Over the past week or so, we've watched with disgust as France and the European Union have essentially declared themselves cowards. After promising to provide troops for a Lebanese peacekeeping force, someone in Europe took note of the fact that Hezbollah likes war, and so decided that its better not to risk an European army in a place where fighting might break out. For years I've been saying that Europe is dying - now I'm pronouncing it dead. Any society which cannot gin up the courage to face off with a few thousand terrorists is a dead society.
Mark Steyn has been taking note of the suicide of the west - lead by Europe - for some years now, and recently gave a talk in Australia on the subject:
“When life becomes an extended picnic, with nothing of importance to do,” writes Charles Murray in In Our Hands, “ideas of greatness become an irritant. Such is the nature of the Europe syndrome.” The Continent has embraced a spiritual death long before the demographic one. In those 17 Europeans countries which have fallen into “lowest-low fertility”, where are the children? In a way, you’re looking at them: the guy sipping espresso at a sidewalk café listening to his iPod. Free citizens of advanced western democracies are increasingly the world’s wrinkliest teenagers: the state makes the grown-up decisions and we spend our pocket money on our record collection. Hilaire Belloc, incidentally, foresaw this very clearly in his book The Servile State in 1912 – before teenagers or record collections had been invented. He understood that the long-term cost of a softened state is the infantilization of the population. The populations of wealthy democratic societies expect to be able to choose from dozens of breakfast cereals at the supermarket, thousands of movies at the video store, and millions of porn sites on the Internet, yet think it perfectly (ok) to demand that the state take care of their elderly parents and their young children while they’re working – to, in effect, surrender what most previous societies would have regarded as all the responsibilities of adulthood. It’s a curious inversion of citizenship to demand control over peripheral leisure activities but to contract out the big life-changing stuff to the government. And it’s hard to come up with a wake-up call for a society as dedicated as latterday Europe to the belief that life is about sleeping in.
I don't know for certain if it is as bleak as all that, though it is pretty bad. You see, I have a theory which, I think, only time will tell if I'm right about it.
You can have too much, or too little, of anything - in all matters, it is a very important thing to strike the right balance. Right now, in the Moslem world, religion is a bit overwhelming - it is so pervasive that the Moslem countries have a great deal of difficulty developing real virtue because enforced virtue (ie, making women wear the burka - that sort of thing) makes for morally weak people. People who would, you see, go along with strapping bombs on children. In direct contrast to this is Europe, where religion is in some ways acutally being made illegal - from the French demand that children wear no religious identifiers in school, to pastors being arrested for preaching Christian doctrine, religion is being kept very firmly in a subordinate place in European society. Too much religion and you get suicide bombers, too little religion and you get national suicide - and what do you get when you've got the right mix?
The United States of America.
Though America has strayed a bit into an officially anti-religious stance - especially in the courts - the strength of the American Constitution plus the courage of believers has ensured that religion remains strong, while the strength of that same Constitution plus the vigilance of genuine civil libertarians has ensured that religion cannot dictate policy. It is because we have this balance that we have neither become a senile, dying society like Europe, nor a smothering quasi-theorcratic dictatorship as most of the Moslem world has become.
My theory, then, is that the as long as the proportion of belivers exceeds 50% of the population, then you'll get both that faith necessary for strength and growth, as well as that dissidence necessary for a functioning, free society. Europe is dying - but the best estimate is that about 10% of Europe's population are still believers - and this doesn't count Moslems and other non-Christians. Most of Europe is tipping over in to negative population growth, but my bet is that those who are believers are not experiencing any such net decline in population. If I'm right, then about 50 years or so from now, the prorportion of believers in Europe will exceed 50% of the population, and Europe will then, once again, start living under policies which encourage faith and growth.
The will to live is not universal - it really only exists in those who have faith and hope - you have to believe, and hope that things will get better if you work hard and remain true to basic morality. The majority of Europe lost their faith, and thus lost their hope - and now they are about to lose everything...
Posted by Mark Noonan at August 26, 2006 10:59 AM
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After what Europe experienced in the last century, you would think they would be the first to stand against the same tryanny that enslaved them. Sadly, it isn't so. They seem to be first in line to appease and submit.
As far as I'm concerned, Europe died a long time ago, shortly after WW2 when they began repeating the same mistakes that led to WW2 in the first place.
Posted by:
Lew Waters at August 26, 2006 01:11 PM
The European Union have just sent 7,500 troops to the region. Shouldn't you have waited until you saw how many they were going to send before you printed this crap?
Posted by: Kel at August 26, 2006 02:33 PM
Mark
If any nation on this earth is in peril, it is the U.S. of A. Don't you understand that American policies and arrogrance, in relation to other countries occupying this globe, is almost universally scorned. Look to your own inadequacies before disparaging others.
Somehow there is a creepy movement afloat in some areas of the religious born-again fanatic fringe that the world needs to be populated by little sheep-like individuals running around declaring war on anything that moves. How pathetic, how very sad.
Europe is indeed alive & well and what I detect from your comments is nothing but pure jealousy.
Posted by: Canadian Observer at August 26, 2006 02:46 PM
Blinded Canuck,
Dude you are such a goof it is pathetic. Just where would Canada be if it did not have the good fortune of sitting atop, geographically speaking of course, the greatest nation in the history of the world? Where would Canada be without the ability to sell its goods and services to the largest consumer on the planet? Where would Canada be without the military protection of the strongest nation in the history of the world?
Jackoffs like you who constantly bite the hand that feeds it are outrageous in the extreme. Why don't we talk about the imperfections of your country?
How about Adscam? What about the gun registry? What about people DYING while waiting for government rationed healthcare? What about the MILLIONS of dollars literally stolen by the Grits in an attempt to retain power? What about the mass murderer in BC who buried all of those bodies at the pig farm? What about Air India? What about the lack of free speech in Quebec? What about the fact that Canada cannot protect its own borders or project its sovereingty to all of its frontiers? What about the Canadian Military's logistical inability to help its fellow Canadians in the event of a major disaster?
I could go on for hours. Remember, you piece of filth, those that live in glass houses...
And I am a Canadian BTW. Born and raised in YVR. So piss off you are an embarassment.
Posted by: GOP 4 ME at August 26, 2006 03:50 PM
GOP
Each & everything you say about Canada is true. With all its faults though, and you being Canadian know it's a fact, we do not declare war on countries for bogus reasons and we are not out to spread our beliefs to citizens of other nations, uninvited.
By the way, the U.S. also reaps many benefits from being Canada's neighbor.
Posted by: Canadian Observer at August 26, 2006 04:06 PM
Mark,
You just keep trying to convince yourself don't you?
If it were up to you we'd be under the same theocratic system as the Muslims only with a Christian flair....no you say....
Raise your hand if you want prayer in public schools.
Raise you hand if you believe laws in this county should be based on the Bible
Raise your hand if you think ID should be taught in public schools
Raise your hand if you think everyone but Christians are going to Hell and it's your responsibility to save them
Etc…
-The will to live is not universal - it really only exists in those who have faith and hope -
With arrogance and naivety is no way to go though life Mark, it must be sadder being you then I ever thought....only exists in those who have faith and hope? In what Mark, your fairy tails, your self perpetuating lies, your insecurities? I don’t have faith or hope in any of those Mark, does that mean I don’t have a will to live? Try living first Mark, then you can talk about the Will to live, 'till then you're just a sheep who's never been let out of the barn.
-Believe in yourself, not what others tell you to.
Posted by: Opus at August 26, 2006 04:40 PM
Europe is indeed alive & well and what I detect from your comments is nothing but pure jealousy.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!
Posted by: Retired Spook at August 26, 2006 05:10 PM
When your country becomes the last hope of people struggling to be free, you can forget about entering any popularity contest. As soon as the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA raised the bar for human rights, we became the target of opposition by God-hating enemies of freedom everywhere. I'm tired of having to apologize for who we are and what we do - in fact, we are light-years ahead of those moribund Euro-weenies!
Posted by:
Bloodthirsty Warmonger at August 26, 2006 06:20 PM
Mark,
I'm in need of a little clarification. You said
"The majority of Europe lost their faith, and thus lost their hope - and now they are about to lose everything..."
But you also said this
If I'm right, then about 50 years or so from now, the prorportion of believers in Europe will exceed 50% of the population, and Europe will then, once again, start living under policies which encourage faith and growth.
They are "about to lose everything" but 50 years from now they'll in essence be okay. There's something missing here. What in your opinion will happen in between Europe's "death" and its predicted re-vitalization? Also, when you say "the prorportion of believers in Europe will exceed 50% of the population" which religion will they adhere to? Christianity? Islam?
Posted by: Freedom1 at August 26, 2006 06:38 PM
Mark-
France actually has decided to send the 2,000 troops that it promised.
Italy is also sending 3,000 troops... all-in all... Europeans will actually make up half of the fighting force in Lebanon. Britain and the US, on the other hand, have thus far refused to send troops.
The will to live is not universal - it really only exists in those who have faith and hope - you have to believe, and hope that things will get better if you work hard and remain true to basic morality. The majority of Europe lost their faith, and thus lost their hope - and now they are about to lose everything...
-Marky Mark
You are once again confusing faith with religion; then again, many people who are very religious generally do. Having faith in God or the bible is little different than having faith in humanity or faith in your leaders (quickly fading for me, however) or faith in yourself.
Even the most non-devout people can have faith...
The people of Europe aren't failing because they don't believe in God; they are failing because they believe in cultural relativism and their economy sucks...
Posted by: Georgia Frawg at August 26, 2006 06:38 PM
"Europe is indeed alive & well and what I detect from your comments is nothing but pure jealousy."
ROFL!!! Thanks for the laugh, Canadian Observer.
:)
Posted by: Freedom1 at August 26, 2006 06:42 PM
C.O. Just what is Canada? Do you have an identity beyong making sure people know you're not American and hating us?
Posted by: Kahn at August 26, 2006 08:08 PM
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48111
Canada
Posted by: Kahn at August 26, 2006 08:19 PM
Nice habit you have: declaring everything dead once you realize you haven't got a clue how to deal with it.
Europe is alive and well, thank you. The current state of affairs in the US on the domestic and international front is definitely not something to aspire.
Posted by: Willem van Oranje at August 26, 2006 11:45 PM
Willem, go on back to your shooting galleries and hash houses, liar.
Great post, Mark--too bad the mindless morons hijacked it.
The most popular baby name in the U.K., back in 2003, I think, was Muhammad. Funny, back when I was in England, I met a lot of Ian's, but very few Muhammad's.
Canadian Observer is just that, an observer. Probably a recovering junkie, never left North America. Does his observing from a university classroom. In other words, a freakin' moron.
Canada, where men are boys, and babies are named Ahmed...
Posted by: keefer at August 27, 2006 12:10 AM
CO,
And what I detect in your comment is a willfull blindness to the demographic facts...Europeans aren't having children. You can't survive unless you have children. That is Q.E.D. on my statement.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at August 27, 2006 03:06 AM
Willem,
And what percentage of children born in Dutch hospitals are the children of Dutch parents?
Posted by: Mark Noonan at August 27, 2006 03:08 AM
Re: Mark Steyn quote above
Methinks this oh-so-original idea can equally be applied to the United States. I have walked your malls, Mark. I have seen your tv channels. I have grasped with both hands your Orwellian culture. The bigger the lie, the easier to sell.
We in Europe, dying Europe, have perhaps had enough of two things. One, is war in general. You know, the kind of war where your family's house is bombed from the sky, and not the kind that is fought by your professional killers in a strange country far away. Two, is having to clear up someone else's mess. And funnily enough these days that mess is usually one made by the perfectly balanced United States.
Yes, we love our ipods over here too. A great American invention. Like rock music and state-sponsered terrorism, we'll always look to the west for innovation. Yet in my home town, I marched with half a million other dying Europeans against your illegal invasion of Iraq three years ago. Maybe we're just too damn educated.
Or maybe its that more of us believe in a reality that exists, and that we have to deal with, as opposed to fairy tale and superstition, stories of good versus evil, fables of 'they hate us for our freedoms'. They hate 'us' for a whole host of reasons, some dare I say it quite justifiable. Some of your malls have some bookstores. Venture inside. Or would that be too French?
Paix.
Posted by: Highsummer at August 27, 2006 05:18 AM
Canada, where men are boys, and babies are named Ahmed...
Posted by: keefer at August 27, 2006 12:10 AM
Ahmed sounds like a good name for a boy to me. You would not be hiding any racist tendencies, now would you, keefer?
"Canadian Observer is just that, an observer. Probably a recovering junkie, never left North America. Does his observing from a university classroom. In other words, a freakin' moron."
Wrong on all counts, keefer. I've been to Europe and the Far East, I've never taken dope, was born in 1946 and unlike you I am not 'a freakin' moron'.
Posted by: Canadian Observer at August 27, 2006 08:54 AM
And what percentage of children born in Dutch hospitals are the children of Dutch parents?
What's your point?
FYI. Dutch children are primarily born at home: childbirth is not an illness.
Posted by: Willem van Oranje at August 28, 2006 02:20 AM
Keefer accusing me of lying? Of what precisely?
I have definite proof you were lying on the other hand. Here is the top-50 of names for baby boys in 2003 in England and Wales:
- 1. Jack
- 2. Joshua
- 3. Thomas
- 4. James
- 5. Daniel
- 6. Oliver
- 7. Benjamin
- 8. Samuel
- 9. William
- 10. Joseph
- 11. Harry
- 12. Matthew
- 13. Lewis
- 14. Luke
- 15. Ethan
- 16. George
- 17. Adam
- 18. Alfie
- 19. Callum
- 20. Alexander
- 21. Ryan
- 22. Mohammed
- 23. Cameron
- 24. Connor
- 25. Charlie
- 26. Ben
- 27. Jacob
- 28. Dylan
- 29. Liam
- 30. Nathan
- 31. Jake
- 32. Jamie
- 33. Owen
- 34. Max
- 35. Tyler
- 36. Harvey
- 37. Kieran
- 38. Michael
- 39. Kyle
- 40. Brandon
- 41. Alex
- 42. Louis
- 43. Aaron
- 44. Bradley
- 45. Edward
- 46. Reece
- 47. Harrison
- 48. Charles
- 49. David
- 50. Archie
Mohammed is nr 22 and is the only Islamic name in the entire list.
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/naming/topnames2003/
Posted by: Willem van Oranje at August 28, 2006 03:04 AM
Sounds to me like you are round the twist Mark.
There is a good reason that the Church and polotics are not meant to be mixed - and you are a prime example of it!
It is really insulting that you think we Europeans can not face up to dealing with terrorists! Rremember that Europe has had to face the impact of terrorist groups like the IRA and Hamas in the past, so we know plenty about facing up to terrorism.
It almost made me sick to read that you think that America has the right balance of religion.
You are SO WRONG! Fundimentalism is what leads to people blowing themselves up because they think that they are a martyr to their faith. America is reaching a point of Fundimentalism! You have schools that will only teach creationism - how wrong is it to deny children the right to truely understand the world and effectivly remove their choice to choose how they welcome god into their lives.
Your mention of the French schools - they are right on, schools are for learning facts and gaining knowledge and life skills, not ideologies. Schools should be totally neutral of religion race and creed.
It is fundimentalism that is the scurge of the earth and America seems to be a positive breeding ground for it - even more so that you have a president that encourages it!
Europe is in no way dying - it is moving forward and it is doing this in a positive way - for example more and more of Europe is recognising same sex partnerships, which is long overdue. America is the one that is dragging its heals, at times I am sure that it is becoming totally retarded actually. Nobody can live by the word of the bible anymore because so much of it is not relevent to the contemperary world. America thinking that it is doing this is not! The fucked up world of the Evangelical takes a passage out of the bible, koran and any other book of faith that suites their needs and preechs at people these falsities. I truely belive that America has very little of the true Christian faith, more you are part of CULTS.
It is time to remove Bush and his croonies, it is time for those American's that have not already apologised to say sorry for the devistation that they have brought to the world in the past decade. It is time for America to start taking resposabilities for its own actions (stop selling weapons to terrorists if you are so against it!)
It is time for people like you to shut up!
Posted by: Jonas Mouatt at August 31, 2006 10:39 AM
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After what Europe experienced in the last century, you would think they would be the first to stand against the same tryanny that enslaved them. Sadly, it isn't so. They seem to be first in line to appease and submit.
As far as I'm concerned, Europe died a long time ago, shortly after WW2 when they began repeating the same mistakes that led to WW2 in the first place.
The European Union have just sent 7,500 troops to the region. Shouldn't you have waited until you saw how many they were going to send before you printed this crap?
Mark
If any nation on this earth is in peril, it is the U.S. of A. Don't you understand that American policies and arrogrance, in relation to other countries occupying this globe, is almost universally scorned. Look to your own inadequacies before disparaging others.
Somehow there is a creepy movement afloat in some areas of the religious born-again fanatic fringe that the world needs to be populated by little sheep-like individuals running around declaring war on anything that moves. How pathetic, how very sad.
Europe is indeed alive & well and what I detect from your comments is nothing but pure jealousy.
Blinded Canuck,
Dude you are such a goof it is pathetic. Just where would Canada be if it did not have the good fortune of sitting atop, geographically speaking of course, the greatest nation in the history of the world? Where would Canada be without the ability to sell its goods and services to the largest consumer on the planet? Where would Canada be without the military protection of the strongest nation in the history of the world?
Jackoffs like you who constantly bite the hand that feeds it are outrageous in the extreme. Why don't we talk about the imperfections of your country?
How about Adscam? What about the gun registry? What about people DYING while waiting for government rationed healthcare? What about the MILLIONS of dollars literally stolen by the Grits in an attempt to retain power? What about the mass murderer in BC who buried all of those bodies at the pig farm? What about Air India? What about the lack of free speech in Quebec? What about the fact that Canada cannot protect its own borders or project its sovereingty to all of its frontiers? What about the Canadian Military's logistical inability to help its fellow Canadians in the event of a major disaster?
I could go on for hours. Remember, you piece of filth, those that live in glass houses...
And I am a Canadian BTW. Born and raised in YVR. So piss off you are an embarassment.
GOP
Each & everything you say about Canada is true. With all its faults though, and you being Canadian know it's a fact, we do not declare war on countries for bogus reasons and we are not out to spread our beliefs to citizens of other nations, uninvited.
By the way, the U.S. also reaps many benefits from being Canada's neighbor.
Mark,
You just keep trying to convince yourself don't you?
If it were up to you we'd be under the same theocratic system as the Muslims only with a Christian flair....no you say....
Raise your hand if you want prayer in public schools.
Raise you hand if you believe laws in this county should be based on the Bible
Raise your hand if you think ID should be taught in public schools
Raise your hand if you think everyone but Christians are going to Hell and it's your responsibility to save them
Etc…
-The will to live is not universal - it really only exists in those who have faith and hope -
With arrogance and naivety is no way to go though life Mark, it must be sadder being you then I ever thought....only exists in those who have faith and hope? In what Mark, your fairy tails, your self perpetuating lies, your insecurities? I don’t have faith or hope in any of those Mark, does that mean I don’t have a will to live? Try living first Mark, then you can talk about the Will to live, 'till then you're just a sheep who's never been let out of the barn.
-Believe in yourself, not what others tell you to.
Europe is indeed alive & well and what I detect from your comments is nothing but pure jealousy.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!
When your country becomes the last hope of people struggling to be free, you can forget about entering any popularity contest. As soon as the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA raised the bar for human rights, we became the target of opposition by God-hating enemies of freedom everywhere. I'm tired of having to apologize for who we are and what we do - in fact, we are light-years ahead of those moribund Euro-weenies!
Mark,
I'm in need of a little clarification. You said
But you also said this
They are "about to lose everything" but 50 years from now they'll in essence be okay. There's something missing here. What in your opinion will happen in between Europe's "death" and its predicted re-vitalization? Also, when you say "the prorportion of believers in Europe will exceed 50% of the population" which religion will they adhere to? Christianity? Islam?
Mark-
France actually has decided to send the 2,000 troops that it promised.
Italy is also sending 3,000 troops... all-in all... Europeans will actually make up half of the fighting force in Lebanon. Britain and the US, on the other hand, have thus far refused to send troops.
-Marky MarkYou are once again confusing faith with religion; then again, many people who are very religious generally do. Having faith in God or the bible is little different than having faith in humanity or faith in your leaders (quickly fading for me, however) or faith in yourself.
Even the most non-devout people can have faith...
The people of Europe aren't failing because they don't believe in God; they are failing because they believe in cultural relativism and their economy sucks...
"Europe is indeed alive & well and what I detect from your comments is nothing but pure jealousy."
ROFL!!! Thanks for the laugh, Canadian Observer.
:)
C.O. Just what is Canada? Do you have an identity beyong making sure people know you're not American and hating us?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48111
Canada
Nice habit you have: declaring everything dead once you realize you haven't got a clue how to deal with it.
Europe is alive and well, thank you. The current state of affairs in the US on the domestic and international front is definitely not something to aspire.
Willem, go on back to your shooting galleries and hash houses, liar.
Great post, Mark--too bad the mindless morons hijacked it.
The most popular baby name in the U.K., back in 2003, I think, was Muhammad. Funny, back when I was in England, I met a lot of Ian's, but very few Muhammad's.
Canadian Observer is just that, an observer. Probably a recovering junkie, never left North America. Does his observing from a university classroom. In other words, a freakin' moron.
Canada, where men are boys, and babies are named Ahmed...
CO,
And what I detect in your comment is a willfull blindness to the demographic facts...Europeans aren't having children. You can't survive unless you have children. That is Q.E.D. on my statement.
Willem,
And what percentage of children born in Dutch hospitals are the children of Dutch parents?
Re: Mark Steyn quote above
Methinks this oh-so-original idea can equally be applied to the United States. I have walked your malls, Mark. I have seen your tv channels. I have grasped with both hands your Orwellian culture. The bigger the lie, the easier to sell.
We in Europe, dying Europe, have perhaps had enough of two things. One, is war in general. You know, the kind of war where your family's house is bombed from the sky, and not the kind that is fought by your professional killers in a strange country far away. Two, is having to clear up someone else's mess. And funnily enough these days that mess is usually one made by the perfectly balanced United States.
Yes, we love our ipods over here too. A great American invention. Like rock music and state-sponsered terrorism, we'll always look to the west for innovation. Yet in my home town, I marched with half a million other dying Europeans against your illegal invasion of Iraq three years ago. Maybe we're just too damn educated.
Or maybe its that more of us believe in a reality that exists, and that we have to deal with, as opposed to fairy tale and superstition, stories of good versus evil, fables of 'they hate us for our freedoms'. They hate 'us' for a whole host of reasons, some dare I say it quite justifiable. Some of your malls have some bookstores. Venture inside. Or would that be too French?
Paix.
Canada, where men are boys, and babies are named Ahmed...
Posted by: keefer at August 27, 2006 12:10 AM
Ahmed sounds like a good name for a boy to me. You would not be hiding any racist tendencies, now would you, keefer?
"Canadian Observer is just that, an observer. Probably a recovering junkie, never left North America. Does his observing from a university classroom. In other words, a freakin' moron."
Wrong on all counts, keefer. I've been to Europe and the Far East, I've never taken dope, was born in 1946 and unlike you I am not 'a freakin' moron'.
What's your point?
FYI. Dutch children are primarily born at home: childbirth is not an illness.
Keefer accusing me of lying? Of what precisely?
I have definite proof you were lying on the other hand. Here is the top-50 of names for baby boys in 2003 in England and Wales:
Mohammed is nr 22 and is the only Islamic name in the entire list.
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/naming/topnames2003/
Sounds to me like you are round the twist Mark.
There is a good reason that the Church and polotics are not meant to be mixed - and you are a prime example of it!
It is really insulting that you think we Europeans can not face up to dealing with terrorists! Rremember that Europe has had to face the impact of terrorist groups like the IRA and Hamas in the past, so we know plenty about facing up to terrorism.
It almost made me sick to read that you think that America has the right balance of religion.
You are SO WRONG! Fundimentalism is what leads to people blowing themselves up because they think that they are a martyr to their faith. America is reaching a point of Fundimentalism! You have schools that will only teach creationism - how wrong is it to deny children the right to truely understand the world and effectivly remove their choice to choose how they welcome god into their lives.
Your mention of the French schools - they are right on, schools are for learning facts and gaining knowledge and life skills, not ideologies. Schools should be totally neutral of religion race and creed.
It is fundimentalism that is the scurge of the earth and America seems to be a positive breeding ground for it - even more so that you have a president that encourages it!
Europe is in no way dying - it is moving forward and it is doing this in a positive way - for example more and more of Europe is recognising same sex partnerships, which is long overdue. America is the one that is dragging its heals, at times I am sure that it is becoming totally retarded actually. Nobody can live by the word of the bible anymore because so much of it is not relevent to the contemperary world. America thinking that it is doing this is not! The fucked up world of the Evangelical takes a passage out of the bible, koran and any other book of faith that suites their needs and preechs at people these falsities. I truely belive that America has very little of the true Christian faith, more you are part of CULTS.
It is time to remove Bush and his croonies, it is time for those American's that have not already apologised to say sorry for the devistation that they have brought to the world in the past decade. It is time for America to start taking resposabilities for its own actions (stop selling weapons to terrorists if you are so against it!)
It is time for people like you to shut up!