Yes, this disgusts me. And since she is found NG for being INSANE, then her husband should be found GUILTY for enabling and abiding an insane person taking care of their children.

Either is an idiot and should not be breeding, or he knew she was not capable of caring for his kids.

All disgusting, all the way around.

Matt,
What makes you so angry? That a woman who was suffering from a worsening mental condition each time she got pregnant and had a child? Or the husband that refused to believe that keeping her pregnant like that was causing the problem? She belongs where she is going until she is past childbearing age. She is ill, and the other person cupable in these deaths is a husband who discouraged her from taking meds that might have helped and encouraged her to keep getting pregnant. Read the woman's history, and the medical information on post-partum depression.

She may have saved the kids from Hell, but she's on Satan's waiting list...

She may have saved the kids from Hell, but she's on Satan's waiting list...

Matt, I have to echo the sentiment of kjstrouble. Why does this make you so angry?

Here's what her husband -- the man who had his children murdered -- had to say before this second trial:

Rusty, who filed for divorce last summer, told Syler Friday that his wife needs treatment for her mental illness, not prison.

"I hope they drop the charges against her and that she can go to a hospital and stay there long enough to, you know, till the doctors can find the right combinations of medicines to make her, you know, well and safe," he told Syler. "And that she can receive counseling. Obviously, she's in a worse place now than she was, really, at the time of the tragedy, because she has so much trauma behind her, and it's going to take a long time to work through that. I think on the order of, you know, best case, two or three years."

Why does this make you so mad?

I would think the worst punishment you could give a parent is to live with the memory of what you did to your children. If she is sane this should be unbearable. If she's crazy, putting her to death really solves nothing.

I'd like to know more Matt: why does this make you so angry?

I can understand the anger. These were innocent children who were murdered. Even if Ms. Yates believed that they would be taken by Satan, each of them had the right to live and exercise their free will. She was mentally ill, not insane, these states are not the same. She decided her beliefs were greater than her children's right to live and choose.

Anyone aware of any father found not guilty by reason of insanity for killing one or more of his children? Mothers and motherhood are so sacrosanct that we don't want to believe that a mother could kill her children unless she were insane. I worked in Juvenile court as a Guardian ad Litem for nearly ten years. Mothers can, and do, intentionally hurt their children. Ms. Yates should have been found guilty.

"She may have saved the kids from Hell, but she's on Satan's waiting list..."

I have sympathy for and her entire family. She's sick. I wouldn't wish that kind of mental illness on anyone. And I'm not trying to diminish the fact that she killed her kids. That act is pretty much the worst thing anyone can do. But I'm also not going to get on my high horse about it either. She's a sick woman. This family has gone through more than any family could ever imagine. Let them and the justice system deal with it. As for her soul's fate, that is left up to the Almighty.

Matt..You, and all who witnessed the judicial system become a segment on Oprah in this case, are crying out for justice for those five children. She and her lawyer have twisted the system to have her set free. The jury doesn't even realize that she will be periodically reviewed.We all know how that will turn out. This decision is a sympton of no right or wrong that is pervading everything in our culture. And that the lawyer considers this a victory is disgusting.

sad and angry and baffled

I have sympathy for them; I don't have sympathy for people who kill their children.

According to the Bible, people avoid hell by living moral lives and accepting Jesus (I don't believe it, but Christians do), not by being drowned in a bath tub by their wacko mom.

"Ms. Yates should have been found guilty."

Why? We're you in that court room for the entire trial? Sure, women do intentionally harm their children, but that doesn't mean Yates did.

Having a mental illness can be the basis for someone being found not guilty due to insanity in the US legal system.

Talk about late term abortions. Peace

Yea, Matt, hey - its just like a really, really late term abortion times 5. After 6 months in a loony bin, she'll get a work-release and the state will set her up with an in-home babysitting service. She's got the experience, you know.

Or, maybe she's just like Dr. Kevorkian - helping people who just really really want to die. You weren't there - how would you know what the kids told her just before she offed them?

You gotta admit, the sympathetic hubby is a nice touch, though.

Andrea Yates is insane. She needs to be institutionalized, not imprisoned. This was a just verdict.

Nah...dollars to donuts in 10 years she will end up being a pro-life advocate.

Nah...dollars to donuts in 10 years she will end up being a pro-life advocate.

.....and using the nom de plume keefer!

She is also sufferring from Christianism.

She "believed Satan was inside her and was trying to save them from hell."

Compare this tragedy to the Biblical account of Jesus casting demons into pigs (Mark Chapter 5):

Then Jesus asked him, "What is your name?"

"My name is Legion," he replied, "for we are many." And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.

A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. The demons begged Jesus, "Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them." He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.

Any wonder why she would beleive that her own children were demon-possessed?

Do you ever see the many TV preachers who are constantly casting out demons?

With all this claptrap coming from the religious right, you can't blame Andrea Yates for her beliefs.

Wade

Any wonder why she would beleive that her own children were demon-possessed?

Not if she was a liberal. That's the kind of sorry excuse they use to murder the young. Others inlcude, "ain't a people","just a lump","choice", yadda yadda. Heck, even Hitler was just lookin' to purify the race.

"With all this claptrap coming from the religious right..."-Wade

See, I knew only Republicans were Christians. The Left doesn't beleive in Christianity-Wade says so. Since over 80% of Americans are Christians, November is looking like a landslide victory for Republicans!

Must have been one 'o' them "activist" juries, I guess -- you can't see from the facts of the case that the woman was hopelessly insane?
Geesh, get a grip!

Everyone at Imperial Logic is appalled at this verdict. It sets a terrible precedent. I know the Liberals are going to love the verdict, but we hate it.

If a person is so insane that she drowns her own children, shouldn't she be removed from society anyway?

Steve - that was just sick.

Everyone else - Andrea Yates and her husband were fundamentalist Christians. He refused to believe that she was suffering from postpartum depression, and that with each baby it was getting worse. She had a chemical imbalance in her body and brain caused by overloading hormones. He just had a refusal to see that it was a treatable condition, if he would quit getting her pregnant, or allow her to take her meds (ie bottle feed the babies, not breast feed). Given this history, who should be convicted and who needs mental help?

Given this history, who should be convicted and who needs mental help?

Slippery slope. I think you could make a similar case for anyone who goes around murdering multiple people. Charles Manson? Tim McVeigh? These suicide bombers? Obviously none of them have both oars in the water. At least the splodeydopes have enough sense to kill themselves as well.

One place Ms. Yates doesn't belong is out on the streets. Fortunately, this verdict doesn't allow for that. I don't know the details of the case. And even if I did I don't think I have the expertise to offer an opinion one way or the other. Supposedly post-partum depression is a more or less temporary state, and if severe enough it can cause you to be psychotic and delusional -- and apparently if even more severe, murderous as well. Okay fine. But I don't know if anyone knows with any specificity the nature of the mental imbalance that causes post-partum depression in general, and especially the very severe form she appeared to suffer. My guess is (and this is only a guess) that there are other "demons" swirling around in her head besides those caused by post-partum depression alone. So I guess to me the question is... what's the likelihood she won't snap again in some other way?

However things work out for her, I'm not sure I'd want her as a neighbor. And if by some chance she eventually gets released, I think those people that do end up as her neighbors should be informed. It is, after all, the ulimate form of child molestation.

One place Ms. Yates doesn't belong is out on the streets. Fortunately, this verdict doesn't allow for that. I don't know the details of the case. And even if I did I don't think I have the expertise to offer an opinion one way or the other. Supposedly post-partum depression is a more or less temporary state, and if severe enough it can cause you to be psychotic and delusional -- and apparently if even more severe, murderous as well. Okay fine. But I don't know if anyone knows with any specificity the nature of the mental imbalance that causes post-partum depression in general, and especially the very severe form she appeared to suffer. My guess is (and this is only a guess) that there are other "demons" swirling around in her head besides those caused by post-partum depression alone. So I guess to me the question is... what's the likelihood she won't snap again in some other way?

However things work out for her, I'm not sure I'd want her as a neighbor. And if by some chance she eventually gets released, I think those people that do end up as her neighbors should be informed. It is, after all, the ulimate form of child molestation.

Insane? This poor excuse of a Mother, was "sane and smart enough to wait until her oppressive hubby(another nut) left for work, before she got busy, with her own 'handywork'....killing these poor, innocent children. I have no sympathy for her, and like most murderers, what is the damn difference, most are nuts, to got ahead committing
the murders they do anyway. I think this kind of
"insanity loophole-that NO defense sleeze attorney
ever dislikes-should be removed as a defense"

I simply don't think because some slick attorney,
can convince a jury that his client was nuts at the time of any killing, justifies them getting off from serious jail time. In this case, I feel that her looney husband, should have been charged
in this case as well.

Somewhere down the road, when things cool down for
her in the mental ward, she will be petitioning
to get out. Oh yeah, when she is "cured right"?
Funny how they are nuts one minute and okay not too long after. This insanity plea is ludicris.
She belonged in JAIL....period.

Freedom1:

Don't confuse "Christianism" with what Jesus Christ taught.

And never, never confuse the true message of Jesus Christ with what the Religious Right spews out of their vile mouths.

Remember, Jesus was afterall a liberal.

Wade

Gonna part with you on this one, Matt; while I don't know all the facts in this case, I do believe that she was not all there when she did this to her kids.

Why would a psychiatrist say that she was one of his "top five" craziest patients ever? While I don't care much for shrinks, I don't think you can fool them easily.

Post partum depression can be a temporary problem, depending on the depth of the problem and the type of intervention given. It is believed to be caused by the hormone imbalances following the birth of a child. Without treatment, especially with frequent pregnancies, the problem tends to worsen and can easily become a psychosis. My source on this - the mother/baby section of LPN training.

I'm a flaming liberal, but I think they should've done two things, put her in prison, but give mental care for her in prison. She has a mental ilness yes, but she was sane enought to not do that to the kids. She was sane enough to function in the real world.

jo,

Do you think she can really live with herself after what she did? My point is that if she can, she's crazy. If she can't, well that would be a very, very harsh punishment.

This woman is insane, and to go along with insane she definitely is filled with demons, and in my book she committed murder!! and should never be allowed on the streets again, and really should be in prison right now!!
____________________________________________

"Do you ever see the many TV preachers who are constantly casting out demons?"

Wade,

Buddy there is a big difference in false televized preachers, and Jesus!!

Jesus actually DID cast out demons!

And make NO mistake True believers in Jesus can and do cast out demons!!

But the preachers you see on television, only put on an act!, to make themselves look big and try to draw people to them in order to be made to only think that they will be healed, When in reality!, It's a scam to fill the false ministers pocket, with free cash!!

Now, Our pastor where I go to church, he is a good bible believing minister, a kind and caring man, he is the kind of person who can heal because he believes!!, un-like a lot ministers, who only act and do not believe example below......

My pastor went to India last year, and while he was there he was told of a woman who was possessed with demons, he said she was trembling with convulsions, well, they all gathered around the woman, she started screaming for him not to pray for her, because the demons did not want to leave her, But it was amazing!, Every time he mentioned the name of Jesus the girl calmed down!!

At any rate, God is real and I don't care what anyone says WE HAVE THE POWER OVER SATAN as long as we believe in!, and trust in!, the name of the Lord Jesus Christ our salvation and foundation!!

Now obviously the mrs.yates did not believe in Jesus and as a result of doing so, He turned her over to a REPROBATE MIND!, (Note:extremely dangerous for our soul) which is the end result if people who turn away from God and repeatedly reject the calling of the Holy spirit!!

I'm tellin ya people!, God and satan are both REAL!!

And if we choose to reject God we are doomed!!

Folks!, The choice is yours you can choose to follow the devil and be led into hell, or you can ask Jesus into your heart and be a new creature in Him!, and be assured that you will live again when He returns!!

Jeremiah

Hmm... I'm torn on this because one of my former room mates (and a good bud today) suffers from schizophrenia. Before him I never really believed people could be "insane" and "sane" at the same time. Seemingly normal at times and yet at others capable of some of the wierdest things. Having spent time with him and got to know him and others like him I've come to realize that sometimes there really is a mental issue there.

In this case, from what I see there actually should have been two trials. One for the husband and one for the wife. I think hubby should have been charged with Child Endagerment at the least for leaving a woman like her in charge. As for her I think she should be committed, though I'm not so sure about letting her back out ever. She seems like a very disturbed individual who shouldn't be allowed near children ever again.

Gozer: I used to be a teacher at a State Mental Institution and worked with schizophrenics. One woman in particular would illustrate this behaviour. 99.9% of the time she would just be a sweetheart and not cause any trouble. Then when I would least expect it she would grab my hair with both hands and pull with all her strength screaming, "I am not a man, Dennis!" And smack me upside the head. And she was a large woman.

I finally got a crewcut, but I have no clue what demons inside her head set her off like that.

News reports say:

Yates will be committed to a state mental hospital, with periodic hearings before a judge to determine whether she should be released.

Joy! Some judge will sooner or later "determine" that the killer of 5 innocent children should be released. Peachy. And she cannot be tried again.

See Rev, that's the part I don't agree with. I really don't think someone who has proven to be a danger to others should be allowed out if she "seems" alright. As Ash and I can both attest folks with mental imbalances can "seem" fine 99% of the time, but it's that 1% that things can go wrong.

I remember the wierdest question my buddy every asked me was, "If you were to come home and find me with a knife to myself what would you do?" I of course told him after knocking him out I'd call the hospital. He of course was unsure of what I meant so I showed him how quickly I could cross the room and knock him out in one go. He was much happier after that point. Another wierd part of our relationship but with him it was par for the course. :)

Gozer, did your friend stay on his meds? The problem Andrea Yates has had is that her husband encouraged her to go off her meds and have more children, making the problem worse. I personally would not like to see her out until she is well past childbearing, and the likelihood of postpartum happening again. Also, she would need to stay on any meds perscribed for her.

Yates is clearly insane. Mental illness + religion has time after time proven to be a deadly combination. She can now receive the treatment she needs.

How would ANYONE feel, if this was a Father, that
deliberately Killed his 5 children? I can say I think she should be in JAIL, and So Should Her Nutcase Ex-husband. How could HE, let her be with
these kids, knowing she was 'off the beam many times in the past, and YET, he still beds her down
getting her pregnant yet once again. He is as guilty as she is. Trouble is, you will see her somewhere down the road, recuperate enough to want
out of the mental hospital. To me, this is not good enough. For Murder, this Insanity Plea, for
convenience sake (certainly seems so in this case)
should not be considered. If it were a man, he would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Women, have gotten passes on this for years, and
though they are "nuts" , it is murder, and she and
others like her are guilty should spend the rest of their "oops look what I did" lives in jail.

If she was in this state, overwhelmed by having kids, why did that A..Hole of a husband keep getting her pregnant in the first place. I think
she did this horrendous act against these five innocent children to "get back at him, to punish him, for her life being on overload"

You will see her somewhere in a few years wanting
to be released, because NOW, she is well. Well,
those kids don't get any second chances-why does she get to?

Maybe this nut she was married to, will have kids again, and she will be the 'babysitter'?

Of course, she wasn't depressed enough to kill HERSELF. Instead over a fifteen minute period she chased down her older two and drowned them. Then got the other three and drowned them. Then, she called the Police.

In Texas insanity is not knowing right from wrong. She immediately called the Police. Hate to say it, but I wish she'd gone into the back yard and hung herself rather than kill her kids. And, well - I'm suprised (but not that much) that neither her nor her husband have killed themselves since.

Ash:

With all due respect, I don't think murdering 5 children as she did deliberately, and her having to live with the thought of it, is quite punishment enough....considering at least she is "living, and these kids are DEAD"

Sorry, no sympathy here for her-

To me, whether someone is insane at the time, is no excuse to not jail them, or give them a death penalty. Isn't someone who does this insane to some degree anyway....why is that a pass?

It reminds me of that nut on death row in Florida?
who got a pass recently because the "needle" was "curel and unusual punishment, and a doctor was not there to do the deed"....Wonder what the family of his victims feel about that one?

As far as I can tell, and I may be wrong, but most of these posts seem like they are coming from men who, last time I checked have never had the experience of post-partum depression. It's very powerful stuff boys. It's hard to describe and all I can say, as a woman, it takes over you like a hurricane. For some, it could be a catagory five. For me, it was a catagory three. Crying jags, deep, deep depression not wanting to get out of bed, even to take care of your baby who you love but the hormonal abnormalities take over with such force you can't function like a normal new Mom. You have extreme thoughts of being a terrible Mother and nothing you do will change those thoughts from entering you head. We humans only understand about 2% of how our brains work. All I can say is there go I but for the grace of God!

Matthew 7:1, "Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Matthew 7:2, " For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged."

Why do any of you care?

goodbody - wow, libbies don't care about murdered chidren? That must be why some liberal states are holding out against Jessica's Law. Thanks for clearing that up, I was obviously confused.

Don't have kids - do you?

Mark,

There is something strange going on here, with the person JWAL!

I'm thinking it's somebody we know?

trico, just as a hint!

What do you think?

Jeremiah

No Jeremiah. Your paranoia is getting the best of you. You don't know me and I don't know you. Mark opened the discussion about Andrea Yates and I responded with my own personal experience. I am truly sorry if my life experience offends you in any way. I hope you find peace in your heart because it appears you are in need of comfort and understanding.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9).

JWAL,

Just remember this........

The truth will set you free!!

I may not know the truth but God does!!!!!, So...

I'll being praying for you!!

Jeremiah

Jo,

I agree she should never see the blue sky again. I guess if you believe people actually burn eternally in hell, this is one person who should.....

Actually kjstrouble, the meds caused more troubles for my bud then not. He actually got a lot better after getting off of his meds. Though he is now on new meds with MUCH lower doses. Problem was they kept giving him new meds and I believe, over medicating him. Scary thing these mental drugs we've got, half the time the side affects are worse than the original problem!

I believe you Gozer. One of the reasons I never tried to get pregnant (besides being unmarried) was because I had problems with depression as it was. I could just see me getting a hormone overload on top of it.

As for the husband, personally I would like to see him punished for his unwillingness to believe her when she acted out and social services tried to intervene. This man felt he knew what was best, and believe me, given the results, he was dead wrong. I wonder how many times in the past years Andrea Yates has been on suicide watch?

Thank you Jeremiah! I will keep you in my prayers as well. God Bless you!

Mark,

It is getting clearer with every post!!
:)

Jeremiah

kahn,

So quick to prejudge. For the record I am quite conservative. But I digress...

You did not participate in that trial and you have no firsthand knowledge of it. Her sentence was handed down in a legal and just manner yet you and the court of public opinion are ready to tie her to the stake and burn her. This ridiculous sort of lynch mob mentality is perpetuated by mass media and completely devoid of personal reflection. Why would you let someone else make a decision for you about something that has no bearing on you whatsoever?

Furthermore, in taking that position you place yourself on the wrong side of a court ruling, do you have any respect for the judicial system and a trial by your peers? I hope so, because you may be in court some day and that jury may be all that stands between you and something unpleasant.

Finally, the perception of the Republican Party is that of a party of God, more specifically a Christian God (not to say other religions are not welcome or present). In this sort of situation it always puzzles me how quick so called conservatives and Republicans are to condemn this woman to death and spurn her very existence. While so called liberals and Democrats are equally as quick to forgive and offer help and treatment, in the end, what would Jesus do?

One last thing, instead of worrying about trials in far away lands, go down to the local homeless shelter, woman’s clinic, YMCA, etc…and donate some time, you might actually make a difference.