Much has been said over the past five years of the place of religion in our War on Terrorism. Clearly, our enemies are using a religion as the ideological underpinning of their actions. People can dispute endlessly whether this is a perversion of Islam, or just its logical conclusion - but two things have bothered me about the whole issue:
1. People, especially in politics, seem afraid to grasp the issue of religion in this War on Terrorism and
2. Crtics of the war too easily give a "pox on both houses" curse, saying that all religions are apt to evil.
Pope Benedict XVI gave a fascinating talk in Germany on Tuesday - so fascinating, indeed, that this won't be the only article I write based upon what is in the talk. He grasps the issue of religion in the War:
In the seventh conversation...the emperor touches on the theme of the jihad. The emperor must have known that sura 2:256 reads: "There is no compulsion in religion." It is one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under [threat]. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Koran, concerning holy war.
Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels," he turns to his interlocutor somewhat brusquely with the central question on the relationship between religion and violence in general, in these words: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
The emperor goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God is not pleased by blood, and not acting reasonably ("syn logo") is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats.... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death...."
The decisive statement in this argument against violent conversion is this: Not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God's nature.
Everyone of faith knows this - Christian, Moslem, Jew; it doesn't matter. It is unreasonable to use violence to gain converts, and to act in an unreasonable manner is to automatically be acting in opposition to God's will. And yet our enemies claim to the Islamic religion, and are clearly using violence to advance their cause - which is allegedly to create a Moslem world. What are we to do?
Walk carefully, but be unafraid. We don't want to give offense, but we also must call things as they are. Our enemies are professed Moslems who use violence in an attempt to impose a fascist-style Islamic political regime. If some Moslems are offended because we use the term "Islamo-fascist", then there is nothing we can do about that - we must accurately describe who we are fighting against, and it is up to Moslems who are not fascist to demonstrate by words and deeds that Islam is on the side of genuine faith and reason in this War on Terrorism.
To say that faith causes war is as silly as saying that guns cause violence - wicked people will use whatever tools come to hand to carry out their evil deeds, and it is only in the use by a human that a thing becomes good or evil. Faith used by a man to feed the hungryis a good thing; faith used by a man to justify murder is a bad thing. We can't ignore the reality of our times - faith is being used by wicked men for evil deeds; but just as when faced with a criminal we seek to take away the pistol in his hand, rather than damning all pistols, so we must take faith away from the wicked men who are using it for evil.
Posted by Mark Noonan at September 14, 2006 11:07 AM
Comments
Mark
You can not take away someones faith the way you can take away a gun. With that said, the conclusion to your post is a fairly unreasonable proposal. I don't think the Pope intended his speech to be used as further grievance in the current conflict.
More likely, the speech included a deeper message to be heard. "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul." When you criticize the Democrats for "diplomacy", and praise Bush for action(declaring war), is that position compatible with the nature of god?
Violence breeds violence, if our enemy is as unreasonable as you believe them to be, you can conclude they will not be the ones to end this cycle. If you can only see things from one side while claiming the high ground, you are as unreasonable as they are.
Posted by: James Harold at September 14, 2006 12:01 PM
James, Mark's point is spot on--
If the Islamic faith has been "hijacked" by these extemists to justify their bloody deeds, then it is incumbent upon Islamists to "take back their faith" and restore it to its original intent.
Great piece, Mark--
-Leo-
Posted by:
Psycmeistr at September 14, 2006 12:49 PM
James,
I have to agree with Mark and Leo. If those of the Moslem faith feel that the terrorists have hijacked their faith they need to stand up and denounce them. The silence from most Islamic leaders is deafening, if they disagree they are not saying so. We hear from those who agree, and so that is what is seen as the mainstream. Until men and women of courage within the Islamic community are willing to stand up and denounce the terrorists for the murderers that they are - the whole faith will be painted in the blood of the terrorists.
Posted by: kjstrouble at September 14, 2006 01:11 PM
I agree and I rarely agree with anything on this site. Our leaders refusal to portray the terrorists for what they are, Muslims (albeit extremists), is frustrating because the destruction of these people (terrorists, not Muslims) will come not only from military power but a change in attitude within the Muslim community.
Posted by: aric at September 14, 2006 02:32 PM
kjstrouble
I agree with what you are saying. I have seen on the net where they have done exactly that. However they do not always agree with you on who the terrorists are, Hezbollah for example. Leaders and common people alike have denounced terrorists.
I'm out of time for now, I'll get back to you on this.
Posted by: James Harold at September 14, 2006 02:48 PM
Hezbollah went across the border into Isreal, killed and kidnapped soldiers. They have sponsored suicide bombers going into Isreal. That to me defines them as terrorists, irregardless of other actions. Such actions by a member of a foreign government are grounds for war, as we saw. Hamas falls under the same heading.
Posted by: kjstrouble at September 14, 2006 04:03 PM
James,
No, violence isn't alive, James, it is just a thing like any other...and it is in how it is used that we judge the good and evil. The violence of a police officer shooting a man on a murder spree is good violence, and it begets no other violence. The way you phrase it is a moral abdication.
You've fallen in to the trap where you now worry about a "cycle of violence" rather than worrying about the evil men who instigate unjust violence. It is they, the evil men, who are the problem.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at September 14, 2006 04:26 PM
kjstrouble
I haven't seen any clear evidence regarding suicide bombers and Hezbollah, other than those in 1980's.
As for the cross border raids, both Israel and Hezbollah are guilty of that. For Israel this type of behavior dates back to the 1930's with the British backed "Night Squads".
I see Hamas as being more extreme than Hezbollah, but relative to the conditions that cause their behavior.
I would not say that terrorists have not been involved with Hezbollah, or Hamas. Remember Timothy McVeigh from the U.S. Army was thought to be a model soldier, until the Oklahoma City bombing. His actions do not make our country or military a terrorist group.
Aside from our opinions on Hezbollah or Hamas, as many in the Islamic community see it, Israel has brutally occupied their land, and these groups are the only real resistance to that occupation. The people in question, being asked to denounce terror, do not see these people as terrorists. To them and many others, support for either of the groups is not supporting terrorism any more than you or I supporting our troops, are supporting terrorism.
Al-Qaeda seems to be a real terrorist group, that fits the profile of those who want to kill us all. You can see the diference between resistance and terrorist. Most of the world is against Al-Qaeda, but only a select few countries consider Hezbollah as terrorists.
I'm not disagreeing with Islam being hijacked by terrorists, I'm pointing out those who are not considered to be terrorists. Insisting they denounce everyone Bush considers as terrorists, would be like them insisting you denounce Bush as one as well.
Posted by: James Harold at September 14, 2006 06:52 PM
James, are you calling Bush a terrorist? Do you not realize that he's illegally wiretapping your phones and computers, and when he becomes the supreme leader, he's gonna have your arrested and sent to Git'mo?
Watch what you say about the dear leader, son...
Posted by: keefer at September 14, 2006 07:23 PM
"Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God is not pleased by blood, and not acting reasonably ("syn logo") is contrary to God's nature."
Truth!
... And here's the thing, Everybody needs faith! but the only faith that will get you through this life into the next is faith in the one and Only God, that is according to the teachings of Jesus Christ! ...All the teachings of Jesus would be as follows:
Joy;kindness;Mercy;mourning;lament;comfort;
compassion; peace; sympathy; hymility; charity; prayer; courage; confession; repentance; fasting; healing; and one of the Greatest concerning Faith is Hope; confidence; conviction; and belief!!
Do the Islamo-fascists practice Jesus teachings?
No, they do not!!
Ok, Now, any other faith that does NOT follow the teachings of Jesus would be as follows:
Evil; judgement upon other Nations; death of all who do not follow their particular brand of occultism; curses; condemnation; tempting others into their brand of occultism; unbelief in the ONLY God of ALL creation; HATRED; hypocrisy; and apostasy ... Also, other names for the followers of violence - false teachers; idolatry; destruction of idols; demons; devil; serpent; evil spirits; false prophets; false worship; witchcraft; and antichrist.
Clearly. Faith and violence DO NOT mix!!
Faith based upon deeds of violence is WORTHLESS!!
... And the sad part about the whole thing...is, the democrats dismiss the actions by islamofascists, as if they never happened!!
Clearly. The democrats show a distinct difference in the two parties, in that, Democrats uphold terrorist actions, and we - the GOP; on the other hand, we find betterment in bringing them to justice in order to let the Christian people who have done no harm; go un-harmed, Praise God!!
Make no mistake ... As long as God has a say in the whole matter of Islamo-fascism, THEY WILL BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE FOR THEIR CRIMES.
...and one more thing, God will use the necessary resources that He has provided to George Bush to accomplish the goal of eradicating violence in the middles east.
America! Be THANKFUL for George W. Bush!
Jeremiah
Posted by: Jeremiah at September 14, 2006 08:04 PM
Pope Benedict XVI's speech on Islam and jihad is equivalent to a 9.0 earthquake!!!! Wow!!!!!! Good for Pope Benedict!!!!
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."-14th century Byzantine emperor.
Posted by: Freedom1 at September 14, 2006 09:21 PM
James, by your logic the Minute Men were terrorists. Lets get real. Tunnelling across a recognized international border, killing 8 and kidnapping 2 is an act of terrorism. Just because you say one group did it over 30 years ago, does not make it right now. As for Isreal - no they did not do it, the Irgun did. The Irgun were NOT part of a recognized government. Hezbollah is. See the difference
Posted by: kjstrouble at September 14, 2006 09:22 PM
Posted by: James Harold at September 14, 2006 06:52 PM
James Harold's post illustrates why the majority of the 1.2 billion Muslims of the world do not denounce Al Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Abu Sayaf, etc. as terrorists...because the majority of Muslims don't see them as terrorists. Why is that? Because Islam commands Muslims to wage war against all infidels until Islam rules the world and all infidels have either been: 1)converted to Islam, 2)subjugated and humiliated (Qur'an 9:29), or 3)killed.
The final words of Mohammed to his disciples:
“I was ordered to fight all men until they say, ‘There is no god but Allah.’”
Posted by: Freedom1 at September 14, 2006 09:54 PM
Cut-and-runners, terrorist appeasers, surrender monkeys, listen up! Islamic terrorists will still attack you!-
Al Qaeda Declares War on France
PARIS (AP)- Al-Qaida has for the first time announced a union with an Algerian insurgent group that has designated France as an enemy, saying they will act together against French and American interests.
Current and former French officials specializing in terrorism said Thursday that an al-Qaida alliance with the Salafist Group for Call and Combat, known by its French initials GSPC, was cause for concern.
Al-Qaida’s No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahri, announced the “blessed union” in a video posted this week on the Internet to mark the fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks in the United States.
France’s leader have repeatedly warned that the decision not to join the U.S.-led war in Iraq would not shield the country from Islamic terrorism. French participation in the U.N. peacekeeping mission in Lebanon could give extremists another reason to strike.
Posted by: Freedom1 at September 14, 2006 10:49 PM
Oh, I see. So when Bush says that America will stand down when the Iraqi (=muslim) Army stands up, he is essentially aiding and abetting the terrorist? Americans training Muslim soldiers so they can kill Americans more effectively? Is that what you're saying?
Posted by: Willem van Oranje at September 14, 2006 11:07 PM
"Is that what you're saying?" -Willem van Oranje
No. What I'm saying should be clear even to you, Willem. The terrorist appeasing, surrender monkeys of France just made Al-Qaeda's "Must Kill List" with a bullet. For the past 5 years since 9/11, when the Islamists say, "Jump!", France asks, "How high?" and falls all over itself catering to Muslim demands. France, which has vehemently opposed President Bush and America's foreign policy in the War on Terror and especially in Iraq, has now been targeted for termination by Muslims. Appeasing terrorists is an insane foreign policy and now France is reaping what it's sown. Bon chance, France!
"Oh, I see. So when Bush says that America will stand down when the Iraqi (=muslim) Army stands up, he is essentially aiding and abetting the terrorist?"-Willem van Oranje
No, little one. I know freedom and democracy are difficult concepts for you to understand, so I'll spell it out for you once more. Iraq was ruled by a cruel dictator (Saddam Hussein) and his tyrannical Baa'thist regime. (This was BAD!) America has militarily swept away Iraq's tyrannical government and in its place created freedom and democracy. (This is GOOD!) America trains the Iraqi Army to protect the Iraqi citizens (Muslims) from other Muslims-ie. Al Qaeda terrorists, Baa'thist insurgents, Iranian terrorists (still more Muslims), Jordanian and Pakistani terrorists (yet more Muslims) and anyone else who wants to destroy the freedom and democracy which is now present in Iraq. Iraq's democracy will most likely take years maybe decades to mature into a form which Westerners would find acceptable, but the democratic process has begun and is well underway! A free people who have hope for a prosperous and bright future are far, far less likely to attack the USA. Still with me, so far?
Furthermore, the long-term hope of the Bush doctrine of spreading freedom and democracy in the Middle East, is that one day the people of other Islamic nations who suffer under the tyranny of Islam and strict Sharia Law, will see the freedom that Iraqi Muslims have and will want that freedom for themselves. The hope is that these people (Muslims) will reform their own Islamic nations, throwing off the slavery of Islam and Islam's theocratic tyranny and embracing a democratic form of government. Got that?
Posted by: Freedom1 at September 15, 2006 03:59 AM
Freedom,
Thought you would appreciate this one.
It is important for us to remember that human beings are the way they are - they haven't changed in all of human history, not in the basics - and thus any attempt to inject a novelty in to human relations is bound to not only fail, but fail quite horrifically.
Regardless of what else, Mohammed did err when he made it so that spreading the faith by war was considered a good thing. As a Christian I naturally reject Mohammed's teaching, but I don't say that there is no truth in it - as far as Mohammed stuck to the eternal verities, he was ok - but when he strayed into novelty, he set the stage for some rather horrific events.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at September 15, 2006 04:26 AM
"Thought you would appreciate this one."-MN
Yep! I just about fell off my chair when I read what the Pope said about spreading Islam by the sword. Good job, Pope Benedict!
:)
I also understand and agree with your post, overall.(However, I do think Muhammad's Islam is Satanic.) But, this point you make-
"It is important for us to remember that human beings are the way they are - they haven't changed in all of human history, not in the basics -"-MN
-is especially good. This is also why I believe that with God's help, we can free many, many Muslims (perhaps whole Muslim nations) from the tyranny of Islam. Because people-all people-inherently want to be free. God designed us that way. President Bush's plan of spreading freedom and democracy in the Middle East recognizes this fact-that God gave us all free will and the desire to be free!
Posted by: Freedom1 at September 15, 2006 06:06 AM
"It is unreasonable to use violence to gain converts"
That is likely Bush's plan, Mark.
Posted by: SUSA at September 15, 2006 11:27 PM
"who use violence in an attempt to impose a fascist-style Islamic political regime"
Or use violence to impose a Democratic one, right Mark? Care to comment on that?
"wicked people will use whatever tools come to hand to carry out their evil deeds"
As the Republicans do.
"faith used by a man to justify murder is a bad thing."
As the Republicans use faith in untruths such as "Iraq is frontline on the war on terror", "Iraq is a threat to the United States", and "Iraq is has WMD" which are all faiths used to justify genocide, isn't that correct, Mark? And "say the course" which is the faith used to justify more and continuous murder. And the "War on Terror" which is the faith used to create more murder.
"We can't ignore the reality of our times - faith is being used by wicked men for evil deeds; but just as when faced with a criminal we seek to take away the pistol in his hand"
Your talking about President Bush and Republicans now, and the terrorists.
"so we must take faith away from the wicked men who are using it for evil."
So are you admitting that you Mark believe the War on Terror is yours and the Republicans, and Bush's Crusade to convert people to Christanity?
Posted by: SUSA at September 15, 2006 11:38 PM
Please report any inappropriate comments to abuse (at) blogsforbush (dot) com. Be sure to include the title of the blog entry, the name of the commenter, and the text of the offending comment.
Post a comment
Mark
You can not take away someones faith the way you can take away a gun. With that said, the conclusion to your post is a fairly unreasonable proposal. I don't think the Pope intended his speech to be used as further grievance in the current conflict.
More likely, the speech included a deeper message to be heard. "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul." When you criticize the Democrats for "diplomacy", and praise Bush for action(declaring war), is that position compatible with the nature of god?
Violence breeds violence, if our enemy is as unreasonable as you believe them to be, you can conclude they will not be the ones to end this cycle. If you can only see things from one side while claiming the high ground, you are as unreasonable as they are.
James, Mark's point is spot on--
If the Islamic faith has been "hijacked" by these extemists to justify their bloody deeds, then it is incumbent upon Islamists to "take back their faith" and restore it to its original intent.
Great piece, Mark--
-Leo-
James,
I have to agree with Mark and Leo. If those of the Moslem faith feel that the terrorists have hijacked their faith they need to stand up and denounce them. The silence from most Islamic leaders is deafening, if they disagree they are not saying so. We hear from those who agree, and so that is what is seen as the mainstream. Until men and women of courage within the Islamic community are willing to stand up and denounce the terrorists for the murderers that they are - the whole faith will be painted in the blood of the terrorists.
I agree and I rarely agree with anything on this site. Our leaders refusal to portray the terrorists for what they are, Muslims (albeit extremists), is frustrating because the destruction of these people (terrorists, not Muslims) will come not only from military power but a change in attitude within the Muslim community.
kjstrouble
I agree with what you are saying. I have seen on the net where they have done exactly that. However they do not always agree with you on who the terrorists are, Hezbollah for example. Leaders and common people alike have denounced terrorists.
I'm out of time for now, I'll get back to you on this.
Hezbollah went across the border into Isreal, killed and kidnapped soldiers. They have sponsored suicide bombers going into Isreal. That to me defines them as terrorists, irregardless of other actions. Such actions by a member of a foreign government are grounds for war, as we saw. Hamas falls under the same heading.
James,
No, violence isn't alive, James, it is just a thing like any other...and it is in how it is used that we judge the good and evil. The violence of a police officer shooting a man on a murder spree is good violence, and it begets no other violence. The way you phrase it is a moral abdication.
You've fallen in to the trap where you now worry about a "cycle of violence" rather than worrying about the evil men who instigate unjust violence. It is they, the evil men, who are the problem.
kjstrouble
I haven't seen any clear evidence regarding suicide bombers and Hezbollah, other than those in 1980's.
As for the cross border raids, both Israel and Hezbollah are guilty of that. For Israel this type of behavior dates back to the 1930's with the British backed "Night Squads".
I see Hamas as being more extreme than Hezbollah, but relative to the conditions that cause their behavior.
I would not say that terrorists have not been involved with Hezbollah, or Hamas. Remember Timothy McVeigh from the U.S. Army was thought to be a model soldier, until the Oklahoma City bombing. His actions do not make our country or military a terrorist group.
Aside from our opinions on Hezbollah or Hamas, as many in the Islamic community see it, Israel has brutally occupied their land, and these groups are the only real resistance to that occupation. The people in question, being asked to denounce terror, do not see these people as terrorists. To them and many others, support for either of the groups is not supporting terrorism any more than you or I supporting our troops, are supporting terrorism.
Al-Qaeda seems to be a real terrorist group, that fits the profile of those who want to kill us all. You can see the diference between resistance and terrorist. Most of the world is against Al-Qaeda, but only a select few countries consider Hezbollah as terrorists.
I'm not disagreeing with Islam being hijacked by terrorists, I'm pointing out those who are not considered to be terrorists. Insisting they denounce everyone Bush considers as terrorists, would be like them insisting you denounce Bush as one as well.
James, are you calling Bush a terrorist? Do you not realize that he's illegally wiretapping your phones and computers, and when he becomes the supreme leader, he's gonna have your arrested and sent to Git'mo?
Watch what you say about the dear leader, son...
"Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God is not pleased by blood, and not acting reasonably ("syn logo") is contrary to God's nature."
Truth!
... And here's the thing, Everybody needs faith! but the only faith that will get you through this life into the next is faith in the one and Only God, that is according to the teachings of Jesus Christ! ...All the teachings of Jesus would be as follows:
Joy;kindness;Mercy;mourning;lament;comfort;
compassion; peace; sympathy; hymility; charity; prayer; courage; confession; repentance; fasting; healing; and one of the Greatest concerning Faith is Hope; confidence; conviction; and belief!!
Do the Islamo-fascists practice Jesus teachings?
No, they do not!!
Ok, Now, any other faith that does NOT follow the teachings of Jesus would be as follows:
Evil; judgement upon other Nations; death of all who do not follow their particular brand of occultism; curses; condemnation; tempting others into their brand of occultism; unbelief in the ONLY God of ALL creation; HATRED; hypocrisy; and apostasy ... Also, other names for the followers of violence - false teachers; idolatry; destruction of idols; demons; devil; serpent; evil spirits; false prophets; false worship; witchcraft; and antichrist.
Clearly. Faith and violence DO NOT mix!!
Faith based upon deeds of violence is WORTHLESS!!
... And the sad part about the whole thing...is, the democrats dismiss the actions by islamofascists, as if they never happened!!
Clearly. The democrats show a distinct difference in the two parties, in that, Democrats uphold terrorist actions, and we - the GOP; on the other hand, we find betterment in bringing them to justice in order to let the Christian people who have done no harm; go un-harmed, Praise God!!
Make no mistake ... As long as God has a say in the whole matter of Islamo-fascism, THEY WILL BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE FOR THEIR CRIMES.
...and one more thing, God will use the necessary resources that He has provided to George Bush to accomplish the goal of eradicating violence in the middles east.
America! Be THANKFUL for George W. Bush!
Jeremiah
Pope Benedict XVI's speech on Islam and jihad is equivalent to a 9.0 earthquake!!!! Wow!!!!!! Good for Pope Benedict!!!!
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."-14th century Byzantine emperor.
James, by your logic the Minute Men were terrorists. Lets get real. Tunnelling across a recognized international border, killing 8 and kidnapping 2 is an act of terrorism. Just because you say one group did it over 30 years ago, does not make it right now. As for Isreal - no they did not do it, the Irgun did. The Irgun were NOT part of a recognized government. Hezbollah is. See the difference
Posted by: James Harold at September 14, 2006 06:52 PM
James Harold's post illustrates why the majority of the 1.2 billion Muslims of the world do not denounce Al Qaeda, Hizballah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Abu Sayaf, etc. as terrorists...because the majority of Muslims don't see them as terrorists. Why is that? Because Islam commands Muslims to wage war against all infidels until Islam rules the world and all infidels have either been: 1)converted to Islam, 2)subjugated and humiliated (Qur'an 9:29), or 3)killed.
The final words of Mohammed to his disciples:
“I was ordered to fight all men until they say, ‘There is no god but Allah.’”
Cut-and-runners, terrorist appeasers, surrender monkeys, listen up! Islamic terrorists will still attack you!-
Al Qaeda Declares War on France
Oh, I see. So when Bush says that America will stand down when the Iraqi (=muslim) Army stands up, he is essentially aiding and abetting the terrorist? Americans training Muslim soldiers so they can kill Americans more effectively? Is that what you're saying?
"Is that what you're saying?" -Willem van Oranje
No. What I'm saying should be clear even to you, Willem. The terrorist appeasing, surrender monkeys of France just made Al-Qaeda's "Must Kill List" with a bullet. For the past 5 years since 9/11, when the Islamists say, "Jump!", France asks, "How high?" and falls all over itself catering to Muslim demands. France, which has vehemently opposed President Bush and America's foreign policy in the War on Terror and especially in Iraq, has now been targeted for termination by Muslims. Appeasing terrorists is an insane foreign policy and now France is reaping what it's sown. Bon chance, France!
"Oh, I see. So when Bush says that America will stand down when the Iraqi (=muslim) Army stands up, he is essentially aiding and abetting the terrorist?"-Willem van Oranje
No, little one. I know freedom and democracy are difficult concepts for you to understand, so I'll spell it out for you once more. Iraq was ruled by a cruel dictator (Saddam Hussein) and his tyrannical Baa'thist regime. (This was BAD!) America has militarily swept away Iraq's tyrannical government and in its place created freedom and democracy. (This is GOOD!) America trains the Iraqi Army to protect the Iraqi citizens (Muslims) from other Muslims-ie. Al Qaeda terrorists, Baa'thist insurgents, Iranian terrorists (still more Muslims), Jordanian and Pakistani terrorists (yet more Muslims) and anyone else who wants to destroy the freedom and democracy which is now present in Iraq. Iraq's democracy will most likely take years maybe decades to mature into a form which Westerners would find acceptable, but the democratic process has begun and is well underway! A free people who have hope for a prosperous and bright future are far, far less likely to attack the USA. Still with me, so far?
Furthermore, the long-term hope of the Bush doctrine of spreading freedom and democracy in the Middle East, is that one day the people of other Islamic nations who suffer under the tyranny of Islam and strict Sharia Law, will see the freedom that Iraqi Muslims have and will want that freedom for themselves. The hope is that these people (Muslims) will reform their own Islamic nations, throwing off the slavery of Islam and Islam's theocratic tyranny and embracing a democratic form of government. Got that?
Freedom,
Thought you would appreciate this one.
It is important for us to remember that human beings are the way they are - they haven't changed in all of human history, not in the basics - and thus any attempt to inject a novelty in to human relations is bound to not only fail, but fail quite horrifically.
Regardless of what else, Mohammed did err when he made it so that spreading the faith by war was considered a good thing. As a Christian I naturally reject Mohammed's teaching, but I don't say that there is no truth in it - as far as Mohammed stuck to the eternal verities, he was ok - but when he strayed into novelty, he set the stage for some rather horrific events.
"Thought you would appreciate this one."-MN
Yep! I just about fell off my chair when I read what the Pope said about spreading Islam by the sword. Good job, Pope Benedict!
:)
I also understand and agree with your post, overall.(However, I do think Muhammad's Islam is Satanic.) But, this point you make-
"It is important for us to remember that human beings are the way they are - they haven't changed in all of human history, not in the basics -"-MN
-is especially good. This is also why I believe that with God's help, we can free many, many Muslims (perhaps whole Muslim nations) from the tyranny of Islam. Because people-all people-inherently want to be free. God designed us that way. President Bush's plan of spreading freedom and democracy in the Middle East recognizes this fact-that God gave us all free will and the desire to be free!
"It is unreasonable to use violence to gain converts"
That is likely Bush's plan, Mark.
"who use violence in an attempt to impose a fascist-style Islamic political regime"
Or use violence to impose a Democratic one, right Mark? Care to comment on that?
"wicked people will use whatever tools come to hand to carry out their evil deeds"
As the Republicans do.
"faith used by a man to justify murder is a bad thing."
As the Republicans use faith in untruths such as "Iraq is frontline on the war on terror", "Iraq is a threat to the United States", and "Iraq is has WMD" which are all faiths used to justify genocide, isn't that correct, Mark? And "say the course" which is the faith used to justify more and continuous murder. And the "War on Terror" which is the faith used to create more murder.
"We can't ignore the reality of our times - faith is being used by wicked men for evil deeds; but just as when faced with a criminal we seek to take away the pistol in his hand"
Your talking about President Bush and Republicans now, and the terrorists.
"so we must take faith away from the wicked men who are using it for evil."
So are you admitting that you Mark believe the War on Terror is yours and the Republicans, and Bush's Crusade to convert people to Christanity?