It simply take about 60K of the Iraqi army and place them in greater Baghdad, start a 10pm to Dawn curfew, ban weapons in baghdad, begin random checkpoints of cars for weapons. Lock up anyone who breaks the conditions, continue grid by grid search of areas for weapons and terrorist strongholds.

As long as we can continue to kill the terrorists more frequently than the Imams can produce them, we'll do okay. Eventually the Imams will run out of gullible, self-detonating sheep.

Deteled - usual litany of leftwing lies about Iraq and the War on Terrorism...just post a link, bloviator; don't clutter us up with leftwing trash like that.

Iraqi and coalition forces have come kick a$$ and chew bubble gum...and they're all out of bubble gum!
:}
Seriously, if they find a way to get rid of that thug Al Sadr, then Shiite militia revenge killings/violence should significantly decrease in Baghdad.

Freedom

You are correct. If we could get rid of Al Sadr, then this probably would help significantly. CPA spokesman as well as former 911 commissioners have admited we do not have enough resources commited to Iraq, Afghanistan, or the broader war on terror. Its time to commit more resources.

Bloviator

What we have to show since 911 is to date no attacks on the US. This is a very powerful enemy. Its far bigger than Osama Bin Laden. I would like to capture Osama Bin Laden. Everyone would, however, If we can neutralize him, this is enough for me.

With regards to Iraq, I think if we commit the proper resources to it we can win. As it is, unless we commit more troops to this, we have a policy based largely on hope. We hope the Iraqis we are training will be up to the task. We hope the liberated Iraq will be allied with us. I don't like policies based on hope. If we commit more troops, we should be able to get the security situation under control. This would make it more likely that we will get an ally from this. Many members of the greatest generation who sacrificed far more than Americans have had to sacrifice in the GWOT would be likely be ashamed of us that some people are willing to give up so quickly.

As with any leftist talking point, they contain some truth to them. Regarding points 5 and 6 there is some truth to this. Hezbollah and Hamas never should have been allowed to enter the political process. Islamic Extremists are incompatible with true liberty, as such they should not have been allowed to particpate in the political process. There is no evidence that the US encouraged Israel to attack Lebanon. The IDF could have completely eliminated the fighting ability of Lebanon, however, they were not given enough time. Barring a Dresden type response best case scenario would have been about six months to completely eliminate the military capability of Lebanon. The US and Israel should have been willing to hold out at least that long. I am VERY upset at the US government and president Bush for caving so quickly.

If the Democrats will move past talking points and talk about commiting more troops to Iraq and elsewhere in the GWOT they can be taken seriously. I would appreciate it if the Republicans would move past "stay the course" and talk about commiting more resources. Frankly both major political parties are lacking.

Noonan, Noonan, Noonan:

Regarding your comment

"With Iraqi troops performing at ever higher levels, it really is just a matter of time before the terrorists are reduced to scattered bandit-thugs who are powerless"

Your optimism which I already pointed out was severely misplaced in another posting, well it is hopelessly delusional in this case. Man, wake up, give your head a shake and do a reality check. In due time, you should be eating this posting as an admission that it is complete twaddle.

Not that history always repeats itself but it seems to me that the South Vietnamese army was said to have been trained up to capable levels as well and we all know what happened there.

HEAR YE, HEAR YE DEMOCRATS!!

DO YOU RENOUNCE VIOLENCE AGAINST REPUBLICANS??

Jeremiah

Canuk,

Ever heard of the Battle of Xuan Loc? Bet ya haven't.

At any rate, at the Battle of Xuan Loc from April 9th to the 20th, 1975, the ARVN 18th division, plus a few attached units, stood of a total of four North Vietnamese divisions. They beat them, Canuck - outnumbered five or six to one, with Saigon nearly surrounded and the war clearly lost, those ARVN troopers fought the North Vietnamese to a standstill, and were only forced to give way because of the complete collapse of the Saigon government once it became clear that the United States was not going to honor its commitments under the Paris Peace Accords.

It is only in the mind of guilt-ridden leftwingers that the South Vietnamese didn't fight - that they just wanted us to leave so they could quickly surrender to the North Vietnamese. We trained them, equipped them and promised them support - and then, at the behest of the left, we betrayed them.

Well, Canuck, we're not going to do that again - you can denigrate those brave Iraqis all you want, but you do that because you lack their courage, and wish to hide your cowardice behind a mask of cynicism.

He's from Canada, Mark, where men are boys and all have prayer rugs...

HEAR YE, HEAR YE DEMOCRATS!!

DO YOU RENOUNCE VIOLENCE AGAINST REPUBLICANS??

What the hell are you talking about?

I hate to point this out, but this new article appears to have been posted before the article in the first post. This one mentions 3000 buildings searched. The first one indicated 5500. This one mentions that 20 suspects were detained. The first one indicates 38. What's up with that?

Anyway, after searching 3000 buildings 50 weapons and 8 cars were siezed and 330 weapons "registered", whatever that means.

Pardon me for saying so, but that kind of yield sounds awfully low even for somewhere like, oh... Detroit. But we're talking about Doura here, the worst of the worst neighborhoods in Baghdad. Granted, I've never been to Doura. But I have been to Detroit. And the Watts neighborhood in LA. And it would frankly surprise me greatly if you couldn't come up with 50 illegal weapons in either place by cordoning off just a few blocks.

I hate to point this out, but this new article appears to have been posted before the article in the first post. This one mentions 3000 buildings searched. The first one indicated 5500. This one mentions that 20 suspects were detained. The first one indicates 38. What's up with that?

Anyway, after searching 3000 buildings 50 weapons and 8 cars were siezed and 330 weapons "registered", whatever that means.

Pardon me for saying so, but that kind of yield sounds awfully low even for somewhere like, oh... Detroit. But we're talking about Doura here, the worst of the worst neighborhoods in Baghdad. Granted, I've never been to Doura. But I have been to Detroit. And the Watts neighborhood in LA. And it would frankly surprise me greatly if you couldn't come up with 50 illegal weapons in either place by cordoning off just a few blocks.

"What the (delete) are you talking about?"

TL,

It was deleted!!

A bunch of leftwing lies about the war on terror!

He never responded!

Jeremiah

Mark: “Ever heard of the Battle of Xuan Loc?”

The battle of Xuan Loc was the last, and arguably the best, most heroic stand by the ARVN against the NVA. But an ardent student of military matters such as yourself, Mark, surely you must agree that the logistics matrices that carry you into battle and take you out are just as important as the battle itself. So I guess the question I have is this: How did so many NVA troops, supplied as they were with hundreds of tanks and hundreds more heavy artillery pieces, make their way so deeply into the heartland of South Viet Nam in the first place?

The battle of Xuan Loc didn’t mark the beginning of a major campaign, it marked the culmination. And the fact of the matter was that after years of “Vietnamization”, the ARVN had maybe a handful of high level commanders worth a darn. The NVA, on the other hand, had hundreds (I’m being conservative). That was the essential problem. And it is a problem that best not be repeated in Iraq. And while we’re at it, what’s up with the Iraqi air force? So far it consists of a small fleet of C-130 cargo planes. That’s it. Period. What’s up with that? Could it possibly be that we don’t trust them? I’m just asking.

"Your optimism which I already pointed out was severely misplaced in another posting, well it is hopelessly delusional in this case. Man, wake up, give your head a shake and do a reality check. In due time, you should be eating this posting as an admission that it is complete twaddle."

And look at all the facts you cite to take that position...oh wait...no facts. Jez your such a...whats the word I'm looking for...moron?? no...coward?..no..wait I've got it...CANADIAN.

Ricorun,

The final collapse in South Vietnam, however, was due to the loss of will on the part of the South Vietnamese government when they were de-facto abandoned by the United States at the behest of leftwing Democrats in Congress. It wasn't a rag-tag bit of Viet Cong who overthrough the Saigon government, but massed attack by overwhelming NVA conventional forces. Had we merely kept to our promises, the NVA never would have made it to Da Nang, let alone Saigon. You're judging the ARVN by an entirely unfair standard - a "they lost, ergo they deserved to lose" assertion.

The Iraqi army is not ready to defend Iraq against, say, a conventional attack by massed Iranian forces - but they are at least the equal to the current terrorist threat in Iraq, and it is only a matter of time before they will be able to take on enemy conventional forces. All that we want in Iraq will happen provided we don't cut the rug out from under them.

will limit future blockquotes or employ links alone...

The battle of Xuan Loc didn’t mark the beginning of a major campaign, it marked the culmination.

Up until about two weeks before this battle, I was living in Saigon and working at Bien Hoa AFB as a civilian contractor to the VNAF. The collapse of the South was put into motion and guaranteed by one and only one thing: The US congress cut the funding to support them from $1.4 billion to $700 million. As part of the Vietnamization program, we were in a one-for-one replacement which said that any military equipment they lost, broke or damaged would be replaced. But with the budget cuts, that was no longer possible. The President of South Viet Nam, Nguyen Van Thieu, responding to the betrayal by the US, pulled his troops out of the northern part of Sout Viet Nam claiming that he could not support their continued efforts financially. The North and the VC cried foul because that suddenly left them in control (and responsible) for about half of South Viet Nam and the people therein. After they recovered from that, they moved the NVA forces into the South in preparation for winning and unifying the country.

I left when the rocket attacks on my workplace exceeded 100 per day. We could get no more work accomplished and the US embassy in Saigon warned civilians to get out before it was too late so I did. I was on one of the last commercial flights out of Saigon. The battle of which we speak, Xuan Loc, occurred after all that and was a symbolic gesture in the face of certain political defeat. All of that was brought on by the betrayal of Viet Nam by the US congress and the administration who was anxious to extract itself from the unpopular war - no matter what the cost to the Vietnamese. And that cost was significant. The first and most obvious being that the country fell to the Communists. This came at a time when Communism was on the decline worldwide, and did not have to happen. Second, over 2 million South Vietnamese have never been accounted for and most were murdered in the aftermath of the war and the "re-education" camps the Communists built and packed with their perceived enemies. Similar genocides happened in Laos and Cambodia.

They all have one thing in common. The US, for political expediency and at the behest of the same type of anti-war fanatics that President Bush is dealing with today, betrayed and abandoned South Viet Nam. We now know the cost of that disgrace. And it should never be repeated. If the hate-America first Left really wants something of which they should be ashamed of, the end of the Viet Nam war is it. I was there, I saw what happened, and it was tragic. And Kissinger, who was the chief architect of this disgrace, accepted a Nobel prize for his "efforts" at selling out the South. Le Duc Tho, his Communist counterpart, refused his - he knew it was all a lie.

"Some commanders said the insurgents have grown adept at shifting away from areas targeted by U.S. troops, turning up elsewhere. For example, some Marines attributed a recent spike across the region to increased U.S. military operations in Ramadi.

"It's like pushing on a water balloon, if you will. When you apply pressure to Fallujah, they squirt elsewhere," Cooling said. "Wherever you do not apply a significant amount of pressure, that's where the enemy is going to go."

The U.S. military has pinned its hopes on the development of Iraqi forces. Thousands of Iraqi soldiers have flowed into Anbar over the past year and are expected to soon take over key terrain such as Fallujah.

But commanders say it's a struggle to keep soldiers stationed in Anbar: Thousands have deserted after being given orders here or shortly after arriving." AP

p.s. Zoot... where do you take your screen name from? the only place I have heard that before is Frank Zappa. You know, the Frank Zappa that actually uses "republican" as a swear.

"Zoot... where do you take your screen name from?"

The album

"the only place I have heard that before is Frank Zappa."

Travel more...is a slight corruption of the french term zut alors...to express annoyance ; damn, shoot , dang, cripes etc.

"You know, the Frank Zappa that actually uses "republican" as a swear."

Some people emphasise his run-ins with the evangelical right and the fundamentalists over censorship (which he bitterly opposed), while others stress his belief in private enterprise. It was Zappa's commitment to capitalism which led him into a brief liaison with the former president of Czechoslovakia Vaclav Havel in 1989.

Zappa's politics were contradictory. Because he refused to hide behind pious conformism, his views were more exposed than most.

In 1979 Zappa's song 'Bobby Brown'caused a stir--an account of the supposed psychological and sexual effects of women's liberation on the American male.

In 1981, when he launched an 'onslaught' on Reagan and the Republicans while simultaneously advocating typical Reaganite policies like lower taxes and union busting. The Mothers Of Invention were a superb political band, challenging flower power idealism with a biting wit.

The political balance sheet goes right through the roof with Thing-Fish, a three album 'musical' about AIDS, which manages to offend practically every belief of 'political correctness'.

Such songs as "The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing" certainly dont speak well of the naive pacifism of the current left. "Cosmik Debris" mercilessly mocks the new age bozos. "The Slime", a scathing commentary on the innane content of today's (and yesterday's) television programming.

I could go on but the point is, unlike you, Zappa was an independent thinker as disgusted by the vapid and naive ideas of the left as he was by religious fundementalism of any religion and the censorship desires of the right. He never did drugs and had little respect for those who did but argued that the war on drugs was ineffectual(my position as well). By the way I got to see him live about 8 times starting in 73 in Houston. Great shows and I miss his unique sense of humor and great music.

As for your other quote...whats your point...thats it tough difficult conditions. I know thats a reason to quit for folks like you so thank god your not likely to get any political power anytime soon. You like quotes hers some others...

Jan 5 2006
"Approximately 400 Iraqi Police candidates arrived in Baghdad early this morning from the Al Anbar Province to begin a ten week Iraqi Police training course. Half of the men were recruited from the Al Qa’im region in western Al Anbar and the other half from the provincial capital, Ar Ramadi. On Jan. 5 a suicide bomber attacked the recruitment center in Ramadi killing more than 30 applicants. Despite that attack, the recruits returned en masse."

RAMADI, Iraq, March 25, 2006 – One newly graduated 196-member Iraqi police unit returned here for duty yesterday, while another group -- about 220 Iraqi police recruits -- left here and arrived safely at the Baghdad Iraqi Police Basic Training Academy yesterday.

The Iraqi police unit, made up of 196 Iraqis known as the Sons of al Anbar, successfully graduated from the Baghdad Police Academy on March 23. This Iraqi police class left Ramadi for the Baghdad Police Academy on Jan. 13, and they represent the first trained group of Iraqi police officers to graduate and secure the neighborhoods of Ramadi, a former insurgent stronghold.

"We are the future of Iraq, each and every one of us. We believe in our cause," said a newly appointed Iraqi policeman, as he stepped off the bus at the Ramadi Glass Factory, where the policemen were greeted by Iraqi army and coalition forces yesterday. "The conditions we are living in now, with the insurgency and terrorist around us, is no way to live life. We will make a difference for our sons and daughters."

Aug 7 2006
"Thanks to months of training and mentoring by U.S. Marines and soldiers, Iraqi police in this portion of Iraq’s western Al Anbar province, are now operating independently out of their own police station.

“The Iraqi police are beginning to provide security on their own,” said Lt. Col. Nicholas F. Marano, commanding officer of 1st Battalion, 7th Marine Regiment. “The work that Marines have been doing over the last couple months is starting to show.”"

I know in your TV educated mind all problems should be fixed in an hour but this is the real world where solutions are always imperfect and take time, sometimes years, to work out.

Zoot, thanks for the reply. However, I dont' see why you felt the need to attack me, a person you've never meet. You have no knowledge of how I've gathered my education or opinions. One reason I come to B4B everyday is to get all sides that I can. usually start the day with a reading of drudge before I move onto the AP and other sources. I even read Newsmax everyday. So, I don't sit and get educated by the wolf blitzers or sean hannitys or Olbermans of the world. That is one reason I love Zappa. I agree that political correctness is completly out of control.

the reason I posted that article from the AP is I wanted to show that even though things do appear better in some parts of Iraq that the whole situation is difficult and cannot be solved by military means alone.

Now, back to Frank, what about his views on military force? "Whoever we are, wherever we're from, we should have noticed by now our behaviour is dumb, and if our chances expect to improve it's going to take a lot more than trying to remove the other race, or the other whatever from the face of the planet all together."

I've stated many times on this blog that I am not a flaming lib. But if painting me that way makes it easier for you to find fault, then have at it. It won't change who I am or what I believe (two things you know nothing about since we have never met or talked)

Where have I said we should "quit"? As I was taught by my uncle (3 tours in Nam) "Always, always make sure the civilians in charge are doing everything possible to forge a mission that is winnable. Even if you don't agree with the mission, do everything in your power to make sure it's being done right"

also, I'm curious as to how you extract anti-pacifism from "the meek shall inheriet nothing"? There is nothing in the song that even mentions war. It's more a crack at organized religion.

"eat that pork, eat tha ham, laugh till you choke on billy graham, moses, aahron, and abraham, it's all a waste of time, and it's your a** that's on the line."

what's your take on "when the lie's so big"?

"with a big 'ol lie, and a flag and pie, and a mom and bible, most folks are just liable to by any line, any place any time." "When the lie's so big, and the fog's so thick, and the facts get forgotten, the republican trick, can be played out again. People please tell me when, we'll be rid of these men."

or songs like "jesus thinks you're a jerk"

"with a klu-klux muu-muu in the back of the truck, if you ain't born again they wanna mess you up. Screaming "no abortion, no sir-ree, life's to precious can't you see... but what's that hanging from a neighbor's tree? why it looks like colored folks to me"

I find songs like "who needs the peace core", "I don't wanna get drafted", "Oh No", "Teenage Wind" (my personal fav jab at the hippie culture) "Free is when you don't have to pay for nothing or do nothing, we want to be free" much better jabs at the liberal movement. although you are correct with his views on unions.

however I feel one of his best "balanced" songs to be "hot plate heaven"

"republicans is fine if you're a multi-millionare, democrats is fair if all you own is what you wear. Neither of them's really right, cause neither of them care bout that hot plate heaven at the green hotel."

One of the main reasons I love Frank is because he is not afraid to tear down anything he feels is wrong or just plain stupid.

And never have I been niave enough to think that things will ever be solved overnight. That is, in my opinion, the main problem with people in this country. Most people do not have the ability to plan farther than their own lifetime. And they also fail to realize that things that happened 50 years ago still affect events today.

Also, congrats on being lucky enough to catch him in person. Growing up in the mississippi delta, in a lower middle class family didn't allow for easy access to catching live Zappa shows. Did you get a chance to catch any of the Zappa plays Zappa? AMAZING stuff.

"You know we gotta stick together"
I know what I is, I is what I are. Sorry if you thought my question to you was some sort of personal attack. I was just making sure I was correct in that it was an homage to Frank.

Slaw,

Here a trait you dont see often on the left.

My apologies for the assumptions and tone.

I'm aware Zappa had harsh words for the military and religion but he also had harsh words for a lot of other folks as well. Mostly they were deserved...sometimes I think he got a little full of himself but who doesnt. Didnt catch Zappa plays Zappa.

We agree on the disasterious effects of PC...it limits real discussions about unpleasent subjects. Sometime the sh** sandwich needs eaten.

Once again my apologies for the venom. I will look foward to reading your posts.

No problems. It's difficult, if sometimes not impossible to convey tone and true meaning in type alone.

and like I stated, that's the reason I like Frank. He doesn't care who he offends. If you do something he thought was idiotic, he was going to let you know. One great interview, someone asked him why he was so negative towards women. he stated (paraphrasing) "women do stupid things, just like men, so I'm going to call you on it."

it's one reason I like the south park guys. They hold nothing back and let no one slide.

No one person, group has all the answers. It's why I like to try to keep up with all sides.

I try not to call people out personally, because I feel that degrades from any point I have to make. So my tone in addressing your moniker could have been more subtle and less abrasive, but then again, who's perfect?

The president expressed frustration that Iraqis had not come to appreciate the sacrifices the United States had made in Iraq, and was puzzled as to how a recent anti-American rally in support of Hezbollah in Baghdad could draw such a large crowd.

The battle in Baghdad continues indeed.

The president expressed frustration that Iraqis had not come to appreciate the sacrifices the United States had made in Iraq, and was puzzled as to how a recent anti-American rally in support of Hezbollah in Baghdad could draw such a large crowd.

The battle in Baghdad continues indeed.

ClearwaterConservatie: I heard about this to. The reason we see a pro-Hezbollah rally in Baghdad is because we allowed Islamic Extremists into a democratic process. This never should have been done. Islamic Extremists and Baathists are incompatible with liberty.

Also, this president has been the most pro-Arab and the least pro-Israel president in US history. This president is so pro-Arab that he has tried to create another Arab state and he has tried to carve it out of Israel who is our most reliable ally. Also, president Bush signed on to a cease fire in Lebanon's war with Israel. Israel was only weeks from demolishing Hezbollah. It seems this cease fire has preserved one of Israel's ost dangerous enemies to fight another day.

Being the most pro Arab and the least pro Israel president in US history has gotten president Bush nothing but hatred. If President Bush is really expressing "frustration" with the stiutaion, I hoe and pray this means he is finally beginning to understand what we are up against here.