Mark:

The political leaning of media is different for each. Take Keith Olbermann for example. His ratings are on the rise since he started calling out Bush and his administration. This is an area that obviously liberalism can make inroads in at this point in time. Liberal radio is still young. Air America is far from gone. When a business fails it doesn't always mean the product is bad. I'm not a huge fan of AA though. I'm more into the blues and jazz than talk radio.

Take Keith Olbermann for example. His ratings are on the rise since he started calling out Bush and his administration.

Bwahahahahahaha!!! When you have little to no ratings to begin with, they can't help but go up. Hell, MSLSD has the lowest ratings of any cable news outlet, except maybe CNBC, which is more of a financial network. Olberman? Isn't he still in Ohio, trying to win Election '04 for Ol' Spitball Lurchie?

It has less to do with the ideas than the method. I listen to Air America now and then, but, frankly, it's no differeent that the caustic garbage coming from right wing radio.

Sorry to say, Mark, but liberals aren't as easily fooled by loud mouth ideolougues as your ilk are. We enjoy intelligent conversation and informative talk.

Loud mouths who we agree with are only mildly entertaining. I suppose that's why you enjoy knocking NPR and honest media... hearing an honest debate is too much for your extremely partisan mind.

Nonetheless, Air America will get through this period, and a year from now you'll post the same crap as today.

Earlier this year, when Code Pink demonstrated at the northeast corner of 24th Street and Camelback Road (the Biltmore shopping center), I had an oppotrunity to debate one of the local Air America hosts, with Flight Pundit as my ally. The host was so impressed with the way we presented ourselves without resorting to name-calling or ad hominem attacks, that he invited us to appear on an Air America program to do the same.
Unfortunately, I had other commitments, and sadly, neither I nor Flight Pundit could appear. Oh well....

Mark,

Air America failures are due to low ratings in key demographic areas... New York, Chicago, Portland, etc...

All these places are very solidly blue. I live in Chicago, a majority of my friends vote Democratic and I can't name one who listens to Air America (including myself).

In Chicago, Rush Limbaugh steadily earned a much better share than Franken. So should we expect Chicago to vote for Robert Frist in the 2008 republican primary?

You have a very basic, simple argument here that, if one takes a closer look at, really falls apart. Air America failed because it failed in the markets that are very blue and show no signs of waning support for democrats. Air America's failings have more to do with it's core audience not being interested in political radio than any political trends in the country.

Most progressive people are not listening to the radio religiously like (Head)Rush's listeners. They are running companies, universities, engaging in sports and listening to music while they enjoy life and the future. Many people who listen to talk radio are older folks for which the simple (hide drugs, race and sexuality issues and let them fester under the surface... think Elvis and Rock Hudson )life seems appealing. Its a scary new world out there and Rush fans need a
person to tell them THEY are OK, its the world thats going crazy. In reality the world is moving on and just like the leaders of the anti-civil rights struggles of the 60's, Rush's main fan base will be dead or incapacitated soon and things like gay marriage will be common place like interracial marriage..GASP!Sean Hannity is popular but he repeats the same phrases and talks about Nancy Pelosi over and over and over. It takes a very limited mentality to enjoy that daily, Although I listen religiously because I love to hear talking heads spinning the truth and listening to "Great Americans" regurgitate his phrases to him.THE FUTURE AWAITS!!!

Tom and Gray,

You just keep telling yourselves that - especially you, Gray, with your condescending atttitude towards the people of the right...be sure to keep convincing the Democratic Party that a further leftward shift will help them out.

I'd have to say that any liberal talk program would fail. Most of the income from these programs comes from people who have the ability to listen to the radio at the work.

The type of people that would believe it is ok to pay $2500 for two air mattresses connected to a regulated airpump held together by plastic and foam (the sleepnumber bed).

How about the type of people that believe in 'get rich quick' gold purchases? Put all your money into gold!

How about the 'herbal remedies' for erectile dysfunction.

let's not forget the weight lose herbs that magically reduce the way your body stores fat.

Mortgage rates for just 1% APR!

Get rich quick from real estate with using absolutely no money!

Talk radio does well because the type of people that would actually pick up the phone to order one of those phoney products are in that audience.

Mark, I'm not telling myself anything. It's a fact. Air America is failing in regions that are heavily blue and don't show signs of shifting toward being more red.

Air America's poor ratings is matter of it not connecting with its core audience, not America rejecting the liberal view point.

The only liberal talk show I've ever listened to was Jim Hightower, and a couple times was about all I could take. Others must have felt the same way, because it didn't last very long. The biggest problem with liberal talk radio, IMO, is the negativity aspect. Even Liberals don't enjoy a consistently negative message. Conservatives, whether you agree with them or not, are, at least for the most part, optimistic about the future.

I'll confess the only talk show I listen regularly to is Rush's. I avoid Hannity for the reason Gray notes: "he repeats the same phrases and talks about Nancy Pelosi over and over and over." Rush is more of a political analyst and commentator than a rightwing zealot. Anyone who doubts that either hasn't listened to him or has a very closed mind. When I first heard him during the 1992 presidential campaign, my initial reaction was "what a blowhard", but the more I listened, the more I realized that he articulated the mainstream Conservative message better than anyone I'd ever heard. He doesn't deal in sound bites and talking points; in fact he regularly ridicules talking points. His show is entertaining (his parodies are hillarious), informative, and his political prognostications are seldom wrong. His message is rarely anything but positive and upbeat.

Oh, and Gray, the most expensive Select Comfort mattress I've ever seen is around $1,500. My wife and I have a queen-size Select Comfort bed for which we paid around $800. Best mattress we've ever had. Select Comfort's success has nothing to do with Right or Left. It's just a good product, period. On your other points, I'd be interested in seeing statistics showing that gold, herbal suplements, absurdly low mortgage rates and get-rich real estate schemes attract people from a particular socio-political demographic.

Here are a sample of Air America's ratings from August 2005:

In Boston, the two AAR stations take up the last two spots in the ratings chart with ratings of 0.4 and 0.2.

In New York, the flagship AAR station, WLIB has just a flat 1.0 rating and is in 24th place.

In Detroit, WDTW was a flat 0.4 which is tied for last in the city.

In Chicago, WCPT is stuck at 0.4 and just out of the cellar in the market.

In San Francisco, KQKE increased slightly to a tiny 1.4 in the most liberal city in the county and is in 23rd place. Still the station is down 0.5 from last summer. In San Jose, KQKE improved to 1.1, but is also down 1.5 last summer.

In Los Angeles, KLTK improved slightly to 0.9, but is in 30th place in the market.

In Monterey-Santa Cruz (CA) area, the AAR station didn't even make the ratings list.

In Al Franken's hometown of Minneapolis, KTNF is down to just a 0.9 rating.

http://www.radiobs.net/thebluestateconservatives/archives/2005/08/air_america_rat_2.html

It's worth noting that Franken is very popular in his home state. Minneapolis has one of the best public radio networks in the country (including perhaps the best music station in the country). A lot of liberals listen to NPR. I think that's part of the problem Air America is facing. (and no, this doesn't mean NPR is liberally biased. It is in fact one the most unbiased news outlets in the country. Don't believe, go give it a listen.)

The fact that Air America does so poorly in such liberal hot beds is great proof that Mark's theory that Air America's failings are a sign of America rejecting liberal view points is total BS.

Oops, sorry, that last paragraph should have been addressed to grosseMann.

The least expensive sleep number beds are currently 850 and the most expensive are 4400 (plus shipping) according to their website.

However, I will give you that liberal radio is boring. Even whenever I have the choice, I prefer conservative because it gets me agitated. Liberal radio is just boring because all they do, much like Sean Hannity is complain and repeat. Glenn Beck is my favorite and Michael Savage is next. Rush just annoys the hell out of me with his commercials. NPR is great because they don't editorialize and they always read viewer responses, both pro and con without commenting.

I don't know if these are posting or not as I'm having problems.

Glenn Beck has the best ads though. Apples to Apples games (right on!), Bills Khakis (I agree, very nice), Spy Book (probably a good read). His ads are less trickery, offering a real product.

As a normal liberal, i.e. I don't sit around all day thinking about Bush or politics (I work, play with my spouse, work in the yard, work on the house, cook, clean). Read- as a normal American.
.....

I would say that I would prefer shows like - Komando computer show, gary sullivan home repair, Medical shows, BOB Brinker Money Show (12 hours a day I wish!), Travel shows, etc. Those shows would really interest me as a liberal because I'm more interested in knowledge. Perhaps they could even throw a grammar course in there for me.

GrosseMann, you don't sound like the typical Liberal who posts here. We used to get Bob Brinker's show, and I would concur with your assessment -- smart guy. Much of what I know about investing I learned from his show when it was on here. I will sometimes get Dr. Dean Edell and Kim Komando in the car, and I enjoy them both. Glen Beck can be funny, although he frequently gets off on a tangent that spirals into incomprehensible gibberish. He's on from 9AM to Noon, a time when I'm generally too busy to listen. Rush happens to be on when I'm eating lunch or in the car. To be honest, I tend to tune out commercials. Other than Select Comfort, I can't even tell you who advertises on Rush's show.

We did buy our Select Comfort on sale, but they have sales so often, I can't imagine anyone paying retail for one. We've had ours for around 3 years, and it has the pillowtop but does not have the digital readout on the remote. Our neighbors on either side of us have the queen size with pillow top and digital readout, and both paid around $1,500. The only time the readout would have been nice was when my granddaughter played with the remote, and it took a couple weeks to get it back to the setting that was most comfortable for me. For $4,400 they ought to throw in a plasma TV and a vibrator/heat massage, heh.

"A lot of liberals listen to NPR. I think that's part of the problem Air America is facing." Shipley

On that I will agree. But Tom when you say:

"(and no, this doesn't mean NPR is liberally biased. It is in fact one the most unbiased news outlets in the country. Don't believe, go give it a listen.)"

YOU MUST BE JOKING!!!!!

Name one conservative radio personality on NPR...just one. Hell, name one that is impartial. You can't there aren't any. But how about Bill Moyer? Not liberal??? Terry Gross, Fresh Air? Not liberal? Diane Rehm, That old bag with a speech impediment? Not liberal?? Maria Inohosa? Not Liberal?? Tell me WHO on NPR is not liberal. I'd really like to know because every time I have ever listend it sounds like it to me. Why do you think that their main listening audiences are in Liberal Metro areas and College campuses??

Hell, even Frick and Frak the car talk guys, probably the most inocuous of the bunch aren't above pepering their broadcasts with some shots at conservatives.

Mark your the one who is consistently condescending to anyone with a differing opinion than yours. Your a joke.

Lomstradamus,

I probably do condescend - and for that I'm sorry, and I am working on not doing it.

Tom,

I think you've, once again, not listened to what I said, have constructed a false strawman about what you wish I had said, and are demolishing the position I don't hold, and soon you'll go on to crow about how you bested me in a debate I didn't have with you.

I'm saying that in a year when, allegedly, the leftwing base in on fire for politics and is sure of victory, the liberal radio network should have had some success, rather than bankruptcy.

I know you liberals are too busy with highbrow activities to devote too much time to politics - thus explaining the miserable failures of Daily Kos and DU, right? - but between the documentaries about the South African Slugeater and retrospectives on the life of some old commie, there should be a little time for radio devoted to the destruction of all things Bush and GOP...the fact that there isn't speaks volumes abot the true lay of the political land...you on the left are NOT energised and are NOT poised for victory next month...

Tom,

Oh, and about NPR - it is the most relentlessly biased news source there is...but I grant it is done in high style and with genuine intellectual stimulation...but pinko they are.

On NPR:

Guys, go listen to it. Their news broadcasts are the most unbiased around. They're news reports are straightforward reporting. When they do news stories, they provide opinion and analysis from both those with left and right political views.

I have no illusion that NPR is not populated by liberals or those who lean to the left, but good journalists put aside their political view points when they report the news, and this is what NPR does.

And Mark, you're right, I did not read your post closely enough. But still, you're argument is still weak.

For a variety of reasons, liberals don't like listening to a radio station that consists of other liberals bitching about politics. You forget there were record numbers of liberals who voted in 2004 as well. The base was energized. Still, Air America did not do well.

I'm not sure what facts you're using when you come to the conclusion that because Air America has consistently not done well in it's run--the bankruptcy is a result of steady poor ratings, not because their ratings tanked recently--that voters will not turn out to support democratic nominees.

It just seems like very simple-minded argument: oh, look, Air America went bankrupt... the left base must not be energized.

I'll tell you something right now that I think will decide this election in November. The left base is not who you need to worry about. You need to worry about moderates, and yes, conservatives, who are disillusioned with the leadership in Washington. You can see it on this site. Many conservatives are not happy with their party. Conservatives are now taking Murtha's stance on the war:

"A NEW American report is expected to recommend withdrawing troops from Iraq.

The White House is currently considering options including "Redeploy and Contain", which would mean withdrawing American troops to bases outside Iraq where they could be deployed against terrorist organizations anywhere in the region.

The report is being prepared by a 10-member commission called the Iraq Study Group, which is being headed by former US Secretary of State James Baker and is reportedly backed by President Bush."

THAT'S MURTHA'S PLAN. And a realize this may not be what Baker's recommending, but only an option he puts on the table, but still, Baker will not be attacked the way Murtha was. And it just goes to show how terrible this country has been run for the past 6 years. You get patriotic American, military vet, with a strong pro-military history, who offers an alternative to the president's failing war policy and he's attacked (viciously) at a traitor. A man who served his country for most of his life. Those who have done this should be ashamed.

There aren't enough people out there like you Mark, someone who despises liberals so much that they'd never vote democratic. Sure, there's that base, sure there's the religious "nuts" in the south, but many Americans are willing to give democratic candidates a chance. And I think now that some of the democratic plans for Iraq are getting consideration by an honest conservative, the house of cards that the democratic opposition to how this war is being fought is treasonous, will begin to fall.

Now, as I've been hoping for, a serious discussion will take place about the best policy to go forward with in Iraq. I'll give Bush credit for realizing something had to be done and bringing in Baker.

One correction, I guess it was Congress, not Bush, who convened this panel headed up by Baker.

I drop in on AA every now and then, just to find out what they're saying. And I find it to be All Hate, All The Time.

In addition to that, it is, simply, one bald-faced lie after another. It's stunning. But it feeds a certain segment of society which is dominated by sullen resentment and has finally found a voice.

I find Rush to be too repetitive. And I dislike his emotional appeal---it's demagogic. Even my husband, a non-political type, will yell at the radio "I GET it! Move on!" Sean Hannity has become a little too fixated on certain people, and I don't learn much from his show. But I will say that I have never found either of them to tell us something that was not true. Not to say that I agree with their take on some things, or their approach, but they do present facts. And Air America simply lies. Air America simply says whatever they think their loyal base will swallow, and it appears to be nearly anything if it is spiteful enough and goofy enough and vicious enough. But Ranty Rhodes is a genius at wandering through a long litany of truly unrelated topics and making them seem not only related but significantly so, linking the unlinkable by association, at least to the gullible.

I think the best political commentary on radio is Hugh Hewitt. He is really smart and really funny, and packs more straightforward information into three hours than the rest do in a week. His guests are the best, and he has The Smart Guys on regularly---two law professors, one a Lib and one a conservative---to discuss legal and Constitutional issues and Supreme Court rulings from both sides. He is not hyperemotional, he does not indulge in name-calling, and he is fair. And he also does movie reviews, from current movies to The Best Movies Ever Made About Ohio (or horses, or boats, or boxing, etc.) and once made every call-in caller talk like a pirate.

Glen Beck gurgles and it drives me nuts. It's kind of a self-satisfied chortle, and it's annoying.

Mike Gallagher is excellent. But Michael Savage is our version of a radical nut job. I'm a pretty hard-core conservative, but I'm a rational and fair conservative who wants information and facts, not demagoguery.

New here, so be patient with me.

I am liberal, but do not listen to Air America or any other radio shows very much. During this busy campaign season, I am either knocking on doors or making telephone calls. Who has time to listen to the radio when there are voters to be contacted!

The fact that Air America has filed for bankruptcy protection doesn't worry me much. United Airlines filed for the same thing back in December of 2000, and, last time I checked, they are still flying.

It's amusing reading the AAR rants over on DailyKos and DU since the bankrupcy filing. Some of the posters are blaming it on the "right winger management" in charge of the network.

I kid you not.