...suffers some rather intense military humiliaton at the hands of western civilization.

I'm afraid this is the only way, Mark. It's too late for diplomacy to work.

My question is: Why are we sleeping? The western world needs to wake up fast--these radicals are indocrinating their children into a life of hate...

keefer, not everyone is sleeping. Some of us are watching what is currently happening, with some hope and a lot of fear. That humiliating loss could well be in the area of nuclear attack by Isreal on Iran.

kj,

I wasn't referring to those of us who obviously see the bigger threat; I was referring to those here and abroad who, for reasons that I can't discern, choose to ignore what could be beginning of WWIII. As for Israel using nukes on Iran, I don't think so. You're starting to sound like "Freedom1."

On the question of "pride" there's plenty of that to go around. Yes, the Moslems need a Reformation, but the performance of the Christian Right in the USA over the past 7 or 8 years would indicate that they could use some reform as well. The longer the wars in Iraq and Lebanon go on, the worse it will get. It's time to talk and to stop killing the children. Peace

This is a long standing problem everywhere, not just in the middle east. Folks finding ways to blame others for their own shortcomings, or for not going out and learning what they need to learn. (Heck I know I'm guilty of this too.)

Whether it's "minorities" here blaming their lack of education on the government or folks in the middle east blaming all their woes on the west the results are the same. Nothing is done and their situation does not improve.

As for Israel using nukes on Iran, I don't think so. You're starting to sound like "Freedom1." Posted by: keefer

I've NEVER said that Israel should nuke Iran. I've said that Israel should militarily destroy Iran's nuclear facilities. Big difference.

Keefer, it sounds like you're being played by someone. That someone isn't me. Leave me out of your paranoia. It's getting old.

Okay, "Freedom," I'll leave you alone. I was just playing on some of your earlier posts about all Muslims being evil. Sorry for the misunderstanding...

Mark:
You stated "The only eventual cure for all this is for the Moslem world to humble themselves and realise that they have much to learn"

I can't resist, I have to imitate somebody here. Here goes:

MAH HA HA HA!! IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!

Canuck,

This is actually quite important - the Moslems who fight us will have to give up their idea that they are God's chosen masters of the world...if they don't, then eventually we really will have to kill them all.

C.O. From someone in YOUR military. I didn't know you lived in vancouver C.O., or was it you canukguy?:

"As a 23-year-old soldier in the Canadian Forces it takes a lot to shock me but what still shocks me time and time again is the utter ignorance of Canadians in this country!! Here's a good example...
Having just finished a tour of duty in Afghanistan, I am back in Canada goiing to college and working a crappy retail job for a store in downtown Vancouver which I will not mention by name. Yesterday was my first day back to work after 6 months and I was still re-learning the ropes of the job when a customer approached me to buy some merchandise. As usual, I checked them through only to be rudely informed by this customer that the item was on sale....which it was. I simply apologized, adding that I've been on military duty overseas since January and wasn't aware of some of the pricing changes towhich this dipship customer replied "I don't care where the hell you've been, you outta know the prices if you work here."
Okay, so yes I was beyond mad at hearing such an ignorant remark from some fuckhead who would probably be last (behind the french) to volunteer to serve our country. Unfortunately, however, this off the cuff remark just goes to re-enforce the belief that most soldiers have--that the majority of Canadians are a bunch of spoiled, ungrateful assholes who don't deserve to live in this country! So to that dipshit customer I met yesterday, I invite you to approach any military man in the real world and voice your opinions on the Canadian military. Then, as your pulling your fist out of your own ass, maybe you'll reconsider its people like me that protect your right to be a dipshit!"

http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=98630

You know, it's amazing how many hits I got by seaching "canadians are assholes."

Okay, "Freedom," I'll leave you alone. I was just playing on some of your earlier posts about all Muslims being evil. Posted by: keefer

I NEVER said all Muslims are evil. I said ISLAM IS EVIL. Your reading comprehension sucks, keefer.

Kahn:

Nope, not me, I am an East Coaster.
I am as outraged as that young soldier for the ignorant way he was spoken too.

However I disagree with the statement: "that the majority of Canadians are a bunch of spoiled, ungrateful assholes who don't deserve to live in this country". Probably true for the majority of the Muslim immigrants though.

kahn

No matter where you go, you will run into rude, selfish people - even in Canada. I think you will find that the majority here support our brave men & women in the military.

We have suffered losses in Afghanistan; some soldiers lost during combat and some due to attacks from American friendly fire. Our hope is for a peaceful conclusion with no more deaths on any side.

You all need to check in with Andrison Cooper, who has just found out, to his total amazement---now get ready for this, it's quite a shocker---that HEZBOLLAH IS ANTI-SEMETIC!!!

He and his 'reporter' were so stunned by this reveleation, they were totally bumfuddled. Who woulda thunk it? And to top it off, they COME RIGHT OUT AND ADMIT IT!!!!! Guess it takes some top investigative digging to get to that, eh? Thank God we got some professionals on the job.

Show of hands, here----how many of you knew that Islamic radicals hated and wanted to kill Jews? Yep, I figured we would get a unanimous vote on that. So why are the Big Guys just figuring it out?

Well, anti-Semeticism is, after all, Hateful. And Hate is bad. Kill a guy because he's bonking your wife, that's one thing. Kill him because you HATE him for bonking your wife, now that's really bad. Kill him because you hate him for bonking your wife and oh by the way he happens to be of a different race or ethnic background, and all of a sudden he's deader and you're badder and it all goes into a far more serious category.

So how can the Left deal with a HATE-motivated group which happens to be attacking another group they don't have any use for? ('Zionists' for those who missed a post on another thread---code for "Jews' which we are allowed to dislike thoroughly as long as we pretend we don't, and which we can't identify because we might be able to be anti-Zionist and keep the Jewish vote but if we admit we are anti-Jewish we might lose a few of them.)

You guys are just so funny. Watching you tap-dancing around all the intricate rules and definitions you keep setting up and then revising to accommodate your biases and prejudices and hatreds and antis is just a hoot.

Islam is a religion based on violence, hatred, intolerance, and domination. Those who follow its original writings are dangerous to society as a whole. While you lefties are working out a way to disguise your love for any movement that causes Bush harm, you overlook the fact that Islam believes that once the world is thrown into a worldwide state of chaos and bloodshed and agony and death, the path will be cleared for the return of the 12th Imam, who will herald the triumph of Islam over the world.

The shortcut to a worldwide state of chaos and bloodshed and agony and death is, quite simply, nuclear weapons. This is not a philosophy which desires to rule a world which has remained somewhat intact, making MADD a feasible approach. No, this is a philosophy which desires the most destruction and death possible, because of a belief in a prediction. And it is ruled, for now, by a head of state who sees his role in human and divine history as the man who can bring this all about, who yearns to go down in Muslim history as a hero, as the man who destroyed the world and in doing so elevated Islam.

While you all are being all girly and threatened by an imagined and invented "American Theocracy" ruled over by the imagined and invented "Religious Right", there is a true theocracy in Iran, which is getting stronger by the minute, and which has as its stated goal the destruction not only of Israel but of the United States, and whose leader is committed to establishing the groundwork for the return of the 12th Imam, which requires the destruction of most of the world and the killing of all infidels.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

The only Canadians I know personally are from the West, from the farming and ranching (and OIL!!!!!) lands of Alberta. And I love them. But then they have no use for what they scornfully refer to as "those toffee-nosed fairies from keh-bec".

Being a Yank, I'm not quite sure what "toffee-nosed" translates to, but the general meaning was quite clear. Not high praise.

I study history, have visited the beaches and battlefields of Normandy, including Juno, where the Canadians showed the world the meaning of courage, and have the highest regard for what I think of as the "True Candadian"---that is, the Canadian of yore, who had values and courage and would fight for what was right. I am so deeply sorry to see the vapid limp-wristed whiny socialism of so much of Europe and even parts of our fair land taking root in Canada. But I choose to believe they do not represent the true Canadian. Sgt. Preston was no lefty, eh? The Iditarod was not run by toffee-nosed fairies. And as an Avalanche fan, I have the deepest gratitude for Canada's contribution to our Stanley Cups.

But I do have a question: What is the name of the hockey giant who started the chain of donut shops in Canada? It has been driving me nuts. I went there often when up in the Great North, and now I can't think of the name. A custard-filled chocolate-glazed concoction would set my mind straight, but it's a long long way.....

The only Canadians I know personally are from the West, from the farming and ranching (and OIL!!!!!) lands of Alberta. And I love them. But then they have no use for what they scornfully refer to as "those toffee-nosed fairies from keh-bec".

Being a Yank, I'm not quite sure what "toffee-nosed" translates to, but the general meaning was quite clear. Not high praise.

I study history, have visited the beaches and battlefields of Normandy, including Juno, where the Canadians showed the world the meaning of courage, and have the highest regard for what I think of as the "True Candadian"---that is, the Canadian of yore, who had values and courage and would fight for what was right. I am so deeply sorry to see the vapid limp-wristed whiny socialism of so much of Europe and even parts of our fair land taking root in Canada. But I choose to believe they do not represent the true Canadian. Sgt. Preston was no lefty, eh? The Iditarod was not run by toffee-nosed fairies. And as an Avalanche fan, I have the deepest gratitude for Canada's contribution to our Stanley Cups.

But I do have a question: What is the name of the hockey giant who started the chain of donut shops in Canada? It has been driving me nuts. I went there often when up in the Great North, and now I can't think of the name. A custard-filled chocolate-glazed concoction would set my mind straight, but it's a long long way.....

"Islam is a religion based on violence, hatred, intolerance, and domination. Those who follow its original writings are dangerous to society as a whole."-by: Almiranta

Excellent post, Almiranta, especially the above.

"Islam is a religion based on violence, hatred, intolerance, and domination. Those who follow its original writings are dangerous to society as a whole."-by: Almiranta

Excellent post, Almiranta, especially the above.

Your reading comprehension sucks, keefer.

It sure does; I feel so stupid. Please forgive me, R...I mean, Freedom1.

---that HEZBOLLAH IS ANTI-SEMETIC!!!

I heard the sound bites on Rush yesterday; can you believe those two kooks? It's as if they view Hezbollah as just apolitical party, and not as a terror organization. Speaking of that, Hannity had some kook from The Nation on today, debating David Horowitz, and when the kook called the Hizbo's "bad guys, but not a terror group," Hannity reminded him of all the terrorist attacks the Hizbo's acknowledged in the past. The kooks response was something to the affect that "that was then..."

These kooks don't get it.

I am allowed to say "kooks" here still, aren't I?

Finally...an arab voice of reason from the middle east.

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

Hopefully all of you leftist anti-semitic apologists for islamofascist terrorism will watch this.

But I do have a question: What is the name of the hockey giant who started the chain of donut shops in Canada?

Would Tim Hortons be it?

Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorius triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.
Theodore Roosevelt

*Chuckles*

I think kooks is just fine there keefer. I too listen to the clips Rush played and just shook my head. Who would ever believe that those activly killing Jews would be anti-semetic?

If you want a real good read on Arab pride read this.

http://denbeste.nu/cd_log_entries/2002/09/Whoisourenemy.shtml

For those who been around blogs a while you may know his work...for those who dont enjoy.

It looks like pride, but I wonder if it isn't more about their certainty and fatalism, everything "if Allah wills it." Theirs is a failure to be optimistic, to see the future as uncertain. I'm not sure we can expect it to change because their deferring spiritual style is one that copes well with crises. It's just ironic that their deferring spiritual style and fatalism keep leading them into more crises, and a wicked feedback loop that catches us across the face before bouncing back on them.

I think the more you talk about WWIII and a strong use of military the closer you come to making it happen. Why can't we just defend ourself and stay out of these other countries. Isn't that what "Defense" means. Yes these coutries are screwed up and that's their business. When we staret getting involved we create a huge mess like Iraq which has made things musch worse and brought WWIII closer. Go after terrorist in a strong way when they are identified; but don't attack the entire Moslem World. We have had very little terrorist activity here since 911 and that isn't because of Iraq.

I think the more you talk about WWIII and a strong use of military the closer you come to making it happen. Why can't we just defend ourself and stay out of these other countries. Isn't that what "Defense" means. Yes these coutries are screwed up and that's their business. When we staret getting involved we create a huge mess like Iraq which has made things musch worse and brought WWIII closer. Go after terrorist in a strong way when they are identified; but don't attack the entire Moslem World. We have had very little terrorist activity here since 911 and that isn't because of Iraq.

"We have had very little terrorist activity here since 911 and that isn't because of Iraq."

No Bob its not just because Iraq. Its because of a lot of things. You see Bob its a complex problem and requires much more complex thinking than the simplistic senario that you present.

I think that the reason liberals can't understand the terrorist commitment and willingness to fight - is that they don't have and have never experienced that level of commitment in their own lives.

I know that there are exceptions to every rule. But look how liberals have been and continue to stay away from military service in droves. They are not committed to defending this nation with their own blood. They throw disdain on those who are. So, is it any surprise that they are clueless about others?

I've been saying for a while that liberals are making a HUGE mistake by refusing to serve. It leaves them with no real world experience. As evidenced by their half-cocked posts.

Almiranta,
That whole 12 IMAM thing sounds a lot like the second coming of Jesus Christ and the Millenial reign.
And I read in another comment that if Islam doesn't recognize that God has not chosen them to rule the world that WE will have to kill all of them. Doesn't that presume the belief that God has chosen US to rule the world?
The only difference here seems to be the religion in question and the availability of military power.
Perhaps Islamofascism isn't the only movement that needs to examine itself for pride. Carl Jung was right. We are most angered by our own faults reflected in the actions of others.

"But look how liberals have been and continue to stay away from military service in droves. They are not committed to defending this nation with their own blood. They throw disdain on those who are."
No one has shown more distain for the United States Military than the present administration. None of whom have served themselves. And you might find if you looked closely that many more "liberals" have served in the military than the current crop of arm chair cultur warriors that make up popular conservatism.
When I was in I worked for at least three senior enlisted who strongly disagreed with Reagan's foriegn and domestic policies. That was in fact the beginning of my own journy toward becoming a "liberal".
Also, in case you hadn't noticed, we "liberals" are not ridiculing those who do serve. No matter what we may think of those who are misusing thatb service.

You hit the nail squarely on the head with your 12:32 post, ianitbacchus. When you don't have a dog in the religious hunt, it's pretty easy to see--of course, if you do have a dog in said hunt, then you're rather blind to the hypocrisy.

iaintbacchus - pay attention to what is really being said and done. Look at Murthas attacks on the Marines. Go to the string on that and read Ash's comments.

This blog has become a haven for hate/blame-America kooks...

This blog has become a haven for hate/blame-America kooks..

Did you file a complaint at abuse@blogsforbush.com ? Read the red text just above the comment entry area. If they get enough complaints, they will likely take action. But if no one complains...well you must not be too offended is what they probably think.

iaintbacchus,
Come again? I know you may be getting the bad end of old propaganda from Kerry, but the VA has had its budget inreased twice as fast" as it was under Clinton. Why if our President has "disdain" for our troops did they overwhelmingly vote for him in the last election? Do you remember who wanted to have overseas' troops votes thrown out in the 2000 election? It wasn't Bush. Now maybe you think our soldiers are too stupid to see he has disdain for them when in fact the ones they have disdain for are liberals who require our troops fight with at least one hand tied behind their backs, obeying the Geneva Convention 99% of the time against enemies who never signed the thing. That's disdain, saying that our soldiers lives are less important than the rights of terrorists.

iaintbacchus - I was in the Marines under Carter AND Reagan. We were having pretty poor times under Carter. Reagan, came in with the idea that if he up'd the spending he could break the Soviet Union (ever hear of it? Big country? Nuclear weapons? Controlled half of Europe? Hated us?)HIS PLAN WORKED. There is no more Soviet Union. Germany is whole again. And a lot of those eastern European nations are now in NATO.

Soooooo..... What exactly was wrong with his foreign policy? Because i don't get it.