Walter Reed is messed up. Nothing to argue about.

As I have said before the "war on terror" is complete and total fraud.

Wars are waged against groups, states or political/military entities.

Terror is a tactic that people use for whatever purpose they wish to advance or employ out of totally irrational motives.

Timothy Mcveigh used terror, as do Al Qeada.Making war on a tactic is futile. You assess who is using terror and through various means minimize its effect or prosecute those who employ terror.

Bush is using this "war" to curtail civil rights and advance his political power.

Wade

Sorry Matt,
If Walter Reed is messed up it's not a Democratic or Republican problem, it's an American problem. If you support the troops, then you want them to have the best care.

I think you're all right, it is an American problem, but it's also clear that Democrats are politicizing this issue, and that sickens me. This problem goes further back than George W. Bush, and I for one am tired of Democrats acting as if this is a new problem caused by Bush.

I don't care who caused the problem. I want to see it fixed. If we truly support the troops then we need to make sure they get the best care.

No - its not Republican or Democrat. Just a messed up situation. One thing I don't understand; the place is messed up and scheduled for closure. So, why is Washington, DC representative Elenor Holmes Norton arguing that it should be left open? Now, not to single out a Democrat because both sides do this. But could our Congress actually concern themselves with the good of our Nation and the fate of our brave young men and women instead of ALWAYS arguing for the local jobs???

Matt,
I agree that the Democrats are politicizing this issue. Part of the reason is because the right wing is ignoring it, in hopes it will go away. I have no doubt that Clinton bears some respnsibility for this, but so does Bush as he has had 6 years to fix it. At least Gates has held some people responsible.

This is the kind of health care we can all look forward to if Shrillary becomes President. Government run health care is a disaster.

"We're from the government and we're here to help."

How about vouchers for private health care? Privatize veterans' health care and things will get much better.

Bob,
What I understand part of the problem is because the services have been privatized.
In a letter from the committee to Weightman, the members said the Garibaldi memo “describes how the Army’s decision to privatize support services at Walter Reed Army Medical Center was causing an exodus of ‘highly skilled and experienced personnel.’ ... According to multiple sources, the decision to privatize support services at Walter Reed led to a precipitous drop in support personnel at Walter Reed.”

The committee’s letter also noted that Walter Reed awarded a five-year, $120 million contract to IAP Worldwide Services, which is run by Al Neffgen, a former senior Halliburton official.

The committee also noted that more than 300 federal employees providing facilities management services at Walter Reed dropped to fewer than 60 by Feb. 3, the day before IAP took over facilities management. IAP replaced the remaining 60 employees with 50 private workers.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/03/tnsharvey070302/

Casper - I don't think it was that the privatization started it. It has just been getting old. When the B.R.A.C. named it for closure, military people started asking for transfers like crazy. Forgive them if they wanted some stability in their lives – they wanted to go to duty stations where they could stay put for a while. This should not have been allowed to happen. But it was allowed, and they started bringing in contractors.

BUT – the two big problems there are the facilities and the crazy bureaucracy the wounded have to put up with. These are Army problems. The problem is NOT with the medical care. Since it is now reported that there were numerous complaints about both of the problem areas – then clearly the Chain of Command failed these men and women.

This is not the first time that the military medical system has failed our soldiers. It failed to support them with the Agent Orange poisoning, it failed them after exposing them to Atomic tests, and it completely denied that PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) even existed. These failures have nothing to do with the party in power and have happened over time with either party in power.

Sergeants complained to lieutenants who complained to captains until it went up to the generals(s) in charge. They did nothing and they should not have only been removed – they should lose a star. You are supposed to retire at the last rank HONORABLY served. These men did NOT serve honorably.

The way this is being politicised is nauseating...especially coming from leftwingers who for the past 5 years have shown they don't care at all about the troops.

At any rate, it is a problem, it has been identified and it is being fixed. This, though, is the sort of thing which is going to happen when you have a large, bureaucratic organization...this is socialised medicine. When I was in, I broke my collar bone and had to wait three days or so for a proper brace...they tried; the Docs were good, the corpsmen were good - heck, they even got the chief bo'sun to try and rig up a brace for me using a safety harness...but, somewhere along the line someone neglected to order collar bone braces...no one's fault, just happened.

You lefties just go about your business - I'm not buying these crocadile tears.

Murtha keeps aaying that no one talks to the Pentagon folks more than him. No one talks to the kids coming back, the injured and the dead, more than him. Or so he has said. I think a very good question is... if he was keeping his ear so close to the tracks, how is it he didn't catch wind of what was happening at WR? And apparently it's not just WR either. It's endemic to a goodly portion of the whole system.

Obviously Murtha can't be accused of being responsible for the problem. He's not. But given his comments in the past, I am definitely curious how he explains the fact that he didn't catch wind of it. Someone needs to ask him that question.

Ricorun,

Extraordinarily good point...in fact, doesn't anyone know how this story originally came out? Was it an inspector general report? Or did the MSM unearth it? Or was it a Congressional committee? If it was the military which discovered the problem, then things are working precisely as they are supposed to work, given that we're all imperfect and no human activity will be without error.

To Fix it you have to first identify the problem

Hmmm...

On Feb. 17, 2005, Lt. Gen. Franklin Hagenbeck, former deputy chief of staff for personnel, told the House Committee on Government Reform that the Army did not have nearly the resources it had during the Vietnam War. He said the Army processed 15,000 cases in 2004 with three physical evaluation board systems and a total of 70 employees.

“The last time we had that many cases was in 1972, when [we] processed 19,000 cases,” he said. “At that time, there were six [physical evaluation boards] across five states and the District with a total of 260 employees.”

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/02/tnsmedboards070217/

Complaints against the VA Medical system are as old as the system itself. So far, I have no complaints against them, I've been treated very well. Others, visiting the same facility I do complain endlessly.

As I understand it, the main problem at WR is one building that should be taken care of. I even heard of a group of families that are outraged at the removal of General Weightman, who has been command of the facility only since August.

What apparently is missed in the left's feigned outrage, yet again, is an article in the March 2007 edition of Readers Digest showing some awesome medical breakthroughs for our troops, and others, from Walter Reed, along with pictures showing state of the art surroundings.

In articles addressing this many Veterans have said they have been complaining about care at facilities across the nation, to their congresscritters, for over 2 decades. Surely these same congresscritters could have done something besides turn their back and wait to make it a political issue appearing like Republicans ruined the system, to grab even more power in D.C.

Two things stick out loud and clear with this.

1. What you are eharing is an insight of what awaits as we demand more and more socialized medicine. Some will be pleased and many unhappy. If the Democrats get their way and push their socialized medicine off on us, the complaints will disappear and be ignored.

2. It is very obvious that were in the midst of a coup d'état from the Democrat party where they hope to have total socialist control over the country.

Just another example of government health care. Libs are naturally outraged, since there is a Republican in the White House. If a lib (God forbid) was in the White House, we would instead be pummelled with excuse after excuse and "logical reason" after "logical reason", until the situation was forgotten.

And to think, the outraged libs, in government and here on this blog, want more of this government health care for all.

IF WR did not have the necessary resources since Vietnam and IF the libs care so much for them men and women in the armed services, why did the previous administration gut the military?

Hmmmmmmm..........

"This, though, is the sort of thing which is going to happen when you have a large, bureaucratic organization"

Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but all of you who have railed against "socialist" medicine have completely missed the point. Reiterating Casper's point that everyone apparently ignored, Walter Reed's operation and maintenance were PRIVATIZED to a company called IAP Worldwide Services. This occurred despite the military's own conclusion that the federal government could do a better job handling the hospital than IAP.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/03/waxman_to_force.html

Gar Wood

Mark,
The story was originally broken by the Washington Post.

Gar wood - the health care has been fine. It was the paperwork and the buildings. Wounded soldiers were made to cross a delapidated campus not friendly to handicapped to muster each morning. They wee almost treated as shirkers instead of heroes. Jeeezzz - Mr. Johnson doesn't make you do that - but Major Johnson does. It was not the contractors.

There are a bunch of ignorant posts here. Has anyone besides me even been to Walter Reed?

This can not be an issue for the left that will work - because the vast majority of you are so ignorant of how these things run. Not an insult - just a fact. With so few of you serving, how would you know anything? A point I've made before, I believe.

I am not buying the comedy team Limbaugh and Hannity comedy that the private sector can always do things better. In this situation I want military people taking care of our military wounded. Dick Chaney and his Halliburton subsidiary IAP worldwide can go suck taxpayers’ dollars somewhere else.

Its about time those who post here realize we made a promise to our troops to support them in battle and when they come home. Republicans will have join with Democrats to face the fact some of the troops will require government support for the rest of their lives.

If Murtha and the rest of the pols have made numerous visits to WR, then why didn't they pull the poverty alarm years ago when they went on their simpathy parades....eh?

Sounds to me like the pols turned a blind eye but if the wounded knew it, why not the pols?

Kahn,

"Gar wood - the health care has been fine. It was the paperwork and the buildings."

I agree...But IAP's handling of the "operation" and "maintenance" of Walter Reed (according to the above ABC article) seems to reflect that the company was responsible for the paperwork and the buildings. Another article claims that IAP was in charge of the "management" of the hospital, which also indicates that they were in fact responsible for the endless bureaucracy there.
http://newstandardnews.net/content/ion/index.cfm/bulletin/6473

Again, I'm not certain to what exact degree IAP played a role in all of this, but to blame the situation on socialized medicine is misstating and simplifying the problem.

Gar Wood

we fought against the USSR to defeat socialism. Capitalism is the best system, and we should accept it, warts and all. If vets receive substandard care, that's unfortunate, but they can get a job to receive better care, or their family can pay for better care. Vets receiving substandard care is less of aproblem than liberals whining about it.

I'm not buying these crocadile tears.

Or a dictionary, apparently.

You are aware that a good part of the problems at Walter Reed are due to privatization, yes? Google IAP Worldwide Services and report back with your findings. Unless, that is, you'd rather keep ducking the issue. Way to support those troops, Noonan!

It wasn't the contractors that made wounded people report for muster every morning.

Again - liberals - forget the Haliburton crap as it is a distraction at best. Both sides want this fixed and yopu just look ignorant and, well opportunistic with this line.

Posted by: someguy at March 6, 2007 10:57 AM

If vets receive substandard care, that's unfortunate, but they can get a job to receive better care, or their family can pay for better care. Vets receiving substandard care is less of aproblem than liberals whining about it.

As a Vietnam Vet and a liberal I sincere hope Someguy is not truely one of your supporters.. where are you NavyDAD... do you really believe such a position should exist within your conservative ranks!!!!!!

Ohio - yah, thats crap. Never saw (or at least noticed) the poster before. One thing though and I see this mistake being made all the time... Walter Reed is NOT an VA hospital and the men and women there are not veterans. It is an Army hospital and it houses soldiers, Marines, airmen and even sailors. Serving military.

Bethesda Naval Hospital is a dozen or so miles west along the beltway. It is also actually multi-service and the two hospitals divvy up patients based on specific illnesses and injuries. The BRAC recommended that Walter Reed be closed and Bethesda expanded to form one huge and newer hospital complex.

the statement that democrats or republicans (or anyone) doesn't care about the troops is ridiculous -- everyone cares about the troops.

Just because democrats want to discuss the policy (as is supposed to happen in a democracy), certainly doesn't mean the troops aren't supported. this has always been a silly statement...