Lurch seems to be mellowing in his old age. In 1971, he said about those os us who served in Viet Nam;

The country doesn't know it yet, but it has created a monster, a monster in the form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and to trade in violence…..

..there will be some recrimination but far, far less than the 200,000 a year who are murdered by the United States of America…..

We were monsters and murderers. Today, they are just uneducated.

Still, he trips over his own tongue again.

Thank God he didn't win in '04

A Democrat behaving like a Democrat.

So what else is new?

I'm wondering if somebody who's "stuck in Iraq" is there just to get purple hearts and pad the ol' resume for a future presidential run.

Just wondering...

This is somewhat off topic, but I just couldn't resist telling why I have a problem with Kerry. The Dems have so often put forth a stereotype of rich people as not deserving of their wealth. The rich either inherited it or exploited poor hard-working people to get it. To them, those who work and those who are rewarded for work are two different sets of people. Yet, they fail to see the painfully obvious truth that John Kerry is the living incarnation of that very stereotype. He was born into a rich family, and later married two rich women, the second of which is far richer than himself. Theresa Heinz Kerry became rich by marrying her first husband, Senator John Heinz (R-PA, if I'm not mistaken), who was rich because he inherited that wealth from his rich ancestors, who became rich because of their food company, known for its ketchup. In the minds of the left of course, Heinz's ancestors became rich by exploiting the poor hardworking laborers who actually made the ketchup and other food products. All of this would mean that John Kerry is very far removed from the work which produced the wealth that he now enjoys. Now don't get me wrong, I have nothing per se against the generation, acquisition and inheritance of wealth, by Kerry, his own ancestors, the various Heinzes, or anyone else (as long as it's done through honest means). But I have a problem with lefties who complain about some people being richer than others, and who complain about "the rich" never having to work for their money, while hypocritically ignoring this very behavior on their own side of the aisle.

Where did that byte come from? The lobby of the 4 Seasons over a glass of La Crema in Austin?

The leadership of the House won't be decided until after Thanksgiving due to recounts and lawsuits. I hope the GOP is prepared to defend their votes, lest a repeat of Gregoire syndrome....find the votes until you win.

Well, maybe just to have fun the RNC should take his statement that if you have education you do well, and putting out ads how Kerry is touting the Bush economy's opportunities for the well educated, because it seems to run in the face of his old saw that the middle class is disappearing. And I hate to break it to the so well informed senator, but you still have to pass a test before you can get into military service. Well, you have to pass a test, and you have to pass a physical, but we wouldn't want to remind him of the whole medical records thing that for some reason he seems to feel guilty and/or ashamed about.

“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

Other ways to read this:
Kerry thinks he is doing well, and Bush is dumb, because he got stuck in Iraq.

Kerry lost and thinks he won, and believes Bush won because he is dumb.

Kerry is dumb doesn't recoginize loss, cannot comprehend Bush and his success.

Kerry believes only losers should be in Iraq, since he is again ready to cut and run on them.

Kerry forgot the third option. If you're only half-smart, you can join the military, go to a war zone, write yourself up for a purple heart when you cut yourself shaving or write yourself up for a commendation when you shoot a fleeing teenager in the back, then come back to the US, after only serving four months in-country and badmouth your fellow service members. Then, 30 years later, try to trade on your "medals" to run for office.

Patrickb63,
Good summary with the exception of join the military. Should read drafted, after draft-dodging options expired.

Well, I have to agree with Leo - that comment from Kerry was stupid and insensitive.

It was a very poor choice of words, but I think the point he was trying to make is that military personnel serving in Iraq come disproportionately from lesser advantaged groups. You can call him elitist, but what he is saying is that it isn't the sons and daughters of elites that are bearing the burden of fighting in Iraq. I think we can probably agree that that's true - no?

But please, Kerry did not win his medals "when he cut himself shaving." Enough of that crapola.

I think Kerry's point is this: wealthy or well-educated families rarely have members enlist in the armed forces. People serve, generally, because it is a good option in comparison to what they might have otherwise. If they didn't get a great eduation, they can receive special training and monetary benefits from serving.

Kerry isn't putting down our service men and women. Kerry is putting down a system that targets lower and middle-class people, and lesser-educated people, because they can't afford NOT to enlist.

Tim, my kid had nearly straight A's in high school and was a star football player.

He enlisted in the summer of his Junior year.

His options were wide open, but he wanted to serve. After his service, he plans on enrolling in school to be a state trooper.

Your characterization of the military as ne'redowells with no other options do truly smack of elitism; and although it continues to disgust me, my days of being surprised by such attitudes are long over.

Your comment only serves to add icing onto that rancid cake.

-Leo-

Why do the democrats keep lying about our military? Those who enlist have more education than society as a whole. 94.4% of those who enlist are high school graduates compared to only 89% of those in society as a whole.

The seething rage and irrational hatred that left wing kooks like Aarontime have for our young men and women in uniform is truly shocking!

At least some left wing fanatics are being honest. Here is an entry from a deomcrat kook website.

"Talk about speaking the stark truth to students who want more out of life. The education system in California is a mess, especially in L.A. County. Each day I pick my daughter up at school I see the recruiters leaving, smiling because they have snagged another kid who’s trapped by the system and sees no future other than enlisting. It shouldn’t be like this. A 50% drop out rate is unacceptable. What is the bottom line for these kids, a job at McDonald’s or Iraq. Kudos to Kerry for delivering a wake up call to the young voters at the rally"

But lets not question these kooks patriotism. Oh, but lets also not forget they "support the troops."

Kerry - keep talking until election day. Your words reveal the truth democrats have been trying to hide.

Kerry - a lone democrat trying to get republicans elected.

Go get them Kerry, let your mouth overload the democratic crap. Just tell us what you really think about those troops protecting your butt.

CJ -

"The seething rage and irrational hatred that left wing kooks like Aarontime have for our young men and women in uniform is truly shocking!"

huh? Where have I ever expressed anything even remotely close to "seething rage" towards our troops? I have never expressed nothing but admiration for them. Show me 1 time I have ever expressed "irrational haterd" towards our military. Go ahead, search through all my posts.

get it through your skull, CJ - someone saying our troops are being misused in Iraq does not equate in any way to "hating our troops" (in fact, quite the opposite). You Bushians have gotten away with that crapola for way too long. But now people see through it.

Bush is not the military, and critcizing Bush's gross incompetence is not a criticisom of the military. It is truly cowardly how the Bushians use our troops as a political shield.

Bwahahahahaha!!!! Kerry blames Rush Limbaugh for his hatred of our brave men and women in uniform.

Aarontime

You'd gain a lot more respect if you'd just admit your hatred for the military. I'm sure in your convoluted mind lying about the soldiers is somehow respecting them. For proof you said this:

"but I think the point he was trying to make is that military personnel serving in Iraq come disproportionately from lesser advantaged groups"

As all clear thinking individuals know that's a flat out lie. Why is it you think smearing the troops is respecting them?

There have been many studies proving just the opposite. Here is but one.

"According to a comprehensive study of all enlistees for the years 1998-99 and 2003 that The Heritage Foundation just released, the typical recruit in the all-volunteer force is wealthier, more educated and more rural than the average 18- to 24-year-old citizen is. Indeed, for every two recruits coming from the poorest neighborhoods, there are three recruits coming from the richest neighborhoods.
…
If, for example, we consider the education of every recruit, 98% joined with high-school diplomas or better. By comparison, 75% of the general population meets that standard. Among all three-digit ZIP code areas in the USA in 2003 (one can study larger areas by isolating just the first three digits of ZIP codes), not one had a higher graduation rate among civilians than among its recruits."

Now, if you're intellectually capable of doing so you might want to think why you thought our young women and men in the military come from "lesser advantaged groups?" Why would have that prejudice against them? What led you to believe those lies?

Errortime’s seething hatred for our military;
“Kerry is putting down a system that targets lower and middle-class people, and lesser-educated people, because they can't afford NOT to enlist.”

What an elitist!

He’s already been proven wrong about the “lesser educated” part; yet he clings to this Vietnam era nonsense that the military professionals are poverty dolts with no future unless they enlist and learn to kill people. So blinded by hatred he can't see his own prejudice.

Banal Existence -

Errortime’s seething hatred for our military;
“Kerry is putting down a system that targets lower and middle-class people, and lesser-educated people, because they can't afford NOT to enlist.”

Uh, sorry Bane, but that quote is from Tim, not me. Go look again. Again, show me a I quote I have ever made that indicates that I harbor "seething hatred" for our military. I grew up in a military family, my father flew F-4s in Vietnam, my brother is a JAG lawyer. I certainly don't hate the military.

Go ahead fight your liberal strawmen, if that's what gives you comfort. When you are ready to get back to reality, give me a ring.

Can't answer my question Aarontime? I proved you a liar, now are you going to apologize for smearing our troops?

I'm sorry, you're right, Tim had the decency to refer to military professionals as "lesser educated" while you proved your hatred with "lesser advantaged"
Sounds like a distinction without a difference to me.

CJ's points were more eloquent than mine; you military know-nothings just piss me off. Why don't you answer CJ?

Aarontime

Well, I have to agree with Leo -that comment from Kerry was stupid and insensitive.

It was a very poor choice of words, but I think the point he was trying to make is that military personnel serving in Iraq come disproportionately from lesser advantaged groups. You can call him elitist, but what he is saying is that it isn't the sons and daughters of elites that are bearing the burden of fighting in Iraq. I think we can probably agree that that's true - no?

But please, Kerry did not win his medals "when he cut himself shaving." Enough of that crapola.
Posted by: Aarontime

I don't think you know how Kerry really got his metals either, you continue to defend the traitor to those who are in battle now, and were in battle during Kerry's earlier backstabbing days.

CJ -

The study you cite is very interesting - thanks for the info. However, if you actually read the Heritage report, it is not really about who bears the burden of military enlistment, but rather, it is a comparison of that proportion pre-9/11 to post 9/11. Specifically, it looks at the make-up of recruits in 1999 vs recruits in 2003. The conclusion it makes is that there is no significant difference pre and post 9/11.

However, it is true that minorities from depressed inner-city areas and rural areas are over-represented in the armed forces. "Over-represented" does NOT mean that this class makes up the majority of enlistees. It merely means there are more of them serving in the military than you would expect from looking at the average make-up of the general population. For example, in 2004 fully 25% of the army were black, while only 12% of the general population is black. That percentage is down from about 29% in 2000, but it is still more than twice the percentage as in the general population.

Conversely, studies show that upper income brackets are severely under-represented in the military. For example, recruits from household incomes above $145,000 are represented at less than one-fifth the rate you would expect from the percentage of above $145k households in the general population.

In fact, the Heritage report actually bears out what I am saying: if you look at the graph midway though, it shows that the median household income distribution of military recruits in 1999 was about $35,000, while the national median household income was about $47,000.

That doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of middle-class white people serving in the military. In fact, as your study points out, the vast majority of armed forces personnel are still from the white middle-class.

I've been trying to post links the past few days, but they are not working. But here's where you can read more about military income/ethnicity distribution compared to the general population:
go to National Priorities Project at Nationalpriorities (dot) org

CJ -

"Can't answer my question Aarontime? I proved you a liar, now are you going to apologize for smearing our troops?"

Read my previous post CJ.

Is being disingenuous a typical trait of the left? Just about everything you said proves my point and proves your little quote about less advantaged a lie. Why did you leave this out?

"The Department of Defense (DOD) does not track family income data for recruits, and there are no individual income data for enlistees. Military service is the first full-time job for most of them. We approx­imate each recruit’s household income by using the median household income of his or her hometown ZIP code."

If you're not going to be intellectually honest why bother debating?

Oh, Boy. Another "Smack-Down" for Aarontime,

"But please, Kerry did not win his medals "when he cut himself shaving." Enough of that crapola."

You are correct, he did not cut himself shaving.

He fired a grenade-launcher at the shoreline when he was too close. There was no enemy contact. As a result, he got a single piece of shrapnel in his arm. Most people would have just pulled it out (it was only a couple of milimeters long and barely penetrated the skin), but not John Kerry. He went to Sick-Call to have the splinter removed. He then tried to get submitted for a Purple Heart, but was laughed off. He later got the Purple Heart recommendation sumbitted by a Commander who knew nothing about the incident.

For another of his Purple Hearts, he received grenade shrapnel in his derriere when he threw a grenade on a rice pile and didn't get far enough away. Again, there was no enemy action, required for the award of the Purple Heart.

Even his third Purple Heart (not necessarily in chronological order) is in question.

Of course, if Senator Kerry would just sign the SF 180, we could take a look at his military records and clear up the controversy.

Aarontime,

Show a little class for once. Stop defending everything that comes out of a Democrats mouth. All you need to do is come out and say that "Senator Kerry was out of line".

We'd agree, then turn to other issues.

But noooooooo. You have to go defend him. Then today, at his press conference, he makes an even bigger fool of himself. He blames Rush Limbaugh, President Bush, and everyone but himself for making a stupid remark. All he had to do is make this statment: "I apologize for my comments. I was trying to make a joke and I bombed. I met no disrespect to our men and women serving in the Armed Forces."

When a Republican makes a comment that we don't agree with, we call him/her on it. For example, we're not happy about the President's support of various spending initiatives and we comment on them.

Have a little integrity for once.

Aarontime,

Although I'll admit that the passage below is not overt "hatred" for the military, it is proof that you have regularily tried to insult those who have served. Does this rant sound familiar?

"It's very obvious why you guys are so homophobic, and why you try to project a tough guy image with monikers like "bearmanUSMC" and "warriornation" and "A-10" etc: It's because deep inside you're really a bunch of hand-wringing hysterical little girls. You're ashamed of your feminine inability to control your own fearful hysteria. You were probably beat up a lot in grade school, just like your heros on wingnut radio. To compensate for your feminine insecurities, you adopt an aggressive veneer, shouting down anyone who fails to see the "logic" behind your absurdly fevered visions.

Basically, you project that the people who disagree with you are really the effeminate ones. You wrap yourselves behind the flag and the military. That's why you are especially hostile to veterans who see things differently from you: because if you can convince yourself that your way of seeing things is the same as the soldiers, then perhaps you really aren't the scared little girl you suspect yourself of being."

I replied to your emotional outburst (on the "What is Winning the War on Terrorism?" thread), but like you frequently do, you tucked your little tail between your legs and slithered off.

Here's part of my reply:

"It's because deep inside you're really a bunch of hand-wringing hysterical little girls."

"Basically, you project that the people who disagree with you are really the effeminate ones."

Those two comments say it all. You project in conservatives, who do not agree with you, that we are "hand-wringing hysterical little girls."

I'm sure that "bearmanUSMC", "warriornation", "Retired Spook", Mark, and others would be glad to compare their military service and training with yours anyday, but comparing our decades of service to our nation with nothing would be pointless.

"I certainly don't hate the military."

You probably don't. But you certainly don't show respect for them or for those who have previously served. I alway respect the service of those who wore the uniform honorably. However, like Benedict Arnold before them, those who once served can turn to the dark side. Some become traitors. Some testify untruthfully to Congress. Some call our servicemembers "terrorists". Some call them "Nazis". Some call them "murderers". And I'm just talking about Democrat elected officials.

" ... it is true that minorities from depressed inner-city areas and rural areas are over-represented in the armed forces" Errortime fantasy.

Reality; "The estimate for mean household income of recruits increased every year from 2003 through 2005. The poorest areas continue to be underrep­resented, while middle-class areas are overrepre­sented.

When you lack the fact; make it up, eh Error?

Sounds like a right wing talking point to me. If you read or listen to the whole speech Kerry is clearly speaking about the administration, not the troops. Stop cherry picking quotes out of context....

Remember Lurch's mindset....the clymer is NEVER wrong about ANYTHING!!!
He falls snowboarding...it wasn't his fault..it was the SOB Secret Service Agent who got in his way....these incidences are legion...
Remember what his Mother said to him on her death bed?? His words...Integrity, John, integrity!!
Me thinks, she knew her son!!!!
He truly is the gift that keeps on giving...

And Morphie...better to be silent and seem a fool or to open your mouth so there is no doubt..I am paraphrasing here...but you get the general idea!!!

Morphie,

I've looked, but haven't found a transcript of the entire speech. Without one, we'll have to take it at face value. Besides, the comments seem out of place in the middle of a "Bush-bashing".

More likely, Kerry got caught with foot inserted in mouth. Again.

Of course he is an elitist...a left wing savage elitist...

I have said this for years..

He is a limousine liberal...

The worst kind of Democrat Ilk on the land...