I don't know how I feel about spanking children.

I'm sure there are abusive parents out there and law enforcement should have tools to protect children.

But where, where will there be a line drawn and say this is as far as we'll intrude into your homes. When will we as a society tell government that that's enough. You pick our pockets, but it's time that you let us decide how to raise our kids.

I'm only 25 so I don't have kids, but how is the government going to enforce this... put cameras in our homes...?

wawilliyo: "I'm only 25 so I don't have kids..."

25? Jeepers, get with the program dude.

Be that as it may, I assume that Sally Lieber is more than three. And I know for sure that the Sacramento area is blessed with an abundance of willow swithes. Someone ought to git 'er done.

Rico:
You'll probably agree with this statement... but joviality only goes so far bud!

I am WAY too immature to have a kid... plus I'm too involved with my own life to get married and have a kid... even though I will love having a few when the time is right.

And I probably won't spank them... but then again, I don't want to end up in jail if I'm at the mall and they are distracted by something and I swat their butt to get their attention and the clerk at Macy's feels the need to call the cops.

Anyways, I didn't read the full story, but what I do know is that Ms. Lieber needs to turn around and walk about 50 yards to see the line she's crossed.

I grew up in a very strict religious home. My father was a pastor. I was spanked. And honestly, at times, it went too far.

I also believed spanking was A.OK, because that is how I was raised.

I am now a mother of a 3yr old. There is no way on earth I would ever, ever, spank her. No way! I have found many other affective ways of discipline.

I just could never inflict physical pain, as punishment on my daughter. Id rather cut my own arm off.

JMO

Mark: "Childless, she doesn't know all the ins and outs of child rearing but she is convinced of the justice of her cause because her veterinarian advised her against spanking her cat..."

I am just a poor boy, though my story's seldom told. I have squandered my resistance for a pocket-full of mumbles such are promises.

Spanking is not a cure all for disciplining children. However, if used properly, never out of anger or when angry or upset, it can be a tool to help straighten out some unreasonable children.

As an adult who survived child abuse in the 1950s and 1960s, and one who raised two daughters who don't even remember a spanking, there is a definite difference between disciplinary spanking and abuse.

Each child is different and as always, blanket remedies, for or against, can't cover all. But, just the idea of the state stepping in and telling parents how they can raise their children is just too far.

I have also had to deal with our CPS (step-children) and discussing them with a local deputy, I was informed they often make up their own rules and many cases get thrown out of court. That doesn't stop the nanny stater do gooders who think they are better than the rest from imposing their will and desires on the rest. And, that's all this is, elitist forcing their ways on the rest.

If they succeed this time, where will they stop? Will time outs and corners be banned because the child "doesn't like it?"

Back to the step kids for a second. Dealing with an 'elder' from their church, I was informed by this 'elder' that he was 'disciplined' as a child and "didn't like it." I reminded him that the Bible basically says you aren't supposed to like discipline, but that it is necessary at times and that he seems to have grown up and be okay, so it must have worked. He had no answer.

Spanking should not be the first choice of discipline, but a parent should be free to choose it when needed and if needed, without hinderance from nanny staters. We already have too many undisciplined young people in the world, we don't need more.

Liberals have a problem with spanking kids but not sucking their brains out as spanking is cruel

go figure

AFWife,

I'm no expert, but when I was spanked at 4 years old for setting the couch on fire, I never set it on fire again...

At any event, I do think that some mild spanking can prove useful as a corrective in children about 2 to 5 years old. Before that, they wouldn't know why you did it, after that you should have established your authority as parent to the point where they wouldn't challenge you far enough to need a spanking.

Be that as it may, it is the height of absurdity to make a law about it - it is already against the law to abuse a child, and that should be good enough - though, if a need is really felt, we can define abuse more carefully. I'd say that as long as blood isn't drawn or bones broken, it isn't abusive (as long as it is understood that a bruise is drawn blood).

All kidding aside, I agree with Mark in that there's a world of difference betweeen applying a swat on the behind to get their attention and a beating just to make them hurt. Fortunately, I've never had kids that I felt the need to resort to corporal punishment, but my parents did (hehe). And theirs worked out pretty well. Mine (and those of my siblings) could, in combination, be best described as works in progress.

A spankin' never hurt anyone. A beatin', on the other hand, should never be administered, unless the recipient is an adult male kook liberal.

No spankings for children three and under, unless they set fire to something...

I was spanked as a kid... well, until it stopped hurting... but a parent giving an instructional smack on the rear can be quite a motivational tool. That being said, child-abuse laws can be a bit hazy at times. Personally, I think it should be limited to open hands and not on the face, but that may just be me... however, whether we need a law in order to define "Spanking" is a different thing all together...

I was spanked as a child, and I turned out OK. My younger brother wasn't and he didn't.

But spanking didn't work with my two daughters who are almost 4 years apart, so my wife and took a parenting class offered by our church when our daughters were around 3 and 7. We used a book called, IRRC, "Parent Effectiveness Training". As a side note, I always get a chuckle out of people who have trouble disciplining their children. One of the most common comments I hear is, "well, it's not like they came with an owner's manual". No, there are only a few thousand "owner's manuals" in print, including the one my wife and I used. It dealt with logical consequences of one's actions. I have no idea if the book is still in print, but it certainly helped us raise two kids without striking them.

AFWIFE will probably get a chuckle out of my oldest daughter's discipline problems with the youngest of her two sons. He was born with defective kidneys and received a transplant (one of his dad's) when he was 20 months old. As a result, he got considerably more attention as a toddler than his older brother, but as he got older, (he's now almost 6) and his health improved, he got less and less attention. He rebelled. Didn't burn up any sofas, but a lot of acting out, talking back, etc. Standing in a corner for a few minutes seemed to work, except, before long virtually every corner of their house had two dark cheek smudges about three feet off the floor, smudges that didn't clear off easily. One day my daughter called me and asked me if I had ever heard of "Mr. Clean Magic Erasers". I hadn't. They work great for cleaning "cheek smudges" off flat wall paint.

"unless the recipient is an adult male kook liberal"

In which they all should be beat!!

Can anyone here remember the actual pain from a spanking? I can't, but I certainly remember the act. As I grew older and my Mom, not my dad, grew weaker and I grew stronger, the spanks/whips..yes whips, hurt much less (I think) and although the act was painful, the physical aspect was not (I think).

Now, we all know that this won't become law, but if left to the kooks, like the 9th Dicstrict Court in Cal. it will be drug through the system and funded by you and I until every kook on the planet comes outa the woodwork in defense of it.

But what is "it"? Will "it" mean just a few whacks at the lower scale of E=mv2, or at the higher end of the scale? Hmmm...hey Keefer, I like the higher end for the Kooks!

Like the Atheist that tried to have "Under God" removed from the POA, it'll be drug out until this kook feels she got here fifteen minutes of fame and I can tell you this; there is no way, anyone is dumb enough to think that this can be policed.

My sibs and I endured spankings, the belt, the yardstick (one of which my grandma kept handy in her house for my mom to use) and the dreaded wooden spoon (a tradition handed down from my dad's parents), and we all survived. What do my sibs do with their kids? The offender gets to sit in "time out".

I have no kids myself. Please don't tell Senator Boxer.

Just like diplomacy works best when backed up by strength and the possibility of military action, words and verbal discipline work best when backed up by the knowledge that stronger measures will surely follow if those words are ignored.

Note the typical propaganda trick of changing a SPANKING into a BEATING. Note how Liberals (A.K.A. Democrats) want the reader to imagine a little three year bleeding and beaten to within an inch of their lives by their parents -- perhaps by a bull whip or board. Note how Liberals (A.K.A. Democrats) want people to believe that spankings are a real problem that's out of control. Don't we already have laws that cover severely beating children -- or adults for that matter? Unfortunately, the average and typical American these days easily falls for this type of Democrat indoctrination and brainwashing. Even worse... we let them get away with pushing their lies and agenda until they finally succeed. We wake up one day and wonder what happened to America because we failed to fight the Democrats and their liberal agenda each and every time they try shoving it down the throats of Americans!

Liberals... Get a grip on reality! A light spanking is not the same as a brutal beating. Kids get hurt in their play every day and oftentimes much more seriously and painfully that a spanking. A slap on the wrist or a couple of light swats on their rear is really quite beneficial and, used sparingly and rationally, works quite well to reduce the more serious behavioral problems we see rampant in America's [Liberal raised] children today. Too bad liberals don't learn how to effectively use a little spanking and more discipline when raising their own children. Perhaps we wouldn't have so many disrespectful kids and those already in or headed for jail -- or worse! Instead of outlawing spankings, the laws should restore it to the schools!

Wake up America. Weak minded bleeding heart liberals and liberalism are destroying America. It's time rational Americans with a little common sense unite and put a stop to their idiotic ideas and laws!

AAR

AFWIFE,

I have seen a few, very few (I can count them on the fingers of one hand) parents who can and did raise their children without, or with almost no spankings. It can be done, but it requires more parenting skills, knowledge, understanding of psychology and child behavior, and dedication than most people do not have. It requires paying close observation and attention to the children and stopping or correcting any bad behavior before it becomes established and leads to even worse behavior. In the cases I have seen, it works best when there's only one child or two at most. It also depends on the individual child and his or her personality, intelligence, and other factors -- some of which are beyond a parent's control.

On the other hand, I have seen a multitude of people who raised their kids Liberal way, with little or no discipline or responsibility and the children basically running the show and being given whatever they want. I have seen many, many kids raised the "Dr. Spock" way. Their parents are paying for it. We all are paying for it and living with the results of that type of child rearing in America today. Americans are all too good at producing children, but unfortunately, few are parents.

I was raised by rather strict parents, and I got some memorable paddlings and most were deserved. If my parents told us to do something or not to do something, we knew they meant it. Maybe (usually) we would be given a second warning, but that wasn't a guarantee. There wasn't any counting to 3 or 10 while we continued with the behavior. There wasn't any sitting or standing in the corner. Those paddlings were VERY effective in modifying our behavior and making us think twice before we did it again. Yes, a few times they left some red marks for a day or two, but nothing nearly as serious and painful as the broken bones, cuts, bruises, sprains, and injuries I got playing and having fun. No, I didn't like those paddlings... that's why they worked so well! Looking back, I think my parents were among the best I've seen and I've told them so.

There wasn't any objections to discipline -- including paddlings -- in school either. On the contrary, my parents made it very clear that if we got a paddling in school, we could count on another one when we got home -- period! We didn't have the disrespect in our schools then and our teachers didn't take any flak from the students we see today. If a student seriously misbehaved, they were sent to the principal's office and if a good talk didn't fix the problem, a good paddling would. The women teachers didn't take any flak and didn't feel threatened either. If some "tough guy" teenager gave them a problem, one of our well built and very capable coaches applied the paddle -- memorably!

Another thing, I would not send the disrespectful thugs (students) home who misbehave nor would they be suspended. Instead, they would remain at school (or detention) even longer, work even harder, and do even more homework... backed up by some of those coaches with good strong paddles!!!

AAR

I heard that certain crowds in San Fancisco were in a panic when they heard that spanking was going to outlawed. But then they heard it would only apply to small children and they were happy again.

Good one, Kahn!

I knew as soon as Lieber started freely substituting words like "beat" and "whip" for "spank" that she had no argument at all.

I am so tired of the Dem Dictionary, that magical book where any word can mean whatever they want it to mean. There is a definition for spanking. There is a definition for beating, and there is a definition for whipping. They are not the same. The intellectual dishonesty of trying to slip in one meaning for another is proof of the dishonesty of the entire effort.

BTW, I once had an employee who grew up in South Africa, where they had caning in school, and he said it was the best discipline he could imagine. Yes, it hurt. Yes, it was humiliating. But he said it taught him personal responsibility and about consequences for bad decisions, and he never regretted it. And he will have his children educated in the same system.

He was, by the way, the most efficient, talented, cheerful, hard-working, employee I have ever had---worth a dozen or more of the lazy spoiled whiny American lads I've hired and fired over the years.