A minimum wage of $0? Wasn't that tried for the first eighty years of the Republic? Wasn't it called "slavery?"

Where and when does it stop? $7.25, or whatever the leftist in Congress are fighting for, is not a liveable wage for a family. Of course, breadwinners who only qualify for that don't need a family.

Low wage earners that qualify for minimum wage are mostly recent high school graduates just starting out. Sorry, kids, but we all had to start at the bottom and work our way up.

"Nature's rule, Danielsahn, not Meagi's."

Personally, I think that the minimum wage should be determined by the state and not by the federal government, but I do think that a minimum wage isn't necessarily a bad thing.

A note about minimum wage earners in restaurants. Actually, at least here in Georgia, waiters and waitresses make less than the minimum wage before tips. At Loco's (where I worked over the summer), the wait staff made around $2.30 an hour. At least one of the waitresses had a child while working there. Now, to say that they only get their wage is wrong, I have friends who are able to get over $100 a night (attractive, 20ish female friends) in tips... But when they have to work a holiday or any other slow day, they can get well under the minimum wage.

Trying to fix poverty with a minimum wage increase is a lot like putting a band aid on a bullet wound; sure you did something, but did it really help?

Firstly the minimum wage is used for employees who most cases just starting a new job. If that employeee is worth more than an ounce of salt they'll be getting raises often..

But that isn't why I write..

For years I wondered why unions would give a hoot about the minimum wage.

Yeah it's easy to think they care about the little person...... ahhhh

but in reality.. here is their reason..

Union contracts with local, state and federal entities use the minimum wage as the wage index or better stated the base multiplication factor which is then multiplied by 3-3.5X to determine the union contract wage..

The Congress has just given union workers though maybe not immediate....... huge pay increases..

The union in turn will get more dues...

And we get _________(fill in)

Just another case of the Democrats socialist agenda at work.

Every time this topic comes up I've asked our resident Libs to cite me that article in the United States Consitution that authorizes the Federal Government to dictate to private business what they should pay their employees. I've read the Constitution a couple dozen times -- I haven't found it. Maybe it's in one of those penumbrella thingies, written in invisible ink. That's it! It's part of that treasure map written on the back of the Constitution in invisible ink.

Any one of you who is against minimum wage first should live on the current minimum wage for one month.

Try to find housing, health care and fund an education on $5.35 an hour and then come back here and cry about socialist agendas and labor as a commodity.

The problem with the "labor as a commodity" crap is that it can be reduced to the point where people will be forced to work just to barely stay alive and employers will only pay for such.

Another fallacy of this "commodity" argument is that we do not live in a purely capitalist environment left to market forces. We have collusion on the part of big business to eliminate labor as an expense and artificially force down its value.

Why do you think Emporer Bush wants to bring in "guest" workers?

The truth, something that is as rare in discussions about wages, is when workers are paid more the whole economy benefits. Higher minimum wages, whether legislated or not create economic health and secure a middle class lifestyle. Henry Ford knew this, Hoover did not. People must be able to afford the goods they labor to make. Or else nobody buys.

You less than wealthy folks marching in parades celebrating the wealth of the upper class are totally deluded and only contributing to your own economic servitude.

Wade

Hey spook- Can i hire your kids and give them $.45 per hour? is that cool?

Matt,
I'm betting that Senate Republicans do exactly what the (then) Republican controlled House and the (still -- until 2008) Republican controlled Senate did here in Michigan: They passed it so fast it made your head swim -- after blocking it for years. Once it actually looked like a minimum wage hike was going to be a referendum item, the GOP bailed on their "principles" immediately (it still didn't do DeVos, Bouchard or House Republicans any good).
Seems there just isn't the political will to lose your seat trying to stop something that a huge majority of voters favor (it was over 66 percent in Michigan)

Sal- they don't want to hear what America thinks.

I'm not worried at all cause I'm giving myself a $10 per hour raise. I deserve it and I'll pass it on to my customers and then when I hear them bitch and whine, I'll say, "write your congressman".

If the rest of the country can get a 35% pay hike without lifting a finger, other than to bitch...BS, then I believe all us rich biz owners deserve an equal increase. Isn't that fair BS and you libs.

You're all for equality, but when it comes right down to it, you really only mean the lower class.

This is a typical example of re-distribution of wealth.

"referendum item"

From what voting demographic Sal? Not the middle or upper class tax brackets, that's for damn sure.

The average wage in this country is $17.00 per hour, so what will need to happen to level the playing field or have you pin heads thought that far down the road...socialist morons?

Georgia:
You're right 100%. IF there is to be a minimum wage, let the state and cities determine what it should be. I live in Plano, TX, with the highest median per capita income in the country, and I can assure you, working at McD's here you make a lot more money than someone working at McD's in Sherman, just 30 or 40 minutes away.

It appears to me both parties want equality... it's just a shame Democrats in Congress today seem to want equality of result instead of equality of opportunity. Just don't trust the trust funds or the living wills they are getting their money from.

I wonder how much the average employee makes putting ketchup in a ketchup bottle at the factory that is responsible for John Kerry's comfortable life style?

Wade

How do you think we rich biz owners got where we are? In your opinion, did we simply inherit our riches, or did they fall on us in our sleep?

You leftys can never answer the age old question about how to get ahead in this world...you earn it!!

We have collusion on the part of big business to eliminate labor as an expense and artificially force down its value.

Here is the part the libs must have missed: businesses dont exist to provide jobs, they exist to make a profit.

Big business is eliminating labor? Well I certainly hope so if they want to stay in business. Ever wonder why there arent any companies that make covered-wagons around anymore, because...drum roll please...there isnt a market for covered-wagons.

Now what do you think happened to all the employees of those wagon companies when the automobile finally arrived? Did the wagon companies continue making a product nobody wanted merely to keep their employees working, or did they eliminate their labor? You get one guess.

Bongos:
They could be slapped in the face with facts and they could be shown reality via any medium (interpretative dance, shadow puppets, crayon drawings) yet they'll never understand how the market works.

All they see is that there are rich people out there and since they aren't as wealthy (at least not the liberal elites) they think they should punish people for success. It's interesting that liberals aren't talking about trust reform when they advocate for the double taxation on inheritances.

I wonder if Ted Kennedy could afford his booze he drinks to drown (pun intended) the sad facts of his past IF he didn't have the money made by daddy Joe breaking the law during prohibition.

Ill second navydad; somewhere in the past even those who inherited riches had an ancestor who started with nothing, literally nothing.

People such as Pelosi, who rode a limo to grade-school and now has financial interests that include vineyards, spas, restaurants and exclusive golf resorts. But she is a woman of the people, a caring democrat, right? Did I mention most of her workers are non-union? Ohhhh, embarrassing.

Why stop at $7.25, why not make it ten or twenty or thirty bucks an hour? Please explain.

Bongos,

We don't honestly believe these socialists could understand supply side economics now do we?
Keynesian economics is more their tune.

I would have loved to have kept my manufacturing here in the USA, but your first sentence only states part of the problem. The second part is laziness on the part of the American youth/people. The same youth that we're grooming to lead this great country has let us down as far as work ethic goes and we have only ourselves to blame.

Liberals will bitch and moan about not making enough $, but they typically don't do anything about it..other than bitch. Therefore, they get left behind to scoop up those Mickey D's jobs that are plentiful in the US.

BTW libs, do you remember what the minimum wage was enacted for? It's just like SS, it wasn't intended to be a road to wealth, just like SS wasn't intended to be a sole income, conversly, it is meant to be a stop-gap wage assistance program whilst a person, not a family, pursues better opportunities either through education or hands on training.

It seems that the crux of George Will's argument is that labor is a commodity. According to federal antitrust legislation currently on the books, labor CAN NOT be considered a commodity. I'm not saying I agree with a federal minimum wage, but let's discuss facts.

Any one of you who is against minimum wage first should live on the current minimum wage for one month.

Wade, you smug little socialist, I can't speak for others here, but I'm betting most have worked, at one time or another, for minimum wage for longer than a month. My wife and I, when we were first married, worked my last two years in college for minimum wage (or less). I bagged groceries, drove and ice cream truck and started my own business selling party favors and sweatshirts to fraternities and sororities, all at the same time while carrying a 3.0 gpa.

Hey spook- Can i hire your kids and give them $.45 per hour? is that cool?

Time for your meds again, bill.

Min wage has certainly morphed into something else, now hasnt it? Sad sad sad.

Those terrible Big Business fiends, who dare they give us safe medicine, electric lights, indoor plumbing, a diversity of foods, and the computers that we are using at this very moment. Why, their actions are criminal!

Wouldnt it be better if the government mandated not only what a company must pay its employees, but also how many employees it must have? Sorry, you cant upgrade your facility, it might cost someone their job.

Amen Spook,

You won't find it there and you also won't find the right to abortion in the 4th amendment and a myriad of other social causes dems feel they're afforded by the constitution. People need to realize that this country is a republic that is guided by the constitution and is not a democracy that allows a misinformed majority rule. Unfortunately this country has been run like that for the past several decades.

Navydad:

Wealth in this country is seldom earned through hard work and sacrifice.

You should wake up from you pleasant but misguided daydreams of Horatio Alger and take an honest look around.

Educational opportunities shrink as more wealth is concentrated in the hands of fewer people and the war budget drains funding of all other social programs that could help people achieve. That's the reality.

Most of the "wealthy" people came from wealth and inherited it. Or do you think Paris Hilton worked a few long nights to get ahead?

Big Government conspires with big business to ensure further wealth for CEO's and politicians. We see this in the tax give aways to Big Oil.

Come on you think this is a free market economy we live in? The Government bailed out Chrysler, remember? And HomeDepot gives $200 million to a fired CEO. Yeah right. What do you get when you get fired, eh?

You guys buy this crap that there is equal opportunity and some sort of level playing field like it was on sale at Wal-Mart. Suckwers....

Try starting a software company, car company, food service firm or brokeage house and see how far "hard work" gets you. Or see what connections and the right family name can get you, such as Bush.

The one institution that does give some help to those who want to rise up you are most eager to tear down, that being the public education system. Funny how the ubber rich want to destroy that same institution and rely on well-connected private schools to secure their positions.

Wade

Sal- they don't want to hear what America thinks.

That's right, Sal--we want to hear what Bill thinks.

The average wage in this country is $17.00 per hour,...

Works out to $35,360/yr., before Uncle Sugar gets his cut. Not a lot of money, if you're trying to raise a family. With my military retirement, my below-national average paying job, and my lovely wife's decent DoD salary, we're pulling down over 100k, and we don't exactly live like royalty here in the PRMD. Raising the minimum wage isn't gonna do squat for the two people who are trying to raise their families on it. It's all a political issue, and class warfare. This is the left's playbook--it's been this way for about half a century. Socialism. You want socialism? Move to Venezuela; Hugo's waiting with open arms...

Hmmm, lots O' crickets here since the tough questions started getting asked, those which go beyond any that can be answered by "But its the NICE thing to do!"

"Any one of you who is against minimum wage first should live on the current minimum wage for one month".

I once saw an episode of 30 days. For those of you that don't know, 30 days is a "documentary" style show that has the very liberal Morgan Spurlock taking part in some of the "social ills" of society for a period of 30 days. In this one particular show Morgan and his girlfriend attempt to live for 30 days on minimum wage. The show was flawed from the very beginning. In Spurlock's attempt to find a minimum wage job all he could find was a day laborer job paying $7.50hr. His girlfriend ran into the same "problem", she was hired as a dishwasher making $7.00hr. I found it funny that in their attempt to make a statement about giving American workers a wage increase they themselves had to be thinking "wow, maybe the free market system we have in this country actually works.

People need to understand that supply and demand doesn't only pertain to products, it also pertains to employers and employees. When the economy is strong you have employers competing for the services of potential employees, when this happens you begin to see starting wages and benefits increase. For example, over a decade ago McDonalds
starting wages were below $6 an hr. Today they range from $7.50 - 8hr. When this happened the rest of the service industry fell in line because they realized they would need to be competitive to gain employees and to keep the ones they had.

The system works and the liberals hate it.

Retired Spook:

I am no socialist, likening the result of socialism to what happens to the public restroom at a roadside gas station.

What I am against is our current economic system, largely a Republican created monster, of Corporate Socialism. The State and Big Business work together to set policy to further their power and profit at the expense of everything else.

THINK for a moment how much tax revenue goes to subsidize big business through tax breaks and giveaways not to mention the straight out handouts to agribusiness, big pharma, oil and car companies. This is simply corporate welfare.

So while 100's of billions of your money are freely handed out to these poor struggling companies like Exxon and Pfizer, you decry the few million it would take to vaccinate all people living in U.S.

So while you ignore the vast tax breaks to Wal-Mart amounting to billions of you taxes, you scream for the heads of all "socialist" demons in the Democratic Party when they want affordable healthcare for all American children.

And while you raise not even a whimper over Haliburton's known fraud costing taxpayers billions you take up arms against any "commie Democrat" who wants to guarantee all qualified high school students a place in college.

So while we see America failing it's youngest, depriving its best qualified and ignoring its vulnerable, off you go to Wal-Mart to buy that communist made DVD player for $29.99.

Wade

Yeah, $35k isn't a whole lot-o-dough, but either ya get edumacated or ya ends up lyce Bill.
LOL!!

Wade
While many believe that raising the minimum wage is necessary for the downtrodden, think again. Minimum wage is a starting point, increasing it effects the economy. If not, why $6.50 or $7.25? Why not $15.00 or $20.00? Why not make minimum a living wage of $50,000 yearly? Who pays for these increases, the employer? Think again. It isn’t any different than with theft, energy or freight, such increased costs are usually* passed on to the consumer. What consumers are affected most by increased prices? The poor and the elderly on fixed incomes. Add, that such wage increases attract more educated and skilled individuals starting out, increasing the pool of applicants, making the odds less for the less educated and less skilled, to get the jobs they really need. For small business, to remain competitive, it means cutting labor* to accommodate the mandate. Include that the average family income of all minimum wage workers is $45,200. How? Because they aren’t the bread winners in the family.
Your support seems a gesture of compassion but turns into nothing more than a pat on your own back. You think you’ve done something good for the less fortunate, when in all actuality, in the long run, you’ve made it worse for everybody, especially those you attempted to help. It is another one of those liberal feel-good ideas derived from emotions. Like the welfare state and etc., in government, it doesn’t matter that it fails, what’s important are the intentions, it gets votes.

navydad, don't start a sentence with a Cap--Byll woodint opprove...

Speaking of BS. Where did he go?
Maybe he went off to take a fatty nap after his meds.

The loons don't care to engage unless they feel the engagement is winable...sound familiar?

What a bunch of socialist Chavez lovers.

They're socialists, alright. Probably have nothing to lose, or are going college on mom and dad.

navydad, we shud stat mispelin awl r wurds lyk beal do's. mebbe heal git tard uv it...

At those times when the minimage isn't baleful, its worthless - but, as we live in the Age of the Emotional Dimwit, this is just something we have to put up with. Out here in Nevada, my fellow Nevadans OVERWHELMINGLY approved an increase in the minimum wage - usually, Nevadans are smarter than that, but somehow when it comes to a minimum wage increase, the idiotic story of some alleged family of four trying to struggle for years on the minimum wage appeals greatly to the emotions - even though it is 100% certain that at least 99.9999999% of the people have never even seen a family of two trying to struggle for years on the minimum wage, let alone a family of four.

Ah, well, we conservatives will have to, once again, clean up the mess of those who want to exhibit their moral excellence at no personal cost to themselves...we'll have to figure out a way to get tax cuts through a Democratic Congress in order to compensate for the bad effects of stupid increase on a moronic minimum wage.

...we'll have to figure out a way to get tax cuts through a Democratic Congress in order to compensate for the bad effects of stupid increase on a moronic minimum wage.

Mark, be careful; our less-educated trolls will misinterpret your statement as implying that they're morons because they only make minimum wage.

Beall, ho mulch doe does yew maik?

Well, its always been about 'feelings' on the left, reality is too difficult for them.

We always have to hear the generalized, anecdotal and usually false tales of woe; the family struggling along on a dollar a day, the young girl poking her uterus with a coat hanger, the misunderstood cop-killer, because thats what its always about to the liberals.

You can give away billions for some social program, then a 'sensitive' liberal spots a bum living under a bridge and the call goes out for even more money. The left just cant rationalize that the world will never, ever be perfect, that there just are going to be people who live on the edges no matter what you do.

When ANY lib, including the rich elite, can explain to me why we havent raised the min wage to $20 per hour, then perhaps Ill start to listen to them more closely.

navydad, we shud stat mispelin awl r wurds lyk beal do's. mebbe heal git tard uv it...

keefer,thast jus to funy. LMAO!!

Beal rilly is a breth of frash aire, in a previrted sort ov wey, rite doun to hiz inishals. yu dont supoze were beeng scamed, doo yu?

Tes, Spook, I believe beels wun ov them thangs we cawl "spoofs." Ether thet, oar heez a beeg maroon...

i have said this here before, but it has apparently fallen on the libs deaf ears.
There are some jobs that are worth only so much, no matter how good you are at it.

Wade and his dumb remarks totally ignore the fact and Marks words that no one works for minimum wage except for high school seniors.

Anything economic that is propped up artificially looses value, including human capital.

it is 100% certain that at least 99.9999999% of the people have never even seen a family of two trying to struggle for years on the minimum wage, let alone a family of four.

What the wage-raisers don't understand (as has already been stated above) is that minimum wage is not for supporting a family, but for getting started on that lowest rung of the ladder, so that you can then work your way up to where you can support a family. A few years back, Juan Williams, a lefty on Fox News (yes, there are such people, believe it or not), had a suggestion that minimum wage could be related to marital status. Got a family to support, get a higher minimum wage. The only problem I have with his idea is that by the time most people get married, they've moved up from minimum wage, it wouldn't have too great an effect. On the other hand, perhaps it would provide an incentive to get married, especially if you've already produced offspring. Having kids without getting married is one of the main causes of poverty.

Yeah, $35k isn't a whole lot-o-dough, but either ya get edumacated or ya ends up lyce Bill.

Or az Kerry sedd, if ya don't get edumacated, ya ends up in Irak.
(Seemz wee gots owr own noo dyalekt heer.)

Keefer & Spook

I haven't belly laughed like this in months!!!

Right on, Bigfoot; nobody lives on minimum wage, It's all about politics, and the left kowtowing to the unions. Teddy Kennedrunk couldn't care less about the little guy...

Well, its always been about 'feelings' on the left, reality is too difficult for them.

I assume, then, that you're completely disgusted by the right's "farmers will lose the family farm!" rhetoric/utter appeal to emotion regarding the estate tax. Especially considering that, you know, the estate tax doesn't cost people "the family farm." Or is "reality too difficult" for you?

I say let the federal minimum be $0. All the blue states have minimums higher than the federal. Let the reds drown in their own greed.

Bongos: "You can give away billions for some social program..."

I'm glad you didn't say "military programs". Lol! Seriously though, it's important to keep things in perspective. One part of that perspective is to appreciate the fact that increasing the minimum wage isn't exactly a hand-out -- it's going to people who actually work. They're not bums in the most expansive sense of the word.

A second part is this: George Will claims, "Most of the working poor earn more than the minimum wage, and most of the 0.6 percent (479,000 in 2005) of America's wage workers earning the minimum wage are not poor. Only one in five workers earning the federal minimum lives in families with earnings below the poverty line." Unfortunately, he didn't offer any citations that would allow anyone to check his claims. And that, to me, is a big problem, because I've read wildly different estimates. In fact, the only ones I've read that are anywhere close to his figures come from studies that are at least 10 years old. As I've mentioned before, definitive statistics are maddeningly hard to come by. And if you don't believe me, try it.

A third part is this: the vote in the House was 315-116. That's 73% of the vote. And that's WITHOUT the conditions Bush made it known he felt were essential. Ouch.

By the way, does anyone remember what Bush's conditions were? It only requires a memory retention of about a month.

For the record, I agree with Frawg and wawilliyo, that minimum wage statutes are more appropriately established on the state or even municipality level, not federal. On the other hand, this issue was the epitomy of low-lying fruit -- so much so, IMO, that the GOP should have seen it coming, and done something about it before congress changed hands. Had they, perhaps Bush's conditions would have had a fighting chance -- and in the process they would have robbed the Dems of their first big, fat, gimme.

In every case, and on every issue, there is an objective reality (which is rarely known with anything approaching complete accuracy) and an ideological or subjective "reality" (which is always known in every individual with absolute clarity because, after all, everyone gets to make it up in their own minds). Then there's the political "reality", which lies somewhere in between.

73% without conditions guys. Once you stop belly-laughing you might want to consider that.

Then why not have all those blue-states raise the minimum to twenty bucks, while the red-states "wallow in greed"? Why stop at $7.25, give me a reason, any reason will do?

Do you really expect a family of four to survive on 15k a year, thats not very conscientious of you. Raise it I say, show us all how you have gone beyond the bourgeoise notion of greed.

While we're on the subject of "greed", you have given away all your disposable income to a less fortunate family, correct? Instead of taking a trip or buying a large tv, you instead gave the money to a needy family...am I on the right track?

Just want to make sure youre not being "greedy", seeing as how youre a progressive blue-stater and all.

All kidding aside, Rico, raising the minimum wage is just a politically popular thing to do, so 73% of the pols just did the politically popular thing. Color me shocked. I don't read a whole lot more into it than that. The fact that it had been a decade since it was last raised made it an even easier political decision. Some pols might have had a hard time explaining a vote against it in the next election cycle, but I can't imagine anyone losing reelection because they voted for it. I just think it's a bogus Federal issue since wages vary so much from state to state and region to region. As has been noted by several here, many states already pay substantially more than the Federal minimum.

Something none of the lefty's are saying is how much they currently earn or how they arrived at that level.

How many depended on federally mandated wages to be where they are today?

Why stop at $7.25, give me a reason, any reason will do?

LTB, you're not going to get a reason out of any of the Libs, and therein lies the fallacy of a Federally mandated minimum wage. Most of them don't even know why they're for $7.25, other than it's a compassionate jesture to those at the bottom of the economic ladder. The legislators, OTH, particularly the Dems, are more interested in rewarding their union supporters and in the effect that the process of raising it has on those in their first job. What better way to cultivate young Dems than to show them you care about them so much that their first raise is going to come from the government. And the 80 or so Repubs who went along with it? There's always a certain number of "gotta go along to get along" wimps in every crowd.

Why will none of the libs tackle such a simple question. One last time: why not raise the min wage to $20 per hour?

-chirp chirp chirp-

Funny, how it is the libs who champion a high minimum wage. Must be that we are lib heavy in the lower unskilled uneducated workforce. Now why would that be? My guess is that they are all as dumb as the posters in this thread, and want the money of others who actually work at a higher level. The answer to increase your wage is to get another job....if you are brain dead as most libs are, no one will hire you and the cycle of poverty continues. Soon, all libs will abort their own kind or cycle themselves into an underclass. No wait, they are already doing that!!! Right wade boi? LOL

Hey Bongos:
How much do you think that burger at TGIFridays would cost you if the minimum wage were $20.00.

And the fact that I make around $30.00 an hour, will I be able to afford that burger?

Thats the dirty little secret the dems wont talk about; the ones in power understand the economics, theyre hoping the cattle never do.

This is a feel-good voter grabbing measure, nothing more. Not for a second do I believe that the gazillionaires who lead the DFL actually give a hoot about their low class constituents, but perception is everything.

The low end gets a miniscule boost, the dems pat themselves on the back and the media trumpets all the lives that will be saved by democrat courage in the face of greedy republican money-grubbers. And the question of why not a substantially higher min wage will never be answered.

Last night after the President's Speech, Dick Morris nailed it right on the head... the Democrats, and the media establishment have one mission, and it's not to see victory against terror, it's to see a certain person named Clinton elected President. Anything that doesn't fit that plot isn't going to make the news.

I was surprised that I found a good article about federal entitlements on msnbc.com. Too bad no one has the balls to deal with it, but instead we'll do something that effects nearly NO one that needs the help, while allowing medicare, medicaid, and social security to become the anchor tied around my generation's neck.

I can't link to save my life but here's the article I was speaking of.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16562633/site/newsweek

Remember how in 2004 Kerry went around all over the place talking about how entitlements needed to be fixed. And Bush did too.

Except once Bush suggested a fix... Democrats oddly said everything is fine... no need to fix ANYTHING. Why fix something that's not broken.

Man... I wonder if Bill/Jenn or any other liberal on here has heard of the word "opportunism."

And a hell of an anchor it is, get used to the idea of waiting until age 70 to collect your reduced pittance.

Look on the bright side, the bus-building industry is set to take off; all the bombed-out ones are going to need replacing.

How do you say "Is that a bomb in your pants or are you just happy to see me" in arabic?

Don't steal my idea, but I'm going to open a customizable flack jacket company for the liberal elites of New Medina (formerly New York City) so they can look fashionable as they're being shot at by the religious police for being out in public without a male family member as an escort.

Too late, Ive already applied for patents on several accessories that no self-respecting, liberal elitist should be without, including: vanilla-latte scented burkhas, diamond encrusted knee pads for praying five times a day and halal vegetarian cookbooks.

My personal favorite invention is a replica of those Afghan hats that look like a stack of pancakes, except mine will really be made of pancakes. Just think of it, you can attend a fashionable Jew-torturing party in upper Manhattan, then eat your hat for a nice snack.

min wage is a states' rights issue...just like schivo.

BOTH sides of the isle should stay in their own reservation.

I know I'll catch flack for this. But don't we biz owners only give raises when we're making a profit? I know I do.

The government hasn't been run like a biz over the past eight years..not six, therefore there has been no profit..or breaking even, just an example, but the libs don't get the connection and they also don't realize that the tax system was set-up to "break even" not for "profit" as they think.

But due to their ignorance of how government works, they've been brainwashed into believing that the government should have a surplus...OF OUR MONEY!!

Thus the Clinton victory in 96' all due to perception and if one were to poll, they would find that the number one most memorable issue of the that era, was the surplus...but only with the libs.

"The first member of the "baby boom" generation to be elected president, turned that vision around and portrayed himself as a forward-looking leader, unafraid of technological change, global economic competition or the challenges of a racially and culturally diverse society. Clinton asked voters to help him build a bridge to the future."

Looking back, boy what smoke and mirrors!

The reason the minimum wage wasn't raised in the latter part of his term was that politically, the pols didn't need too...it's that simple.

Well, looks like we will be paying more for our Big Macs... doesn't surprise me... we pay more for everything these days.

To comment on a comment... Someone mentioned that this country should be run like a business... I agree, but let's get a "Real" businessman in there, one who successfully ran a profitable business. Not like Bush who bankrupted every business he had full control over... Look at this country now... Can a country go bankrupt? He sure seems to be trying his best to make it so.

Great Job there Bushie!

Sorry Bongos! The diamond encrusted knee pads were already invented by Slick Willie and used by Monica.

"I bagged groceries, drove and ice cream truck and started my own business selling party favors and sweatshirts to fraternities and sororities, all at the same time while carrying a 3.0 gpa"
-- Retired Spook
Gee whiz -- that must make you just about the smartest, man-of-the-people winger at this site!

Gee whiz -- that must make you just about the smartest, man-of-the-people winger at this site!

Sal, normally I would tell someone making such a comment to GO TO HELL, but in the interest of the new tone on this blog, I'm not going to do that.

Hi -- I have a comment and a question on a couple of Retired Spook's posts.

In one post, he asks for someone to "cite [him] that article in the United States Constitution that authorizes the Federal Government to dictate to private business what they should pay their employees."

In another post, he talks about having "worked [his] last two years in college for minimum wage" without ending up in the poor house.

Regarding the first post I mentioned: Retired Spook doesn't seem to realize yet that each individual specific power of government is not explicitly named in an article of (or amendment to) the Constitution. The Constitution allows Congress, as representatives of the people, to pass all sorts of laws according to the will of the people. It can regulate the minimum wage businesses pay, the health/safety standards they must follow, and even the products that they can and cannot sell (there's no cocaine in Coca-Cola, any more!). So it does not suprise me that he doesn't get many responses when he asks people which article of the Constitution specifically allows the federal government to set a minimum wage -- the question itself shows such ignorance of the Constitution and our system of laws and government, that it hardly warrants a response.

About the second post I quoted: I would like to know what year it was when he survived on minimum wage -- and then, I'd like to look up what the minimum wage was at that time, and adjust it for inflation into today's dollars. If the result is greater than $5.35, then I'd ask Retired Spook to explain why HE deserved the higher wage when HE was younger, but people today should have to live on less (in today's dollars).

Sal, normally I would tell someone making such a comment to GO TO HELL, but in the interest of the new tone on this blog, I'm not going to do that.

Don't worry about Sal, Spook--he'll get there soon enough. For now, he's a condescending bttip mf.

First, the establishment of a Fair Labor and Standards Act is allowable under inter-state commerce clause and has been adjudicated to apply to any enterprise which can be defined as such. In 1974 FSLA was amended to include Federal employees and certain other job sets. State employees are exempt by legislation.

“The Constitution allows Congress, as representatives of the people, to pass all sorts of laws according to the will of the people.” In 1802 the Supreme Court ruled that the will of the legislative bodies are superseded by adherence to the Constitution, not the other way around.

“people today should [not] have to live on less” FSLA determines what employers must pay; there is no place in any legislation that states what employees must make. No one in this country is forced to work for minimum wage or any other wage.

About the second post I quoted: I would like to know what year it was when he survived on minimum wage -- and then, I'd like to look up what the minimum wage was at that time, and adjust it for inflation into today's dollars.

yekepyt, (you've got to get a screen name that's easier to type) your questions prompted me to do a little research as well as search my memory.

I graduated from college in December, 1967, so the earnings shown for my wife and me on our Social Security earnings statement for 1967 of $3,751.00 was for my entire last year of college. Just as a side note, I got no help from my parents after my wife and I got married, and I don't think there was such a thing as student loans back then. If there were, I didn't take advantage of them. We rented an apartment, and even bought a used car. I can recall that our goal when grocery shopping was to average $2.00/bag (the big brown paper sacks).

As I said, I worked 2 part-time jobs and started a business selling party favors and sweatshirts. I bagged groceries for, to the best of my recollection, no more than $1.00/hour (I'm thinking it may have only been $.75/hour; minimum wage from 1963 to 1967 was $1.25/hour but back then many business like grocery stores were exempt.) I also drove an ice cream truck for $1.00/hour plus a small commission, so I guessing that job averaged pretty close to minimum wage. My wife worked in the campus library, and all I remember is that here take-home pay was $239, once a month. I think it worked out to around $1.50/hour.

It's not as simple as applying inflation to those figures, because federal income taxes back then were substantially higher than today, and the SS/Medicare taxes were lower. Someone today making the adjusted-for-inflation equivalent not only wouldn't pay taxes, because of the EIC, but would actually have a negative tax situation. My youngest daughter did that her last year of college in 1999.

Would you care to guess what inflation has been since 1967? According to an inflation calculator website I used -- 985% or an average of about 6.2%/year. That would take 1967's $1.25/hour to $12.31 today, adjusted for inflation. Based on a discussion we had here a couple weeks ago, that sounds about right.

So I guess the question is, why didn't the Dems raise it to $12.31/hour? Why did they stop at $7.25?

My comments about the Constitution were sort of tongue in cheek. I'm not inherently opposed to a minimum wage, but with the wide disparity of living costs across the country, I don't think the Federal Government should be involved.

My wife's (yep, same wife) calling me for supper. I hope I answered your question.

I don't understand why being a Republican means having to be siding with unfettered capitalism. And before you call me a Marxist-Communist, I will say that I have voted Republican since I've been able to vote, and hate Communism with a passion, much to the dismay of my peers attending university in Connecticut.

We need a mandated minimum wage (whether it is by state or federal government), because with globalisation in full force, those in the lower income brackets would make even less than they do now.

There should be some distribution of wealth. A healthy economy dictates that this is done. If companies want to make profit, consumers need a source of income to purchase these products. Relying on foreign sales means a large percentage of the American population becomes piss poor (moreso than now).

And with the allowance of illegal immigrants through the inability to catch many of those who cross the border, this means that they take up jobs that legal immigrants and American citizens should have. Now, even if the problem of illegal immigration would be 'solved', not having a minimum wage while allowing legal immigration would drive down wages. This was the whole reason about Bismarck's social insurance laws. This is the capitalist West's answer to communism/socialism - and it works!

Mitch

Raising the minimum wage was a small but needy step in fighting poverty. Although $6.50 and hour is not much of an increase, at least the people of the United States have finally realized that something needs to be done. It is a shame that the richest nation in the world has one of the highest poverty rates in the world for developed countries. This is not because the United States is full of lazy downtroddin people, but it is because taxes, legislation, and economic reform is usually catered to benefit the rich. This is quite funny since most of the rich in this country did not work their way up, but they inherited it.

If we are to truly provide everyone with an equal oppurtunity to succeed, we must start to think past the narrow American view that everyone can be what they want to be if they just work hard. We must start to provide people with the opputurnity to work their way up, and give them a shot at bettering their socioeconomic status.

Raising the minimum wage was a small, but good start. Now lets work on improving education, and
improving more of our social institutions.