I don't get it? if you say the office traditionally is shifted- then you are suggesting some hidden message?

oh- not a conspiracy theory from the right?

man i'd love to hear all the rights conspiracy theorys on WMD and wire tapping, and Haliburton, and vote rigging, and and and ...

no! run! it's a conspiracy theory about an office!!!

run!

Trust me... the idiots you represent are the proponents of so many conspiracy theories that you have to have theories on conspiracy theories.

Rangel clearly, when not notifying the Vice President and President of the Senate of the actions, was doing it to be spiteful. He just happened to have custom on his side.

Does that make being a dick about it okay? Of course not. Nancy and Charlie got their positions on promises of not being exactly what they've shown since November to be.

But you've shown time and time again, you only believe in one thing... and that's you feel you are only right. Your blind hatred of anything you view as conservative is exactly what you blame people here of being...blindly loyal to Bush.

It's a shame you don't have decency enough to admit you're worse.

Rangel is one nasty one - and he thinks he is all important - the egos of pelosi, rangel, reid and the rest of them make me sick!

Wally- it has been 6 years witha rep pres and a rep supporting cast- look at the budget. Look at those numbers in the debt and deficit. Take a look.

Waht are you going to blame clinton? 6 years!!!!

count them 6.

What part of blind suppport are you implying I have?

The ONLY reason Nancy and Charlie got their NEW jobs is blind suport is waning. finally.

hello!??!?

Deleted - mindless insults

Jenn (Bill):
You need to learn to use spell check.

The Deficit and the Debt, the lion's share of it, happened with a Democratic Congress and then with a Republican Congress having to deal with entitlement spending created by Democrats and with Democratic obstruction to fix the problem.

I've agreed in numerous places and would say it to the last Congress that they weren't good stewards of our money, yet you can't expect to fight a conflict (where nearly EVERY elected Democrat supported at the time) without borrowing for that.

If you want to get rid of Social Security payment or Medicaid/Medicare payments, we could fight a war as we go.

But you're so blinded by your ideology you can't be brought to acknowledge reality or accept the facts/truth as they exist.

You blindly rewrite history (as Mr. Kerry is trying to do). You blindly call people all sorts of names that are clearly libel.

Nancy and Charlie got their jobs (by the way, the total of votes for Democrats over Republicans in districts that changes, less than 500,000 thanks to CNN for that number by the way).

So to say that only 500,000 people got to decide... that doesn't seem like your wave and your reality.

I'm beginning to wonder who/what you really are... Are you Gavin's girlfriend (Jenn?) and he borrows your typekey to make it seem like there are twice as many kooks that post here?

Or... more to the point, where did your rage and hate come from? Who taught you or demonstrated to you your stupid ramblings and clear hatred come from? Or perhaps maybe you're the hate filled person around here. It sure seems that you're never happy, and when it appears to be, it's only that you're gleefully trying to be glib about someone else. Come on!

I suggest you grow a pair, go to the library, do some learning, and come back with something besides the shit you've brought so far.

Hey Gavin:
Does your hatred have you so blind that you can't even bother to reread what you typed to realize that you just gave Cheney a job he doesn't have.

Man... I guess that raises another question... who do you have more blind hatred towards?

Is your hatred affecting your ability to think now?

Cheney, willy, is more powerful than Dumbya.

"The Deficit and the Debt, the lion's share of it, happened with a Democratic Congress and then with a Republican Congress having to deal with entitlement spending created by Democrats and with Democratic obstruction to fix the problem."

This is just lies. No substantiation given. It's all a lie. Even the Repubby's in the minority would laugh at that one. They know better. But willy is blind and in love with his party.

Enjoy the minority! Two years is just the beginning.

good on ya gavin!

How is it a lie. 40 years of democratic Congresses... That's called a Fact.

When Bill Clinton became president, the Debt was nearly 5,000,000,000,000.00. That's called a Fact.

Explain to me, how the debt got to where it goes, that since World War II, Democrats have controlled Congress for all but 12 years, and six of those years with Surpluses that ended due to an economic recession while Clinton was in office, and then 911.

I guess facts and reality have no place in Gavin's worldview.

And Gavin: You know nothing of my political leanings. I am very much a social moderate and a fiscal conservative. However, I know the history of The Democratic Party and spending... it was a Democratic Congress and a Democratic President that had the debt at one point 126% of the GDP.

The percentage now is under what it was when Clinton was in office as well. That's called economic progress. We can talk around numbers all we want, but rather, let's talk about the effect of those numbers... that's what's intellectually honest.

But then Gavin, I'm sure you've never been called intellectually honest... probably intellectual has never even been used with your name before.

And Gavin... did you create Conscriptor as an cheerleader for your stupid statements?

let us not forget, dick cheney once dispensed with senate decorum by telling pat leahy to f*ck-off (ON THE FLOOR). so let's drop the faux outrage please and turn our attention to the little news nugget today that good ole executive authority boy has decided he can go through americans' mail - via a signing statement!!
wow - where are all you libertarians now? the silence is deafening.

Explain to me how, someone making a comment on the floor of the OLD Senate Chamber (which was not an official meeting place) while the Senate wasn't in official session is not a matter of decorum.

Further, we were talking about Rangel... not Leahy. And further, Dick Cheney is the Vice President and President of the Senate. Charlie Rangel is only a member of Congress. The difference is substantial.

Further... what does a signing statement have anything to do with the topic at hand.

However, conscriptor proved he's not Gavin... he used real words and proper grammar; something Gavin doesn't even understand.

Out of curiosity, where are you shmucks coming from. So... out of curiosity, are you proving that your hatred for Bush is what brings you here or are you, as most of you profess, just upset about the war.

Maybe Markos is suggesting you come here.

Our goverment is not supposed to have a surplus. Every department,committee,office ect. has a budget.

Can you say "Over Taxed"

Its not patriotic to open your wallet to a politician, it stupid. The Democrats are masters at separating you from your hard earned money.

wawilliyo - i've been reading this site for a looong time (although admittedly under a different moniker bc mark - or matt- saw fit to censor me under circumstances that seemed wildly unfair, at least relative to the content of some of the other commenters). i come here because i like to understand the mentality that prevails on "the other side". it's always instructive to see an issue under different light. sure, the back and forth can get pretty heated (often juvenile) but every now it can lead to some healthy dialogue (i'll point to bane as an example). besides, what would life here be like if it was all shoulder patting and high-fives!

Cheney deserves to be moved out, but Rangel shouldn't have been an ass about it. Oh freakin well. He was just moved out, not impeached. Tell him to calm down.

oh please - stash the drama. The office was never Cheney's to be "evicted" from in the first place. The office is finally being reclaimed by the rightful occupant. Get over it. This is nothing compared to how you Repubs ran rough-shod over every time honored tradition in Congress when you were in power....

Like, ever hear of actually following the rules of closing a vote after 15 minutes... instead of keeping it open for hours? And now you're whining because Cheney is being asked to kindly remove his butt from where he had no right to put it in the first place? Gee, Dems are such SOB's!! The outrage!

in answer to the following:

Explain to me how, someone making a comment on the floor of the OLD Senate Chamber (which was not an official meeting place) while the Senate wasn't in official session is not a matter of decorum.

it was a matter of decorum (or lack thereof) - which was my point. i would imagine proper decorum (anywhere) requires that no public servant in the highest offices of the land drop the f-bomb when addressing another office-holder.

So... where's your condemnation of Rangel for calling Cheney a son of a bitch?

Where's your condemnation of Pelosi for calling Bush mentally deficient (only because he doesn't share her views)? Is she a medical doctor and diagnosed Bush?

Where's your condemnation of Reid for calling Bush a loser? Odd enough more people have voted for Bush than for Reid.

Or is it, as I suspect, your moral outrage and condemnation is only a one way street?

and Aaron:
Speaker Foley and many other Democratic Majority leaders kept the tellers open a lot longer than 15 minutes.

If you've ever watched a vote on CSPAN, you'd learn that nearly EVERY vote is kept open longer than 15 minutes.

I fully agree that it shouldn't have been done, but there is precedence for the action.

i was not outraged - merely pointing out the hypocrisy of your own. you would never see me demanding an apology for dick being... well, dick. i'm just reaching back in time to resurrect one of the myriad examples of the very same crime perpetrated by the individual here you wish to make a victim.

Did you even read my original post.

My only comment was that he should have been notified as the President of the Senate. He has equal access to parts of the building as the Senate and House both control the actual building.

Further, where do I say I was trying to make him a victim. I am 100% in favor of a return to civility. But Charlie Rangel continually saying the things he says on talk shows and calling the Vice President/President of the other House as he serves a son of a bitch doesn't do anything towards civility.

Tit for tat serves NO PURPOSE whatever. You know this, and I know this. But it seems, sadly, both parties only operate under revenge against the other.

For instance, if Pelosi was serious about bipartisanship, she'd overlook that Republicans blocked the minority bill of rights and allow it to pass. After all, eventually Democrats will be in the minority at some point again. (I admit I haven't read the bill so I don't know what it actually said so I don't say I'm in favor of it)

If you're willing to not play at dramatics and one-upmanship, then I'll gladly treat people with civility. So far, you've shown intelligence and an ability to communicate effectively. That's better than some (on both sides).

Tom: "Its not patriotic to open your wallet to a politician, it stupid. The Democrats are masters at separating you from your hard earned money."

are u 4 real? have any of you guys looked at the RED we are in?

Wally- again you blaim the dems...how is it even conceivable that after 6 years of a rep king and a rep congress and senate that it's te dems fault? I suppose you disagree with McCain that just got done talking about how the reps were not spending wisely?

hahaaa-- you can't even agree with your own leaders you are so blind! LOLOLOL hahaa

-- yeah annd speaking of impeachment...

talk about bitter and hatred-- i don't hear any reps complaing about impeaching clintopn. but gee- i guess hte dems are evil doers. Yeah we are after blood and all.

i suppose pay back is a beaotch. Can we impeach Bush and call it fair play?

yeha- go ahead cry about that. but it would be fair.

well, never mind, i don't think the dems are that blood thirsty after all. I mean what did clinto do get his $$$$ sucked? Not like he is illegally monitoring Americans and started an illegal war or anything- and lied about it to justify it.

naa- the dems won't impeach him like the blood mongors that impeached clinton.

but they should.

now who is blood thirsty?????

Jenn:
You're stupid. Bill Clinton committed perjury. That's what he was impeached for. Where he lied, and then tried to cover up his behavior (which was the blowjobs) was dealing specifically with a civil suit filed by a woman who accused him of sexual harassment when he was governor.

Explain to me where Republicans were bloodthirsty to get Clinton.

Explain to me how this war is illegal? Where does it say the United States (or any other sovereign nation) is beholden to a poll of the international community?

I've said again and again that the budget problems of recent years were based on Republican poor spending bills (Democrat earmarks as well) and the War (which was approved by well over 80% of the Democrats in Congress.

And there are sooooo many Democrats crying for impeachment it makes what was happening with Clinton look like a Republicans for Clinton meeting.

Seriously, the only thing that Democrats love more than than their hatred for Bush is power. Nancy Pelosi has said as much.

You on the otherhand, for some reason unknown to me and others, cannot mentally grasp reality.

"Either way, Rangel is a 'son of a bitch.'"

The residents of Mississippi agree.

Let's hope he gets to enjoy the office for no more than 2 years.

Willywillywilly...

I always use proper grammar. You must be confusing me with your redneck cohorts like Jeremiah and bearman USMC who barely got through the third grade.

At any rate, sorry you are so misinformed about the economy. Check out Clinton's policies, though. His balanced budget proposal was voted against by every single Republican. Yet it passed, and America thrived under his administration. Your beloved Dumbya has outspent everyone before him combined. Facts are facts, litte fella.

There are about five Democratic backbenchers plus Conyers talking about impeachment. In 1998, the number of Republicans was initially around 60 and quickly grew to include almost all of them.

I for one don't think impeachment should be a priority unless there is a real smoking gun found on the Downing Street-related stuff or the illegal wiretaps. Even then, though, it's good if Bush is in office on election day 2008. That way, the country has a clear choice between his party and the good guys. The Dems will pick up at least 3 Senate seats, likely 5-10 House seats as well as the Presidency that day.

When that Democratic President takes office, there is not a single one of you moonbat kooks that will respect him(or her) from day one. If we are attacked, like on 9/11, you will call for assassinations and impeachment.

America is broken because of the partisans like you. And me.

Gavin- "FACTs" is a 4 letter word to him and the others.

They hide behind some motto of "blame Clinton" rather than going into a realization that their boy W is ruinning America.

Whats really tragic is once ruined who will be left to blame?

I mean when i sit and really envision a 3rd world post hollocaustal America and see nothing but wind blown sand and a pile of ruble here and there...i wonder- why didn't they stop the destruction of America?

why didn't they look at reality insetead of buying W's story book lies.

I mean the future under W is pretty bleak, but they act like it is nothing to run from. pretty intnese and scary to me.

And unfortunatley i again have to say let the reps have 4 more years after W. Sooner or later reality might sink in. But until it does they don't get it. So i continue to adverise that no Dems run in 2008. DO NOT PICK UP W's tab. you'll fail miserablly at trying to fix this mess. It's a set up for failure.

Let the reps swim in their own mess. you know- you make the bed you lie in. Matter of fact i am going to write Obama and Hillory. it's honestly too big of mess to fail on and then take the blame.

Meachem
You are either a comedian or a hopeless partisan.
The Clinton Administration did not; at any time submit a balanced budget to Congress. All of the Budgets submitted by Clinton were deficit budgets; that, sir is matter of record.
I would further challenge you to give one single policy, one proposal, or one idea from the Clinton White House that aided the balanced budget, assisted in the expansion of the economy, or added any value to the wealth of this nation. Again, the Clinton Administration’s record on the economy is clear, Keynesian spending programs.

I mean the future under W is pretty bleak, but they act like it is nothing to run from. pretty intnese and scary to me.

What is so bleak?

The ecomomy is in good shape, there is new business popping up everywhere, unemployment is the lowest it has been in a long time. The stock market is at setting new records.

What is so bleak?

Ummm... explain to me if Every Republican who were in the majority voted against a balanced budget how did it pass?

There weren't Republicans voting present.

Is this the revisionist history you're working on to explain why the government shut down?

Or are you going to disregard the Hillary Healthcare Plan that would never have allowed for a balanced budget... and that was killed by Bill's own Democrats as well as the Republicans.

Interesting how the facts can get in the way of your reality.

Bill... I don't believe you use proper grammar, spelling or punctuation.

How does the Junior Senator from New York spell her name?

How does EVERYONE on Earth spell the extermination of the Jews by the Nazis? Here's a hint, it's not the way you spell it.

However, I'll give you a pass on that. We're all quick with wanting to express our passions.

However, I disagree with you in your characterization of Republicans as evil Sith Lords trying to rape and pillage America.

Just like you'll probably disagree with me when I say I think the Democrats have a fundamental desire to keep the poor and disadvantaged down in order to keep their base voting for them.

By the way... I'm sure Charlie Rangel doesn't know Cheney's mother.

Just as I don't know Charlie Rangel's mother.

I'm sure they are both delightful.

However, Rangel is a pompous ass who says things he knows are wrong... he's nothing more than a gravelly voiced demagogue.

Either way, Rangel is a "son of a bitch."

And a bastard, a pompous bastard who says whatever he pleases and gets a pass from the DBM.

It would be a pleasure to piss on this bastard's grave someday...

Susan Esterich is Charlie Rangel in drag...

Charlie R has been on the Federal Tit for his entire life.
And if any of you libs/Dims think he is not on the take, I have swampland in AZ to sell you.
He'll never be investigated because he's not white!!!! there..... is that PC enuf' for you?
He knows he can go on any show lib or conservative and say any damn thing he wants to..no matter how outrageous, because no one will challenge him ....trust me...someday..the mills of the Gods grind slowly..but oh so fine!!!!
as far as Cheney calling Leaky Leahy to FO!!! If I were ever so fortunate to be in his presence..my greeting would be...How does it feel to be a traitor, you POS!!!!!