I urge everyone to go look at the ongoing dialogue in the Trying of Terrorists thread below. It is on this exact topic.

Due process for detainees has nothing to do with political correctness.

Is that the next step - to redefine PC to include the protection of the Geneva conventions and the constitution? Good luck with that one.

Winnow - read the Geneva Conventions as regards to "Unlawful combatants" and try again. Military tribunals are legal for them. I hate to remind you, but Al-Qaeda is not an army for any nation, does not wear a recognized uniform, and does not even recognize the Geneva Conventions as applying to them or their prisoners. I would say Gitmo is worlds better than what a Western prisoner could expect from them.

If we become like our enemy and disregard our ethics and our commitment to justice than it is the enemy that has vanquished us.

Wade

Feel free to disagree. I'm not going to bother arguing. Point here being the issue has nothing to do with political correctness.

winnowhead - if you're not going to bother arguing, then stop arguing. You're wrong. Embrace it, make it be yours.

What kind of gibberish code is that - defeat "political correctness"? What is it that you mean by political correctness? You mean defeat the non-rednecks who don't want to kill all the towel heads? Are you guys going to start smearing John McCain, John Warner, Lindsey Graham and Colin Powell just like you do John Murtha?

Don't waste your time with minnowhead, Khan--he and his boyfriend DAV are mind-controlled robots who do the bidding of the DNC and our Islamofascist enemies.

Fellow GOP'ers, let us not forget that behind the four RINO's who are undermining our president, there are also 44 DemoCRAP, and one Independent, senators. The other side is hiding behind McLame, Goober Graham, Weiner-Warner, and Susan "one too many Tom" Collins.

There, kooks, you have four pseudo-Republicans, playing politics with the war on terror.

Down at Club Gitmo, the detainees get eight hours of uninterrupted sleep, at least two hours a day in the exercise yard, 4000+ calories a day, and no more than four hours a day of interrogation. Most get only two hours. Some of the interrogators bake them cookies, or get them food from McDonald's or Subway.

Some 400 detainees are represented by over 1000 lawyers, pro bono.

Also, the detainees get to pray their customary five times a day, sometimes even interrupting interrogations for prayer.

So, where's all the torture? All I can say is if I ever decide to pursue a life of crime, I'm gonna become a terrorist, and get caught so's I can go to Club Git'mo.

McLame wants to be president--I say we destroy this asshole in the '08 primaries...

Of course its not about National Security!

Its about making sure we dont hwurt anyone's weee wittle fweelings.

Also, its about.....anyone who is an enemy of our President, is a friend of ours! That is why they defend the rights of terrorists!

President Bush gave a great news conference today. God bless our brave troops and God bless President George W. Bush, the greatest president in american history. We will never forget 9/11.

This is a very worth while debate to have on how we wish to treat prisoners of war and which interrgoation methods are acceptable and which ones are not when trying to stop a very lethal and very determined enemy. Free societies, such as ours, cna have these debates and in the long run hopefully we will be better for it.

Our enemies do not seem to be able to have these debates. Until they are able to do major introspection, I don't see that we really have a partner for peace.

It is good that we are having this debate. I hope we can reach an agreement on the treatment of detainees that will be good for American national security that everyone can live with.

What kind of gibberish code is that - defeat "political correctness"?

It's a talking point. You know, a pointless phrase to be repeated endlessly in lieu of any sort of convincing argument.

One of our ideals that I believe that we are fighting for in the War on Terror is the ideal that we treat all people, regardless of who or what they are, with dignity and respect for their humanity.

If we stop fighting for our ideals, then what are we fighting for in the first place?

You realize that the outcome of this will implicitly set the standard for out soldiers if they become P.O.W.'s. If bush gets torture and kangaroo courts for gitmo detainees we can expect the same for our soldiers in Iran whenever bush decides to invade.

Just in case anyone has forgotten:

For the Democrats, it's not about political correctness.
It's not about defeating terrorism.
It's not about national security.
It's not about supporting our troops.
It's not about the rule of law.
It's not about the treatment of terrorists who've been apprehended on the battlefield or anywhere else.

It's all about how to claw their way back into the seat of power - nothing more, nothing less.
It's all about destroying George Bush politically and driving him and all Republicans from power. They will stop at nothing to achieve that end, including siding with terrorists or using tools like Senators McCain, Graham, Allen and Collins to advance their lust for a return to power. Sadly, the RINO Senators probably believe that they are acting out of principle, even as they are being played like a fiddle by the cynical, soulless libs.

Senator McCain continues to ingratiate himself to the D.C. crowd and the LameStream Media in the hopes that it will help to cause momentum for him going into the 2008 election cycle. Senators Allen and Graham seem to be trekking down a similar path for similar reasons. They need to be shunned by their Conservative Republican associates in the Senate and in the House. These so-called "moderates" are singularly responsible for destroying the conservative coalition that helped to bring the Republican party into power in 2000. Voters who are truly conservative have been betrayed by the likes of that dweeb Lincoln Chafee, Olympia Snow and the other libs in Republican clothing that continue to mentally masturbate themselves into false concerns and phantom fears of the real conservatives who are attempting to protect this country.

The Supreme Court has caused this controversy by injecting itself as the Commander-In-Chief-By-Proxy and dictating terms of treatment in a time of war. They should not have done so. But having done so, their actions are having the effect of painting the President (and our military) into a corner where their efforts to protect and defend this country will be neutered. The President is going along with the Supreme Court's ruling because he believes in the rule of law. He's attempting to legislate his way out of this dilemma, but if he thinks for one second that he can count on help from the John McCains of the political establishment, he's sorely mistaken.

Once this attempt to clarify the "approved techniques" falls apart, he'll be firmly painted into a corner. It will fall apart, because Senators Graham, McCain and Allen are more interested in future political opportunities than with the present exegencies of war. Despite what the MSM is trying to convince us, there is NO "Republican Rebellion" at work here. It's the Dems doing the same-old, same-old as they've done since January 20, 2001 - dig in their heels, oppose every piece of legislation, obfuscate every issue, and dream of a day when they are once again in power. In the meantime, the rest of the country can go straight to hell for all they care. In this instance, they've been joined by a small cadre of narcissistic Senators who are somehow convinced that they a truly great leaders. They are pathetic!

The solution for the President: Don't take enemy prisoners. Don't incarcerate any of the "leaders" of the terrorist groups when you find them. Blindfold them. Tie them to a pole. Shoot them dead on the spot. Don't bother with military tribunals except to document the conditions surrounding their capture and to process them into the great beyond with efficiency and finality. Do it humanely. Do it without compunction. Just do it!

In the meantime, every voter across America needs to take the opportunity to contact their Representatives on this issue and insist - nay demand - that these out-of-touch whoring politicians be called to the carpet for their efforts to convey rights to the terrorists where none exists.

Drive the RINOs from power by electing true Conservatives whenever the occasion presents itself. With "friends" like Senators Graham, McCain, Chafee, Allen, DeWine and Snowe, who needs enemas - err - enemies?!

Defeat liberalism. Defeat RINO'ism. Defeat political correctness, and defeat the Islamofascists who thrive on the aforementioned weaknesses in our political system.

I'm heartened to hear the President's Press Conference today. He's come out swinging - as he should have done years ago. He needs to bring that passion and depth of commitment to the American people. Unlike the Congress, we will not fail him, because we understand him, and he understands us. Too bad the do-nothing Dems and the "Wannabe Top Dog" RINOs like John McCain, George Allen and Lindsay Graham can't see the forest because of all those trees they keep bumping into in their search for the holy grail that would lead them to the throne of power...

Wow, nice post dbogdan.

My question is, if what we're doing is wrong. What should we be doing? Do we question people we capture on the battlefield? If so how do we do it? Should we detain them? If not what do we do with folks we find in the field? Just shoot them and be done with it? I know we've been accused of wanting to do that.

So please enlighten us as to what the alternative should be.

dbogdan said,

"Don't incarcerate any of the "leaders" of the terrorist groups when you find them. Blindfold them. Tie them to a pole. Shoot them dead on the spot."

Great, thanks dude. Very helpful. That has to be one of the most thoroughly un-American things I have ever read in this forum.

The problem I see with what the white house has asked for has to do more with being able to try, convict, and maybe execute someone without letting them see what evidence you have against them. To me that seems to go against most of what this country was founded on and fought to protect. Let's not forget that all of these laws and powers can be used against citizens of the US. From what I've read, it would also give the president the power to decide who is an "enemy combatant". Once again would you trust a democratic president with that same power?

Nancy Pelosi: Despicable along with the rest of her party.

dbogdan said,

"Don't incarcerate any of the "leaders" of the terrorist groups when you find them. Blindfold them. Tie them to a pole. Shoot them dead on the spot."

Great, thanks dude. Very helpful. That has to be one of the most thoroughly un-American things I have ever read in this forum.

So sorry, Nate, for offending your political sensibilities. What I really REALLY meant to say was...

Don't incarcerate any of the "leaders" of the terrorist groups when you find them. Invite them over for a cup of tea and scones. Discuss why they are the victims of a sad and deprived childhood and just need to "express" themselves. Then go through a list (I'm sure you have one handy, Nate) of why America sucks, and why we deserve to die. After all, we are just boorish, selfish, overbearing, fat, lazy, scumsucking infidels and all... We really deserve to be hit and hit hard until our cities are decimated and lying in ruins because we aren't sitting around staring at our navels, holding hands with poor lil' Mohammad and softly singing Kum-ba-yah...

I couldn't care less about what you think about my postings, just as I couldn't care less about why these madmen in turbans want to worship the cult of death over life. Since they seem so eager to become martyrs, I just feel that we ought to help them along to those presumed 72 virgins and all... just trying to kill two birds with one stone. That way, we certainly wouldn't be "torturing" them, would we? The quisling Senators without spines like McCain, Graham, and Allen could still pursue their political ambitions and the libs could lie down with them in open, instead of scurrying around in the back halls like they are currently doing...

I sure hope that meets with your better-than-thou expectations... cuz you know, I certainly wouldn't want to make anyone feel "uncomfortable..." because of political incorrectness...

How can anyone object to the President on this? The lefties say - he's out of control! Congress wants control.

OK - so ..... tell us what the rules are. Bush is saying he's not allowing what may or may not be illegal questioning to go forward without the Congress of the United States telling him what the rules are.

So Congress - tell us the freakin' rules. That's YOUR job, remember? Congress, make laws, Courts apply and interpret laws, Executive execute laws.

Kahn says, "So Congress - tell us the freakin' rules. That's YOUR job, remember?"

I agree. One way or another, the administration and the military needs and deserves to have these issues decided as a matter of American law, instead of having to interpret an international treaty that seems to be used as a political tool more often than as an instrument of justice.

And my disagreements with the president aside, I am very relieved that this issue is largely in the hands of the republicans right now. I don't trust the democrats to strike a healthy balance any more than I trust the CIA.

dbogdan,

Your clarification helps, and I'm not being sarcastic. I see where you're coming from, but I must disagree with your characterization of McCain as spineless. He takes a lot of shiite from both parties over his stances, but his stances have always been very consistent.

Are you guys going to start smearing John McCain, John Warner, Lindsey Graham and Colin Powell just like you do John Murtha?

Damn right--they deserve it almost as much as Jackoff Murtha does.

Great, thanks dude. Very helpful. That has to be one of the most thoroughly un-American things I have ever read in this forum.

Oh, really, Gnat? Have you read some of the comments by your latte-lapping cohorts in this thread? You pansies want to give these animals Big Macs and cookies, right after they've doused you with a body-fluid cocktail?

BTW, I left a point out of my earlier post: These detainees that you pansies pity so much have formed cells at Git'mo--terrorist cells. They monitor staff movements and plan attacks, even while locked up. How do they communicate, you ask? Their lawyers provide them with envelopes, intended for client/lawyer communication, which is confidential. Your buddies are using these envelopes to pass messages between one another, invoking a false "lawyer/client priveledge."

If bush gets torture and kangaroo courts for gitmo detainees we can expect the same for our soldiers in Iran whenever bush decides to invade.

My God, ray, are you an idiot, or what? Do you really believe if we invaded Iran, and any of our troops were captured, that they'd not have their heads lopped off? I'd bet you dollars to doughnuts that Iran soes not subscribe to the Geneva Conventions. Also, ray, do you recall what happened to two of our finest who were captured about two months ago. They were TORTURED, and then their bodies were SLICED AND DICED by their kidnappers.

Why don't you moonbat assholes think about what they do to us, and how well they're treated when we capture them?

Nate, screw you and the rest of the un-American, latte-lapping, lily-livered trolls who blame their own country. You people make me sick; I'd spit in your face if I could.

Great post, dbogdan--aren't these pansies sickening?

Look on the bright side, at least America Has the “Moral High Ground” Now

Wade, Frawg,

RE: "If we become like our enemy and disregard our ethics and our commitment to justice than it is the enemy that has vanquished us."

If we all become or act like a bunch of weak and spineless liberal Democrats, the enemy will destroy us!!!

We will be relegated to that third rate nation liberals seek so they can make America equal with the rest of the world (like France). Part of the Liberal strategy is equality for all... equality created by weakening the strong rather than strengthening the weak!

Nate,

RE: "That has to be one of the most thoroughly un-American things I have ever read in this forum."

Looks like we have a big disagreement on what's un-American. I think the liberal Democrats' support for terrorist's pseudo-rights at the expense of Americans safety and American's lives is the most un-American thing ever!!! Get out of your ivory tower and see what real American's think about the rights of terrorists.

I wouldn't suggest we tie them to a pole and shoot them. I wouldn't be taking them prisoner in the first place. They would be shot during the battle... or escaping from it! And if America needs information from them, I would have troops from other nations (with effective interrogation techniques) along side out troops and allow them to make the capture and interrogate the terrorists for the information we need to protect America, Americans, and America's troops!

The last thing I would do is capture terrorists and turn them over to the ACLU and the American court system so the ACLU can coddle and protect "their" rights (using our tax dollars), along with the other criminals (while they fight to remove crosses and Christmas America)! You notice I don't call it the "justice" system, because it ceased to be that years ago.

It's time more real Americans start telling it like it is. The more who hear it, the more who will think it!

RE: "...McCain as spineless."

No, I would have harsher words than that. If it weren't for the fact that McCain's Republican status helps with Republican control of the Senate, I would throw him out of the Republican party. If Republicans lose control of the Senate, I would dump him and support another Republican to challenge him. He is and has been more of a hindrance and nuisance than a help.

If Liberals want McCain, then take him. I have no use for his positions on 99% of the issues. Each time I respond to a poll of people I consider totally unacceptable for president, I put McCain at the top of the list. I've expressed that opinion in e-mails to Senator Frist and other members of Congress. If McCain somehow gets the Republican presidential nomination, then I'll have to vote for a write in candidate before I vote for McCain or Hillary; although, it's six of one and a half dozen of the other between those two!

dbogdan, keefer,

RE: "Great post, dbogdan--aren't these pansies sickening?"

Ditto!!! Liberals are weak willed, weak minded, and weaken everything they touch!

We need more Americans to say it in plain English so the terrorist-criminal-hugging Liberals can understand and get the message!

AAR

Dissent in the Republican ranks, gotta love it. I guess Americans need to FEAR you Republicans now too since you are claiming a need to fear democrats who want the exact same thing

Or is it ok for these Senators, because they were for the war before they were against it? LOL

Senators jumping ship at the last moment after helping steer it into the rocks. Things are falling apart and you are getting desperate, I love the smell of Republican defeat in the morning.

Remember the old saying (Bush), "fool me once, shame on you, fool... er, ah, you can't get fooled again"

Remember the old saying (Bush), "fool me once, shame on you, fool... er, ah, you can't get fooled again"

Remeber the popular saying, "Axass, come back to bed--CO and I(Canuckgay) miss you!!!"

AAR -

Are you basically saying that there's no need for the U.S. to be quite so scrupulous in its war conduct, as long as our enemies are nasty enough?

dbogdan, keefer... Well said!!

Keefer says,

"Nate, screw you and the rest of the un-American, latte-lapping, lily-livered trolls who blame their own country. You people make me sick; I'd spit in your face if I could."

Ahh, a strong, logical argument sir! So then, was America mistaken in trying to uphold its strict principles of war conduct during World War II as well? Should we have adapted our principles to bring them more in line with the Japanese?

Nate. I think we should just kill them all and take NO prisoners. Prisoners = problems. No prisoners = no problems.

Kahn says, "Nate. I think we should just kill them all and take NO prisoners. Prisoners = problems. No prisoners = no problems."

I understand, but how does that work on the battlefield? Should our soldiers be instructed to shoot enemy soldiers even if they are surrendering? If suspected insurgents are arrested in a house, do you want American soldiers to line them up outside and execute them?

During the first Gulf War, there were Iraqi soldiers abandoning their posts in droves to surrender to American forces. Should the Americans have killed those men too, or perhaps executed them at the prisoner camps?

Nate, ah the leap from uniformed soldiers of a nation to un-uniformed terrorists. I see that in your eyes there is no distinction - not even among our own men and women.

How do the terrorists deal with American soldiers when they take them? The disembowl them (FYI). I say, OK - same for them. No quarter.

Kahn,

You have dodged my questions. Let me repeat this one in particular:

If suspected insurgents are arrested in a house, do you want American soldiers to line them up outside and execute them?

No. They go into each room blasting them first with grenades. No "arrest". You don't "arrest" soldiers.

Kahn,

You have dodged my question again.

You just accused me of making a "leap from uniformed soldiers of a nation to un-uniformed terrorists", but that's exactly what you're doing here. Insurgents are clearly not soldiers by your own definition, and that's the whole point of my questions to you.

-"They go into each room blasting them first with grenades."

What? Are you in middle school? American forces don't ususally use frag grenades to initiate room sweeps, for obvious reasons. The explosion announces your presence to other rooms and houses in the area, and more importanly, there might be someone in the room you don't want to kill, like, oh I don't know, children and hostages. Like, duh, right?

So let me make this REAL simple since you are being so slippery: When American soldiers take un-uniformed insurgent into custody, WHICH MUST HAPPEN SOMETIMES, do you want the soldiers to execute them?