Princella... Well written summary indeed. I, too, thought President Bush's speech was "right on target". Now we need to commit ourselves to prayer for him as well as those who would seek to oppose him in Congress.

This is all nothing but blowing smoke. If there was a surge of 200,000+ troops coming into Iraq, that's one thing. Reshuffling existing numbers of troops is not a "surge". This has been done before, it didn't work then and it won't work now. At BEST, Muqtada Al Sadr's Al Mehdi Army and whoever the hell is leading the Sunni insurgency (we STILL don't know) will go underground for a while and then reemerge.

You three years ago on the old Mattmargolis.com blog I stated Muqtdada Al Sadr was a threat. I was ridiculed and told that everything was peachy keen in Iraq. Now he pretty much runs Iraq if anyone does.

I can't wait until the day when this PLAN WILL SUCCEED and all those idiots, and there are SO MANY, have egg on their face. If this succeeds that will be Bush's BIG MOMENT!

Hey fellas- McCain himself said 20K is NOT enough. if you are going to do it do it right. ..."other wise don't do it at all..."

This token 20k kids is going to be a disater on TOP of a mess.

here see for yourself: http://mediamatters.org/items/200701080008

Princella,
Looks like Bush isn't the only one standing firm on the escalation, oops, I mean "surge."
"WASHINGTON - Americans overwhelmingly oppose sending more U.S. forces to Iraq, according to a new AP-Ipsos poll that serves as a strong repudiation of
President Bush's plan to send another 21,500 troops."
The American people are out in front of Congress on this (and light years ahead of Bush and company).
It would appear that even after four years of relentless spin, the homefront has figured out that the inperialist interests of the neocons and U.S. corporations are far removed from our national interest.
Lol

Great link, Bill. Your reading comprehension is on a par with your writing ability.

Likely 2008 presidential candidate Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) has offered several widely varying and often vague estimates of how many additional troops are needed in Iraq, ranging from four to 10 brigades, and from fewer than 21,000 troops up to 35,000. The media, however, have failed to point out these discrepancies while distinguishing McCain's Iraq proposals from President Bush's reported intention of sending 20,000 additional troops to the region, and reporting that McCain views Bush's reported proposal as insufficient.

Many media figures and outlets have simply ignored McCain's shift in numbers without questioning why he has changed his estimates, or even recognizing that McCain's suggested number has shifted repeatedly.

Let's get real, 21,500 extra troops won't be enough. Practically every thing Bush and his blockheaded minions did in Iraq, failed.

This half assed move will fail as well, bet my boots on it. This will happen in spite of the fact that the general in charge of it( known as King David by his enemies and admirers), is probably the most competent general to handle this sort of action. I am rooting for him, however.

The Bush administration will go down as the most worse, most ineffective, lousy American government of the past 100 years.

Princella:

If this plan fails, which I hope it does not as much as I am against it, what will you say?

So far everything in Iraq has been a failure and everything the anti-war left has predicted has largely come to pass.

You are following a bunker president further into the land of delusion.

Wade

Great post Princella:

I can't agree more! This war has done wonders for me, economically. It got Bush reelected, and as a result kept my taxes way down. I don't know any of the kids who were killed or maimed over there, so their loss isn't really that concrete with me, and certainly the sacrifice is worth it if enough people like me benefit financially. And, as I've mentioned before, there's no draft, and so my two cute-as-button-like-the-Bush-girls daughters won't be going over there. I agree that the people who oppose the war - - in other words, the traitors - - have no regard for the people over there who, as you say, persist in thinking we should stay there. Funny, but I thought some of them were complaining about having to do a third or fourth tour of duty, and not being able to come home. I must have been mistaken. Well, in sum, better them than me, right?

Canuck:
Most worse? Is that how Canada's educational system works? Apparently they are too busy teaching you French to teach you proper English.

And clearly, as you're no student of english, you're no student of history either.

The only thing you are rooting for is the defeat of American soldiers in Iraq. Look at Aarontime, he gloated with glee when the total number of dead soldiers went up by two a couple weeks back.

That is indeed what you cheer. And of course we'll hear crickets if and/or when we succeed in Iraq from all of you, except to take credit that your "pressure" on Bush was what made the difference.

Just admit it: IF BUSH IS BEHIND IT, YOU'LL BE IN LINE AGAINST IT.

Canuck: "The Bush administration will go down as the most worse, most ineffective, lousy American government of the past 100 years."

if you ARE going to interject in OUR politics- please get it correct:

100 years? try HISTORICALLY! ;-)

Man i wish i could live two more lives and see the history books my great, great grand children wil read on Bush. Aside from the 1 page of tribute's to his personal financial gains, the rest will be volumes upon volumes of utter embarrassment for our nation.

That is of course if he doesn't weaken us so much that we completly get removed from the planet while we are tied up in some debacle in Iraq.

Hey guys- is there any way we can make some bets here on line?

I really want to see what you guys say in 6 moths- 1 year even.

Riddle me this batman- what WILL you say when the troops are coming home and we have lost an additional 3000 lives? And spent another $200B

What wil you say then Navy, Spook? Wally, Any one?

Seriously- what suggestion then- blame Clinton? Or did the congress screw up in 1 year what great acheivemnets the congress did the pervious 6 years?

You see Americans are not as think i am you are dumb. 6 years of Busha dn his congress- and 4 years of a war that has continued to fail- all the while you BELIEVED Bush and the great "Mission Accompished" stuff. oh

yeah- rememeber that- for 4 years????

Any way- what will you guys claim next year? Will you cry wolf again- you know 9-11 we need to go into Venezuela?

In 1 year what will you really say? Will Bush have a NEW plan? i bet he will. yeah- i bet i know the title already: "a NEW, NEW NEW, no really a NEW Way Forward in Iraq"

Do you guys ever tire of hearing Bush play that record?

c'mon fellas- what wil you say in 1 year?

I hate to say i told you so and won't. But boy- won't you feel like pulling your foot out of your- (clearing throat) mouth ?

Are you going to see in 1 year that nothing has changed that IN FACT things are worse than they are today?

What wil be your thoughts in 1 year? will the faithfull still flock to the feed bin?

Mark? Wally? Navy? Spook (all my other favorites) ?

President Bush was fantastic in his speech last night. I love it everytime he flips the bird at the terrorist supporting libs.

More troops, change the ROE, and pin down Iran and Syria...get r' done Mr President.

It would appear that even after four years of relentless spin, the homefront has figured out that the inperialist interests of the neocons and U.S. corporations are far removed from our national interest.

All this stuff about "neocons" and "imperialists" is itself spin. We all have every right to criticize Bush's tactics and polices, but not to mischaracterize them. This war followed 12 years, under three presidents, of U.N. sanctions and no-fly zones (and I might add, the "Desert Fox" bombing campaign by the only one of those three not named "Bush") to get Saddam's government to cooperate and fulfill the cease-fire conditions they agreed to in 1991, and resulted from the failure of those efforts.

Practically every thing Bush and his blockheaded minions did in Iraq, failed.

For the successes you might not have heard about, cut and paste:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTQwM2ExODNhMjRmMTczODM1OTc0MmVmNDRiNTM5MzE=

"For the safety of our people, America must succeed in Iraq."

This is similar to what I've already said. A pullout, which some on the left have demanded, would itself be a failure, greatly encourage terrorism, and may well cause Americans to die right here in America. If anyone thinks that we could have prevented that possibility by not invading Iraq in the first place, I would remind them that we had not yet begun our invasion of Iraq when 9/11 occurred and Americans already died right here.

The Bush administration will go down as the most worse, most ineffective, lousy American government of the past 100 years.

Only if you ignore the double-digit inflation, the 20% home mortgage interest rates, the rising unemployment, the Iranian hostage crisis, the gas shortages, etc., of the Carter years.

I can't wait until the day when this PLAN WILL SUCCEED and all those idiots, and there are SO MANY, have egg on their face.

Personally, while I don't know if the surge will succeed, I think that many Dems oppose it because they fear that it COULD succeed, and bring credit to Bush. Interesting how the same side that has faulted him for "staying the course" now faults him for proposing a different course of action. The critics' alternatives seem to consist of either "pull out" or "engage the enemy with diplomacy", both of which have failed when tried against muslim enemies.

Are you going to see in 1 year that nothing has changed that IN FACT things are worse than they are today?

I can't speak for your other favorites, B.S., but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I don't have your confidence when it comes to predicting the future.

Bigfoot- 20K is not a change of course. YOu know it, I know it, we all know it.

Try something meaningful rather than some token attempt to appease critics. Becuae you know 20k isn;t going to do diddly doo doo. So we either wil be the same or worse off in 1 year. What will you guys say then. Tell us.

You know- the more i see Bush in action the more i see the despair of this country. How sad for us to sit here and watch America get screwed right in front of our eyes.

shameful

--

BTW any one notice some white powder just found in Florida I think (missed where they said).

Oh god- Ralley the troops again- Bush just dialed 9-11

"it's the same ol' same ol' song and dance"- Aerosmith

Big,
You guys really don't get it, do you?
Oposition to this "surge" nonsense is based on a number of factors:
1. It will result in more American and Iraqi casualties.
2. It will not accomplish anything, positive that is (see number 1)
3. It will end up costing billions of dollars more than the administration admits
4. It is counter to the wishes of a vast majority of Americans
5. It will do nothing to improve our security
6. It will increase the contempt that this country is held in by Muslims worldwide (not to mention the rest of the civilized world)
This thing is not about partisan gain (at least not for Democrats). If it was, Democrats would just sit back and watch as Bush hands them the White House and expanded majorities in Congress two years down the pike -- give him enough rope and . . .
Oh, and Americans dying "right here" had nothing to do with Iraq -- remember. Lol!

I agree, 20,000 soldiers is not enough, I say we send in 100,000...and of course the resident liberal crybabies at B4B would wholly support such a move.

Christ Almight (I hope that offended you) the libs are just so frippin' CLUELESS when it comes to military operations, it staggers the imagination. Did any of you even read the basics of the plan or did you see Bush's signature at the bottom and immediately decide to whine?

Dont you sissys at least want to see the new tactics or are you ready to simply throw up your hands and admit defeat? Wait, I forgot who Im talking to, sorry.

It will increase the contempt that this country is held in by Muslims worldwide (not to mention the rest of the civilized world)

Hate to break this to you, but we werent exactly held in high regard by the muslims before the war; a little thing called 'Support for Israel', maybe youve heard of it?

You see, muslims flew planes into our buildings, exploded our embassies, attacked our ships, killed our people and hijacked our airlines long before a single American soldier entered Iraq.

Bill- are you for:
1. Increasing the troops MORE than 20 K?
2. Getting out immediately?
3. Staying the course with no changes?

WHAT? You people are the majority. Sniping at the minority does noting.

WHAT IS YOUR PLAN FOR IRAQ BILL?

Bacon - thats because (as I've said before) virtually no liberals join the military. It will get worse as time goes on.

20K? uhm..... 20K?

A functional rotation is 3 men. Figure while 1 is fighting, the other 2 are sleeping or on other duty. That's a typical functional rotation.

20K is either poor planning or simply all our military can put forth at this moment.

I'm fine with threatening Syria & Iran, but if all you have is 20K to throw on the fire, then what the hell are we going to threaten them with?

What Rumsfeld & this administration have done to our armed forces is unforgivable. The President last night admitted that our Troops had been stopped from entering certain areas because they were under Shia control... What? No wonder we're in this mess. What other little factoids did you leave out???

I have family over there. We don't do this half assed. We fully commit, or we don't.

20K... Who planned this operation??? Sheesh.

Walcrowe - so you're for more? How many?

Walcrowe- The SHIA- who else?
--

Kahn come on and stop ridiculing America- 20k is nothing more than an attempt to hurt America even more.

You know if we any more "patriotic" moves by the right- we probably won't have a country left to argue in.

If it was, Democrats would just sit back and watch as Bush hands them the White House and expanded majorities in Congress two years down the pike -- give him enough rope and . . .

Be careful what you wish for...

If the dems were to control everything, then everything would be under your control. Border security, the WOT, Iraq, foreign policy vis a vis Iran, etc. And no one to blame when things go to hell.

Bill - Your are the majority. Why do you refuse to tell us your plan Bill? Why?

You are just hear to compain aren't you? No idea what to do? What?

c'mon 4th.

you guys have had the white house, both houses etc. for 6 years and you guys still blame Clinton.

gee, you'd hope we could blame someone in 2008.

Our efforts in Iraq as well as the ME in general are not happening in a vacuum. Caught this interesting piece of news at Michael Ledeen's blog earlier today:

And things are so hot in Iran right now that Iranian-made automobiles are setting themselves on fire all over the place. In the past six months, some seven hundred vehicles have spontaneously combusted in Tehran alone. Most of them seem to be local versions of the French Peugeot 405. (emphasis - mine)

Hot as hell.

If this is true it could change the dynamic just a little.

Bill - you are either very stuborn, very stupid, or both.

Kahn- why should any one come to teh rescue of someone who has taken America for a ride?

Where is theat integrity and responsibility from teh right?

it's your mess, you made it, now clean it up.

My bad- YOU CAN't- that's the problem isn't it?

If the dems were to control everything, then everything would be under your control. Border security, the WOT, Iraq, foreign policy vis a vis Iran, etc. And no one to blame when things go to hell.

4thLH, what are you -- a script writer for horror movies? If these kooks get control of all 3 branches of the government, it won't be a matter of whether or not things go to Hell, just how fast. Unless, of course, Kerry finally reveals his "secret" plan. That might save the day -- Nah, probably not.

Ill repeat: the libs seem not to have even the most basic grasp of what our military is capable of, as if ground troops are all we have to offer. Did you even read the plan?

Its Kurdish troops who are going to subdue Sadr, its Marines who are going on the offensive in Anbar, is the Navy planes who are going to start hitting the border crossings, the rules of engagement will FINALLY allow our guys to fight as they were trained.

Why do you think the Eisenhower was moved into the north I.O., because we planned to send infantry onto Iranian shores? The Eisenhower is an 'aircraft carrier'...meaning it carries aircraft....you use aircraft to attack things from the air...such as Iranian military targets..oh forget it, you LWA's cant understand.

you guys have had the white house, both houses etc. for 6 years and you guys still blame Clinton.
gee, you'd hope we could blame someone in 2008.

You must have missed the part last night when Bush said that any mistakes can be placed squarely on him.

Ill expand just a bit on what I said earlier; if you have total control, all your 'great' ideas will be possible. You get to author, pass and implement the plans for dealing with Iran, the border, NK, the WOT and everything else that affects our national security.

I STILL dont know what the dem plan is for Iraq, other than some indistinct idea called "redeployment".

For example, if the left is really as concerned about the Iraqi people as they claim, and we leave the country..Im sorry, 'redeploy'..to descend into civil war (something you constantly remind us is supposedly happening), what will you do then? How will you stop the violence and slaughter against the very people you are currently professing to have undying concern for? Send in the troops?

I find all the mention of "failures" to be interesting. A power mad dictator who WAS pursuing nukes and HAD used WMD on his own people(if you actually read the Dalfur report and and even Joe Wilson's report, instead of the spin by the MSM)is permenantly out of comission. Iraq and Afganistan have had free elections, both have economies that are now growing after being in shambles for decades. The violence in Iraq is contained in a relatively small area, mostly just Bagdad(which is why the surge might work)and is between groups that have hated each other for...ever. And NO SUCESSFUL ATTACK HAS BEEN MADE ON AMERICAN SOIL SINCE 9-11. This is the most important point, since that is really why we went to Afganistan and then Iraq.
Bush's failure has been in not keeping the successes in front of the American people 24-7. Of course, many lib's and virtually all of the MSM has been rooted for Bush to fail and have essentially created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

No spook, Im not a scriptwriter, though perhaps Ive missed my calling. @:^(>

I profess to having a sort of ghoulish pragmatism about the current political situation, one I certainly didnt invent; that Americans need to really understand just how incapable the dems are when it comes to protecting this country, and that might have to involve another terrorist hit.

The liberals arent taking this fight seriously and its going to cost us.

Kahn, you still haven't responded to my plan, so lay off Bill till you do, for all our sakes.

"President Stands Firm on Mission in Iraq"

That's the heading of this thread.

Chuck Hagel disagrees, Brownback, etc. etc. etc. etc

here is the latest from Hagel today kiddo's on W's Iraq token troop surge:

"...the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since Vietnam, if it's carried out.”
--

of course holy Joe rebuked Hagel. Oh well, you can have Liebermann. Fair trade i guess.

You are just hear to compain aren't you? No idea what to do? What?

Khan, Bill's not here to complain; she's here to refine her writing skills, and to prove that reatards need love too. I can't decipher whatever it is she is trying to say, although I do detect some gloating.

For my more learned friends here: It's all about principles here, and we know who has them. Those who stand by their convictions, despite what the polls say. We've had nothing but waffling by the left, and by those RINOs who are up for reelection in '08.

I wasn't too impressed with Bush's speech last night, but I'm glad he's going ahead with reinforcements for Baghdad and Anbar Province. And guess what? If Piglosi and Reid-tard don't get off their duffs and appease their base, the '08 DemocRAT National Convention may as well be held in Chicago...

We will take Joe, since he hasnt waffled on his opinion toward the war or the WOT. Joe...Joe...wait, is this the man who once held the VP slot on the DFL presidential ticket? The worm has certainly turned for him, hasnt it? Or has it?

Hagel, the same guy who once supported an increase in troops, saying "Lets get this thing done!" Is there a potential WH bid in his future?

of course holy Joe rebuked Hagel. Oh well, you can have Liebermann. Fair trade i guess.

No, Bill, whoever gets Hagel is getting the short end of the deal.

Gee 4th, spook- I thought only Presidents could flip flop?

I guess the continuity from the "succeeding" in Iraq in October was the means the same ting as "not winning, not losing" a week later in December.

right?

right, it's all so clear now.

--

BTW i am stil waitng for response as to whjy Bush lied for 4 years and said we were winning, then lied in December and said we were not.

which lie is it that is true? haha get it? Which lie is true?

Will the real lie please stand up?

wheeeeew

In case you haven't noticed W is the laughing stock of your own party. You don't need our help. W is doing fine by himslef. just go ask, Brownback, Hagel, Coleman, oh the list just keeps growing and growing and growing...sounds like an "Ever-Ready"bunny ad.

tragically for the right they wil nolonger have any trust by the AmericanPublic. the more W distaqnes himself from Americans the more his own party distances themselves from W.

Seems to me that the detriment caused by Bush is shaping up for a good outlook for 20 years or more. Of course the set-back has already started as evidenced by the mid-terms.

Well, i said it in 2000, then 2004 and stil do- the ship is sinking, but those faithful will stay on board. Well, Thanks for the bump.

Bill, are you Carol Herman's alter ego? Just askin'.

Yep, those plucky midterms, odd how so many bluedogs got elected when the liberal agenda was supposedly what America voted for.

Arent the dems against this war; quagmire, Vietnam, losing, lost, civil war, body counts...all the right words are being trotted out daily?

So why are the dems so reluctant to refuse funding for the war? Didnt America speak, didnt we ask for, nay DEMAND, that the liberals get us out of this 'mess'? Its what Im hearing from the DFL leadership, "America wants a new direction and we will provide it."

Your party should be providing leadership, bill, why arent they? Cut off money for the war, do it tomorrow, take us in the new direction that the people voted for, why arent the dems doing that? Haysoos Marimba, bill, what kind of people did we just vote in??? Dont they have the seeds to stand up and do whats right for America?

Ummmm, Pelosi says that America voted in the midterms to get out of Iraq; it seems the simplest way to do that is to decrease or refuse funding for further military operations, yes?

Shouldnt the democrats being doing just that, why are they not getting us out of Iraq? There must be something they are afraid of, like the reaction of the American voters. The same voters who, in the midterms, gave the democrats a majority so as to get us out of Iraq.

-scratches head-

Liberal logic at its finest.

Well Lose, that's the funny part huh?

You see we can just sit back and watch the W show. We all know the outcome. Just enjoy it while it's on. Sooner or later Barney and Laura may tire of the show too.

At some point in time we won't have to do anything. W has done so much damage to the GOP that it's actually pretty pathetic to watch.

I even think the current dissension from the right is entertaining. I bet it's got to be painful to stomach huh?

Alka seltzer?

You see we can just sit back and watch the W show.

Posted by: Bill Stensin at January 11, 2007 07:26 PM

Wasn't the reason you guys want out of Iraq so fast is to bring the boys home and stop the casualty count? So now you are saying the Democrats are letting it go and soldiers can die for political gain?

Nomad

This heir lyp has no clue what he's talking about...ignore him and may be he'll go away.

Bill - you said it was OUR problem and why help. So, yah - we lose. Thanks for not helping.

All you kooks are aware, aren't you, that Iran and Syria both support the DemocRAT position in regards to the troop "surge" in Iraq.

I must ask you kooks: How does it feel to break bread with the Bashar and MyMood I'minajihad?

hy, im goint to teh tipe lyk beal schull. I caint know how ta writ ur pit too santaces tugetther wifowt cumpleatly mawlink teh ainglush lankwich...

No, I wouldnt classify it as funny, in fact its distinctly the opposite. I find it continually sad that the left is spending so much time denigrating the POTUS, the troops and the war effort, as if we arent all in this together.

Why arent you pulling the soldiers out of this 'quagmire', this Vietnam-esque disaster, considering how much you care about their welfare, ala the sniveling Durbin? I guess ol' Dick decided the soldiers arent nazis after all, didnt ya Dick? Troops as pawns yet again.

The W Show is going to end, then it might become the DFL show throughout the system in 2008. Guess America might get a chance to sit back and watch them strut their stuff; dealing with Iran, North Korea, the southern border...

Yes, I will take that alka-seltzer. And a geiger counter, if you have one.

Funniest thing happened within the past 60 days or so (2nd week of november). The war in Iraq went from bush's and no one else's to the rest of the countires. Why is that?

Let me see....

oh i remember- That's becasue Bush lost conrtol over his sheep! Now he HAS NO CHOICE but to finally work with others.

Wow- Lose your'e right it is "our war". Cool does that mean Bush wil finally listen? from the sounds of last night i'd say NO!

--

any way- The W show is stil being aird, more andmore members of his party are up in arms, and more and more W just keeps on playing the same ol' song and dance.

Again, thanks for the bump in 2008. When it's all said and done, then will you guys finally be pissed at W for ruining your long built house? As per the midterms it is already shaking. As per the recent dissension form the right- it's moving along fine. Looks to me like W set you guys back 10-20 years if we add in the nixon blunder as a mold for this.

I'll write W a letter of gratidude in 2 years.

Thanks :-)

BS really is a true Democrat. Talks all about what's best for America, concern for the troops, and wanting to help the little guy. In the end, it all comes down to political advantage.

I'm proud to stand behind President Bush and our troops in this endeavor. Every poll thrown up in newspapers and news broadcasts say the people they talked to are against a troop increase. All you hear out of the Democrats are that it's a failure already. Some Republicans are playing the political field and saying it won't work. I'm proud Bush is a leader who is doing what he thinks is right. It's more than what Clinton would have done, or ever would do.

beal, yer a hoot, wif yer stoopid riting an' all...

Yeah nomad- tell me about 6 years of political advantage. And how many times W listened to anyone else?

funny, bi-partisan NOTHING existed for 6 years. now it's all about the dems stealing the show? give me a break- it's been 4 days for god's sake!

Nomad, where were you the past 6 years when it was ok for partisan politics?

Yeah, I thought so.

An even funnier thing has happened in the last 120 days or so (the run-up to the midterm elections); all the dems who approved military action three years ago, who advocated for more troops, who professed support for the war, have all fallen away. All except one. Why is that?

Let me see...

Oh I remember, the Windsock Party™ watched the breeze and decided it was time to turn away from the war and "find a new direction."

Or did they? Does continual funding of a war that you claim is useless a "new direction" or not? Is professing to support the troops while refusing to use methods that will bring them home a "new direction" or not? Is ignoring the supposed mandate you received from the voters a "new direction" or not?

Yes its OUR war, which means we work to win it, not wring our hands every time a mosque gets its paint chipped by an errant bullet. You do want America to win, dont you?

---------------------------------

Im watching a show too. Im watching the comedy that is the democrat party try to please the voters who elected the blue-dogs AND the voters who believe 911 was an inside job.

I remember all the screaming of "IMPEACH BUSH!"...where did that go exactly? Was that Conyers or Feingold? I watched all the DFL leaders run like hell from Sheehan and her posse, the crazies who are noisily reminding the dems who exactly got them into power and what they expect now that its happened.

This should be fun; bluedogs on one side who are beholden to finicky conservative voters, hard-left batshit crazy lib activists on the other. Grandmother Pelosi better brush up on her cat herding skills.

Lose- in all duty and honor to America- i am all for it. I think the American people desrve it. After all- W has gotten his for the past 6 years. Afterwards- will you guys then realize the ride he took you on?

I bet after investigation etc. And W admits it ALL, you guys will say something like "clinton told him to say that"

is that the jist of it? after W lays it all out on the table, are you guys finally going to realize he took ya? or will you stay in the "State of Denial"?

"State of Denial"? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You are so clever, where do you get this stuff? You could also have said, "Denial, not just a river in Egypt!" That would have been funny too! And original. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ugh..Im starting to get laughy cramps.

Anyhoo, satisfying the increasingly fervent and violent expectations of the strange people who now constitute the dem base with those conservatives who voted for gun-rights democrats will be quite the feat; I dont think it can be done. You dont have the votes, regardless of what Pelosi and Reid claim was a midterm mandate. One side loves the military, one side doesnt...quite the caucus you have there.

So there is the lefty conundrum; if you dont pass anything you will be labeled as lying do-nothings, if you try to pass and the votes arent there you will be labeled as ineffective do-nothings. The dems said they were given a mandate to change the course in Iraq, yet they are terrified of trying anything to make that happen. Lying or inneffective, take your pick.

Alka Seltzer©?

Wawilliyo:
--"most worse" - I was in a lather when I wrote that.
--I don't want the Americans to fail in this Iraqi mess Bush caused. I did say I was rooting for the American general in charge. There is nothing I would rather see than a stable democracy in Iraq. Only that would be defined as a victory for the USA. But it is just not going to happen. Give your head a shake!!

--And as for your comment "IF BUSH IS BEHIND IT, YOU'LL BE IN LINE AGAINST IT".
--Yeah, how is that working for ya? Chances are that if we are against anything Bush proposes, we will be right based on his miserable track record.
--Give your head another shake, you neo-con blockhead.

Disturbing to see that libs are libs no matter where you find them. So ready to throw in the towel, bend over and accept dhimmitude like proper little victims. But hey, when feelings are more important than results, you cant expect much of yourself or others.

Cheers from Blockhead Central, better known as blue-state Minnesota.

Bill,

Who has Bush had a chance to listen to in the past 6 years is the better question? You may think it's been partisan because hardly any ideas have been brought forward, or if they have they are changed the next day. The only thing I see consistent is criticism without options for political posturing. That is what I see of the Democratic party that has left me waiting.

Let's look at Kerry's run for the White House. For everything he said he had a plan, but he wouldn't initially bring it forward for people to judge. He wanted to stick with criticisms and vague promises. I don't buy a car in the dark and I don't vote for someone who won't say what they stand for.

Let's look at the current issue of raising the troop level. Pelosi and many others said it needed to happen, but when Bush looks at all the sources and goes with it...now it's not what those people want. If they felt so strongly about it just a couple of months ago, what changed other than Bush agreeing to it.

Look at Social Security. I was open to ideas. I won't say what I thought of Bush's plan, but what else did I have to base an opinion on. Criticisms are easy, but they don't fix things. Again the Democratic party was saying it needed to be fixed. When Bush came forward with an idea...everything was suddenly A-OK?

For the past 6 years I've been watching and voting with what I feel is the best plan...problem is, the choices have been slim.

Canuck:
You tard... do you even know what a neo-con is.

I was never a hippie liberal of the 60s since it was about 20 years before I was born.

So where did you learn that word? I'm assuming it was on the daily kos cause he thinks the lemmings who read his site think it's a bad thing to have the word conservative attached to them.

Could you imagine poor Secretary Rice today... sitting before a panel of senators all with inflated egos to begin with, but with about six of them all thinking they deserve to be President...

I think I would have just asked, are you asking me questions as a senator or are you just trying to put on a show for the netroots who you think will get you into the White House?

Maybe they should be busier doing their job then failing at getting a different one.

Canuck:
Sorry for the disrespectful word. However, I stand by the comment you have no idea what a neo-con is much less the reality of Iraq.

Further, you say you wish one general "bon chance" as it seems, yet everything else you seem to want to fail.

I've never seen so many cheerleaders who shout down their own team and root for the enemy while claiming to want to beat their enemies.

God bless our troops and God bless President George W. Bush, the greatest president in american history.

Rice had the same experience that Alito and Roberts had when they faced these fools; an utter astonishment at what a bunch of bloviating morons currently inhabit the DFL. All of them put together couldnt equal Condi's intellect even if she were stone drunk.

And youre spot-on with the cheerleading comment. How they can be so utterly ready to admit defeat is beyond me, without even a willingness to throw their full support behind the effort to win. They WANT us to lose, their can be no other reason.

Nomad- Since you have some sensible description of your views i wil address some things. I have to agree the Dems do not really bring much to the table. But hey- they ahven't had the oppurtunity in 6 years either.

Any way i realize the point you bring up- no plan, no optin etc. Just becasue some of them are clueless- doesn't mean charge full steam ahead (actually only 20k in this case) and add another pile of wood to the gasoline.

Since you sound somewhat reasonable Nomad- let me ask this simple question: does it make any since to just add more troops as the alternative to simply bringing them home? And this all in light of the ISG, even the dozen or so republican senators and congressmen that have 86'd Bush's intentions last night.

I suppose when it boils down to nothing or making things worse- i choose nothing. No-one with their head on their shoulders thinks more troops wil make things beter. Ate 4 eyars things haven't gotten better. They have declined (though we never were told that). But even if it slipped George's mind for the past 4 years it doesn't change the fact that things have worsened.

So asking for rason here- doe sit seem really plausible that 4 years of a war have worsend, and that 6 months of a war can change the entire picture?

Because that is what talk on the streets is- 6 months for Maliki to get it right. W has had 4 years and you guys really beleive 6 months will make a change for the better?

Just what were we doing for the past 4 years as W told us we were winning- i mean besides spending all that tax money the right hates to fork out. And of course killing our boys over there?

But seriously- what have we been doing for 4 years in Iraq? becuase now that the truth is out we see we were not over there winning anything but a big tab and American casualties.

God bless our troops and God bless President George W. Bush, the greatest president in american history.

Posted by: james allegro at January 11, 2007 11:59 PM

Agreed James!!!

man- i just suck Azzzz at typing. I remember back at my JC when all the Macs were introduced to the english labs.

I was scamming on this chic and never wrote a GD thing on the computers. But man she was hot! She even decided to come give me rides to school everyday. Then one ting led to another- and well you know.

I bailed and moved to the great Humboldt Nation- WOW! was i stupid- all the hippies on the EXTREME left had the same problem as the Tie guys on the EXTREME right. Just a different uniform. Yes the hippies go out of their way to dress up every day and grow dreads and smoke a bowl and not shower for three days etc. Only difference was their uniforms were prettier and had more color.

Well it was upon this realization that a hippies uniform wasn't much different than the tie guys- so yes kids- I went off and joined the Army.

And to this day have still not improved my typing.

And now you know the rest of the story.

OK I SUCK AT TYPING. sometimes spelling, but rarely on intellect.

What, you expect me to just diss on myself without 1 pat on the back?

But damn that chic was hot!

there is a a message in there somwhere- without being too didactic, but really about how different yet so similar we all are.

At least we all are under the red white and blue.

well- sleep well. I got to rest and come up with some new rants for tomorrow.

wawilliyo

Biden AKA The Alien, is posturing for the presidency by using the "I told you so" marketing theme. yeah, that'll get him elected!!
The only problem with this attitude, other than it is perceived as elitist and condecending, is that he'll need to explain, such as Hitlery and the other "gang of six" or so, why they voted for the war and why, if they're now so opposed to the war, didn't they cut off funding for the war.

The loony left has been clammering for their leaders to cut the funding, but thus far, I've only heard the Swimmer come out and support the legislation...but he was drunk on gin, so I can't tell if he was serious or not.

Bill is officially for "Staying the Course"! Wow. I thought Democrats got back in pwer because that wasn't working? Because that was stupid?

The insanity of Republicans is frightening. They continue with this rejected argument that Iraq is the center of our efforts on terror, front line on terror, fight terror there rather than here, or whatever is the latest buzz phrase coming out of the White House. The Neocons are making average Republicans look foolish as you continue to support this President and this craziness. Listen to some of your own senators, reps and Democrats. It is very simple. The center of the fight on terrorism is 1 Bin Laden and 1A Hasan Nasrallah the head of Hezbollah. When they are eliminated the center of terrorism will be there replacements. To think a civil war in Iraq is the center of terrorism is to be distracted from the real fight.

Did you see the tear on the Presidents face as he handed the Medal of Honor over to Cpl Dunham's family?
The tear of a President can't begin to compare to the sobs of 3000 mothers. (Ed. Note: No, but they do show that our President is a decent and caring man who understands that he has to answer to God for the deaths of men and women he sent into battle - and thank God we have such men and women.)

Josh - well just have your boys and gals in Congress stop funding the war they originally voted for. Oh, they won't do that? Democrats lied and people died.

Pat - 4th generation military here. Bunch of family in the military. One currently in Iraq (nephew), one just back (niece). I'm here to say as a family member - G. T. H. I don't believe you care about the military at all. You just hate Bush. Thats all - hate. ALL of the men and women in the military are volunteers. Most that have been to Iraq joined KNOWING they would go there. Re-enlistments are at an all time high. When you re-enlist (even a thick brained liberal should admit), you KNOW whats going on.

I'll believe you care when I see liberals start to join the military in anything but token numbers. AND - you control Congress - so vote us out!

Oh thats right... the liars thing.

The tear of a President can't begin to compare to the sobs of 3000 mothers.

Oh, Pat, you act as if these were children, and as if they were forced into the military. Who are you, John "Spitball" Kerry?

Oh, and to use your tired rhetoric, I will say the tears of a president can't begin to compare to the sobs of over 300,000 mothers whose sons and daughters were thrown into Saddam's mass graves.

Idiot...

Kahn- yep. And as soon as one of your family memebers die- then you'll change your tune.

That's this problem, isn't it. It's ok until it hits home. Look at the recent loss of one of the congresmmen's nephue- he now is against the war. it's commonplace. too bad.

But as often is the case it takes a kick in the head to make sense.

Why wait until it's too late? That is so horrible IMO.

nephew

Bill - what makes you think one hasn't?

Actually, I've been to the funerals for three Marines in my unit that I knew. Well, two funerals and a service actually. We never found the third body. I've had to help gather together the body parts of burned Marines and had the burned flesh come off in my hands. I know.

Actually, the son of a good friend died as a Marine in Fallujah in 2004. I remember telling his family (I worked at their grocery store all through high-school) how proud I was of him. He was a Marine. I know that he knew he was making a difference. I know.

Actually, my father was a disabled veteran from Korea. Among other things, he was a forward artillery observer during the battle of White Horse Mountain in the Iron Triangle. That’s the battle were our artillery fired more rounds and faster than any other battle before or since. I grew up in a house full of PTSD and flashbacks. I know the cost of valor. Yes, I know.

Actually, my brothers unit made up a good portion of those killed by Iran's proxy Hezbollah in Beirut in 1982. He'd just been transferred to Okinawa before they deployed. I remember him telling me about watching TV footage of people he knew searching the wreckage looking for bodies. He still tears up over it. I know.

"Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." What a great sentiment. Ad-libed at the podium by JFK. You have no clue what it means, do you Bill? Maybe Bill, some people realize that you can't just sit back and do nothing. Maybe we Marines KNOW we made a difference. I know.

I also know that to abandon Iraq now will lead to the slaughter of thousands of people. I know that Iraq would certainly end up partitioned. I know that Iran would certainly end up with control of even more of the worlds oil - and they would have a dagger pointed at the heart of China and Europe to force them against us. I know that there would be MORE terror. I know that we would be selling out people who trusted us, just as Democrats did in Viet Nam. I remember the slaughter that happened after that betrayal. And I remember how the liberal press that had helped bring about those murders sat on their hands in guilty silence while it happened. I know. I remember.

But unlike you Bill, I've done something about it. I wore green as has all of my family. My sons will be Army and Annapolis Marines. I know that this is their choice and I pray nothing happens to them. I know that we are in a struggle that you have little comprehension of. I know you are not planning on helping.

How’s that old saying go? Lead, Follow, or Get Out of the Way! Right now Bill, with your feigned support. Your statements that this is a Republican problem clearly show that you don’t think like an American. You are a Democrat before you are an American. To me, that means you are scum traitor. You are willing to see thousands of innocent people die because you hate George Bush. We don’t need the help of assholes like you Bill. Just get out of the way, will you?

BS
Regarding Kahn's post:

You may want to shut up on this one and move on to something a little more in your class, like pot production or muffler bearing manufacturing.

You've stepped on your di*k with Kahn and take it from someone from the Viet Nam era...shut-up!
You have no idea what you're talking about.

Kahn- get it one more time- i am a disabled vet. So blow that out your tail pipe. I have been and am part of this great country. And unfortunately for you Kahn i do care about our troops. I want to see them al live and certainly not DIE IN VAIN as W seems intent on dion.

You see CON, calling me names and spinning the truth does 2 things. it makes you look like an idiot. Then it it makes look like more of an idiot.

When you wake up from the buzz that W has you under, you might realize that troops ALIVE is a lot greater VICTORY than the death of those said troops. But i guess the only way to show ya is to kill more of them. Is that it CON? Why do you guys just persist on killing more of our kids for W's cause?
You see the more W carries the out the more abandmoent he gets from teh right. In case you don't read the news, or FAUX will not share it in a fare and balanced way, more and more republicans are abandoning Bush on this.

but i suppose that is irrelivant right? sort of like the irrelavancy of sending our troops to their grave for W's cause.

How long CON? How long are you and Navy, God is great, Spook, Mark, Matt, etc. all going to support W and his cause to endure the end to the live's of our troops?

because folks, the party of the right is opening their eyes and speaking out.

ensure, not endure

Thank God President George W. Bush is our president. Thank God.

Well Bill - why then are you gleefully looking forward to the slaughter of thousands of people and a stronger hostile enemy? What on Earth does this inconvenient truth have to do with George Bush?

You want a third of Iraq (the part with the oil) to go under Iranian control? What on Earth does this inconvenient truth have to do with George Bush?

You want our enemies to be certain that with Democrats in power they can go on murder and mayhem sprees with no regard to consequence. What on Earth does this inconvenient truth have to do with George Bush?

You know Bill, you could argue that FDR's emargo of oil and raw materials to Japan forced them to attack us. You could argue that weakness shown by Trumman led Korea to believe they could attack the South. You could certainly argue that bumbling by JFK and LBJ led us into Viet Nam. And that ham handed restraints and controls kept us from winning. But so what?

Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, it does not matter. The views you are arguing for will lead to thousands of dead and an awful situation in the mid-east. Don't you remember what happened when the Democrat controlled Congress cut off financial aid to Viet Nam? Saigon fell within the month - then the camps started filling up. That led to the wholesale slaughter of South Vietnamese. Then, guess what? Cambodia went crazy too! But so long as it was Vietnamese, or Cambodians, or will be Iragis it just doen't matter eh Bill?

You are a disabled vet - great. (I deleted several nast follow on sentences here)

You call me an idiot for telling you my personal and family history. I say F. Y. and the horse you rode in on. I say your hatred is blinding you to the consquenses of your choices. Is that you are being an idiot, or is it crazy, or are you an asshole? Since you dismiss my experiences and losses dso readily, I go with the latter.

Kahn- tell that all - every thing to ALL the republicans that disagree with Bush. Vome on tel all them how really important it is to stay in Iraq.

You seem to key in on me, the libs, teh lefties, Reid, Kennedy, etc. etc. and yet look at your own side in Wash. Tell me how liberal and leftist these guys are.

tell us all how the conservative right that is braking ranks is so fately liberal.

Tell us Kahn, Navy, any one?

You can't because it's NOT us crazy lefties any more. NO! it's not. the charade has gone on long enough and those on the right are finally showing a sense of Pride and Patriotism to our nation rather than allegiance to some misguided, miscalculated discombobulated attempt to conquer another country.

Kahn- it's not just me. There is a breeze a blowin'.

I would ass. I suspect those distancing themselves on the right are also realizing the legal aspects are inevitable. I suspect they gather that better to be smart than found collaboratively criminal and treasonous. And that their look on America is for the endearment of our great nation.

I suspect that the republicans that have kept their mouths shut for 6 years decided that reality is the Nation has to go on long after bush is removed from his war and position.

Yeah, Kahn it's us lefties opposing the war. I know, i know.

so cuss me out, lie, spin etc. B4B can ban me (though i am fairly nice compared to what i have been called). But that won't stop myself, congress **left & right** and the American people from seeing through Bush and the wound inflicted by he on our great nation. And gang that is because the true spirit of America can not be silenced.

well- aside from my lame typos, the message gets thoguh i think.

I have no idea why i would "ass"

Waailliyo:
I got thick skin, I am not going to whine to Noonan about being called “tard”. I called you a “blockhead” after all. I dish it out; I should not get upset to get it back.

Now back to the point at hand. My main point is that this Bush Republican administration is pathetically incompetent, the proof is in the puddin’. End of debate.

Neo-con. I made a point to goggle it a while back and saw several articles. They mentioned there is some dispute about a ‘one-size-fits-all’ definition for neo-con.. I copied and pasted a few blurbs.
1. Neoconservative – A "neocon" is more inclined than other conservatives toward vigorous government in the service of the goals of traditional morality and pro-business policies. Tends to favor a very strong foreign policy of America as well.

2. Critics take issue with neoconservatives' support for aggressive foreign policy; critics from the left especially take issue with what they characterize as unilateralism and lack of concern with international consensus through organizations such as the United Nations

3. The term is frequently used pejoratively. (this is how I use it)

Blah, blah, bla, George Bush Grrrrrrr, Blah. Get a clue Bill.

This is about the future of thousands of people and the political and power structure for an immensly important region. Finally, in another post you said you're for doing nothing - even though you've argued that this would lead to disaster. You said "Republican" deserved it. But the troops are flying American flags - NOT Republican flags. You are willing to sell them out and thousands of Iraqis because of your small minded bitter hatred.

Yes - sell them out. If you tie their hands and prevent them from winning, then that is selling them out.

Things looked bad in December of 1944 when those boys in the 101st were trapped in Bastogne. With YOUR way of thinking you'd be for preventing Patton from driving north to relieve them.

You accused me of not understanding because I didn't lose a family member - I proved you wrong, so you moved on. I do understand - do you? Yo answer none of the issues except to go back and blame Bush! Who cares? What are we going to do now? In other posts you said - nothing it's Republicans fault -. So, what? Let people die? Let Iran dominate? That's your plan?

You are blinded by hate. You disgust me.

Kahn- i say again:

"Kahn- tell that all - every thing to ALL the republicans that disagree with Bush. Vome on tel all them how really important it is to stay in Iraq.

You seem to key in on me, the libs, teh lefties, Reid, Kennedy, etc. etc. and yet look at your own side in Wash. Tell me how liberal and leftist these guys are.

tell us all how the conservative right that is braking ranks is so fately liberal.

Tell us Kahn, Navy, any one?

You can't because it's NOT us crazy lefties any more. NO! it's not. the charade has gone on long enough and those on the right are finally showing a sense of Pride and Patriotism to our nation rather than allegiance to some misguided, miscalculated discombobulated attempt to conquer another country.

Kahn- it's not just me. There is a breeze a blowin'.

I would ass. I suspect those distancing themselves on the right are also realizing the legal aspects are inevitable. I suspect they gather that better to be smart than found collaboratively criminal and treasonous. And that their look on America is for the endearment of our great nation.

I suspect that the republicans that have kept their mouths shut for 6 years decided that reality is the Nation has to go on long after bush is removed from his war and position.

Yeah, Kahn it's us lefties opposing the war. I know, i know.

so cuss me out, lie, spin etc. B4B can ban me (though i am fairly nice compared to what i have been called). But that won't stop myself, congress **left & right** and the American people from seeing through Bush and the wound inflicted by he on our great nation. And gang that is because the true spirit of America can not be silenced."

I'm not arguing with shadows Mr. Bill - I'm arguing with you. You are willing to let thousands of Iraqis die and to let the region be dominated by Iran. Is that your position boiled down without history or motives or isn't it?

it's truly not just me Kahn. Really it's not. listen to the voices of reason and those on the right. It's not us Lefties any more.

Good Bill. Thanks that clarifies your position so well.

You are willing to let thousands of Iraqis die and to let the region be dominated by Iran. You have no idea what to do, or if you do you refuse to say what it is. You are being deliberatly obtuse.

Great plan. Are you in Congress?

Blah, Blah, Blah. You're not even stating an opinion - just using up the Internet.

"I hope that everyone took time out of their busy schedule to listen to our Commander-in-Chief"

Uh, unless you're in the military he's not our CinC.

He's Commander in Chief of the military, not the country.

Of course for submissive authoritarian personalities, in need of a messianic father figure, the distinction is meaningless.

Unfortunately, your "Dad" is soon to become one of the most loathed EX-presidents in our nations history.

The Reality Based Community is now BACK in charge. The sooner you get used to it the better.

It's over

Kahn, yeah the one Al gore created, i know, i know.

Any way- here is some points you or others might address. I took that task so bestowed on me by yourself, and others in here. I decided to address REAL issues. there are 6 points. Take your pick.

http://www.blogsforbush.com/mt/archives/2007/01/the_widening_wa.html

Nope - no more diversions. You have no plan but to let people die and to have this vital area fall under the control of Iranian wackos. That says it all for me. No need to read anything else you post.

You advocate the death of children. Maybe you don't realize it, maybe you do. Doesn't matter.

c'mon Kahn- 12 out of 13 republicans can't be wrong... i got 6 points. They don't disagree with me. Theyr'e with my.

The left is moving in. The right is receding. slowly, inch by inch step by step.

C'mon Kahn, it's not too late. You can leave the dark side. Other replicans are doing it. Take that 1st step. slowly, there you go, you can do it. You see, you CAN have a heart in America and be proud.

http://www.blogsforbush.com/mt/archives/2007/01/the_widening_wa.html

You have yet to make a statement on YOUR plan for Iraq. G.T.H. I will not debate you. For one reason, you state no opinion.

The death of thousands of Iraqis including many children will be on your collective obstructionist hands. I mean that sincerly - baby killer.