Time to cut off all aid. They are unable to feed themselves without outside food aid.

I heard on the news this AM that our government had blocked a bank which was being used by the North Korean tyrants to hide their money...which means that North Korea is likely on the verge of collapse and the top guys are feathering their nest for a fall...and this, in turn, indicates why we've gone on a soft approach towards North Korea...no sense starting a war with a country which can be relied upon to die soon.

Well... quite a bit of sabre rattling from those on the verge of collapse... kind of makes you wish that we had direct talks...

Wow. Imagine the concept of a nuclear armed country testing their weapons just as the United States has done for over 50 years. (Ed. Note - most of comment deleted as a combinatoin of off topic and bigoted).

Bush was right...axis of evil...N. Korea, Iran and Iraq.

Oh how right he was.

What I find fascinating is in 1993 Clinton sent his emmisary, former pres Jimmy Carter to N. Korea to cut a deal with them. As a result of the deal, the N. Koreans promised (crossed their heart and hoped to die stick a needle in their eye) that they would not develop a nuclear weapon.

Of course Clinton and Carter said .. "OK, we trust you" and by 1999 we finally figured out they were lying their arses off. Shocking.

So now we have this.

Why is it that everything Carter ever touched goes to absolute crap. EVERYTHING.

Why direct talks Frawg....they didn't work when Clinton / Carter did it so why do them again? This administration didn't want to repeat the same mistakes of Clinton, but actually get the folks most effected (China, S. Korea and Japan) involved since they are in the neighborhood.

But hey, that's just another of your guys complete HYPOCRISY.

On Iraq you bitch non stop that we "went in alone" even though there were many nations as part of the coalition.

On Korea, we push mulitiple nation talks and you guys bitch that we should go it alone.

You guys are an absolute joke of hypocrisy.

I will be surprised if this wasn't a conventional explosion designed to make the world think it was a nuke. We should know soon as a nuke apparently gives off a specific signature.

In the meantime...axis is off the mark as usual with baseless allegations of actual sexual molestation. Newsflash moron...the dems are the party of real sexual molestation...ie. Studds and Reynolds. Get your facts straight.

Warrior, if N. Korea and Iran are so important and so dangerous, why are we only discusssing this NOW, 6 years into the Bush presidency? Fault Carter and Clinton all you like, at least they did something, Bush just ignored it totally like so much else until it became convenient to use them as another fear mongering tool to try and get the American public behind him, which will fail this time, because its the same sick play as before and the public has seen it over and over and know how this plays out.

1) You dream up an imaginary threat and launch and attack

2) You screw it all up and get a whole bunch of soldiers killed because you attacked with no plan and no exit strategy

3) With no hopes of winning, you pass the problem onto the next president as you have no idea on how to fix it once you broke it.

Georgia,

In dealing with States like North Korea, there is always the threat of a mad dog attack...it is a risk which is inherent in the failed idea that you can negotiate with barbarians...always better to strike them down when you had the chance. Had we done the right thing in 1951, as MacArthur urged, then the NK nightmare would be a distant memory by now.

Axis,

There is a difference between a democratic republic holding nuclear weapons and lunatics in control of a State holding them...and if you can't see the difference, then you are really 'round the bend.

I wouldn't assume China coming out today against a nuke test is anything more than propaganda. It's a little too well timed isn't it, they get in just before the buzzer?

I have no doubt that they received advanced word from the North Koreans and assured them of continued obstruction to substantive US efforts against North Korea in the UN. Sure, they'll sign on when it's an expression of concern, but I have great doubt whether they'll continue their concern to the point of putting anything in the path of Il's collision course with the US. Even if they do approve a resolution, it'll be Iraq all over again; they'll be dealing with them in violation of the resolutions. The Chinese will go against North Korea about the same time that North Korea gets sanctioned for violating the international treaties they already signed (never).

Georgia,
What have direct talks with the NKs ever accomplished? Direct talks are the ways by with Il divides and conquers.

Axis,
You write:
"Its pretty bad when its up to the democrats to step forward and state the obvious, that child molestation is wrong, and its even worse when the Republicans are more concerned about how it will look to voters rather than putting a stop to congressmen molesting their constituents kids."

Way to wander way off the thread to hit your talking point. And where exactly are the so called concerned Democrats calling for investigations into all complaints from pages? Where's Pelosi calling for stricter regulations and rules against affairs with interns? I don't see her doing that. Do you know why? It's because they've had a lot more page/intern scandals than conservatives, they have the sense to know that a lot more are coming, and they don't want to see their buddies go to jail.

Morris,

The word in the MSM is that China only had 20 minutes notice...don't know whether that is true, of course...if it is, then it is a massive insult to China, North Korea's only friendly face in the east Asian world...time will tell whether or not China decides to join the civilized world to take down the insane NK regime.

phnxbmed,

Interesting idea - and lets hope you're on to something with it...much better if NK was just trying to bluff us to the negotiating table.

Axis, maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, but the Bush Administration has been talking about N. Korea almost since day one.

Get with the program.

Good God you guys are pathetic.

Hey, here's an idea. Maybe the Canadians can come in and save the day.

ROLLING MY EYES

Warrior,

He's just confused...you see, to lefty Canadians like him, the word "negotiate" means "US surrender"...

I'd like to remind all of you of this photograph

Thank you Madelline and Bill. Bunch of boobs.

Warrior,

Don't be so hard on Madeline...she spent her whole career hoping to kowtow to some commies, somewhere...and she thought when the Berlin Wall came down that her life's dream of surrender to the Reds was finished...fortunately, her lust for capitulation was able to be consumated in NK...a bit late in the day, but for a liberal its never too late to crawl in the muck to kiss the boots of tyrants.

Mark,

Apparently there is, since North Korea is not going around using nukes as bully tools as Bush has, justifying the use of nuclear weapons as a viable option in an pre-emptive attack.

So who is the bigger lunatic, a rogue state that possesses nukes as a defensive tool, or a now rogue state (USA under command of Bush) that threatens to bomb other countries back into the stone age unless they comply with the Neocon agenda?

"There is a difference between a democratic republic holding nuclear weapons and lunatics in control of a State holding them...and if you can't see the difference, then you are really 'round the bend."

-- EXACTLY Warrior. The problem is that TALK is cheap. Especially when it comes from the lips of a pathalogical liar that has done nothing more than lie to the American people since day 1.

Clinton and Carter actually took ACTION. Bush just talked about doing something. Thats what seperates the MEN (clinton, carter), from the boys (bush). Thats what is really pathetic around here.

"Axis, maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events, but the Bush Administration has been talking about N. Korea almost since day one."

Axis,

Yeah, great action - cut a deal which allowed them to go on with their nuclear development without interference...most brilliant diplomatic effort since Munich...

And, get a grip: you are actually writing as if its better for NK to have nukes than the United States of America.

How much does a nuke go for nowadays? Can you imagine if one fell into the hands of the terrorists! Canada and Mexico would be wise to back the USA on any and all sanctions against N.Korea. Nuclear winds don't stop at the border.
As far as Clinton and Carter, they did nothing. Madeline Notsobright drank champagne and gave lip service to the Kook Yung Il. Carter admin couldn't handle foreign relations let alone a hostage crisis and the US economy was in the tank!
We have come closer to nuclear holocaust today. Nuclear technology and nukes will be for sale to the highest bidder by a mad man who starves his people.

Mark,

I can't speak of North Korea's intention on what they will do with their nukes, however history shows that the United States is the only country in the world ever to drop an atom bomb on another country. History also shows that President Bush as the only leader in world history that condones nuclear bombs in a pre-emptive strike as a viable option against a country that won't be a threat for 8-10 years at the earliest. While N. Korea is a brutal dictatorship, I personally feel more comfortable with Kim Jong having nukes rather than a sociopath like Bush having them because while Kim Jong talks the talk, he won't walk the walk and so there is a far greater risk of GWB starting a nuclear conflict than N. Korea.

As for your other arguement, ACTION is still action, which Carter and Clinton took. All GWB has done for 6 years is TALK. Once again, talk is cheap. GWB could have disarmed N. Korea in 2003 as well as cripple Irans ambitions rather than attack a non-nuclear capable country than posed NO threat to the US and had never attacked america and had no connections to the terrorists that did.

Simply put Mark, you can't own up to your own leaders shortfalls, in this case, the shortfall that caused him to go knocking on the wrong doors (Iraq rather than Iran/N.Korea)

History will paint the truth that Bush's mishandling of everything entrusted to him makes carter look like a great leader. As for Clinton, he was a great leader, one of the greatest presidents in US history. GWB has the fame of being the worst in US history. Something to be proud of without a doubt.

uffy, you have a point, the threat of terrorist using a low yield nuke is a far greater threat than Iran or North Korea.

Considering that the war in Iraq has caused world terrorist acts to go from under 200 in 2003 to more than 11 000 in 2005, you have a lot more terrorists in the world than you did pre-Bush

What a legacy huh?

"since North Korea is not going around using nukes as bully tools as Bush has, justifying the use of nuclear weapons as a viable option in an pre-emptive attack." axis of stupidity

Unless the US holds direct talks with us we will test our nuclear weapon...North Korea

NO use of nukes aa bully tool here right?

"I personally feel more comfortable with Kim Jong having nukes rather than a sociopath like Bush having them." axis of lunacy

This says it all...what more can be added??? Axis now has terminal BDS and has now gone completely 'round the bend.

ya Axis:
If Clinton and Carter GIVING NK 6 billion dollars and nuclear technology for energy production AND he went ahead and created nukes... I would have preferred the Bush approach of just talking from the beginning.

And secondly... where do you think terrorists are going to get nukes? They just going to make them? OR... are they going to get them from countries like Iran and NK?

It's interesting how quickly Axis will go ape over something if it's clear that the Democrats before Bush made some majob blunders. It's funny actually. Silly Canadian... calm down.

I imagine you're a mental patient, but what with waiting lists in the Canadian health service, you haven't been able to check into the looney bin yet due to waiting lists. Want me to see if I can get you to the front of the line?

Axis,
You write:
"Apparently there is, since North Korea is not going around using nukes as bully tools as Bush has, justifying the use of nuclear weapons as a viable option in an pre-emptive attack."

Really? North Korea isn't using nukes as bullying tools? So if I just take out a gun and show it to you, then fire it, after saying how your my greatest enemy, I'm not bullying you? I do not think that word means what you think it does.

And you're right, Clinton took action. He and Albright gave Il the means to produce nuclear weapons on a handshake deal that Il wouldn't produce them. Do we really need more of that kind of action? And you make a tremendous assumption here, that if we had gone in and destroyed the NKs, China wouldn't have done anything about it. I'm not as certain of this as you appear to be. Although I'm sure if Clinton were prez he would act as he did with Osama, warning the Chinese in plenty of time to let Il gear up his air defense systems and maybe shoot first. But of course he hasn't done it yet, so in your closed mind you are not able to see the potential that he would. I thought liberals were supposed to be smart, unrestrained, able to see potentials where others don't.

It would be funny if all the stupid North Koreans were doing was blasting for another Bunker to hide in (Typical behaviour for dis-honorable outlaw nations and cowards) and Bush decided to use it as a October Surprise (Typical behaviour for men trying to get the publics attention off a terrible situation involving men and pages).

"the Bush Administration has been talking about N. Korea almost since day one."

Talking is all the Bush Administration has done for the past six years regarding NK. Bush has simply followed the lead of every administration since Eisenhower and it has now blown up (pardon the pun)in our face. Blame Clinton, Bush, Kennedy, Nixon, or whoever. This is not only a Bush issue, but a failed policy that this country has been following for decades. Now are we going to sit back and wait for Iran to follow suit?

wawilliyo is 100% on regarding terrorists getting their hands on these nukes. How long are we going to continue to sit back and wait?

Axis...you are so delusional it is incredible. Up the medication.

The action, as you describe it, that Clinton and Carter took was to NEGOTIATE with a terrorist, give him what he wanted and then he lied anyway and built his nukes.

Wow, what a great plan.

IDIOTS all!

Just like Neville Chamberlain..."We have a lasting peace"...negotiate with crazy dictators and you have only yourselves to blame. Carter, Clinton and Chamberlain exhibts A, B and C

I see nothing has changed at B4B. Warboy bangs the drums of war and destruction, completely missing the dynamics that will preserve our world. All that is missing is keefer correcting speling.

Which drums of war am I banging "Frank"

Please point them out? What I'm banging is this notion by liberals time and time again that we can trust other leaders, especially dictators, and that the world is made of marshmellows gumdrops and cotton candy clouds.

Guess what, it isn't. And one day there is going to be a large mushroom cloud over an American city and we're all going to sit there with our thumb up our ass and wonder how it happened.

Just as Chamberlain did with Hitler.

I'm not advocating war as your lying statement suggests. But I'm certainly not advocating appeasement like you guys are.

Warrior, libs do not understand the idea of negotiating from strength. To them "negotiating" means appeasement. That would be how we got into this mess with NK, Clinton "negotiated" based on the Democratic model (appease the bullies, maybe they won't beat me up).

Q: "WHat's that whirring noise I'm hearing?"

A: "That's just South Korea, screwing the last bolt in on the cover of their first A-Bomb."

It took North Korea 40 years to build its first nuclear weapon. It will take Japan & South Korea about 6 months. Tops. AFAIK Taiwan doesn't have any nuclear reactors (Japan has several) so it will take them a bit longer to gather the fissile materials but they'll be close behind.

Drudge reports:

"U.S. intelligence agencies say, based on preliminary indications, that North Korea did not produce its first nuclear blast yesterday, WASHINGTON TIMES star reporter Bill Gertz is set to report in Tuesday editions.

U.S. officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that seismic readings show that the conventional high explosives used to create a chain reaction in a plutonium-based device went off, but that the blast's readings were shy of a typical nuclear detonation.

'There was a seismic event that registered about 4 on the Richter scale, but it still isn't clear if it was a nuclear test. You can get that kind of seismic reading from high explosives.'

The underground explosion, which Pyongyang dubbed a historic nuclear test, is thought to have been the equivalent of several hundred tons of TNT, far short of the several thousand tons of TNT, or kilotons, that are signs of a nuclear blast, the official said. Developing..."

...just as I predicted.

Axis writes:
"Apparently there is, since North Korea is not going around using nukes as bully tools as Bush has, justifying the use of nuclear weapons as a viable option in an pre-emptive attack."

From: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,219121,00.html

"We hope the situation will be resolved before an unfortunate incident of us firing a nuclear missile comes," Yonhap quoted an unidentified North Korean official as saying. "That depends on how the U.S. will act."

Let's see,
Bully tool: Check!
Viable option in a pre-emptive attack: Check!

Frank writes:
"I see nothing has changed at B4B. Warboy bangs the drums of war and destruction, completely missing the dynamics that will preserve our world."

Are you getting this, Frank? It's not the US or Warrior that's been banging the war drum. It's been North Korea, all along; that's why they built the nuke? Or maybe it's too much anxiety to think about, even now, and you'd rather get us back into negotiations so we can give Il everything he asks for, again. Two years of Democrats controlling the House may lead to two or more nuclear craters in the US. If anybody thought the Democrats were serious players, Kerry would have been arrested for the threat he made; fortunately for him, no one takes him seriously.

All I can say is fuel up a few B-2 bombers, surround them with a dozen raptors, and test fire some bunker busting nukes. This is war.