How about culturally sensitizing your religion into the 21st century? Im sure allah will understand if you arent able to pray at the correct time because youre strapped into a jumbo-jet on final approach.

If muslims keep pulling these stunts that make them the center of attention then they better start understanding that they will be the CENTER OF ATTENTION. Duh!

No one ever cares about MY sensitivity, why is it that when I travel for a religious holiday such as...oh I dont know...CHRISTMAS, I have to gather with the other cattle in the airport and be treated like crap by most of the facility staff?

Im not sure I could claim religious intolerance were I to be cavity-searched for refusing to remove my ballcap or shoes. What lawsuit could I initiate if I were not allowed to suddenly drop to the floor in front of the boarding ramp and scream "Oh mighty ZEUS-god of gods!"?

Tolerance is a two-way street; Ill be tolerant of you deciding to loudly praise allah in the airport, you be tolerant of me deciding you need to be more thorougly screened . In essence, we need to be tolerant of each others intolerance. Everybody wins.

Well stated, LtB--tolerance of intolerance is to be tolerated.

Just listened to a skit on Hannity's show--the guest host had some professor from some war college, posing as a senior Al-Qaida strategist. This guy was great, had the callers all worked up, while describing the threat we face.

Too bad our loony lefties don't get it...

Posted by: Obama-sama has Big Ears

Oooooh, Major Smegma's not gonna like that, keefer. ROTFLMAO!!!

How does asking security officers to understand what's going on when many more muslims take to air in any way impair security. If anything, understanding the hajj and culturally specific things Muslims do will help officials avoid false alarms, confusion, and unnecessary delays thus making security better. The hajj is a large travel event, and officials should prepare for it just as they prepare for the spikes in travel around Christmas and Labor Day. Since when is knowledge so knowledge so dangerous.

As for the imams in Minneapolis, all they were doing was praying, as their beliefs require. How does peacfully practicing your religion equal acting like a terrorist? I've seen many Christians pray before flights, sometimes quite loudly, and no one ever accused them of acting like terrorists.

It's ironic that right-wingers who scream "RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION!" every time someone says "happy holidays" are so eager to engage it in.

Mark,

"...you and your brethren will need to do something about those who use Islam as an excuse for perpetrating mass murder. Be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem."

Mark, what do you expect them to do? I'd like to know because the answer could fix you too.

Oooooh, Major Smegma's not gonna like that, keefer. ROTFLMAO!!!

I just hope he doesn't pull rank on me, Spook. Can he still do that? lol

Mark, what do you expect them to do? I'd like to know because the answer could fix you too.

Could you clarify this, USA, or are you just another stupid lib who compares good Christians to Islamofascist thugs?

It's ironic that right-wingers who scream "RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION!" every time someone says "happy holidays" are so eager to engage it in.

Second, your trite, overtired analogies leave much to be desired.

The next time Pope Benedict issues a nuclear fatwah, then we'll talk.

Until then, give it a rest, will you?

So, if I were on board a Saudi Airlines jet, getting ready to depart Riyadh Airport, and pulled out a Bible and started praying to my God, would the Muslims aboard be tolerant? I mean, have they gone through this sensitivity training?

Spook, this "sensitivity training" reminds me a lot of my military years in the 1990's. The military was going through this total quality management phase, trying to run the military like a PC corporation. Everyone hated it, and I'm not sure how it panned out. It was still going on when I retired in '96.

I wasn't aware Islam had a pope, or anyone even close.

What is the training and how is it supposed to hurt airline security? Why would having culturally clueless screeners be better? Is there any substance behind this post, or are you just bitching because you don't like the word "sensitivity"?

Obama-sama has Big Ears has Small Genitals,

That is a great analogy. Let's just base our airport security standards on those at the Riyadh International Airport. After all, they're a multi-ethnic democracy just like us, right?

"The next time Pope Benedict issues a nuclear fatwah, then we'll talk.

Until then, give it a rest, will you?"

Silly Justin. The secular-progressives (SPs) issued a nuclear fatwah on Christmas years ago, which justified the glorious resistance against the War on Christmas. Also, the only religion that must be treated carefully and with respect in America are the ones that recognize Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, because the Founding Fathers were all Christ-lovers and abortion-haters. Don't read the Constitution if you are confused about this point.

Gar Wood

Gar "Woodie," aka fish penis:

Why do you sign your posts? Are you trying to hit on Wade? Are you Wade? Your posts are just as stupid as Wade's are, so you may be twins. Or clones. Or morons...

The military was going through this total quality management phase, trying to run the military like a PC corporation. Everyone hated it, and I'm not sure how it panned out. It was still going on when I retired in '96.

IIRC, it was just starting in '89 when I retired, and one of the reasons I decided against going for 30. It just wasn't any fun anymore.

Love your new screen name, btw. It just says it all.

We are creating enemies faster than we can kill them

It's ironic that right-wingers who scream "RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION!" every time someone says "happy holidays" are so eager to engage it in.

Posted by: Justin K. at December 28, 2006 05:31 PM

Its pure irony that muslems have the stones to claim religious persecution in the first place.

Gar, I don't know who your Founding Fathers were, but mine:

-wrote the Jefferson Bible, removing any sort of supernaturality to Jesus' existence (ie. denied his divinity but praised his philosophy),

-quipped they "forgot" to include any mention of God in the Constitution,

-held Jesus and Socrates to be equal moral examples,

-saw the dangers of linking religious ideas with public life,

...and I could go on. No, I don't deny that many Founding Fathers went to church, although they were Unitarian churches. The fact is that their definition of Christianity is very different from that of contemporary America. Would you still call them "christian" knowing they deny Jesus being the son of God?

The truth is, Jefferson, Madison, Washington, Adams, etc, all were a lot smarter than most people want to think. They knew that if they proclaimed the US to be based on one religious dogmatic system that the new nation would be no better than those of the Old World. They left room for Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Agnostics, and Athiests alike because, as I said, they were Enlightened thinkers above the petty baggage traditional religious beliefs entail.

And please, point me to where this nuclear fatwah was declared on Christmas. Some on the right want to play victim here, but the simple fact is that a vast majority of liberals/lefties celebrate Christmas just like everyone else, and there are as many on the left who object to the modern-day expression of Christmas as do on the right. Defend Christmas all you want...no one is trying to stop you.

Excuse me "Just praying?" Have you read the whole story? They were more than "just praying." It's one thing to pray before a flight, it's another to act suspiciously.

Arriving as a group, bording as a group, and then spreading themselves throughout the plane. One in the first row of the plane, one at the very tail of the plane, and others strategically placed throughout the plane with no reguard to seating assignments. Asking for set-belt extenders and not using them but leaving them on the floor next to them. I'm sorry but if you act suspiciously I'm going to treat you like a suspect no matter what you look like.

Heck, I went into Best Buy and wander about the store a bit more than normal. I had come in to pick up some expensive items so I was carrying around a good $300 worth of stuff. But because I was wandering around and avoiding the clerks (basically I just said Hi and kept looking around) I was considered suspicious. They followed me to make sure I wasn't going to steal anything. Did I feel put off? A bit, but I understood where they were coming from and I respected their decision to take store security seriously. The Muslims should do the same.

I don't care WHAT color your skin is, what relgion you practice, or what language you speak, you act like a suspect, I'm going to treat you like one and keep a wary eye on you. It's that simple.

Love your new screen name, btw. It just says it all.

I had to change it, Spook; Major Pecker-crud was just a bit sensitive for a battle-hardened admin officer. Maybe he was in charge of TQ in his unit.

Yeah, Spook, my first 12 years (1976-88) were much more fun than my last 8, what with all that TQ, PC, and once Slicky Blue Dress got in, DADT...

Spook & keefer

When you say you were no longer having fun in the military, what do you mean exactly?

As for the imams in Minneapolis, all they were doing was praying, as their beliefs require.

Well guess what, if I were a Regla de Ocha believer and I decided to slaughter a live chicken at the airline gate, you might be a bit apprehensive too. There is such a thing as decorum; if your religion demands that you get a seatbelt extender and then you stash the device under your seat, you may get scrutinized. You DO know how those extenders can be used in hijacks, dont you?

How does peacfully practicing your religion equal acting like a terrorist? I've seen many Christians pray before flights, sometimes quite loudly, and no one ever accused them of acting like terrorists.

Sure, they might have said "Amen" extra loud, but they certainly didnt light a few candles and erect a Madonna icon in the waiting area. If your religion is so strict that allah will smite you for not praying, how would you reconcile the fact that your plane may get delayed and stuck in a holding pattern during prayer time? Dont like the airline rules, feel free to walk to Arizona.

It's ironic that right-wingers who scream "RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION!" every time someone says "happy holidays" are so eager to engage it in.

Its ironic that all those who are ready to castigate Christians for their beliefs dont volunteer to work over the paid CHRISTMAS holiday provided by their employers.

I left the service (USN) just as enlisted women were starting to get deployed to the regular surface fleet. There were classes that included how not to swear, polite conservation with females and understanding the monthly...ahem...biological occurrences that women experienced.

Not swearing? In the NAVY? Were they insane? You might as well try to explain to birds that they should no longer fly. Swearing was an art-form!

CO,

OUR military is in place to kill people and blow shi* up, unlike the Canadian hay rakers that act like a Monte Python movie whenever called to arms. Or is that the French?

Fortunately for you to have the Mighty US Military just south of you to call on when your toilets stop working...just kidding CO. Your military does a pretty good job, what lttle there is of it.

At last I heard, they couldn't decide whether the Canadian military code should be French Canadian or Canadian French so they decided to ask the French what they thought, but they couldn't get an answer because it was too confrontational, so the French ran an hid, rememeber "run away...run away. Oh well. What was the question?

When you say you were no longer having fun in the military, what do you mean exactly?

Well, it's no fun being politically correct, and TQ, DADT, and the overall feminization of the military really took the fun out of being in. When I enlisted in 1976, there were no holds barred in regards to language, partying, and everyone either conformed to the military lifestyle or they didn't last. Even the women who were enlisting at this time understood this, and they made no fuss over anything that today would be considered insensitive.

Once the Cold War ended, and the military entered the age of TQ and PC, things went downhill. Then Slicky Blue Dress came along, and it got even worse. DADT was Clinton's legacy, and I don't know if we've recovered yet. That's where your General Clark's come from, the Clinton era. Now, you libbies might think ol' Wes is a fine General, but just ask Monica--I'll bet Wes had to push her aside so's he could "earn" that fourth star.

Gotta go now; I'm tired of 'splainin' things to the enemy...

Man, you libbies are out in force tonight; did you get bored with your Christmas presents already? Those Barbie dolls are passe, huh?

I noticed they plan on hangin da Butcher O Baghdad before the new year, so I sent my resume to the Iraqi Justice Dept. to see if I could be the hangman and below is their reponse. Damn it all!!

Mr. Navydad

Due to the overwhelming amount of qualified applicants for the position of "Hangman" here in Baghdad, we sincerely regret that we cannot utilize your services for this monumental event at this time, however, if for some reason we find that we may need additional Hangmen for future hangings, which we will, you will be the placed at the top of the list.

PS. For future referrence, how many coils are there in a Hangman's knot? Just asking.

Sincerely

Jalal Talabani
President of Iraq

Good lord, I've never seen such tortured logic. First, the desperate reaching to claim the imams in Minneapolis were acting suspicious. Of course they boarded together, they were travelling together. They sat at different places in the plane? Horror? You've never travelled with a group of people and been assigned to different parts of the plane? Seatbelt extenders? Gasp! Good lord people! These men did nothing wrong. If people got freaked out, that's on them, not the imams.

as for the hypothetical Saudi airlines repression of Christians, I doubt anything like that actually occurs (Saudi airlines carries lots of Western oil workers, many of whom are no doubt Christians, and such behavior would be bad for business) but lets be charitable and look at the underlying point. True, the Saudi government is a corrupt, ugly, and intolerant regime that is no friend to religious freedom. So does that mean we should sink to its level? Liberty is not a game of tit-for-tat. Just because other countries pursue racist or religiously intolerant polices does not mean we should. Understanding the people who move through our airports can only make us safer.

As for the "pope never endorsed suicide bombing" thread, what does that have to do with the vast majority of muslims who don't support terror? Besides, reach back far enough and you can find any faith being used to justifiy atrocities (crusades, inquisitions, pogroms, and more can be laid at the feet of the Catholic Church). Should all Christians be viewed with suspicion because of Eric Rudolph's bombings?

It's this kind of ignorance, and the limping together of one billion people into one terrorist mass that got us into the quagmire in Iraq and is creating the clash of civilizations Al Qaeda hoped for. Nice going schmucks.

OUR military is in place to kill people and blow shi* up, unlike the Canadian hay rakers that act like a Monte Python movie whenever called to arms.

navydad

You're right, our military is best known as 'Peace Keepers'. Although, when a legitimate call to arms comes through, Canadians have proven their courage, time & time again. The people of Holland, as one example, hold the Canadian forces in high esteem for their remarkable bravery shown there during the second world war.

So while you might brag about your military 'killing people and blowing shi* up, I am proud of the men & women serving in the Canadian forces and the wonderful job they do for us.

Why not ask them what they're there for CO.

A dinner at Morton's says they say the same thing.

Leo, great post!

"Greasing the skids for a future terrorist attack? You can literally bet your life on it."-Leo

Damn right. These "culturally sensitive" procedures are stupid and dangerous. Look what happened in Britain when they put these stupid measures in place...

From the Timesonline.co.uk- Police Killer Suspect Fled Britain in a Veil

A man who was being hunted for the murder of a policewoman is understood to have escaped from Britain by disguising himself as a veiled Muslim woman.

Mustaf Jama, a prime suspect in the fatal shooting of PC Sharon Beshenivsky, assumed his sister’s identity — wearing the niqab and using her passport — to evade supposedly stringent checks at Heathrow, according to police sources.

The use of the niqab, which leaves only a narrow slit for the eyes, highlights flaws in British airport security. At the time, Jama was Britain’s most wanted man, while Heathrow was on a heightened state of alert after the 7/7 terrorist atrocities in London five months previously.

Obama-sama has Big Ears of Corn and Lose the Bongos.
Sorry to hear you guys wussed out because you were afraid of being in the military with a bunch of girls. I have two daughters who joined the army. Both made sergeant, both served in Kosavo and Irag and both can out cuss half the guys I know. They also are crack shots, which drove my former son-in-law nuts. Either of them could take me or just about anyone else here is a fight.

OUR military is in place to kill people and blow shi* up, unlike the Canadian hay rakers that act like a Monte Python movie whenever called to arms.

That's no joke, my man. The Canadians don't even train with guns. They're all "I believe we can resolve our differences without resorting to anything so untoward as violence." Meanwhile the 82nd Airborne is laying waste like a White Zombie (or better yet, Gwar) concert with bending guitar notes and real blood and explosions. That's its purpose. Any military man will tell you that.

Casper, I re-read my earlier post and failed to find any reference to my leaving the service because I didnt want to serve with "a bunch of girls". What I did say was that I left the service as women were being deployed with the combat fleet, not because they were being deployed. The timing of those two events were purely coincidental.

Im glad to see your daughters can hold their own and your description of them proves my point; classes to teach military men how to treat military women as delicate flowers are useless, and I would assume, degrading to the women themselves.

"Sorry to hear you guys wussed out because you were afraid of being in the military with a bunch of girls."

Casper,

You are forgetting that Obama and Bongos are Republicans. Whatever excuses they may have for not serving are acceptable; if Dan Rather chimes in, all the better. If they had served, then they would be aware of the insanities of war, which would make them more likely to be Democrats and therefore subject to careful scrutiny regarding the legitimacy of their medals and lost limbs. Why would anyone want that?

Gar Wood

"How does peacfully practicing your religion equal acting like a terrorist?"-Justin K.

There's a loaded question. Islam is terrorism. Killing infidels is a basic tenet of Islam.

Anyway, here's more knowledge about the pagan rites and rituals that these "peaceful Muslims" will be practicing during the Hajj in Mecca, Saudia Arabia (one of the most brutal, backwards and repressive nations on the planet).

710,000 Animals to be 'Sacrificed' at Hajj

Jeddah, Dec 26 (NNN-APP) The Islamic Development Bank (IDB) has made arrangements for sacrificing of about 710,000 animals including 700,000 sheep and 10,000 cows and camels, so as the pilgrims could perform the main rite of sacrificing animals during Haj with ease. [..]

The IDB president pointed out that the project has enabled pilgrims to perform this rite with great ease and thus focus on other Haj rites.

“It reassures the faithful that the animals meet all Shariah and health requirements,” he further indicated.

Then these "peaceful Muslims" will worship their pagan rock god by kissing the Black Stone, walking around the Ka'aba, running between the hills, etc. For more information see: THE PAGAN SOURCES OF ISLAM

Oi oi Gar I suggest you learn to read again. Those guys DID serve and they served for a long time. So I suggest you apologise quickly before they jump all over you for that idiotic remark.

Click link-TheReligionOfPeace.com-for PIX of a young Christian girl with a terrible scar on her face and neck!

Caption reads: "Keith Ellison told a crowd of Muslims in Dearborn that they can 'teach America' about what 'tolerance' and 'equal protection' mean under Islam. We're guessing that Americans might learn more from this young Christian survivor of an attempted beheading in Indonesia."

You are forgetting that Obama and Bongos are Republicans. Whatever excuses they may have for not serving are acceptable;

Too late for the apology. Gar, are you simply scanning the posts and then hastily scribing your witty remarks, or do you have a reading comprehension problem?

If they had served, then they would be aware of the insanities of war, which would make them more likely to be Democrats

Let me help you keep that line of thought going...and if they were democrats, they would be busy denigrating the troops and equating them to nazis.

and therefore subject to careful scrutiny regarding the legitimacy of their medals and lost limbs. Why would anyone want that?

And if they were republicans they would be subject to careful scrutiny of the manner of their service or be castigated for their lack of service in a vacuum that doesnt include the history of previous office-holders.

both served in Kosavo and Irag and both can out cuss half the guys I know.

Good for them, Casper the Friendly Lib. Did either of them serve in Kosovo? I've never heard of "Kosavo;" is it part of Disney World?

Just kidding about that last remark, but Casper, you and Gar should pay more attention. As pointed out by Gozer, I served for twenty years, and the majority of the women I served with were just like your daughters. I wasn't criticizing the military women; I was criticizing the evolution of the military.

Pay more attention next time, and stop going by what Gar "Woodie" says. He's only 12, and he's named himself after a fish penis...

Wow... what a stimulating thread...

Anyways, while I agree that those Imams or whatever that disrupted a flight a while back were sketchy as hell (sitting in unassigned seats to coincide with the 911 hijackers and then freaking everyone out... come on!), I don't agree that telling TSA agents "this is why a bunch of Muslims in traditional garb are flying to Saudi Arabia" is necessarily a bad thing.

Here's an extreme case:

Perhaps an uninformed TSA agent sees a bunch of "sketchy" muslim people flying to Saudi Arabia and thinks that they *must* be going to a terrorist training camp... He alerts the Feds, the pilgrims get arrested, and promptly sue the TSA and the agency for civil rights violations. The media has a hayday, Democrats grandstand, and Terrorists find a new way to tie the WOT to a war on Islam, thusly gaining a powerful new recruiting tool. Not to mention how much of a drain detaining, questioning, and defending against the lawsuits of innocent people will be on tax money.

Now, if you tell the TSA agents about this, they can focus on people who actually look suspicious (such as the aforementioned people) and deal with them accordingly. No lawsuits, no Grandstanding, no new recruiting tool, no waste of taxpayer dollars.

Freedom-

The reason that those animals will be sacrificed is that they will be eaten at the end of the Hajj... that's how the tradition goes... likewise, I could bring out a few pagan sources of Christianity if you would like...

GA
islam is a CULT,
Christianity isnt.
mohammad was a cutthroat, murdering, child rapist.
Jesus was true man of and from GOD.

Islamists blow up cars, trucks, children,and innocent people at......work.....weddings.....home.....on buses....at nightclubs......in apartments....anywhere they can create the most carnage.

Christians are.....missionaries....set up the Salvation army......Goodwill....Mother Thresa....Christian childrens fund....Catholic charities.......Catholic hospitals....Catholic & Christian universities...... NO BOMBS here !!!

islam is a HORROR show of death, beheadings, MURDER, riots and mayhem.

Talk LOUDLY anti American comments, scream allah akbar, and follow the 911 seating arrangements on a US airliner may get you injured severely not just thrown off the plane.

"LETS ROLL" NEVER and I mean NEVER again!

I couldn't have said it any better, ExMarine!

As usual Georgia Frawg, you've missed the mark. Read the link above, "THE PAGAN SOURCES OF ISLAM". The Hajj itself, as well as the rites and rituals practiced at the Ka'aba are of pagan origin. Islam's 5 times a day of prayer came from the star-worshipping Sabeans. Anyway, Islam is a barbaric, pagan cult.

"...likewise, I could bring out a few pagan sources of Christianity if you would like..."-Georgia Frawg

No you can't. That's blasphemy. There's nothing pagan about Christianity. Christianity is from God, only.

> islam is a CULT,
Christianity isnt.

ROFLMAO!!!!