A majority of the Palestinian people have just demonstrated that they support Hamas' terrorism and suicide bombings. A majority of the Palestinian people have chosen to elect those Hamas terrorists to govern them. A majority of the Palestinian people have demonstrated that they want the destruction of the state of Israel and the genocide of Jews. It's a freaking disaster!
The US and the EU need to cut off all financial aid to the Palestinians, immediately.
Israel and the rest of the world know that Hamas wants to destroy Israel and now that Hamas is officially in power, their terrorism towards Israel has just been elevated to open warfare against Israel. Israel should prepare for war.
"Some are saying that this vote for Hamas is a blow to President Bush's program of democracy in the middle east."-Mark
It's not. This vote simply exposes the harsh reality of what the Palestinian people really want-namely the leadership of Islamic terrorists who want the annhilation of the state of Israel and the genocide of the Jewish people.
Hitler was democratically elected. That didn't reflect badly on democracy. It reflected badly on the people who elected Hitler. In the Palestinian territory, the Palestinians elected Hamas terrorists. This democratic vote reflects badly on the Palestinian people, not on the democratic process.
On the larger issue of democracy in the Middle East, this Palestinian election shows that democracy is not enough if it is not accompanied by freedom.
Posted by: Freedom1 at January 27, 2006 03:09 AM
Freedom,
I'm not ready to resign myself to war with the Palestinians. This vote might have been less support for Hamas as opposition to the relentless corruption of Fatah. Time will tell, and I'm glad that President Bush isn't allowing himself to be stampeded into action before we see what the Hamas government does.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at January 27, 2006 03:49 AM
"I'm not ready to resign myself to war with the Palestinians."-Mark
I don't want war, either. But, it's coming nonetheless. Hamas are terrorists, Islamic terrorists who hate Israeli Jews more than any other groups of infidels on the planet.
"This vote might have been less support for Hamas as opposition to the relentless corruption of Fatah."
Sure. Fatah (Arabic for "conquest") is a corrupt terrorist organization, also. This vote was definitely a choice between two evils. The majority of the Palestinians chose the greater evil, Hamas.
"Time will tell, and I'm glad that President Bush isn't allowing himself to be stampeded into action before we see what the Hamas government does."
Of course we should wait and see what Hamas does. If and when Hamas attacks, then Israel should respond. However, Israel should prepare for the inevitable war to come while they wait.
I think President Bush is doing a pretty good job of dealing with Hamas' victory. He said that the US will not negotiate with Hamas terrorists until these terrorists renounce terrorism. That's consistent with US policy. I hope President Bush will end funding for the Palestinians now that terrorists run the Palestinian government. Hamas would be forced to make a choice: 1) keep terrorism and give up a billion dollars in aid annually from Western nations, or 2) renounce terrorism and continue receiving a billion dollars in aid annually. Of course, there's always the third option 3) keep terrorism and Iran and other Islamic nations continue to fund the Palestinians (and their terrorism against Israel).
Posted by: Freedom1 at January 27, 2006 04:15 AM
Qur’an 4:55 “Sufficient for the Jew is the Flaming Fire!”
It's imperative that people understand the virulent hatred for Jews that the Islamic terrorist group Hamas harbors. The above quote from the Qur'an is just one of many, many, many such quotes. I urge people to scan this partial list of Islamic quotes about Jews. The level of hatred in Islam for Jews is simply unbelievable! Now Islamic terrorists run the Palestinian government. Tragic development.
Posted by: Freedom1 at January 27, 2006 04:52 AM
Why do I have a problem with the fact that Jimmy Carter, our former president, oversaw the election. I remember him overthrowing the Shah of Iran...and now hime overseeing the election of Hamas in Palestine. Remember this is a man who likes Castro and Chavez. Could Jimmy Carter have helped this election with Hamas. Read the last paragraph. This is something to look into!
Carter: Vote was completely honest, fair
Friday, January 27, 2006
Associated Press
JERUSALEM -- Former President Jimmy Carter said yesterday the Palestinian elections were "completely honest, completely fair, completely safe and without violence."
Carter, who led an international observer team from his own Carter Center and the Washington-based National Democratic Institute, also said he hoped that the Hamas Islamic group would act responsibly now that it appears to have been elected to power in Palestinian elections.
"My hope is that as Hamas assumes a major role in the next government, whatever that might be, it will take a position on international standards of responsibility," he told a news conference in Jerusalem. Carter helped broker a lasting peace between Egypt and Israel at Camp David in 1978.
He noted, however, that Israeli restrictions in east Jerusalem meant that many of the city's estimated 120,000 eligible voters were unable to cast ballots and those who did were not able to do so in privacy. Instead, they were forced to mark ballot papers in view of staff at the Israeli post offices where limited polling was held.
Posted by: semby at January 27, 2006 06:22 AM
recall that after decades of terrorism, the IRA eventually decommissioned it's armed wing & became politically active in Shin Fein.
Posted by: OhioOrrin at January 27, 2006 06:32 AM
Old Jimmy Carter did the expected when he put his personal blessing on this election.
Funny how he can find time to prop up elections of left-wing dictators and thugs, but couldn't bring himself to attend at least one Iraqi election.)
So now, his cherished Palestinians have chosen between Fatah and Hamas. That's like saying Chicago made a choice between Bugs Moran and Al Capone.
Posted by: Hermie at January 27, 2006 08:28 AM
well if Hamas, carries through with it's war on Israel, that will give Israel a reason to clean house in Palestine. Hopefully, it won't come to that.
Posted by: chip atchison at January 27, 2006 09:26 AM
So far, the War President has overseen the first elected Islamic terrorist government and the first Iranian-dominated government outside Iran. What was that, again, about democracy always leading to peace?
The problem is, democracy requires more than just elections. It also needs a rule of law, stable institutions, basic economic security for the population, and checks and balances that forestall a tyranny of the majority.
A good example to learn from is Algeria. During the early 1990s, Algeria was a genuine democracy that was being increasingly infiltrated by an Islamic fundamentalist party with backing from Iran. Leading up to a general election, it became clear that the fundamentalist party would win and take over. If that happened, the party promised it would end democracy and cancel all future elections.
In response, the Algerian government cancelled the election and declared martial law. Under martial law, the government nurtured the rule of law, economic security and checks and balances. Five years later, free elections were held again and real democrats (small d) were elected. What a dilemma. Democracy would led to dictatorship, while dictatorship led to democracy.
Posted by: longz at January 27, 2006 09:51 AM
"A majority of the Palestinian people have just demonstrated that they support Hamas' terrorism and suicide bombings. "
Or they support its lack of corruption and current truce with israel.
Posted by: shortz at January 27, 2006 10:36 AM
Freedom1 is an armageddonist. Now we know why Sharon had a stroke and went into coma, his aides told him that Hamas was going to win the January elections. Every policy that Sharon followed for 40 years was flushed by the Hamas victory. And by extention all of bush's policies are a pile of steaming $hit as well. Peace
Posted by: steve at January 27, 2006 10:40 AM
I see the Palestinians as a disenfranchised people who are immorally and desperately reacting to their plight by empowering terrorists. Palestinian resistance has only sped up the loss of resources and peace for themselves as it only gave Israel and the rest of the world a reason to wage war against them. Only a democracy with checks and balances on power and a reduction of violence can save a people in these dangerous environments. What does Hamas know about any of these things? I see trouble ahead.
Posted by: Jim at January 27, 2006 11:57 AM
Jim,
Possibly, but Steve also shows how the terrorists have their enablers in the west...there's always people willing to blame the United States and excuse thuggery.
We shall have to see - do the Hamas leaders want to be the government of Palestine, or do they want to wind up back in exile?
Posted by: Mark Noonan at January 27, 2006 12:29 PM
I do not excuse "thuggery" on any side. I deplore all violence. You can't wash out blood, with blood. Peace
Posted by: steve at January 27, 2006 01:53 PM
I agree with Jim.
The problem is, when you have an unjust society (in this case the Palestinian people with absolutely no rights), they will react accordingly. Given the tools of democracy, they will make the choices they think will best serve them.
This is the problem with democracy in the Middle East. If there is no social justice, no freedom, then democracy will only serve to provide a platform for those who exploit misery for their own purposes.
What can Bush say? If he condemns Hamas too loudly, he will be a hypocrite since he has made such a big deal of democracy in the Middle East. On the other hand, he is most likely aware that the Israeli hard liners will be shouting "I told you so".
Mark:
Many Hamas members (those who haven't been assasinated) and leaders are currently imprisoned. Due to the fragmented patchwork of the territories, the security wall, the checkpoints, etc. they might as well be in "exile".
Posted by: cookiecorp at January 27, 2006 06:23 PM
(via Littlegreenfootballs.com) from The Hamas Charter:
"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious...The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah’s victory is realised...[...]
The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him...’
***********************************
So where does that last part of Hamas' charter come from? It comes from the "holy" books of Islam-
Hadiths, Sahih Bukhari:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight wi the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "
USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts
Sahih Bukhari is a collection of sayings and deeds of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), also known as the sunnah.[...] Bukhari's collection is recognized by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world to be one of the most authentic collections of the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh).
Posted by: Freedom1 at January 27, 2006 07:40 PM
"Colombia Busts Ring Linked to al-Qaida"
Jan 26 11:22 PM US/Eastern
By JOSHUA GOODMAN
Associated Press Writer
Breitbart.com
BOGOTA, Colombia
Colombia has dismantled a false passport ring with links to al-Qaida and Hamas militants, the acting attorney general said Thursday after authorities led dozens of simultaneous raids across five cities.
The gang allegedly supplied an unknown number of citizens from Pakistan, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt and other countries with false passports and Colombian nationality without them ever stepping foot in the country, the attorney general's office said in a written statement.
The counterfeited passports were then used to facilitate their entry into the United States and Europe.[...]
In a speech in late 2004 to the United Nations in New York, Uribe said Colombia needs "the total commitment of the international community against terrorism in Colombia. The terrorism in one country feeds and strengthens terrorist networks throughout the world."
U.S. officials have long feared al-Qaida could take advantage of corrupt government officials and weak institutions to launch an attack from south of the border.
Much of the focus in South America, however, has fallen on the large Muslim community in Paraguay along the porous border with Argentina and Brazil.
Authorities believe as much as $100 million a year flows out of the region, with large portions diverted to Islamic militants linked to Hezbollah and Hamas.
Posted by: Freedom1 at January 27, 2006 09:15 PM
This victory for Hamas bring the reality of a real peace in the Middle East a step closer.
Not until the hard-liners in Israel and Palistine sit down at the negociating table will their be a real agreement with teeth.
Posted by: Neo at January 27, 2006 10:19 PM
Cookie,
I don't think that you can blame anyone advocating democracy. It's just desperation that empowered Hamas, so I don't agree that Bush is between the proverbial rock and a hard place.
Posted by: Jim at January 27, 2006 10:30 PM
Hamas Says It Will Not Change
By STEVEN GUTKIN, Associated Press Writer
Sat Jan 28, 2:27 PM ET
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Following their resounding election victory, the Islamic militants of Hamas met the question of whether they will change their stripes with a loud "no": no recognition of Israel, no negotiations, no renunciation of terror.
Posted by: Freedom1 at January 28, 2006 09:16 PM
A majority of the Palestinian people have just demonstrated that they support Hamas' terrorism and suicide bombings. A majority of the Palestinian people have chosen to elect those Hamas terrorists to govern them. A majority of the Palestinian people have demonstrated that they want the destruction of the state of Israel and the genocide of Jews. It's a freaking disaster!
The US and the EU need to cut off all financial aid to the Palestinians, immediately.
Israel and the rest of the world know that Hamas wants to destroy Israel and now that Hamas is officially in power, their terrorism towards Israel has just been elevated to open warfare against Israel. Israel should prepare for war.
"Some are saying that this vote for Hamas is a blow to President Bush's program of democracy in the middle east."-Mark
It's not. This vote simply exposes the harsh reality of what the Palestinian people really want-namely the leadership of Islamic terrorists who want the annhilation of the state of Israel and the genocide of the Jewish people.
Hitler was democratically elected. That didn't reflect badly on democracy. It reflected badly on the people who elected Hitler. In the Palestinian territory, the Palestinians elected Hamas terrorists. This democratic vote reflects badly on the Palestinian people, not on the democratic process.
On the larger issue of democracy in the Middle East, this Palestinian election shows that democracy is not enough if it is not accompanied by freedom.
Freedom,
I'm not ready to resign myself to war with the Palestinians. This vote might have been less support for Hamas as opposition to the relentless corruption of Fatah. Time will tell, and I'm glad that President Bush isn't allowing himself to be stampeded into action before we see what the Hamas government does.
"I'm not ready to resign myself to war with the Palestinians."-Mark
I don't want war, either. But, it's coming nonetheless. Hamas are terrorists, Islamic terrorists who hate Israeli Jews more than any other groups of infidels on the planet.
"This vote might have been less support for Hamas as opposition to the relentless corruption of Fatah."
Sure. Fatah (Arabic for "conquest") is a corrupt terrorist organization, also. This vote was definitely a choice between two evils. The majority of the Palestinians chose the greater evil, Hamas.
"Time will tell, and I'm glad that President Bush isn't allowing himself to be stampeded into action before we see what the Hamas government does."
Of course we should wait and see what Hamas does. If and when Hamas attacks, then Israel should respond. However, Israel should prepare for the inevitable war to come while they wait.
I think President Bush is doing a pretty good job of dealing with Hamas' victory. He said that the US will not negotiate with Hamas terrorists until these terrorists renounce terrorism. That's consistent with US policy. I hope President Bush will end funding for the Palestinians now that terrorists run the Palestinian government. Hamas would be forced to make a choice: 1) keep terrorism and give up a billion dollars in aid annually from Western nations, or 2) renounce terrorism and continue receiving a billion dollars in aid annually. Of course, there's always the third option 3) keep terrorism and Iran and other Islamic nations continue to fund the Palestinians (and their terrorism against Israel).
Qur’an 4:55 “Sufficient for the Jew is the Flaming Fire!”
It's imperative that people understand the virulent hatred for Jews that the Islamic terrorist group Hamas harbors. The above quote from the Qur'an is just one of many, many, many such quotes. I urge people to scan this partial list of Islamic quotes about Jews. The level of hatred in Islam for Jews is simply unbelievable! Now Islamic terrorists run the Palestinian government. Tragic development.
Why do I have a problem with the fact that Jimmy Carter, our former president, oversaw the election. I remember him overthrowing the Shah of Iran...and now hime overseeing the election of Hamas in Palestine. Remember this is a man who likes Castro and Chavez. Could Jimmy Carter have helped this election with Hamas. Read the last paragraph. This is something to look into!
Carter: Vote was completely honest, fair
Friday, January 27, 2006
Associated Press
JERUSALEM -- Former President Jimmy Carter said yesterday the Palestinian elections were "completely honest, completely fair, completely safe and without violence."
Carter, who led an international observer team from his own Carter Center and the Washington-based National Democratic Institute, also said he hoped that the Hamas Islamic group would act responsibly now that it appears to have been elected to power in Palestinian elections.
"My hope is that as Hamas assumes a major role in the next government, whatever that might be, it will take a position on international standards of responsibility," he told a news conference in Jerusalem. Carter helped broker a lasting peace between Egypt and Israel at Camp David in 1978.
He noted, however, that Israeli restrictions in east Jerusalem meant that many of the city's estimated 120,000 eligible voters were unable to cast ballots and those who did were not able to do so in privacy. Instead, they were forced to mark ballot papers in view of staff at the Israeli post offices where limited polling was held.
recall that after decades of terrorism, the IRA eventually decommissioned it's armed wing & became politically active in Shin Fein.
Old Jimmy Carter did the expected when he put his personal blessing on this election.
Funny how he can find time to prop up elections of left-wing dictators and thugs, but couldn't bring himself to attend at least one Iraqi election.)
So now, his cherished Palestinians have chosen between Fatah and Hamas. That's like saying Chicago made a choice between Bugs Moran and Al Capone.
well if Hamas, carries through with it's war on Israel, that will give Israel a reason to clean house in Palestine. Hopefully, it won't come to that.
So far, the War President has overseen the first elected Islamic terrorist government and the first Iranian-dominated government outside Iran. What was that, again, about democracy always leading to peace?
The problem is, democracy requires more than just elections. It also needs a rule of law, stable institutions, basic economic security for the population, and checks and balances that forestall a tyranny of the majority.
A good example to learn from is Algeria. During the early 1990s, Algeria was a genuine democracy that was being increasingly infiltrated by an Islamic fundamentalist party with backing from Iran. Leading up to a general election, it became clear that the fundamentalist party would win and take over. If that happened, the party promised it would end democracy and cancel all future elections.
In response, the Algerian government cancelled the election and declared martial law. Under martial law, the government nurtured the rule of law, economic security and checks and balances. Five years later, free elections were held again and real democrats (small d) were elected. What a dilemma. Democracy would led to dictatorship, while dictatorship led to democracy.
"A majority of the Palestinian people have just demonstrated that they support Hamas' terrorism and suicide bombings. "
Or they support its lack of corruption and current truce with israel.
Freedom1 is an armageddonist. Now we know why Sharon had a stroke and went into coma, his aides told him that Hamas was going to win the January elections. Every policy that Sharon followed for 40 years was flushed by the Hamas victory. And by extention all of bush's policies are a pile of steaming $hit as well. Peace
I see the Palestinians as a disenfranchised people who are immorally and desperately reacting to their plight by empowering terrorists. Palestinian resistance has only sped up the loss of resources and peace for themselves as it only gave Israel and the rest of the world a reason to wage war against them. Only a democracy with checks and balances on power and a reduction of violence can save a people in these dangerous environments. What does Hamas know about any of these things? I see trouble ahead.
Jim,
Possibly, but Steve also shows how the terrorists have their enablers in the west...there's always people willing to blame the United States and excuse thuggery.
We shall have to see - do the Hamas leaders want to be the government of Palestine, or do they want to wind up back in exile?
I do not excuse "thuggery" on any side. I deplore all violence. You can't wash out blood, with blood. Peace
I agree with Jim.
The problem is, when you have an unjust society (in this case the Palestinian people with absolutely no rights), they will react accordingly. Given the tools of democracy, they will make the choices they think will best serve them.
This is the problem with democracy in the Middle East. If there is no social justice, no freedom, then democracy will only serve to provide a platform for those who exploit misery for their own purposes.
What can Bush say? If he condemns Hamas too loudly, he will be a hypocrite since he has made such a big deal of democracy in the Middle East. On the other hand, he is most likely aware that the Israeli hard liners will be shouting "I told you so".
Mark:
Many Hamas members (those who haven't been assasinated) and leaders are currently imprisoned. Due to the fragmented patchwork of the territories, the security wall, the checkpoints, etc. they might as well be in "exile".
(via Littlegreenfootballs.com) from The Hamas Charter:
"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious...The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah’s victory is realised...[...]
The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him...’
***********************************
So where does that last part of Hamas' charter come from? It comes from the "holy" books of Islam-
Hadiths, Sahih Bukhari:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight wi the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "
USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts
Sahih Bukhari is a collection of sayings and deeds of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), also known as the sunnah.[...] Bukhari's collection is recognized by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world to be one of the most authentic collections of the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh).
"Colombia Busts Ring Linked to al-Qaida"
Jan 26 11:22 PM US/Eastern
By JOSHUA GOODMAN
Associated Press Writer
Breitbart.com
BOGOTA, Colombia
Colombia has dismantled a false passport ring with links to al-Qaida and Hamas militants, the acting attorney general said Thursday after authorities led dozens of simultaneous raids across five cities.
The gang allegedly supplied an unknown number of citizens from Pakistan, Jordan, Iraq, Egypt and other countries with false passports and Colombian nationality without them ever stepping foot in the country, the attorney general's office said in a written statement.
The counterfeited passports were then used to facilitate their entry into the United States and Europe.[...]
In a speech in late 2004 to the United Nations in New York, Uribe said Colombia needs "the total commitment of the international community against terrorism in Colombia. The terrorism in one country feeds and strengthens terrorist networks throughout the world."
U.S. officials have long feared al-Qaida could take advantage of corrupt government officials and weak institutions to launch an attack from south of the border.
Much of the focus in South America, however, has fallen on the large Muslim community in Paraguay along the porous border with Argentina and Brazil.
Authorities believe as much as $100 million a year flows out of the region, with large portions diverted to Islamic militants linked to Hezbollah and Hamas.
This victory for Hamas bring the reality of a real peace in the Middle East a step closer.
Not until the hard-liners in Israel and Palistine sit down at the negociating table will their be a real agreement with teeth.
Cookie,
I don't think that you can blame anyone advocating democracy. It's just desperation that empowered Hamas, so I don't agree that Bush is between the proverbial rock and a hard place.
Hamas Says It Will Not Change
By STEVEN GUTKIN, Associated Press Writer
Sat Jan 28, 2:27 PM ET
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - Following their resounding election victory, the Islamic militants of Hamas met the question of whether they will change their stripes with a loud "no": no recognition of Israel, no negotiations, no renunciation of terror.