Amen!!

“They are not worthy of your concern and, truth be told, in the pit of their cowardly hearts, they wish they could be like you.” Such as:
Maj. Gen. John Batiste
Maj. Gen. Charles Swannack
Gen. Anthony Zinni
Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton
Marine Corps Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold
Major General John Riggs
U.S. Army Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson
Senator Chuck Hagel (Nam Vet)

What a buffoon.

Barney,

You've got 8...and you forgot your true hero, the traitor Murtha.

He's referring to people like Baldwin and Moore, of course, not former military people who have merely come to the wrong conclusion.

"not former military people who have merely come to the wrong conclusion."

Posted by: Mark Noonan at August 7, 2006 11:55 AM

Mark

You may feel it is the wrong conclusion but the majority of Americans disagree with you. More & more of the military are now speaking out. These are the brave men & women who went to Iraq thinking it was the right thing to do but have since realized they were duped by their own leaders.

Mark, I did not forget Murtha, nor other democrats that are decorated Vets. My list only includes recent military retirees or republicans.

“He's referring to people like Baldwin and Moore, of course, not former military people who have merely come to the wrong conclusion.”

I do not understand your logic? It is only appropriate to be critical if you recently served? What kind of anti American commie BS is that?

I do not understand your logic?

No surprise there.

Those who leave negative comments to this inspiring speech are described in the speech itself with these words:

I'm speaking of the "latte biscotti crowd”. They are simply background chatter, men, and will always exist on the periphery of any endevour that requires selfless service or loyalty. They are not worthy of your concern and, truth be told, in the pit of their cowardly hearts, they wish they could be like you.

Except, of course for the odd Canadian, who doesn't even earn that much contempt.

Rev,

The mere fact that we are on your mind is a victory. LOL

21st-century Spartans?

Last time I checked, the Spartans were militaristic oligarchs with a taste for pederasty.

The mere fact that we...

Buzz off, troll.

[deleted, offensive]

Mark,
Is there anyway we can force Ward Churchill, Noam Chomsky and Michael Moore to listen to that speech? On second thought, scratch that. For them, it would be cruel and unusual punishment.

Observer,
So you think our leaders "duped" our military about Iraq? A serious question: does the term "honest mistake" mean anything to you? Please let me explain. When you think something's there, but your later find out it isn't there, that's a mistake. It's not a lie, and no one has been duped. It's amazing how so many people can't understand the difference.

Blarney, don't know about the others, but Sen Hagel is listed as a RINO in Nebraska politics right now. Not a good thing in a predominately Conservative Republican state.

Bigfoot, Unfortunately that "honest mistake" is costing many lives and adding to our debt. I think it should be called a "Big Blunder".

Jeff, the only mistake I have seen is not going in stronger and harder right at the beginning of the Iraqi war. Had we done that I think the fighting would be closer to over now. As for the WMD, well, Saddam wanted us to think he had them, and we did, and he paid - Saddam lied.

Barney,

I guess it is something you don't understand - the colonel was referring to the ability to sacrifce for a cause...something you don't understand.

[Deleted and banned after multiple offenses]

kjstrouble: "Sen Hagel is listed as a RINO in Nebraska politics right now. Not a good thing in a predominately Conservative Republican state."

Gee, and here I thought the Dems were the only ones who could be accused of polarizing their members.

"Jeff, the only mistake I have seen is not going in stronger and harder right at the beginning of the Iraqi war.

Darn, you sound like those loony moonbats NATO Supreme Commander Wesley Clarke, Sec. of State/Joint Chief Colin Powell, Maj. Gen. John Batiste, Maj. Gen. Charles Swannack, Gen. Anthony Zinni, Army Maj. Gen. Paul Eaton, Marine Corps Lt. Gen. Gregory Newbold, Major General John Riggs, and U.S. Army Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson.

Be that as it may, if you were in command, how would you correct that mistake?

[Deleted and banned after multiple offenses]

Be that as it may...

Off your meds again, I see...

"#4 I, for one, will never, ever apologise for being an American and don't you feel that you ever have to. We're not perfect, but I can think of no place better. We didn't become the great country we are by accident, we earned it! And while we were at it, we kept and continue to keep a large porftion of the world free. American blood and sacrifice is the indisputable part of the world equation. More people are trying to come to our shores than any other country. We remain the beacon of hope for many and, God willing, it will always be so. We're number one; don't apologise for it, be damn proud of it!" -Lt Colonel Randolph C. White

OOH-RAH! GO USA!!
:)

God, Barney..just when I feel there can sometimes be hope for you...you go and blow it..
that too gay for you???
Could you be anymore of an ass.....that is a statement not a question...

Me: "Be that as it may..."

Scaramonga: "Off your meds again, I see..."

You caught me, my anti-sarcasm prescription ran out (not that it was likely to have helped in this case -- I think kjstrouble knows what I mean). Likewise, I take it you need to re-fill your anti-ad hominem attack prescription. Once you do, please respond to the issue.

please respond to the issue.

What issue?

please respond to the issue.

What issue?

*Chuckles*

It's so nice to see the expected responses. Right on cue and with perfect timing. Thanks for participating guys! :)

As for the speech I enjoyed it and I really liked the small little bits of advice he threw in on #5. Keep your gear water proofed and stay hydrated. Always good advice!

I agree with Kjstrouble. Going in stronger and harder at the beginning probably would have made a huge difference. Also, there remain some unanswered questions about the wmd issue. I hope the conventional wisom on this is correct. If these weapons were moved, this is a devastating failure of the war plan.

Ricorun

"Be that as it may, if you were in command how would you correct the mistake?" I realize the question is directed at Kjstrouble nevertheless I would like to express my thoughts on it. First and foremost to win any war, be it the GWOT or any onter war, we must know ourselves and we must know our enemy.

First in knowing ourselves, many people labor under the misguided notion that America is some sort of "hyerpower." It is a very powerful country but it is no hyperpower. To think such a thing could give one a false sense of security. The US due to its lack of readiness is vunerable to a first strike nuclear attack from Russia. This vunerablity should be corrected immediately. The US is vunerable due to its massive debt. Attempts to get spending under control need to be taken immediately. Finally, the Army does not seem to be large enough to do what it is being asked to do. At the very least if we had a larger army we could be more effective.

Next it is of the utmost importance importance to identify the enemy and to understand them. The term war on "terror" is a lazy term. A more accurrate term would be "war against Islamic Extremists." We also need to be frank enough to address the fact that we might be at war with Islam itself. Political correctness prevents some questions from being asked. Also I don't think it can be over emphasized that the enemy behind the Islamic Extremists states of Iran and Syria are Russia and China. If we can get Russia and China to withdraw their support, these states can be neutralized fairly quickly.

In the case of Iran and their Hezbollah proxy, they simply want us destroyed or they want to enslave us. Failure to acknowledge this ties us up in fruitless diplomacy.

What would I do? As POTUS my ability to change geo political realities is quite limited. I think we could begin by explaining that if we fail in Iraq this would be essentially giving the country to Iran and its Chinese and Russian allies. Russia and Iran are America's most dangerous enemies. I think committing more troops would be a good place to start.

Diplomacy with Iran and Hezbollah is probably fruitless. I think diplomacy with Syria to separate it from Iran and Hezbollah might have a long shot at working to lessen the threat. I would direct most diplomatic efforts at Russia and China to get them to withdraw support from Iran and Syria.

geeezzzz, would it kill the lefties here to pay homage to our young men and women who are willing to put themselves in Harm's Way to serve our nation?

You guys are always saying that supporting our troops and supporting the war in Iraq are two different things. But you don't really seem very convincing. You are making two huge mistakes. Refusing to serve yourselves. And slienating all these people who are willing to serve.

Can't you just once praise these people without the "but" part of the argument?

Next it is of the utmost importance importance to identify the enemy and to understand them. The term war on "terror" is a lazy term. A more accurrate term would be "war against Islamic Extremists." We also need to be frank enough to address the fact that we might be at war with Islam

I agree with you about the overly broad phrase "war on terror", but I fail to see why anyone, especially conservatives, would want war with Islam. If anything, liberals should fighting them.

- They believe man should be ruled by god's law rather than man's law.
- They are serious about law and order.
- They are extremely conservative about sexuality.
- Their laws call for harsh punishments to deter crime, and it works.
- They favor the death penalty.
- They are anti-abortion.
- They don't tolerate drugs and alcohol.
- Homosexuality is punishable by the death penalty.
- Fornication and adultery are punishable by flogging.
- They believe that there should be some limits to freedom of speech, in particular where it is blasphemous.

It seems to me that once we get past this business of wanting to kill each other, conservatives and muslims will find they have a lot in common. Perhaps you should go talk to your Muslim neighbors and see what they think, instead of falling onto this slippery slope of dehumanizing the entire Islamic population.

"...but I fail to see why anyone, especially conservatives, would want war with Islam." Posted by: extramedium

Conservatives don't "want" war with Islam. Islam has declared war on all non-Muslims. We are just recognizing reality.

"If anything, liberals should fighting them."-extramedium

You'd think. So why don't they, Extramedium? Seriously.

"Perhaps you should go talk to your Muslim neighbors and see what they think, instead of falling onto this slippery slope of dehumanizing the entire Islamic population."-extramedium

During World War II, we recognized that Nazism was evil. That didn't mean that all Nazis were evil or that they all had to be killed. Today, at the dawn of World War III, some of us recognize that Islam is evil. This doesn't mean that all Muslims are evil. However, those Muslims who adhere to Islam's original writings in the Qu'ran and the Hadiths (or Ahadith) are dangerous-they are the Muslim terrorists and Muslim terrorist supporters/sympathizers. Read the Qur'an and the Ahadith for proof.

"It seems to me that once we get past this business of wanting to kill each other, conservatives and muslims will find they have a lot in common."-extramedium

Sarcasm? Hard to tell with you. Attempting to make a moral equivalence between Christianity and Islam is like trying to make a moral equivalence between good and evil. There isn't one.

Waging jihad and killing infidels are commanded by the Qur'an and is an obligation on all Muslims. Jihad Read the whole thing, or scroll down to "Stage Four" to read what's in store for us infidels, today.

Qur’an:8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”

Freedom - I'd say you fail to make a distinction between normal Muslims and Islamic radicals. The religion of Islam hasn't declared war on anybody. I talk to Muslims every day and they dont want to kill anybody, nor do they support acts of terrorism againist the west. You can't really lump them all together. The radicals are a tiny minority.

The Nazis were a political party, not a religion.

I'm sure you haven't read the Qur'an, other than passages picked out by right-wing pundits. You can't pick out you own passages and make interpretations about the whole religion any more than you can from the Bible. There are plenty of violent sentences in the Bible too, which mean nothing about the character of Christians.

Are you really equating Islam with evil? Is that the general view here at b4b?

- They believe man should be ruled by god's law rather than man's law.

A non-starter, there or here. Never has worked, never will. A couple of thousand years ago, a prophet named Jesus was asked if it was right to pay taxes to the Roman Empire which ruled Israel, tho which he replied:

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s

He took a Roman coin that would be used to pay the tribute and asked whose picture was on it; his questioners answered, “Caesar’s.” The reply of Jesus implied that in using Roman coins, the Jews accepted the rule of the Romans, and so the Roman government had the right to tax them, as long as the Jews were not compromising their religious duties. Jesus’ more general point was, “Give to worldly authorities the things that belong to them, and to God what belongs to God.”

The story is in Matthew 22:15 - 22:22

He was right then, and he's still right today.

- They are serious about law and order.

Must be why its so peaceful and orderly in Baghdad, huh? I hear that Muslim sectarian violence is down to 20-30 killed a day.

- They are extremely conservative about sexuality.

Yea, multiple "wives," molesting under-aged girls, sexual assault as a form of punishment. Real conservative.

- Their laws call for harsh punishments to deter crime, and it works.

I can see you've never been to the Middle East. If you set a cigarette down in an ash tray and turn your head, it will be gone when you turn it back. These "harsh" punishments are what most reasonable people call brutality and torture. Go watch a video of the "morality police" in Iran crushing a 12 year-old boy's arm under the tire of a Jeep for stealing bread. If you think that conservatives thing this is what should be done, you're as nutty as a fruitcake.

- They favor the death penalty.

We also like to breath and eat. We have so much in common, yo.

- They are anti-abortion.

So are Catholics. And most Americans. And most Christians. So what?

- They don't tolerate drugs and alcohol.

Tell me again the #1 cash crop in Afghanistan? Hint: Poppy plants are involved.

- Homosexuality is punishable by the death penalty.

Yea, that's just like us conservatives - liar.

- Fornication and adultery are punishable by flogging.

More BS. You really start to bore us with your inane nonsense.

- They believe that there should be some limits to freedom of speech, in particular where it is blasphemous.

More BS yet. There ARE limits to free speech here in America. You cannot with impunity use hate speech, ethnic slurs, or other kinds of hurtful speech. But its open season on religion, religious people and their culture. And to prove it, we have to sit here and sift through your lies.

Rev

Great post!! You expressed my thoughts. You just expressed them more articulately than I could:)

Rev - I never suggested you'd be inviting radical Islamic terrorists over to your house for bbq (no pork please). My examples were about normal muslims, in stable countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and of course, the future American ally in the middle east - Iraq. I'm also talking about the average Muslim who is your neighbor.

I'm sure we wouldn't be helping the Sunnis and Shiites build a new Iraq if they were inherently a bunch of evil child molesters. You should show a little more respect for our friends in the middle east.

Rev - I never suggested you'd be inviting radical Islamic terrorists over to your house for bbq (no pork please). My examples were about normal muslims, in stable countries like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and of course, the future American ally in the middle east - Iraq. I'm also talking about the average Muslim who is your neighbor.

I'm sure we wouldn't be helping the Sunnis and Shiites build a new Iraq if they were inherently a bunch of evil child molesters. You should show a little more respect for our friends in the middle east.

I never suggested ...

You know, when your relativistic crap is shredded and you are exposed for the phony that you are, it is best not to keep digging in the hole you've created. You will be thought not only to be a liar but a fool too, fool.

Rev - and you have nothing intelligent to say so you've reduced the debate to name calling.

You give your pathetic responses far too much credit...I think you've exposed yourself as nothing more than a bigoted hick.

Rev - and now you have nothing intelligent to say so you've reduced your debate to bluster and name calling.

You give your pathetic refutations far too much credit...I think you've exposed yourself as nothing more than a bigoted hick.

Thanks for the laugh, oh great Exposer and Genius, Keeper of the Absolute Truth, Reverend Scaramonga!

Posted by: Reverend Scaramonga at August 8, 2006 10:57 AM

That was great, Reverend Scaramonga! You really nailed it.

"The religion of Islam hasn't declared war on anybody." Posted by: extramedium

You didn't even bother to click the "Jihad" link did you?

"The Nazis were a political party, not a religion." Posted by: extramedium

Islam is a political movement. Islam is different from what we would normally consider a religion-way different. Islam is different from Christianity or Judaism or many other religions. Islam is a total way of life. I read a quote that sums up Islam quite well: Islam is "a portable theocratic state."

Definition of Islam as a "total way of life": first from a Muslim source and then by two non-Muslim sources:

Muslim American Society
"An Introduction to Islam-The Applied Aspect"
By Dr. Jamal Badawi

How about the application? Are we just talking theology? Since the human is Allah's trustee, it would be inconsistent for a Muslim to separate the various aspects of life, the spiritual and the material, state and religion. We hear a lot about the "five pillars of Islam," but they are often presented as the whole of Islam, many times in a shallow way. They are not the whole of Islam any more than one can claim to have a functional house composed exclusively of five concrete pillars.[..]

What may appear as separate compartments of life simply does not exist for the Muslim. A Muslim does not say, 'This is business and this is moral." Moral, spiritual, economic, social and governmental are inter-related, because everything, including Caesar, belongs to Allah and to Allah alone.
************

"Islam is not only a "religion", but a "total way of life"; there is no distinction between the sacred and the secular, the religious leader is the political leader, and every aspect of the individual life should be Islam: Dress, food, and every detail of the family or social life...-
All about Islam
**************

"...Islam is a total way of life, guided first by the Qur’an and then by the Sunna. All areas of life—religious, economic, social, and political—are addressed, and guidelines for the faithful are provided."-culturalorientation.net
****************

(I'll also throw in a comment from an LGF poster): "I should explain. Islam completely mixes the religious and political. There's no distinction. Islam has its own crappy legal system (shari'a), dictator (caliph), and rules of conduct down to how you wipe your butt (left hand only, with stones)."

Sorry, that first link was broken. Here it is: Muslim American Society

Freedom,

First off, let me say I'll concede your point that Islam is more than a religion. If god's law is your only law, then religion and state are inherently one.

Yes, I did indeed click the Jihad link and read the page. I am aware that subset of Islam has taken this as instruction to wage war against the west - now.

My only issue in any of this is the the statement by b.poster: "We also need to be frank enough to address the fact that we might be at war with Islam itself." "Islam" includes billions of people all over the world, 90% of whom are moderate and want to live in peace with the west.

To say we are at war with all of Islam goes against everything we are trying to do in the middle east and alienates us from the moderate Muslims whose support we will need, once we defeat the radical Islamists.

It is not merely politically incorrect to suggest that we are at war with the whole of Islam - it is just plain incorrect.

"First off, let me say I'll concede your point that Islam is more than a religion. If god's law is your only law, then religion and state are inherently one." Posted by: extramedium

Thanks. I wish the MSM would make this clear to the general public.

"'Islam' includes billions of people all over the world..."

Actually there are approximately 1.2-1.3 billion Muslims around the world. This means that the other 5 billion people of the world are non-Muslims.

Extramedium, you said this... "Yes, I did indeed click the Jihad link and read the page. I am aware that subset of Islam has taken this as instruction to wage war against the west - now."

...and then you came to this conclusion: "It is not merely politically incorrect to suggest that we are at war with the whole of Islam - it is just plain incorrect."

Where's your scriptural proof? What version of the Qur'an do have? You read the Jihad link so, clearly you can see that the Qur'an commands all Muslims to wage jihad against all non-Muslims until the whole world is subdued and Islam is the only religion. This means that Islam itself has declared war against all non-Muslims and that we are indeed at war with Islam. Just because most Muslims aren't actively fighting jihad doesn't mean that they don't approve of the global jihad. The Qur'an commands it, afterall. It's at the heart of their faith.