Please call me when a Moslem group is upset over a Hamas bombing in Israel - after that happens, then I'll start taking into consideration allegedly hurt Moslem feelings.

Hear, hear, Mark! Usually, when I hear a so-called moderate Muslim confronted with this, they, more often than not, will bring up some isolated incident perpetrated by a McVeigh, or a Rudolph, and try to equate such incidents with the frequent violence perpetrated by radical Muslims.

And now they're talking about boycotting Northwest Airlines? Gee, guess which airline I'll be using, if I ever fly again?

Please call me when a Moslem group is upset over a Hamas bombing in Israel - after that happens, then I'll start taking into consideration allegedly hurt Moslem feelings.

Call me when any group of muslims denounces any other muslims for harming any non-muslims.

Saddam Hussein killed more muslims than anyone since the Mongols 700 years ago. Which muslims, other than his victims in Iraq, ever denounced him for it? How many muslims outside of Iraq condemn the sectarian militia violence there (other than those who blame it on the U.S.)?

I understand their concern.
I hate movies that make Irish look like terrorists...

The Irish Republican Army was organized to protect the Catholic population against the Ulster Volunteer Army. The UVA murdered Catholics in Ireland and stills murders Catholics in Northern Ireland. Were it not for the IRA, all the Catholics would be dead.

There are offshoots of the original IRA that are terrorists, like the Real IRA. But they defame the history of the IRA by using their name. They are angry people devoid of reason. Yet the IRA gets held responsible for the actions of faux IRA groups.

So when I see a movie making the Irish look like terrorists instead of freedom fighters, I get upset. Michael Collins is a hero to Ireland. He is the person responsible for its freedom from England, and yet he did this using terrorist acts (assassination and bombs). He had no choice. The British Army was too strong to fight for independence in an open war. The IRA was a heroic organization, but in the American media they are portrayed as terrorists.

Muslims are just ahead of liberals as the largest congregation of hysterical, frothing, conspiratorial, kookified, self-made victims on this poor earth.

They produce nothing, create nothing, invent nothing, contribute nothing to this world other than hatred and murder; a death-cult of 7th century barbarism. Libs, save me the tales about ancient things that muslims contributed to society, what have they done since 700A.D.?

What a cruel twist of fate that the majority of the worlds most important economic resource lies under the feet of the most backward people on earth, people who dont even have the ability to develop that resource themselves.

When I see Muslims marching in the street angrily denouncing violence against non-Muslims, then I'll care.

Bacon,

If what you say is true, then Iraq is hopeless.
"They produce nothing, create nothing, invent nothing, contribute nothing to this world other than hatred and murder"

If that is all muslims do, then Democracy is Iraq is a pipe dream.

I dont understand the contradiction.
I see many people on here denounce Muslims as a whole, but then on the flip side they claim that Iraq can be a success. If Muslims as a whole are inherently violent and preach violence, then Iraq is a lost cause.

Bacon,

If what you say is true, then Iraq is hopeless.
"They produce nothing, create nothing, invent nothing, contribute nothing to this world other than hatred and murder"

If that is all muslims do, then Democracy is Iraq is a pipe dream.

I dont understand the contradiction.
On one hand people denounce Muslims as a whole, but then on the flip side they claim that Iraq can be a success. If Muslims as a whole are inherently violent and preach violence, then Iraq is a lost cause.

You genuinely do not believe that do you?

IT, you may have failed to read the other parts of my post, Ill give you time now.

-Jeopardy theme-

All finished? I never said they (muslims) couldnt be reformed, merely that in their present incarnation they offer nothing. If anything, Iraq is an opportunity to pull them from their antiquated system and propel them into the 21st century. A good example always helps the reticent.

Like liberals, muslims have created a halo of victimization around themselves, a narcissistic mentality which conspiratorially blames everything bad on everyone else. Muslims and libs live by the same credo: 'There is no end to our rights and no beginning to our responsibilities', but that doesnt mean they cant be brought to heel, so to say.

IT, you may have failed to read the other parts of my post, Ill give you time now.

-Jeopardy theme-

All finished? I never said they (muslims) couldnt be reformed, merely that in their present incarnation they offer nothing. If anything, Iraq is an opportunity to pull them from their antiquated system and propel them into the 21st century. A good example always helps the reticent.

Like liberals, muslims have created a halo of victimization around themselves, a narcissistic mentality which conspiratorially blames everything bad on everyone else. Muslims and libs live by the same credo: 'There is no end to our rights and no beginning to our responsibilities', but that doesnt mean they cant be brought to heel, so to say.

I did read your entire post, it only consisted of one more sentence, so honestly I dont understand your sarcasm.

Further on in your post you stated they have not done anything since 700 AD.

So for 1300+ years they have done nothing.

Additionally you state they are largest group of self-victimization.

Given all you have said, you are still confident that we can make a change in Iraq in such a short period of time?

You give them quite a bit of credit then.

Remember those 5 imams kicked-off a northwest airplane due to the rucus their behavior caused?

What would u think if 5 muslim-lookin dudes all got-up from their seats & started praying to mecca as the plane taxied for take-off?

Well, northwest's management decided to pay them off rather than let a jury decide the imams' behavior resembled a desire to seek their 77 virgins in paradise.

Had northwest taken this to jury, I would've intentionally bought their tickets in admiration of their principles & backing-up their (reasonable) air crew.

Now - forgetaboutit just like I boycott corporations who cave to jessie jackson's shakedowns. I'll not subsidize gutless corporate hacks who, no doupt, excuse their own lack-of-backbone...behind closed doors...in typical passive agressive fashion.

A gutless, PR-driven decision once again clearly demonstrating the distinct difference between management & leadership.

Does anyone remember they banned "The Little drummer boy" because it showed Arabs in a bad light.

If these poeple were that concerned with world perception why do they continue to do the things they do?

I did read your entire post, it only consisted of one more sentence, so honestly I dont understand your sarcasm.

You must not have, for nowhere did I say that muslims were destined never to evolve or that Iraq was an abject failure.

Further on in your post you stated they have not done anything since 700 AD.
So for 1300+ years they have done nothing. Additionally you state they are largest group of self-victimization.

True and true.

Given all you have said, you are still confident that we can make a change in Iraq in such a short period of time? You give them quite a bit of credit then.

Nope, I give them some credit and as much hope as I dare; even a wild dog can be tamed sometimes. I give the largest amount of hope, credit and prayer to OUR people over there who are trying to point the way, who are trying to tame the beast. As I said earlier, a good example is needed, perhaps if the Iraqi muslims heed our example they can be one to other islamic nations in the future.

Maybe they just need to be people first and muslims second.

I think its all about "catapulting the propaganda".

One example might be:

Just about everywhere I read, or listen, someone is writing about what a DOLT your lord and master is.

Now really, is he that stupid? Many people think so. But, he did graduate from Yale, and some may say he flew a jet, these are not small accomplishments. Yet, listening to him, and seeing him sniggle at inopportune times may lead many to think so. I mean I STILL wince when I watch him rub Ms. Merkel's shoulders.

Yet, a poor reflection of his "legacy" seems to
be a dominant factor of many conversations of late.

How does this tie in? See, its about the
flooding of the media with dominant pound it over and over themes.

The sheep in this country become anesthetized to the broader picture of whats going on. They start to believe what is pounded into them.

And yet this is a difficult fish to fry. Some people may say that we only see the "bad" stuff in Iraq. Some, like me, view that we only see a portion of the "bad" stuff. We are not truly seeing how really terrible it is over there.

I for one, do not think Muslims are generically bad people. They are being painted that way. And yet the propaganda still gets catapulted.

One must still cling to what one can glean from the flood of information. I for one believe your Lord does not have all the "synapses synapsen".
I believe it is that bad in Iraq, and worse than the media paints it.

They have a right to complain. It is their right. You may not agree, but they have the right.

My "Lord" graduated from Yale? No shiite? Hold on a sec...

---flipping furiously through the Bible---

Nope, I didnt find any reference to God attending Yale or flying military jets. Where did you find that? Wait...is it the gospel of Matthew?

Main Entry: 1lord
Pronunciation: 'lord
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English loverd, lord, from Old English hlAford, from hlAf loaf + weard keeper -- more at LOAF, WARD
1 : one having power and authority over others: a : a ruler by hereditary right or preeminence to whom service and obedience are due b : one of whom a fee or estate is held in feudal tenure c : an owner of land or other real property d obsolete : the male head of a household e : HUSBAND f : one that has achieved mastery or that exercises leadership or great power in some area
2 capitalized a : GOD 1 b : JESUS
3 : a man of rank or high position: as a : a feudal tenant whose right or title comes directly from the king b : a British nobleman: as (1) : BARON 2a (2) : a hereditary peer of the rank of marquess, earl, or viscount (3) : the son of a duke or a marquess or the eldest son of an earl (4) : a bishop of the Church of England c plural, capitalized : HOUSE OF LORDS
4 -- used as a British title: as a -- used as part of an official title b -- used informally in place of the full title for a marquess, earl, or viscount c -- used for a baron d -- used by courtesy before the name and surname of a younger son of a duke or a marquess
5 : a person chosen to preside over a festival

Yeesh...

Bacon,

True you never did say Muslims would never evolve.
But if they haven't for over 1300+ years what makes this moment in time so different?

You can give hope/credit to our troops all you want, if their religion is inherently violent and full of hate, that fact combined with the given history you have stated, makes it seem impossible.

Lets use an alcoholic for an example. He/she has many tools and support available to them. Even if the tools are excellent and the support is highly trained , until the alcoholic wants to change their life, nothing will change.

Hearing you describe how inherently violent Muslims and the Islamic religion is and the 1300+ years of nothing but failures during that time, self-victimization, etc, do you think we can overcome those obstacles in a mere 6yrs? 10yrs?
It seems like a relatively short time to over so many things. Especially when the recipient of our help seems to display very little desire for help.

I believe if you ever visited Malaysia or Indonesia you would have a significantly different viewpoint of Muslims being abject failures. So many people focus on the middle east when looking for examples of Muslim culture, when in fact there are many other countries where Muslims, Christians, etc co-exist peacefully.

When I too, see Muslims marching in the streets, denouncing their "bretheren" that are radical killers, then I will feel for them. They should have taken the stance when our 3,000 Americans were killed on 9/11, but when I hear the occassional Muslim being interviewed on fox, etc, they are rather perturbed, that Americans don't seem to "embrace them". ARE THEY PUBLICALLY EMBRACING AMERICANS....HAVE WE HEARD IT?....HAVE WE SEEN IT IN OUR STREETS? .....HAVE THEY ENTERED THE ARMED SERVICES IN WAYS OF SAY-INTERPRETING THE LANGUAGE WE DON'T SPEAK? ARE THEY 'HELPING THE USA-WHERE THEY NOW LIVE IN FREEDOM?

IF MUSLIM PEOPLE ARE NOT ANSWERING ANY OF THE ABOVE QUESTIONS IN A POSITIVE MANNER, THEN I AMONG
MANY, WILL STILL MISTRUST THEM, AS THEY ARE 'NOT STANDING UP FOR AMERICA IN MY OPINION'.

WHEN I SEE THIS HAPPENING, THEN I WILL FEEL FOR THEIR "FEELINGS BEING HURT"...UNTIL THEN, I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN THEIR MOSQUES, CITIES WHERE THEY RESIDE, AIRLINES THEY TRAVEL ON, ETC.
AFTER ALL........IT WAS THEIR PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE
THIS TO AMERICANS---WHY DO "ANY OF US, HAVE TO TREAD LIGHTLY, FOR FEAR OF HURTING THEIR FEELINGS"? WE DON'T.

Fine, let them complain, but they really should focus their efforts elsewhere. A TV show doesn't hurt their "world reputation" nearly as much as constant suicide bombing, killing of non-muslims, and other such "negative behavior."

Honestly, actions speak much louder than words, or television shows for that matter.

Maybe 24 should depict ACTUAL atrocities:

Killing whole families in Israel.

Slicing the throat of victims and then decapitating them.

Stoning women in Saudi Arabia. (You should see how they do it, they drug them, and then dump the rocks on them with a backhoe.)

Suicide bombers in Indonesia, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Israel, Jordon, Pakistan, Iraq, and Jordan. Walking into a wedding in Jordan and setting off a vest bomb.

Killing hundreds of small children at a school in Chechnya.

Exploding car bombs in crowded market places. Then exploding second car bombs to make sure you kill the emergency workers.

Pushing women and children to the front of armed men shooting at Americans to act as human shields.

Dismembering American, Israeli, or any enemy soldier and dragging their bodies through the street.

Hanging burned dead bodies from bridges to spit at.

Using poison gas on whole villages of Kurds and on Iranian military formations.

Shooting a wheelchair bound man and pushing his body off a cruise ship.

Neclacing suspected "collaborators" in Gaza (look it up).

Flying huge airliners full of people into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Show them in graphic actual true detail.

How can anybody take CAIR seriously. We all know they are anti-american and support terrorist organization. I can't believe any T.V. news organizations use them or worst believe what they say.