL followers of Jesus.
Not of a demoninational "doctorine".
Posted by: FmrMarine at April 12, 2007 07:05 PM
Bad way of thinking.
The longer a good person lives, the more he/she contributes to the world.
Posted by: Christian Wright at April 12, 2007 09:32 PM
VoR,
Fmr Marine answered it - and you'll note that it is "small c" catholic...we who acknowledge the authority of the Bishop of Rome call ourselves Catholic because, once upon a time, there wasn't anything but the Catholic Church. It is the position of the Church that we Christians are all members of the mystical Body of Christ...some of us are just in more correct relation to it than others...and I never, ever argue with my brothers and sisters in Christ about who has it more right.
As for how you live - faith without works is a dead thing, right? What I meant by that, though, was that it doesn't matter how or when you die...what your life is at the moment of death is determinative. Certainly it is entirely the unmerited saving grace which lifts us from sin to salvation...but if you have answered the call and are living your life as you are supposed to, then when death comes - now or 50 years from now - it will be a trifle; death is an enormity to those who haven't answered the call and aren't living as they are supposed to.
CW,
Even the most convinced atheist neo-Darwinist has to admit that the world is doomed - we Christians think it doomed because God told us it is and that there will come a day of Judgement, after which the saved will enjoy the life of the world to come. An atheist has to believe it doomed because there's no way to reverse the processes of decay - this world, come what may, will one day be quite dead...and what will matter then even if you lived 10,000 years?
Amp,
I would suggest to my Hindu brothers and sisters that they dare to just spend a day reading the Gospel.
Aitch,
My faith is in the Creator, not in what he has created. This instruction I take from God.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at April 12, 2007 11:51 PM
OK Mark. Thanks for the clarity on the catholic thing, but I am still a bit troubled about the "Jesus plus" I am hearing.
You state that death is an enormity to those who haven't answered the call and aren't living as they are supposed to. So are you saying that those that have answered the call still have conditional salvation? That can't possibly be and isn't biblically sound. We have the right to judge other's behaviors and act appropriately within our judicial system, but to say that we know what is good enough (the "and" part of your statement above), is nearly herecy. I liken that to saying to God, "Thank you for Jesus on the cross and I recognize that wasn't enough so I will be good." To which His reply would be, "I did enough that 1 time. You don't understand 1) how much I love you and 2) need to go look up the word Grace (unmerited favor). You, a sinner, could never do enough good so do good because I want people to see Jesus in you, but don't do it to try and secure your salvation. That is futile and if you could, well, you would boast about it and that robs Me of My Glory, which btw, is why you are on earth to begin with-to glorify Me."
I believe that God is the final judge for salvation and He has made it clear in the Word. Let's say the "and" is legitimately true, how good does good have to be? Do you know? I certainly don't and have nowhere to go in the Bible that spells that out. John 3:16 says "all those who believe" not "all those who believe AND are good." Jesus said himself, "No one is good except the Father." Why do I say this and make this point? Simple.
Once I learned to quit worrying about my behavior as it relates to salvation, the sooner I was able to start living a life that is Romans 12:1, pleasing to the Master.
Posted by: voiceofreason at April 13, 2007 12:23 PM
Rana,
The origin of morality.
Friend there's only one origin of good and that's God Almighty himself. He is the Beginning and the End the First and the Last.
In Him is Light and there is no darkness.
Only His Son Jesus Christ was the perfect sinless gift to human kind. He so loved Rana that he gave His only begotten son that Rana could have everlasting Life."
That's wonderful.
Did you know that God commands his followers to be perfect.
"Be ye perfect even as your father which is in heaven is also perfect."
He said it I believe it and we can live a life without sin. That's morality. Perfection comes through being obedient to Jesus Christ and his word, walking in the light as He is in the light.
Praise the Lord for His Goodness!
Posted by: truthisright at April 13, 2007 07:56 PM
VoR,
This is as far as I'll go into that - lest I violate my own rule and argue with a brother in Christ while the very concept of Christianity is under attack by the godless:
Like the apostle Paul, I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling. I pray to be saved, I am being saved, I am saved.
I don't argue matters theological...God will sort us all out at the End, and there will be some surprises...those who say "Lord, Lord" and are told that Our Lord knew them not, eg. Meanwhile, those of us who have knelt before Our Lord and tried our best to follow his commands and teaching will have a grand laugh about the silly things we disagreed about before the Last Day.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at April 13, 2007 08:54 PM
Order Matt and Mark's book on Amazon or Barnes and Noble
Satan is smarter than atheists. He knows God exists.
There are actually 2 Titanic survivors still living, I think.
Very important to keep this in mind.
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth
The Folly of Faith in Created Things
I'm pretty sure there are 2 survivors of the Titanic still alive.
Does this also apply if yo are a Hindu? how about a buddahist? any other religion?
Since we're talking about God and not really debating anything constructive, I have a question to ask the believers of y'all...
Does God command actions of his followers because the actions are moral, or are actions moral because God commands his followers to do them?
The two possible answers are mutually exclusive, so you can't simply say "both." I'd be interested to make a debate about the origins of morality...
Mark (et al):
I agreed with all that is in there except for 2 parts.
1) "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church." I am not exactly sure what that means as I don't agree that the Catholic canon is equal with the Bible. If something is in the canon that is not consistent with the Bible, then the Bible should trump the canon. Nevertheless, as a protestant, I believe that it is believers that will be saved (John 3:16 says so) and all people I know in the Catholic church are believers, so your salvation is secure.
2) "It only mattered how you lived before you died." Not really. It is what you believed that ultimately matters. How you lived affects your witness and your sphere of influence, but God's grace secures salvation. To say otherwise is to imply that the cross was not enough. Yikes! 2 Corinthians 5:10 talks about a Believer's judgement where we will all (believers only) appear before Christ where He will judge us (non-punitive mind you) for the things you did in the flesh. In other words, how did you steward your life? Did you use the gifts and talents God gave you to use for His people, or did you waste them. Rewards (often referred to as crowns) lay in wait for those that were "good and faithful servants."
I get giddy and scared all at the same time for THAT day and because of that, I live for THAT day today.
To answer Rana, I am not sure where you are going with your question, but here is the premise to which you should base your answer. If God desires a relationship with each of us and sent Jesus so that we would have the abundant life, then it only makes sense that He would author commandments as a baseline for behavior. As for moral code? Forget morality for a moment and just look at the 10 commandments. If any one of them is broken, what are the possible consequences? It is easier to see consequences that are not exactly rosy for people who steal, cheat, lie, envy, etc. So, I guess the best way to answer your question is the second premise. Essentially, since God said it and authored it, it must be so.
VOR
Catholic in it's meaning,is Universal.
Therefore the prayer is inclusive of Christs church = (Roman) (coptic) (protostant) etc. ALL followers of Jesus.
Not of a demoninational "doctorine".
Bad way of thinking.
The longer a good person lives, the more he/she contributes to the world.
VoR,
Fmr Marine answered it - and you'll note that it is "small c" catholic...we who acknowledge the authority of the Bishop of Rome call ourselves Catholic because, once upon a time, there wasn't anything but the Catholic Church. It is the position of the Church that we Christians are all members of the mystical Body of Christ...some of us are just in more correct relation to it than others...and I never, ever argue with my brothers and sisters in Christ about who has it more right.
As for how you live - faith without works is a dead thing, right? What I meant by that, though, was that it doesn't matter how or when you die...what your life is at the moment of death is determinative. Certainly it is entirely the unmerited saving grace which lifts us from sin to salvation...but if you have answered the call and are living your life as you are supposed to, then when death comes - now or 50 years from now - it will be a trifle; death is an enormity to those who haven't answered the call and aren't living as they are supposed to.
CW,
Even the most convinced atheist neo-Darwinist has to admit that the world is doomed - we Christians think it doomed because God told us it is and that there will come a day of Judgement, after which the saved will enjoy the life of the world to come. An atheist has to believe it doomed because there's no way to reverse the processes of decay - this world, come what may, will one day be quite dead...and what will matter then even if you lived 10,000 years?
Amp,
I would suggest to my Hindu brothers and sisters that they dare to just spend a day reading the Gospel.
Aitch,
My faith is in the Creator, not in what he has created. This instruction I take from God.
OK Mark. Thanks for the clarity on the catholic thing, but I am still a bit troubled about the "Jesus plus" I am hearing.
You state that death is an enormity to those who haven't answered the call and aren't living as they are supposed to. So are you saying that those that have answered the call still have conditional salvation? That can't possibly be and isn't biblically sound. We have the right to judge other's behaviors and act appropriately within our judicial system, but to say that we know what is good enough (the "and" part of your statement above), is nearly herecy. I liken that to saying to God, "Thank you for Jesus on the cross and I recognize that wasn't enough so I will be good." To which His reply would be, "I did enough that 1 time. You don't understand 1) how much I love you and 2) need to go look up the word Grace (unmerited favor). You, a sinner, could never do enough good so do good because I want people to see Jesus in you, but don't do it to try and secure your salvation. That is futile and if you could, well, you would boast about it and that robs Me of My Glory, which btw, is why you are on earth to begin with-to glorify Me."
I believe that God is the final judge for salvation and He has made it clear in the Word. Let's say the "and" is legitimately true, how good does good have to be? Do you know? I certainly don't and have nowhere to go in the Bible that spells that out. John 3:16 says "all those who believe" not "all those who believe AND are good." Jesus said himself, "No one is good except the Father." Why do I say this and make this point? Simple.
Once I learned to quit worrying about my behavior as it relates to salvation, the sooner I was able to start living a life that is Romans 12:1, pleasing to the Master.
Rana,
The origin of morality.
Friend there's only one origin of good and that's God Almighty himself. He is the Beginning and the End the First and the Last.
In Him is Light and there is no darkness.
Only His Son Jesus Christ was the perfect sinless gift to human kind. He so loved Rana that he gave His only begotten son that Rana could have everlasting Life."
That's wonderful.
Did you know that God commands his followers to be perfect.
"Be ye perfect even as your father which is in heaven is also perfect."
He said it I believe it and we can live a life without sin. That's morality. Perfection comes through being obedient to Jesus Christ and his word, walking in the light as He is in the light.
Praise the Lord for His Goodness!
VoR,
This is as far as I'll go into that - lest I violate my own rule and argue with a brother in Christ while the very concept of Christianity is under attack by the godless:
Like the apostle Paul, I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling. I pray to be saved, I am being saved, I am saved.
I don't argue matters theological...God will sort us all out at the End, and there will be some surprises...those who say "Lord, Lord" and are told that Our Lord knew them not, eg. Meanwhile, those of us who have knelt before Our Lord and tried our best to follow his commands and teaching will have a grand laugh about the silly things we disagreed about before the Last Day.