Princella,

Personally, I only listen to polls when they correspond to my limited view of reality.

Cheers!

So, how do you like those numbers, from the Pew, not a right-wing kook poll. How do you like those numbers, you kookified lib cut-and-runners? Huh? Huh? Huh?

Look forward to your response...

Eric, you and GT sitting in a dark basement strong with the aroma of musk does NOT constitute the "public".

Cheers!

All those numbers mean nothing, since the America people gave the Dems a mandate on 11/7/06.

I have got to stay away from those left wing talking points web sites.

Look forward to your response...
Posted by: keefer at April 28, 2007 12:23 PM

Look forward to your response.

Navydad, Spook, Bacon--let's make an effort to ignore any troll who uses the above to close their post. Besides, who can make out any of JAT's hyeroglyphics(sp?), anyway?
Posted by: keefer at April 26, 2007 05:14 PM

Welcome to the troll patrol, keefer.

All right I can play this number game as welll

Only 24% of Americans approve of the way GWB is handling Iraq

64% of Americans favor a timetable for pull out on Iraq

57% percent of Americans believe that Congress should control troop levels while only 35% believe the president should

only 12% of Americans believe that the situation in Iraq has gotten better since the Surge started 49% percent worse, 37% the same

48% think increased troop levels is making no difference

while 56% think that there is no possible victory for the US in Iraq 10% are unsure and only 36% believe it is possible..

CBS April 24th, ABC News April 20th

So lets summarize Princella - most Americans believe that there should be a time table for withdrawal, that the surge isn't working, and that "victory" is not possible

I agree with you that most Americans don't want all troops to leave in a few hours - but other than that its pretty clear where people stand on this..

Not that it really mattes - as it is the Iraqi people we should be polling and they have an even more strong stance in this which is anti-bush

And who was the pollster kblack? You listed two MSM channels, but not who did the polls for them - or which numbers went with which poll. Makes your numbers look suspicious. You must have just come from a lib site, having gotten your daily talking points.

Keefer,

The problem with the data is the word immediate not the word withdrawal. I personally think it would be catastrophic to withdraw the troops starting right now which is something that could not be done anyway. Even if the troops were to be removed based on a March 31, 2008 timetable it would be well into 2009 before the commander of forces could board a helo and head to Kuwait or Qatar.

Also the Pew numbers stress "immediate" withdrawal not a timetable that gives the surge a year to work and the Iraqis to stand up for themselves. At best this is a plum talking point from the Corner @ NRO at worst it is meant to deceive the relatively uneducated blog reader. Having torn through the Pew site I can find no correlative evidence of such a poll or a survey that gives results for 17% of the American people polled saying they support an immediate withdrawal. What I did find was data to support that 17% of Republicans support immediate withdrawal from Iraq along with another 15% supporting a departure timetable of the kind in the appropriations bill that President Bush says he will veto. This data was found at Rasmussen Reports.

At Polling Report I did find data but most here are not going to like it. Especially the last Pew numbers which Princella Smith conveniently left out to the question:

"If U.S. troops remain in Iraq for many years, would it make a terrorist attack in the U.S. more likely, less likely, or not make a difference?"

In this poll done by Pew, 41% answered “more likely” to this question. And to clarify what Smith wrote regarding the likelihood of terror attacks in the US if troops left Iraq a combined 50% said there would be No difference (43%) or more likely (7%). 59% said the military effort in Iraq was “not going very well at all” (25%) or “not too well” (34%).

Still, I would like to have Ms Smith produce where the 17% number came from other than the talking point on the Corner @ NRO site. The CBS news poll mention is also erroneous. The 33% number comes from a survey done regarding immediate withdrawal.

The numbers from Public Opinion Strategies are not something a serious journalist would consider without stating that POS is a Glen Bolger run GOP polling shop. Regarding the Time poll of March 27, 2007 Princella Smith fails to note that only 28% of those surveyed stated that the troops should remain in Iraq as long as needed or until the Iraqis can handle the situation for themselves. Her reference gives the illusion that the other 68% of the poll respondents support the troops remaining in Iraq.

On the war funding CBS poll what Smith misses once again is the word timetable. Most Americans favor supporting the troops with funding AND with a timetable for beginning a withdrawal (64%).

And finally I find it odd the Washington Post itself has a poll with ABC News on April 12-15 of this Terran year stating the 1114 people surveyed trusted the Democratic Congress over Bush on matters concerning Iraq by a margin of 58 to 32. Ms Smith’s 62% number comes from negative polling numbers, Bush disapproval numbers from the same source were 70%.

Qu’ul cuda praedex nihil!

I have a poll that says 95% of what keefer and kahn says is utter BS.

Source: My own intuition

kblack,

The thing is, if there was a geuine surge, as it were, of demand on the part of the public for an immediate or quick withdrawal, then President Bush wouldn't be able to sustain his position, and Nancy wouldn't have had to lard up the surrender bill with pork in order to get to 218 votes.

The poll results are interesting, and they are useful to know in that they give lie to any conception that the polls you prefer are gospel...but the more important polls are the polls we don't see. Those polls are done by the parties and are comprehensive and let them know what people are really thinking...no overweighting, no leading questions, no push polling. Those sorts of polls aren't released because that would be tipping one's hand. And those polls simply must be indicating that a surrender in Iraq doesn't command majority support.

The thing about poll numbers, kblack77, is that they do not always determine what is best or right. And, the mob doesn't always rule. If the majority of those polled stated that murder was OK with them, does that make it right?

To pull out from Iraq now would be disasterous in so many ways. Whether you agree with the Iraq war or not, we are there. We need to get out, yes, but not through Congressional mandates. By completing the job. By finishing what we started. By doing the right thing.

"Only 24% of Americans approve of the way GWB is handling Iraq"

The single most meaningless poll number produced. The other 76% don't even know who the VP is, let alone where Iraq is on the globe.

Of those surveyed that is!!

if nothing else your responses are quite entertaining...

Basically they amount to a position of

(1) polls don't matter - when they reflect badly on your position

(2) look everybody - look at all these numbers that support my position (Princella's post and numerous posts from Mark in the past)

(3) the "real polls" that matter are the ones that they aren't taking or aren't reporting on for some reason..

So to summarize - the position is to only look at facts that are favorable to you, ignore those that aren't, and then flip-flop on if we should even listen to the polls depending if it supports your current position or not.. Do I have that about right?

Look - in the end I think it is hard to deny that things are not going well for the Bush administration and how people view them. And I guess Navydad's position is the American public is too stupid or ignorant to matter? Why is it irrelevant that only slightly over 1/4 of the population approve of Bush and his policies on Iraq? I guess its just another inconvenient fact that you have to ignore..

Of course if you ask questions that are so abstract that they are meaningless you get meaningless answers. Like - do you support or oppose victory? Not surprisingly people chose victory - but what does this actually mean. Almost nothing unless it is in regard to a specific policy or set of policies and actions. When you ask those questions the answer is very clear. They do not support the surge, they do not support Bush's policies, they favor time tables for withdrawal..

So lets stop having the argument about what the American public prefers - that is already answered. Now if you have the courage of your convictions - you can say - fine I don't care about that and I think its still the wrong decision. That is a respectable - though ultimately incorrect - position to take. To keep claiming that there is some huge support for this president or his Iraq policies is just laughable

There was no mandate in 11/06 to pull out of Iraq. Iraq may have been on the minds but it was not on the ballot. The shift that happened has always happened. Except for Clinton who the American people immediately saw as an idiot and decided to pull his Authority from him.

The democrats are fraudulently using the shift as a mandate to pull out of Iraq.

why are we citing polling data from february and march?

Considering that the current plan from congress doesn't call for an immediate withdrawal and certainly not a complete withdrawal (which that question might imply to people) I don't get much insight from the question's replies.
On the other hand, I'll be interested to see what the responses are like when people realize the "surge" was just a ruse for an escalation.

"Do you support the president's plan to escalate the number of troops in Iraq?"

In a recent poll, 100% of democratic congressmen and 100% of democratic senators feel that would not be relected if they actually vote to end the war.

hmm - perhaps that tells you something about how Americans feel about the war Liberal nightmare???

Eric, I'm not touching THAT poll.

I think it interesting that at least some of the numbers you have cherry picked date back to last February. Why not just go with the most current ones ?

Considering that the current plan from congress doesn't call for an immediate withdrawal and certainly not a complete withdrawal (which that question might imply to people) I don't get much insight from the question's replies.

Yes that is quite strange, considering the war is lost (hat tip, Reid). You would think the dems would be demanding a full withdrawal to start ASAP; why keep troops engaged in a war already lost? Curiouser and curiouser.

Well, at least if the withdrawal IS initiated, we will still be keeping troops in Iraq to attack terrorist groups. Because right now our troops are used to..uh..theyre..uh..attacking..terrorist groups..ummm..

-scratches head-

I think the only views worth considering are military leaders & Iraqis. I listened to the US Ambassador from Iraq on CSPAN last week or so -- and he was able to candidly speak about what support is needed. Too bad the national news doesn't give him any time. When asked about dividing the country in 3 -- he said they would consider that as soon as the US decided to separate Catholics in one state & Protestants in another. He also mentioned that many Iraq citizens marry across religous lines (like the US) and wanted to know how they should separate their bedrooms. He made a great case for who we were fighting (terrorists) and who we were not. I think if voters heard him & the Generals on the ground their polls would be different. I certainly don't think Americans view Nancy or Harry as military experts -- but it would be nice if the Republican politicans held their own & would offer a counter point of view.

What I find interesting in 2008 election is the denial we even have an enemy. That half of thise campaigning do not even think we are at war.

Today Hillary Clinton said this:

"Somebody said to me that he wished we could just rewind the 21st century and just eliminate the Bush-Cheney administration, with all their mistakes and misjudgments," she said to cheers. "People are ready for leaders who understand it is our votes who put them in power, our tax dollars that pay the bills."

Is she referring to someone that would have done nothing about 911 and that socialism should be a way of life?

Welcome to the troll patrol, keefer.

Welcome to the "cheap fiddle" patrol, once again, CO. You have been punk'd, yet again...

On the other hand, I'll be interested to see what the responses are like when people realize the "surge" was just a ruse for an escalation.

What sort of stupid nonsense is this, carsick? Your idol, Ted Kennedrunk, and his butt-buddies in the Senate, were calling it an escalation from the get-go. Everything's a ruse to you assholes; it's getting rather old. Your BDS is blinding you, you stupid dumbass.

I have a poll that says 95% of what keefer and kahn says is utter BS.

I have a poll that says that 100% of the time, Eric wears his sister's underwear.

Source: His sister told me...

LOL keefer. I needed that. Just had to deal with a rant from a fellow student about how Bush's tax cut only helped the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Sound familiar? I almost asked her what her troll name was.

Posted by: LDH at April 28, 2007 10:34 PM

Good post, LDH.

:)
"I almost asked her what her troll name was." by: kjstrouble

Bwahaha!

The point is people that polls are useless. The only poll worth a damn is an election. The government should not lead by polls becuase that is not leadership. You can get a poll to say whatever the hell you want.

I think its hilarious that liberals scream about poll numbers when they are in their favor, but immediatly suspect polls that dont follow the KOS talking points.

Get a grip libs, you want to destroy our country and we are not going to let you.

And yet, despite these numbers, most americans (59%) support the proposal bringing the troops home in 08 that is now headed to the prez.

ThELefTYFoOL

despite all the polls...no matter which way they swing
we currently aren't doing a very good job in iraq
in terms of lives, finance, winning the hearts and minds or iraqis, etc.
bottom line....the majority of americans aren't happy with the progress
it's hard to argue with that perception even though you will

Polls definitely show what message made it through the noise but definitely don't tell you how to lead. I think the Rep leadership needs to recognize that the message is getting blurred by the noise and it's time to kick it up a notch. They have plenty of opportunities provided to them lately -- they just need to seize them. My 'favorite' poll lately was the approval rating I read for Nancy Pelosi on the front page of her hometown newspaper. I was in San Fran on business 2 weeks ago and read that her approval rating was 42%. I'm not sure she should be talking about the President's standing when her own voters have trouble with her but that doesn't get national coverage on CNN unfortunately.