Excellently written. Hizbollah could stop the Israeli attacks tody by releasing the kidnapped soldiers and by halting firing rockets at Israel.

Hizbollah could stop the Israeli attacks tody by releasing the kidnapped soldiers and by halting firing rockets at Israel.

I fear you're right--and then they'd regroup, re-arm, and re-attack...

kahn,

Your quite right. Only the anti-Israel pro Hezbollah will disagree with that. They may not outright admit to it. They may just blame Israel and hold Israel responsible, cry about the human shields, (the innocent civilians)and otherwise blame Israel for this or that destruction or violence against humanity. And noticeably not hold Hezbollah responsible for much if anything, when they started it continue to provoke.

It is because we pretend the stupid are worth listening to...

I put, at the very least, Steve (peace) and Wade in this catagory, and I pretend no such thing. I don't think the rest of our resident Lefties are stupid so much as they're, well, Libs. I don't even object to Liberals disagreeing with what has to be done. After all, that's what Libs do when what has to be done involves anything but dialogue. I just hope, when the going gets really tough, that they get the hell out of the way.

Great article, BTW. Mona Charen, as usual, nails it.

Not quiting is a good thing. This is a vicious enemy who is bound and determined to destroy and or enslave us. This enemy must be either defeated or some how contained. Before we can formulate the proper strategy we need to understnad this enemy. I don't think we or the Israelis fully understand this enemy. The enemy is not "terrorism." "War on Terror" is a lazy term. Terrorism is a method of attack. It would be more accurate to say we are at war with nations who support terrorism in the name of Islam. These would be Iran, Syria, and Lebanon. There is likely a very good reason why UN Resolution 1559 was never enforce. The Lebanese either liked Hezbollah or were sympathetic to them even before the war started. Also it cannot be over stressed that the enemies behind Iran and Syria are Russia and China.

Once it is understood that the goals of this enemy is the complete destruction or subjigation of those who refuse to bend the knee to them and we understand who they are, it will become much eaiser to formulate a strategy for eitehr victory or containmnet of this enemy. Personally I prefer victory but if the American people are unwilling to make the sacrifices that are necessary to achieve complete victory containment may be our only option.

In the long run it will be far healthier for our society to be able to speak openly about who our enemies are, what their goals are, and what they are capable of achieving.

I like the term "glide path" to describe the rapidly accelerating descent into vapidity, silliness, and general weakness. I usually use the term "death spiral" but "glide path" may be a better description, at least till it picks up more velocity.

One (of the oh so many) Unintended Consquences of Liberal obtuseness is based on their demands for gentle and loving treatment of prisoners. That is, simply, there will be fewer prisoners. When the military realizes that those they take captive will be released to be given another chance to kill them, they will simply make sure that there are no survivors to capture.

An Unintended Consequence of letting the enemy know how SENSITIVE we are and how UPSET we get at the sight of killed children is that they then will play on that emotional reaction in the West and make sure more children are in harm's way. We tell them that the more children killed, the more we will pressure Israel to back off. Are we surprised when they pay attention? (No, I am not saying we should not be upset at the sight of killed children. I am merely saying that telegraphing the fact that we will allow images of killed children dictate our policies is very bad strategy. And more to the point, that it encourages them to make sure more children get killed.)

What do you think the result would be of a Western unity in presenting the photos of dead and wounded children as part of articles on the cowardice and inhumanity of keeping children in identified bombing zones, and hiding behind them? What do you think the result would be of this kind of approach over years and years of such actions? Do you think it possible that this kind of coverage would tend to strip the terrorists of their pretense of being "honorable"? Do you think that once they learned that the wanton sacrifice of innocent young children had the effect of turning world opinion against THEM they would allow the mothers to take the children to safety?

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

- John Stuart Mill, In Fear

“This is a vicious enemy who is bound and determined to destroy and or enslave us.”

That is hogwash. They want the Jews out of the Mideast, and they will keep on attacking until they succeed.

Here is what Bush should do. Relocate all the Jews from Israel to Texas. Since we stole Texas from Mexico, it wont be a big deal to turn Texas into the new nation of Israel.

Israel would be next to her best trading partner. The weather is hot and dry. Texas has plenty of wrath of god calamities such as tornados, hurricanes and locus, so the Jews will feel right at home. Best of all, Israel would have no problem taking advantage of the cheap Mexican labor force, which will solve our illegal immigration problem.

As a bonus, the Arabs would love us like Allah.

Barneyg2000,

You're joking, right?

Have you looked at a map lately? The whole of the Arab world comprises 5,000,000 square miles. Israel comprises 8,000 square miles. Don't you think there is room in the non-Israeli 4,992,000 square miles for the Arab Palestinians?

Have you read a little history of the Jewish state? The Jews have lived in the area presently known as Israel for over 3,000 years. So who's land is it? I would certainly say that the Israelis have a legitimate claim to the land.

Look also at the political reality of the region. Israel is a westernized democracy thriving in the midst of Arab/Muslim theoracies/dictatorships. The Islamo-Fascists wish for an entire Middle East devoid of democracy.

Look also at the economic reality of the region. The Israeli Per Capita Income is about $25,000. That of its neighbors is around $5,000. There wouldn't be any economic envy or jealousy motivating the terrorist, would there? The only way, prior to 2003, for an Arab/Islamo-Fascist to earn $25,000 was to have a family member commit a suicide-bombing against Israel.

Israel would be next to her best trading partner. The weather is hot and dry. Texas has plenty of wrath of god calamities such as tornados, hurricanes and locus, so the Jews will feel right at home. Best of all, Israel would have no problem taking advantage of the cheap Mexican labor force, which will solve our illegal immigration problem.

Does anyone, besides myself, find this incoherent paragraph a bit racist?

If this were my blog, ol' Barn would be banished for these comments...

A10, is it a joke? The whole situation is a joke. You have two sides that claim that their god gave the land to them, and neither side is willing to budge.

Israel is profitable not because of mineral wealth or oil, but by finance, technology and commerce. They can achieve that here (New Israel) as well, and they would be in a friendly environment.

Let the Arabs have it. Once the Jews are gone, the Arabs can back to killing each other (Sunni vs. Shiites).

"The Jews have lived in the area presently known as Israel for over 3,000 years. So who's land is it?"

Native Americans have lived in the area presently known as the United States for over 3,000 years. So who's land is it?

If a foreign government told you to give up your home to the descendents of Chief Sitting Bull because it is their historic right to live there, I'm sure you would pack in a minute.

Look. I'm not arguing the importance of having Israel as our ally in the region, but the historic rights argument wears a bit thin when you think about it. The Palistinians had been living there for the past 1,000 years or so before being forcibly displaced.

"This is a vicious enemy who is bound and determined to destroy and or enslave us.”

---That is hogwash.

Blarney,

Are you deaf, dumb, and blind? Haven't you heard from the Islamo-Fascists that their goal is to convert, subjugate, or kill all infidels? Do you really believe this is all about forcing the Jews from their homeland?

There are many similarities between the current struggle between the civilized West and the Islamo-Fascists and World War II.

1. During WWII, we had Germany, Italian, and Japanese (the Axis) facsists with sights on global domination. Today, we have Islamo-Fascists with sights on global domination.

2. During WWII, the Axis Fascists committed genocide against the Jews. Today's Islamo-Fascists are committing genocide against Jews and Christians.

3. During WWII, there were many who wanted the US to stay neutral and use appeasement to placate the Axis Fascists. Today, we have the liberal left wanting to use appeasement to placate the Islamo-Fascist states and terrorists.

4. Before WWII, treaties and agreements were made with the Axis Fascists limiting the growth of their military, agreements that the Axis Fascists systematically violated. In the past decade, treaties and agreements have been made with countries who support terrorism to limit the growth of it's military capabilities. These agreement were immediately violated. The North Korean systematically violated the agreement negotiated by the Clinton Administration and began to enrich uranium in quest of a nuclear weapon. The ceasefire with Iraq negotiated in 1991, was systemically violated by Saddam throughout the next decade.

5. On December 7, 1941, the Japanese Fascists launched an unprovoked attack against the US at Pearl Harbor. 2471 Americans and others died in the attack. The next day, Germany declared war on the US. On September 11, 2001, Islamo-Fascists hijacked four airliners and crashed them into the WTC, the Pentagon, and into a Pennsylvania field. Nearly 3000 American and others died in the attack. The Islamo-Fascists had declared full-scale war on Western Civilization (they actually had been in a state of war against the West for decades).

Here is where the similarities differ.

After the Attack on Pearl Harbor, almost all Americans united in the fight against the Axis Fascists. We recognized the threat that Fascism posed to the world. The economic, industrial, and technoligical might of the United States was unleashed. Due to the blood and treasure expended by Americans (with the help of the Brits, Canadians, Australians, etc), we defeated the Fascists. We did this by bombing the military and civilian populations of the Axis Fascists into submission. Millions of civilians died during WWII. Some by design, some as a result of failing to evacuate from areas of military importance.

Today, we are not united in the fight against Islamo-Fascists. There is only one reason for this: the liberal left. The left does not believe that we are at war. They do not beleive that we need to use our military to stop terrorism. They believe that we are in a war for imperialism. They believe that we can negotiate, appease, or reach a truce with the Islmao-Fascists. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The Islamo-Fascist terrorists do not to negotiate, unless it places us in a position of weakness, so they can attack us again with even greater casualties. They do not want to live in peace with the "infidels". They have stated that they are on a jihad to kill all non-believers. There is only one way to deal with the Islamo-Fascists. It is the same way we dealt with the Axis Fascists. You kill enough of them so that the remainder see that their dream of global conquest is impossible and they give up and renounce terrorism and their jihad. It worked quite well with Germany, Italy, and Japan. It will work with those states who support global terrorism.

Keefer, I am not racist towards Israel or Jews, Texans on the other hand…

I was just pointing out the similarities between Texas and Israel. Texas is dry like Israel, and you would only have to give 8,500 Sqr miles of Texas’s 268,000 total Sqr miles of land to equal the same size as Israel. How about from Houston down? Houston and Israel are both about 30 degrees north latitude, and the Gulf can substitute for the Mediterranean.

If anyone could swing it, Bush could.

Multi-pouch vest/belt from the sporting goods department at Walmart - $25.00

AA batteries and triggering device from Radio Shack - $5.00 each

Detonators and C-4 from your friendly Russian or Chinese arms dealer - $100.00 each and $1,000/pound

The only way, prior to 2003, for an Arab/Islamo-Fascist to earn $25,000 was to have a family member commit a suicide-bombing against Israel. PRICELESS

What about these civilian deaths--this is why we must prevail!!!

What about these civilian deaths--this is why we must prevail!!!

Barney,

Your comments are not appropriate and they are over the top.

Retired Spook,

Touche

keefer, keefer

We heard you the first time. No need to repeat yourself.

As you admonished Winnowhead re. multiple posts:

"Once--that's all it takes, if you exercise some patience.

Either kill them now, or they attack later...

Either kill them now, or they attack later...

"What about these civilian deaths?"

What civilian deaths? These 'civilians' were warned to leave he area at the start of this conflict. These 'civilians'have tolerate, nay supported and encourage Hizzbullah in the midst. These 'civilians' are the same shown in pictures manning anti-aircraft batteries and missle launchers. These 'civilians' are the same men, women, and children who are shown proudly marching with Kalashnikovs or strapped with suicide vests in pro-Hizbullah anti-Israel rallies.

Any innocents left that area long ago. In case anyone forgot, south Lebanon was predominantly CHRISTIAN. They were run out and their land was taken by Hizbullah. What about them???

As far as I am concerned, all land between the Litani River and the Israeli border is a free fire zone and Israel should carpet bomb and then mine the area so that it is completely uninhabitable.

Why are you comparing 9/11 to Pearl Harbor?

Under your 'differences' paragraph you missed the fact that the organization responsible was not a sovereign nation. They take money from irresponsible governments but they are not in control of any nation.

You need to stop pretending that terrorist groups are simply clever facades for Middle Eastern nations. The 'Islamo-Fascists' can't be dealt with by slaughtering people who have nothing to do with them. That would be what started this entire situation to begin with.

You kill their people and you become the bad guy. You take their land and you become the bad guy. Guess what Israel did? Oh snap! We must be the bad guys over there right?

This situation would be played out in any other region in the world in pretty much the same way. If another nation came and took New Jersey what do you think the Christian Militias would do about that? How about if they went to war with the surrounding states and bombed the civilians and state governments into submission?

Israel screwed the pooch by kicking out all the Palestinians. Now they get to sit there and take the missle attacks and terrorist bombings. You know why? Because it is their own fault. Every time they go to war with a surrounding country they aren't fixing anything, they are simply prolonging this. This is going to be a cross generational conflict because these children are going to watch Israels kill their parents for a vague reason.

This won't end until Iran nukes Israel and ruins the land for everybody. Remember in Kindergarden when everyone fought over the same toy until it tore apart? This is the adult version of that.

A10, just one thing to add, the Axis Facists did attack Christians, just not as many as the Islamo-Facists are now.

I hit "refresh" instead of going elswhere; that's the reason for the double post. However, what concerns me more is that the statement I double posted was supposed to be a link. I'm gonna try it again...

One more try...

It didn't work, so here's the site: http://www.olivetreeviews.org/topics/movies/attack.html

Check it out, Spook. You too, Sally; you may learn a thing or two...

Barney

This is a vicious enemy who wants to destroy and or enslave us. All you have to do is read about what they say to each other. Also read about what they say on Palestinian tv, furthermore, their alliance with Russia and China makes them even more deadly. It would be unethical to sacrifice Israel so you or anyone else can have peace. Besides it would not work any way. It would work about as well as giving land to Hitler worked. Its pretty simple. They want to destroy us. We don't want to be destroyed. They want to rule us. We don't want to be ruled by them. Until this changes, their is no starting point for negotiations.

Also, I'm from Texas. From your comments you don't know much about Texas. It is true that part of Texas is hot and dry. This is in the west Texas area, however, this makes up only one part of Texas. The Houston area where I live is extremely humid. The climate in Texas is very diverse depending upon what part you live in.

Finally, as a Christian, sacrificing Israel would be unacceptable. Even if I were not it would still be unacceptable. If the American leadership really thought this would work, they would have already tried to do it by now. Frankly, their are some people in the American government who would probably love to see Israel disappear. The fact that the Arabs control large amounts of oil and the fear of terrorist attacks speaks pretty loudly. If we were to find another source of oil, say in Israel, we would probably see the political calculations change.

In other words, in order to ensure an uninterupted flow of oil and to live in temporaray safety from terrorist attacks much of the world would be quite willing to sacrifice Israel.

Condoleezza Rice has been made to look like the village-idiot by her friends the Zionists and the neo-cons. Peace

Keefer, do you know how long a 7 mb file takes to download with a dial-up modem? I won't live that long. Just tell me what it says.

CO,
you don't want to tally the double posts I have observed from you. If that is the most you can offer, try thinking a little about thread.
Barney,
At first I just thought you were poorly informed, but after your post regarding moving the jewish people to Texas, I can't decide if you are evil or mentally ill.HMMMMM! Maybe both, definitely anti-semetic.

Spook,

You need to get with the times; cable modems are wonderful. The video is about 9/11.

"I believe the Left has been wrong on virtually every great moral issue in the last 30 years. During that period, it was wrong on the Cold War—it devoted far more energy to fighting anti-communism than to fighting communism. It was wrong for attacking Israel for its destruction of Saddam Hussein's nuclear reactor. It was wrong on welfare. It was wrong in its demanding less morally and intellectually from black Americans than from all other Americans. It was wrong in advocating bilingual education for children of immigrants. It was wrong in generally holding American society rather than violent criminals responsible for violent crime. It was wrong in imposing its view on abortion on America through the courts rather than through the democratic process... It was wrong in identifying 'flag waving' with fascism. It was wrong in supporting the teachers' unions rather than students and educational reform. It was wrong in allying itself with trial lawyers and blocking tort reform. It was wrong in blocking the military from recruiting on campuses and teaching a generation of young Americans that 'war is not the answer' when war is at times the one moral answer... In just about every instance, one could say that the Left was foolish, the Left was naive, the Left was wrong, even that the Left was dangerous." —Dennis Prager

marys:

but after your post regarding moving the jewish people to Texas

marys, I was scolded yesterday for not recognizing hyperbole, so with respect I propose that Barneys post was hyperbolic.

Great column. It is the truth!

Let's take a little trip down Barney lane for second here and perform a little mental exercise.

Say for a moment the USA gives up 10,00 square miles, just to give them a bit more, of land to give to the Israelies. Heck, we'll even put it down on the Gulf of Mexico like he suggests.

After months/years of negotiations and talks we get all the Jews out of Israel and give the land to the Palestinians.

What do you honestly think will happen to old Israel? To the USA? Middle East in general?

Here's my guesses:
I think old Israel will crumble and become run down as the Palestians ruin everything that was there. Not neccissarilly because they want to destroy it but through poor management and maintanence.

The USA would have lots of complaints but would probably quickly acclimate to the new neighbor and quickly adjust to the changing economic factors. Areas near the "New Israel" would probably increase in per capita and quality of life.

The Middle East would then focus all of it's attention on the uppity Iraqi's. I'll assume we pulled out of Iraq by this point and used those resources to move the Israelies. Anything we can do to appease the "Insurgents" I suppose. Within a year or so a coup would occur and a new dictor would rise to power in Iraq, probably backed by Iran in an effort to make Iraq a puppet government. Soon things would be "buisness as usual" in the middle east.

I would say that within 3 years of us removing everything from the Middle east the "Insurgants" would start attacking Western assets again. Probably claiming "foreign influence" as their cover this time.

I wonder, if this scenario actually went down like this would Barney still not bleieve these guys want us all dead no matter where we are? Probably, but I could be wrong. Though this is all just mental gymnastics since none of this will happen.

Posted by: A-10 at July 31, 2006 04:07 PM

Nice, A-10. Well said!

CO,
you don't want to tally the double posts I have observed from you. If that is the most you can offer, try thinking a little about thread

mary s

I try not to double post, so perhaps you are thinking of someone else. My comments to keefer were to remind him that he is just as likely to make a mistake as anyone he so quickly criticizes.

Heh, heh, Gozer. I think you're right, although I don't think it would even take 3 years for the jihadis to attack us. Two years, tops.

Blarney's childish glee in proving once again how silly he can be is not amusing. The stupidist part of an entirely stupid post was the claim that the Arabs "just" want the Jews our of their part of the world.

Secular Islam wants each and every infidel dead. Jew, Christian, atheist, waffler, and Muslim who does not fit the precise and very narrow definition of whoever is holding the sword regarding his or her commitment to Islam. Dead. All dead. Their only mandate is to kill all infidels.

It has nothing to do with oil. It has nothing to do with who is where. It is only about who is and who is not a Muslim.

The only connection radical Islam has with oil is the belief that Allah gave them oil so the decadent West would finance its own destruction.

If Israel were to be relocated anywhere on the globe, it would still be a target of radical secular Islam. (I call it 'secular' because it is really more of a political movement than a religion,if one defines religion as being about redemption and salvation.)

"Love us like Allah"? See, you just proved my theory about the important role controlled substances play in the postings of the Left illiterati. And no, don't bother to claim you were really being 'funny' and I just didn't get it. You never got within miles of funny.

The War on Lebanon was not the retaliation for the kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers.
A senior Israeli army officer began giving PowerPoint presentations to diplomats and think tanks more than a year ago setting out the plan for the current operation in revealing detail. The fact that Israel was so accurate in targeting Lebanon’s infrastructure proves they had been prepared for this assault for some time.
The interesting thing is Bush’s overhead conversation with Blair shows that he believes that the attack is retaliation. How could a president not know that this was Israel’s war of choice? He must have looked like the village idiot at the G-8.

It has nothing to do with oil.

Yeah, right. Without oil where would the money come from for the radicals to purchase and build the weapons they are now using against Israel?

Without oil they would be just Middle Eastern poor imitations of the guy who used to sit behind home plate with the John 3:16 sign. (No offense Jeremiah)

Jose

A mortal enemy of Israel had set up shop accross their border. This was known about for some time even before the kidnapping of soldiers. As such, there will be a plan in place to deal with this.

Israel's top trading partner, the EU, is not going to allow Israel to bomb things willy nilly. The US would not allow this either. The big question now is will they provide Israel with diplomatic cover to allow them time to complete the mission or will they work to force Israel into a premature cease fire?

Ash

Oil does play a role. Even if a country does not buy middle eastern oil, the Arab Shieks can significantly affect the price they will pay for the oil they do purchase. This combined with the fear of terrorist attacks goes a long way to explaining why many people are so willing to sacrifice Israel.

Jose

One other thing. If Israel is to win, they will probably need to commit large numbers of ground troops. If they are unwilling to see this through to completeion they should not have gone in. The US did not commit enough ground troops to Iraq and still has not rectified this. They need to learn from the US's errors.

You ask how the president could not know this was Israel's war of choice. I already explained that Hezbollah had set up shop with thousands of rockets accross the border from them and Lebanon made no attempt to stop this. As such, prudent national interest would dictate a plan would be in place to deal with this. George W> Bush will not "know" what Israel is planning. Israel is a soverign country. The US president will not be privy to the internal workings of Israel. Generally it would also be standard practice not to meddle in the affairs of your ally.

I try not to double post

Too bad the troll doesn't try harder not to single post too.