Need Iran done? —the major combat ops won’t take much more than a month, then we can leave or dilly daddle around with democratizing the joint for a few years.

Hmmm, this sounds strangely familiar ---- where have I heard this type of talk before? Yes, just what this country needs: more "joints" to "democratize." What a fool.

Nice. :-)

maf - have you ever been a soldier? If not, what is your expertise? Or are you just trolling?

Yes, it is quite clear from maf that many, if not most of the left have nothing but contempt for those who are willing to lay their lives on the line for them.

Does Rich Lowry know anything about soldiering? I don't recall him ever enlisting, maybe he needs an education, too.

By the way, kjstrouble: you suggest that being a soldier is necessary to be an expert on war. That's interesting, since neither Bush nor Cheney have any soldiering experience. Neither do prominent conservative pundits such as Rich Lowry, Bill Kristol, Jonah Goldberg. Nor do loudmouth ranters such as Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh. By your logic, shouldn't they all just shut up about the Iraq War, since they weren't soldiers and have no training in this? That would be nice, wouldn't it?

Snark aside, its important to separated soldiering/ fighting wars with policing/ building democracies. Our military is quite good at fighting wars, but they are not so good at building democracies. Stable countries are built from within and are most helped from the outside by political and diplomatic efforts, not military might.

Oh, and this soldier ‘gets’ it? What alternative reality is he living in?

Steve,

Lowry didn't write that - it was a soldier who sent him an e mail...and any of us who have spent time in the military instantly recognised it...we understand it because we were like that, too...and you lie about President Bush, who has military experience; he would recognise it, too....so, differently, would John Kerry...he'd recognise it, and then understand that he's cut himself off from that brotherhood.

I was asking what other expertize maf might have if he had not been a soldier? I am not an expert, and would not dream of telling a soldier or general how to fight. But I do have an international studies education, and a grasp of history, so I do often put my two cents worth in on those areas.

Do you have education or experience in military matters or military history? Do you understand the rationals the generals use? Do you have advisors to explain this to you? And Bush was in the military, so he would have gotten some education in that area. Plus he has access to generals and other military advisors.

kj,

maf isn't old enough or mature enough to be a soldier. He/she/it (circle one) is just trolling.

The only soldiers who complain about the war are those who joined for the free bennies--education, bonuses, etc. When I joined, back in 1976, I needed a job, a purpose in life, if you will. I stayed in for 20 years because, to me, it was a good life.

The guys and gals who join today know full well what they are getting into. The stakes are much higher today than they were when I joined. We were in a cold war then; we're fightin' a "hot" war today.

Mark, this soldier's letter was compelling indeed, and for dumbarses such as maf to impugn it is disgusting indeed.

That's right, maf, you're a disgusting dumbarse. Don't like it? Give me a call, and we can arrange a meeting so's we can air out our differences. The only fear between us is atmosphere...

"if not most of the left have nothing but contempt for those who are willing to lay their lives on the line for them".

You're absolutely right. Bill Clinton once said "I loathe the military". Coming from a former COF, that says it all.

Last week, I invited a recruiter for the Navy to sit down at our table for lunch (he was dining alone). We had an interesting chat. I asked him about his recruiting numbers and he said they were very high. In fact, he was signing up the restaurant owner's niece that day. He also said he had been to Iraq twice and described how the Iraqi people were wonderful to him and were glad we were there.

If you get all your news about Iraq solely from the MSM and not from the horses' mouths, you'll never learn the truth.

God bless all of our wonderful and brave troops.

I'm a soldier(no longer active), but a soldier none the less. Maf, Willem, the major difference between a soldier and.... you, is that no matter what the challenge or hard descision, we are up to the task, we WILL get it done!!! You on the other hand are.....full of hot air! You talk the talk very well, when it comes to walking it though, or making it happen, you crawl into your holes and wimper about how hard it is or what the repricussions may be or how horrible getting there is! I don't understand how you dumb MFer's get anything accomplished in your lives!!!!

Just a reminder fellow soldiers and Americans, NOT A SINGLE DAMN LIBERAL posted there sympathy or condolensces over on LEOs thread for that fallen soldier! NUFF SAID!

This string just illustrates the point I've been making for months about the major mistake the liberals are making in not serving.

It is already evident in the liberal posts here that they don't get the military (the actual subject of the thread I believe). They understand soldiers. They would never be one. And soon, they will be completely unfit to govern.

By the way, don't know what happened but posting has been much better lately - thanks.

Oh, and this soldier ‘gets’ it? What alternative reality is he living in?

Is this the best you came come up with, Willemena?
You've got to stay out of those hash houses and shooting galleries over there in Amsterdam, you puss. Don't worry, boy--once the Islamofascists completely destroy your continent, they'll behead you and the rest of the dopers.

Europe is lost folks. To steal a quote from the plagerizer, Joe Biden, "You can't walk into a kebab shop without a slight Arabic accent."

Actually, "Plugs" Biden said "You can't walk into a Dunkin Donuts without a slight Indian accent," but you get the point.

Don'cha, Willemena? You're a girly man; I wish I could meet you, face-to-face. Give me your cell number, and we'll arrange it. You leftists make me sick, especially you European leftists...

Mark: "Got in to a squabble over the troops on an earlier thread"

I don't suppose that was
the same thread I got shut out of, would it?

You on the other hand are.....full of hot air!
Bearman, that hot air they're full of sure does smell bad--are you sure it's just hot air? It may be their brains I smell.

Oh boy, Rico's here--there goes the collective troll IQ--into the crapper...

lffgls, I don't care what anyone else says -- you look great in that cheerleading outfit. Don't let anyone tell you different.

By the way, how am I doing on my spelling?

We’re good at conventional wars; massive air campaigns, tank battles between large opposing forces. We’re not good at fighting counter-insurgencies. We weren’t able to win one forty years ago and so far we don’t seem able to win the one we’re currently fighting.

Like Bearman, I too am a soldier (no longer active). Once a soldier, always a soldier.

You lefties that feel you owe soldiers nothing are wrong. Without soldiers to protect and defend it, the Constitution is just another piece of paper.

Like Bearman, I too am a soldier (no longer active). Once a soldier, always a soldier.

You lefties that feel you owe soldiers nothing are wrong. Without soldiers to protect and defend it, the Constitution is just another piece of paper.

Lew, they will never ever understand! If they don't get it yet(after 9/11) they absolutely never will! They have convinced themselves that the conspiracy world which they live in is reality! Sad thing is, they have no solution & they lack the balls to do anything about it! They talk, talk, talk, then fall flat on there faces. The sh..s going to hit the fan sooner rather than later and all I see for them is a 3 year old sitting in the middle of a big empty room crying, soaked in urine and crap and not being able to do a damn thing about it! Pleasant thoughts aren't they, NOT!

Keefer, the brain matter burned up long ago with there utter hatred for Bush & Christians in general!

Bearman, I agree. I have been trying to tell them that kumbaya doesn't have a translation in the terrorists language, but they just won't listen.

Liberals have been trying this talk, talk, talk nonsense for ages. All it has ever gotten us is an even bloodier war than we would have had.

Then again, since they won't fight them and we have to, what do they care?

Ricorun,

We'd never dream of shutting you out - but do keep in mind that Matt and I have some other things we have to do...so, some things might fall through the cracks.

Everybody who thinks that the US Army can not loose cause it is supposed to be the biggest force? Take a look at history and be concerned, very concerned.

Start with Darius and the battle of Marathon in the Greco-Persian Wars and then read about Hannibal and the Second Punic War. The Persians and Carthaginians (Punici) both had very skilled armies and used ‘state-of-the-art’ technology for their time and won virtually any battle they engaged in. But in the end, both lost stunning defeats against enemies they thought were inferior in power and strength due to their resilience.
The Roman empire was thought to be invincible at the time but was nonetheless invaded by the Huns, the Goths and other barbaric groups signaling the end

In more recent history, look at the colonial wars in Asia and Africa; look at the Viet Nam War. All lost by the supposedly much stronger superpowers.

Oh, and tough bear, why didn't I comment at Leo's post? Because I found it highly inappropiate, solliciting personal sympathy for the death of a soldier he didn't personally know. Plus did you see that counter on his website where he is making fun of the death of babies and children?

I wasn't particularly overwhelmed by the support of sympathy of right-wingers on his post either. At least not after your second post at that thread where you explicitely politicised that post into a leftwing-rightwing issue. I hope even rightwingers were appalled by your behaviour and refused to comment after that.

To take it back a bit on things I read this week on various blogs, in particular some uber left, I hate Bush, ones.

This pertains to the military and 9/11.

I grew up in NYC and watched the towers being built over the years, (it was pretty cool by the way) so all in all being from NYC my family is spread out all over the place, cops, firemen, traders, office workers, electricians and on and on. You see where I'm going with this, so yes my family was involved, three of them went in that direction when everyone else was headed anywhere else. One of them a fireman didn't come back out, another, an electrician, spent the next three days passing buckets of debris out and then there's my son. NY National Guard, who along with so many other young men and women took up arms in defense of America that day. They stood guard over fellow Americans that chose not to die in flames until in the chaos someone could decide what to do. They responded to every imagined threat, and if you remember there were plenty more that day in NY. They stood guard all over NY, in the subways, airports, museums, any place that might have been of interest they used their bodies/presence as a deterrent.

Then after the imminent threat they scattered all over NY to all the power plants, water, nuclear, facilities and many have since served overseas.

Plus there were many others that responded from all over America and came to NYC.

So what's my point? This week the rage in many blogs, particularly the NY based ones are about the right wing blogs having the nerve to use the memory of 9/11 for their own purposes when in their reality it's "only" New Yorker's who can claim that particular memory as their own and since 67% on NY'ers voted for Kerry everyone else should just shut the hell up.

Now mind you I didn't elaborate much family info in any contradictory posts but I did point out that much of the National Guard that responded really did give almost everyone a sense of security throughout the city in the months afterward came from parts of NY that voted differently and I felt that on that day we were all NY'ers to some degree.

So I felt pretty solid in pointing out that no I didn't feel any more "ownership" of the pain or tragedy than perhaps the woman in Iowa that they had shredded or the people from elsewhere that they had done the same to.

I was of course shredded as I knew I would be but then I'm not that bright since I do post non-conformist ideas on blogs such as those.

Does this make sense to anyone but me?

Willem, that's about as weak an excuse as I have ever heard! Did you hear that guys? Willem didn't post sympathies for our dead hero's, cause he doesn't like Leo! Sounds like that same desperate hate for Bush that's driving you will.

P.S. I've only been to leo's site once briefly, but as memory serves the counter was for terrorists, was it not Leo?

Willem, I like you less and less all the time(not that you give a crap), but our soldiers serve for the likes of you as well, so be it!!!

Everybody who thinks that the US Army can not loose cause it is supposed to be the biggest force? Take a look at history and be concerned, very concerned.

says willem

We know you want us to lose Willem, but without you to take has-been OBL's place, I don't think it will happen!

I wasn't particularly overwhelmed by the support of sympathy of right-wingers on his post either. At least not after your second post at that thread where you explicitely politicised that post into a leftwing-rightwing issue. I hope even rightwingers were appalled by your behaviour and refused to comment after that.

Posted by: Willem van Oranje at September 15, 2006 11:56 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Truth hurts doesn't it willy! There are two excuses now, are you going to go for the magic number 3!

look at the Viet Nam War. All lost by the supposedly much stronger superpowers.

Really? Please explain why we never lost a single significant battle in Viet Nam.

That war was lost in the Streets of America, thanks to the anti-war left and their mamby-pamby whining.

Every leader of North Viet Nam that has been asked has said the anti-war left was "essential to their victory."

I commented on another thread that orange is just a short step from yellow. I have to include oranje in that analysis.

If you were threatened by a bomb-toting radical, who would you turn to for protection? One of our highly trained, professional, dedicated, courageous military volunteers, or one of the sniveling appeasement-minded anti-military whiners who constantly put down the very people who keep them safe?

Exactly. I would never count on Willie or maf to watch my back. Stab it maybe, but not take care of me.

I'm in an industry which is extremely dangerous. I work with heavy equipment, farming equipment, guns, and very large unpredictable animals. So though I am not a soldier, I do understand the soldier mentality when it comes to knowing that you absolutely HAVE to surround yourself with competent, rational, dependable people. I cannot and will not tolerate the silly. If I am working with a stallion or a bull, the last person I need around me is a Jar-Jar Binks type, flapping his gums about all he knows and not capable of actually doing anything. If I were to have a problem while operating a tractor or a backhoe, I know I would have to be able to depend on those around me to help me out, and quite honestly when I read the silly, simpering, illogical, self-congratulatory idiocy that passes for political commentary posted here by the Lefties I know that I would run any one of them off my ranch in a heartbeat, just for being so damned goofy. "Useless" is the word that comes to mind.

And I'm pretty sure a soldier would have the same reaction.

And then the silly twits would huddle in someone's mom's basement and high-five each other and brag about how they cleaned my clock, really showed me a thing or two.

There are reasonable rational Democrats who could lead this country, even though I might not like some of the positions they might take. But the idea of any of these vapid simpering uber-Lefties having any authority whatsoever is truly frightening.

The neorads have been whining for years about how Karl Rove is really the man behind the President. Just imagine the power behind the presidency being Ranty Rhodes!!!