Matt wrote..."...there's nothing conservative about desiring federal funding for something that doesn't need it."

ahhh Matt, there's nothing "conservative" about the budget deficits we continue to suffer.

it's true that nothing prohibits private R&D. yet it's specious to argue against fed funding of stem cell research on fertility clinic embryos which will be destroyed as unwanted private property.

correct me if I'm wrong please, but I'm not aware of pro-lifers picketing fertility clinics.

Matt,
The majority of the public is ill informed on the stem cell topic. Most probably don't even know President Bush is the first president to provide funding for ESC research. Which brings me to a few questions.

What exactly has been achieved from that $90 million dollars?

How much has the ultra liberal Gates Foundation given to ESC research?

How much money worldwide, government and private has been thrown at ESC research?

What has been the results of the current research?

Come on lefties how about some intellectual honesty on this topic.

Bill Gates contributes to California stem cell campaign

Fetal tissue restores lost sight

THese people woudl spend 50 million lobbying to get the government to spend 25 million on publically funding research - why don't they just donate the dange money themselves rather than takign it from someone else's pocket?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2001/07/17/MN153775.DTL

The answer is because Bill Gates gave money? Because of an article that says the practice will likely lead to increased abortions to obtain stem cells? Those are reasons the federal government should fund embryonic stem cell research?

Oh, wait, Willem van Oranje. You're from the Netherlands, right? The place where they just approved a Pedophile Political Party? Where they want sex with animals to be legalized, right? Now I understand your support for this practice. Thanks for your "input."

Establish Justice
Ensure Domestic Tranquility
Provide for the common defense

Where in the heck did funding stem cell research fall when our forefathers were establishing our federal government?

Its time for the Fed to send money off to the states and let the states pay for research. Focus on the judicial system, economic policy,defense, and keeping the peace within our borders (which, includes immigration policy). I don't want my tax dollars paying for stem cell research. Let those who want it so badly donate to a fund set up to do stem cell research. People always want to spend someone elses $$$ on their pet projects but never step up and give themselves (Al Gore, for instance).

mn lib

Reverend Skeezemonga-

Still here? What haven't found friends on (chuckling) your blog?

Rev.

How come you're so obsessed with sex with children and animals?

Rev.

How come you're so obsessed with sex with children and animals?

BTW. You're hate for democracy has already been well established.

Willem-

Not only his hate for democracy but his hate for the people he refers to as "rag heads" is well documented to.

It is amazing that people can't see that stem-cell research is part of the Left Wing agenda. I laugh when I see people like Michael J. Fox speak out in favor of the research. It is again all part of the myopic, self-centered society we are becoming more and more everyday.

Still here? What haven't found friends on (chuckling) your blog?

Still nothing useful to say on topic? That, if I recall, is the definition of a troll.

How come you're so obsessed with sex with children and animals?

I'm not, but obviously your country, and its citizens, are. Explain that.

BTW. You're hate for democracy has already been well established.

What would a Socialist European from a hedonist country know about Democracy?

Not only his hate for democracy but his hate for the people he refers to as "rag heads" is well documented to.

Still nothing? Why am I not surprised, troll? BTW: What's wrong with hating ragheads?

Reverend "my blog is deader than Rush Limbaugh's di#k" Skeezmonga-

Is it too quiet over there on Curiouser & Curiouser?
Can't annoy anyone in your own little padded room?

The point of federal funding for research, any research, is to promote the study of promising fields that have no immediate benefit in the private sector. The prime example of this, of course, is defense R&D spending. The government dumps huge amounts of money into R&D on new weapons systems, none of which have any immediate benefit in the private sector. (These products take many years to develop, and they're not even for sale in the private market.) The purpose of this research is simple: to continue to provide our country's military with the best possible weaponry. The long term benefit is continued security within our country. The secondary benefit is a whole slew of spin-off publicly-available technologies developed from the results of the research. This is very similar to stem-cell research: scientists have an idea of what the long-term benefit of this research will be, and they need all the money they can get in the short term to bridge the gap from idea to product.

To your point that just because public opinion wants it, doesn't mean the government should fund it: What???? This is our money, ours, the US taxpayers! We shouldn't be able to use our money for what we want? Why do you even pretend to be a conservative anymore?

You essentially say that the will of the people should be ignored in favor of the desires of a small but extremely vocal group of religious fundamentalists. (Off-topic: isn't that what you say is going on in Iran?) How much do we have to take from these people? Sex "education" that teaches you can get pregnant from masturbation, and that AIDs can be transmitted through tears? Creationism is just as scientifically valid as evolution? Jeez, enough is enough, already.

Willem,
What does the UK link about fetal tissue have to do with US taxpayer funding of embryonic stem cell research? Did you actually read it?

From your link:

"There is a catch, of course. The sheets of retinal cells used by the team are harvested from aborted fetuses, which some people find objectionable"

Disgusting :>( ------!

From the other link:

"Microsoft Corp. chairman Bill Gates contributed $400,000 to the campaign backing a California ballot measure that would make billions of dollars available for human embryonic stem cell research and cloning projects in the state, according to campaign records.

Gates is the latest billionaire to contribute to a campaign that has amassed more than $12 million in support of Proposition 71, which would have the state borrow $3 billion to fund the controversial research over 10 years."

The ultra liberal Gates foundation doesn't see fit to donate even $1 dollar to FUND ESC research. Why?

Thanks President Bush for doing the right thing.

This is interesting-

Falling behind on stem-cell research
By Christopher Thomas Scott and Jennifer McCormick | April 18, 2006
FIVE YEARS ago, President Bush announced that funding from the National Institutes of Health could not be used to develop stem-cell lines made from newly donated embryos, a decision that has hobbled US researchers. His action spurred conservative members of Congress to introduce legislation that would criminalize both research with human embryonic stem cells and their future therapeutic use. If passed, the measure will send scientists, patients, and physicians to jail for up to 10 years and fine them $1 million. Competing legislation designed to overturn the ban was written a year later. Both measures passed the House and are now before the Senate. Bush has promised to veto any law that would override his policy.
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The consequences of the Bush policy are profound and unambiguous. NIH officials admit the agency has ceded leadership in the field. Scientists no longer undertake hegiras to Washington to learn about important advances in stem- cell biology. Instead, countries where the research is encouraged have stepped into the breach, making new lines at an astonishing rate.
Their discoveries are increasingly showcased at scientific meetings. And now, evidence confirms the nation is falling further behind its competitors. One of the best measures of scientific productivity is publishing peer-reviewed research in scientific journals. When categorizing human embryonic stem-cell research papers according to where the work was done, research has accelerated at a faster pace internationally.
In 2002, roughly one-third of the papers were from US research groups. By 2004, US groups accounted for only one-quarter of the publications. Government policy may be among the factors contributing to the gap between US and international publications in the field.
Why worry about this trend? The answer lies with our biomedical ''discovery machine," which operates on a seven-step assembly line:
1.) An academic scientist designs an experiment to answer an important question.
2.) The scientist applies to the government to fund the research.
3.) The money pays for students and fellows who conduct the research.
4.) The results are published in journals, which advance the field.
5.) An invention may result. This may lead to a patent, which then is licensed to a start-up company.
6.) With a monopoly granted by the patent, the company attracts venture capital. If it is successful, the company grows.
7.) Years later, the discovery becomes a therapy for patients.
It takes $28.8 billion, the annual budget of the NIH, to prime this machine. Every year, the money generates an astonishing amount of fundamental knowledge and thousands of biomedical discoveries. With no initial funding, this apparatus stops at Step 1.
With no money, what do the scientists do? They choose other careers. Worse, they leave to do research in other countries.
When scientists abandon their laboratories, a field can vanish. A scientific discipline is designed to grow exponentially. A professor will train a handful of students, some of whom go on to become professors and train more students. Some PhDs enter industry, where they lead projects and hire more trained workers. Funded properly, this collection of specialists becomes a formidable force, building research centers, driving innovation, and creating business sectors. The government front-loads the process; ingenuity and free enterprise takes care of the rest.
Cutting off funding will stop science. And no scientist dares pin a career on a discipline that could be outlawed at any moment. Other countries such as Singapore, China, and the United Kingdom know this, and are raising money to lure American scientists. The pioneering model we use to benefit our own citizens is being hijacked, one laboratory at a time.
While these signs are troubling, American biomedical research is still strong. Such states as California and New Jersey show resilience, shoring up medicine's most promising frontier. Most embryonic stem-cell biologists hold on mightily, waiting for Congress to vote. A vote that will send them back to their labs, not to jail, where they can get on with the business of keeping us at the furthest edge of medicine, where we belong.

Christopher Thomas Scott is executive director of the Stanford University Program on Stem Cells and Society and author of ''Stem Cell Now: From the experiment that shook the world to the new politics of life." Jennifer McCormick is a postdoctoral fellow at the Stanford University Center for Biomedical Ethics.

The adult stem cell research is still in process. Before jumping on the embyronic stem cell bandwagon, we have to ask ourselves a few things:

- Has the current research actually created cures or treatments which adult stem cell research has not? We keep hearing about all the 'potential cures' and the 'promising results', but nothing has the researchers pointing to a disaese or condition and said 'This is the cure!'

- What has the research using animal embryonic stem cells lead to? Have dog diseases or conditions been cured using this research? If not enough data has been done using animals, why are we progressing to human embryos so quickly? The basic science is supposed to be the same, so what is the rush to destroy human embryos, when we haven't progressed using animals?

- Where does the US Government have the authority to declare one class or segment of the populace inferior to, or of lesser importance than another group? The Constitution has all segments of its citizens equal under the law. Now we are placing the government in the position of saying that this does not apply to lives which are believed by others to be 'inferior' or 'lesser' than themselves. To fund this research would give the Federal government's approval of this reclassification of what is a 'valid' life and what is 'invalid'. To be able to consider one classification of life as the disposable property of another.

"Rev.

How come you're so obsessed with sex with children and animals?

Posted by: Willem van Oranje at July 20, 2006 10:16 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rev.

How come you're so obsessed with sex with children and animals?

Posted by: Willem van Oranje at July 20, 2006 10:17 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW. You're hate for democracy has already been well established.

Posted by: Willem van Oranje at July 20, 2006 10:18 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Willem are you having trouble putting more than one thought together? Or is it that you can't put two coherent sentances together?

I notice that amidst all of the attacks on the good Reverend that none of you lefties have tried to answer the original question related to federal funding of ESC. Is that because you have no good answer?

This is interesting-

Hardly. Does not answer the question asked, looks like so much babbledygook from those who stand to benefit from federal funds to help pay for their Volvos and Jaguars when they're not busy doing nose-dives from college buildings.

In Cobol programming, that stuff has an offal name: FILLER

BTW: can't figure out how to cut-and-paste without including the on-screen menus? What a moron.

In this case, pointless filler.

Rev as well other conservatives,

Great points there, really on topic. And the way you so skillfully addressed the question of the scientific exodus from this country thanks to the policies or this repressed government, why it was just brilliant!!!! (ok enough sarcasm for now)

So, from now on I don't want to here from any of you f#@king retards about how the left doesnt answer questions or present quality arguments. Anytime a legitamate issue or question is raised or answered by us this is what we get.

"Hardly. Does not answer the question asked, looks like so much babbledygook from those who stand to benefit from federal funds to help pay for their Volvos and Jaguars when they're not busy doing nose-dives from college buildings."

WOW. That is real debate. A legit issue in this debate and all i see is a fool spouting out usless stereotypes.

Well the war is on and legitament debate is the last thing you want because your arguments have lost all legitamacy. Possibly your 36% favorablity rating would have made you aware of that by now.

Yes there are mispelled words in my post so have a day on that. God knows thats all you guys have left to critique any longer.

We must protect the sanctity of disease and paralysis! Stem cell research must be stopped!

Establish Justice Ensure Domestic Tranquility Provide for the common defense

Here is the preamble to the constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.(emphasis added)

Though I don't think that that phrase specifically applies to ESC research, I think that it is where the idea came about for the federal government to fund medical research.

Then again, if you guys think that the federal government shouldn't fund medical research, then I guess that the same treatment should be extended to things like cancer research and AIDs research.

But I think that I have a solution:

You guys don't want to pay for it, so don't. Then, you will have no claim to any of the breakthroughs that ESC research may yield. That makes sense to me, you get what you pay for, which, in your case, will be nothing.

"Fetal tissue restores lost sight" Willem the Orange

Willem surely you are not suggesting that this is remotely connected to ESC are you??

"There is a catch, of course. The sheets of retinal cells used by the team are harvested from aborted fetuses, which some people find objectionable."

In otherwords they are harvesting body parts from fetuses. This is exactly what the opponents to ESC research fear and what the supporters want...that the legal status of fetuses be determined to be tissue, so that body parts can be grown and harvested.

What are you some sort of cheese eating ghoul??

Georgia-

"You guys don't want to pay for it, so don't. Then, you will have no claim to any of the breakthroughs that ESC research may yield. That makes sense to me, you get what you pay for, which, in your case, will be nothing."

They are already doing that but don't know it. When any breakthoughs arise from ESC research, and they will arise I assure you, it will be the other country that reap the benefits. You know that country that didn't let the superstituous elements in it's society hold them back. They are the one's who will be made rich and powerful and then you'll see these nay sayers scampering for their cures, and paying tens times the ammount for them as well. Congradulations to you. You've just screwed yourselves.

Georgia-

"You guys don't want to pay for it, so don't. Then, you will have no claim to any of the breakthroughs that ESC research may yield. That makes sense to me, you get what you pay for, which, in your case, will be nothing."

They're already doing that but don't know it. When any breakthoughs arise from ESC research, and they will arise I assure you, it will be the other country that reap the benefits. You know that country that didn't let the superstituous elements in it's society hold them back. They are the one's who will be made rich and powerful and then you'll see these nay sayers scampering for their cures, and paying tens times the ammount for them as well. Congratulations to you. You've just screwed yourselves.

The department spent $435 million with the purchase cards in the 2005 budget year, compared to $296 million in 2004, Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said Tuesday evening. But he said only a fraction of the expenses were improper, noting that the department has disciplined about 70 employees amid 1.1 million purchases.

"Comparatively, we're talking about a small number of bad apples," Knocke said.

Among the expenses that investigators described as abusive or otherwise questionable:

_More than 2,000 sets of dog booties, costing $68,442, that have sat unused in storage since emergency responders decided they were not suited for canines assisting in Gulf Coast recovery efforts.

_Three portable shower units for $71,170 from a contractor who investigators said overcharged the government. Customs and Border Protection agents could have gotten similar showers for nearly a third of the price _ and faster.

_12 Apple iPod Nanos and 42 iPod Shuffles, worth $7,000, for Secret Service "training and data storage." Because the Shuffles cost less than $300, the Secret Service said they were not required to track them to ensure they were used properly.

_37 black Helly Hansen designer rain jackets, costing nearly $2,500, for use in a firing range that the Customs and Border Protection purchaser later acknowledged shuts down when it's raining.

_Conference and hotel rooms at a golf and tennis resort at St. Simons Island in Georgia, worth $2,395, for training 32 newly hired attorneys when they could have used a nearby federal law enforcement training center.

_A beer brewing kit and ingredients for more than $1,000 for a Coast Guard official to brew alcohol while on duty as a social organizer for the U.S. Coast Guard Academy. "The estimated price for a six-pack of USCG beer was $12," the investigators noted, adding: "Given that the six-pack cost of most beers is far less than $12, it is difficult to demonstrate that the Academy is achieving cost savings by brewing its own beer."

Investigators also noted that Customs and Border Protection wasted up to $464,586 by buying meals-ready-to-eat over the Internet instead of contracting through the Pentagon, as is standard procedure. And they found that the Federal Emergency Management Agency cannot locate 107 laptops, 22 printers and two GPS units worth $170,000. FEMA also cannot find 12 of 20 boats the agency bought for $208,000.

I know that it's not necessarily related to the post, but I would rather have my federal tax dollars go to ESC research than that crap.

Nebraska militia:

What does the UK link about fetal tissue have to do with US taxpayer funding of embryonic stem cell research? Did you actually read it?

Did you actually read YOUR OWN QUESTION: What has been the results of the current research?

Embryonic stem cell research will probably hold a cure for Alzheimer as well. You will need it one day.

Reverend, you have so far introduced pedophilia, sex with animals, socialism, hedonism, deomcracy COBOL, Jaguars, Volvo's to the topic. How is that related to this topic.

It's funny you brouhgt up democracy with this issue particularly. You know of course that Bush has vetoed federal funding for ESC. A veto the most anti-democratic measure imaginable. One man trumps the will of "we, the people".

You are assuming that the places that will get these funds will be more accountable?

Sorry, you get 'free money' from Uncle Sugar, and money gets misused. Just look at a recently departed university official did with funds which partly came from taxpayers.

Hermie-

Please link to your recently departed university official.

Here's an idea, libs, get someone elected who will approve your murderous "research." But stop whining.

In otherwords they are harvesting body parts from fetuses. This is exactly what the opponents to ESC research fear and what the supporters want...that the legal status of fetuses be determined to be tissue, so that body parts can be grown and harvested.

Wrong. It's exactly why you should endorse ESC because the embryonic stem cells are obtained from blastocysts (an embryo between 50 and 150 cells, before implantation), not fetuses. A fetus is a later stage.

When you object to fetal tissue, you should endors embryonic tissue. Embryonic stem cells are totipotent and pluripotent. Adult stem cells are only multipotent at best.

It's funny you brouhgt up democracy with this issue particularly. You know of course that Bush has vetoed federal funding for ESC. A veto the most anti-democratic measure imaginable. One man trumps the will of "we, the people".

You ignorant ass. The presidential veto is authorized in the US Constitution and is part and parcel of the democracy of the United States. It is tantamount to the function of the American system. It is not absolute. It can be overridden by a 2/3 majority in either house. It is the prerogative of the President to use that executive power granted him by the Constitution when he deems it necessary. It is the epitome of a well-functioning democracy. It does not trump the will of the people. You are either terribly misinformed, a liar, or some slime bucket hedonist from some foreign country in Europe, or all three.

Rev.-

We elected 63 of them...

Embryonic stem cell researchers= microscopic Dr.Mengele's.

We elected 63 of them...

Wrong. At most you personally voted for two. Who is this "we?" Democrats? Last I looked, there were about 45. There are 55 Republicans who voted on both sides of the issue. But the criteria is 2/3 of the Senators. 63 ain't it.

Who is this "we?"

"We, The People"

I guess you are a strong supporter of the filibuster?

"Christopher Thomas Scott is executive director of the Stanford University Program on Stem Cells and Society and author of ''Stem Cell Now: From the experiment that shook the world to the new politics of life." Jennifer McCormick is a postdoctoral fellow at the Stanford University Center for Biomedical Ethics." Leftorium

Gee do ya think he's entirely unbaised? How do you think he funds his department?

BTW: Before the NIH funds projects they seek to determine if the investment will result in a commercially viable result. Much of the funding depends upon the JOINT work of academia and industry.

Also please cite examples of any leading American scientist going abroad due to lack of funding. On the contrary, the flow of researchers is decidely to the US, not away from it.

You still have yet to answer the question as to WHY federal funds must be used for ESC, since there are other funding sources here in the US.

"Embryonic stem cells are totipotent and pluripotent. Adult stem cells are only multipotent at best." Willem the orange

There are only TWO classifications of stem cells totipotent and pluripotent. Multipotent is a figment of your imagination.

Embryonic stem cells are virtually totipotent, meaning they can become any type of human cell, including at their earliest stage before any differentiation has occurred those cells that make-up the trophoblast (the outer-layer of the blastocyst, which eventually becomes the placenta). Fetal stem cells, placental/cord stem cells, and adult stem cells are all pluripotent, meaning they are not totipotent.

From a scientific perspective, however, the downside of totipotent embryonic stem cells is that they are more difficult to control and manipulate in the lab than pluripotent stem cells. For this reason no scientific studies of ESC have produced any meaningful results, other than failures and tumors.

Some researchers are exploring ways to increase the pluripotency of non-embryonic stem cells. Some studies are beginning to support the theory that adult stem cells are much more pluripotent than originally thought, and are able to turn into many more types of cells and tissues than previously suspected. In addition, fetal stem cells derived from placenta and umbilical cords show much more promise in producing meaningful results and useable therapuetic modalities.

But don't believe me, read:, Martin Körbling, Ruth L. Katz, Abha Khanna, et. al. Hepatocytes and Epithelial Cells of Donor Origin in Recipients of Peripheral-Blood Stem Cells. New England Journal of Medicine 346, 10 (2002): 738-746.]

I guess you are a strong supporter of the filibuster?

More ignorance from the Socialist. The filibuster is a legal and legitimate tool of the Senate. They can outlaw it anytime the choose, but so far have not. It too can be shut down by a simple cloture vote. So are you really that ignorant of democracy of are you intentionally trying to create conflict where there is none? Oh, and one last thing, what difference is it no matter what you think? You're a Socialist Euro - stay on your side of the pond. I promise, I'll stay on mine. I've been over there and it sucked. OH, and enjoy your Dhimmitude.

Rev.-

Actually, we elected (we, being, Americans) more than 63 of them... we also elected more than half of the house that supports it too.

In fact, the mere fact that those 63 people voted for it kind of means that they support it.

The filibuster is a legal and legitimate tool of the Senate.

So, your frothing at the mouth during the threats of the filibuster was just that: frothing at the mouth.

So, your frothing at the mouth during the threats of the filibuster was just that: frothing at the mouth.

What are you talking about? Do you mean that I wanted the filibuster stopped or said I supported the nuclear option? I did say that at one time. And I still believe it. And I would vote for any Senator from my state who supported it.

See that involves this one concept that seems beyond your comprehension, namely Democracy. If enough people believe like I do, we will elect enough Senators who will do away with the filibuster. But until that time, it is a legal tool of the Senate and can be terminated by cloture.

While we're at it, I would like to see the Senate rules changed to disallow non-germane amendments on bills, a traditional way for Senators to try to get things passed that they cannot sell on their own merits. That is not allowed in the House and I believe it should not be allowed in the Senate.

But I am perfectly happy to let the Democracy system work - if enough people want the changes I want, they will happen. If not, I will have to try to convince others to my way of thinking. Again, how Democracy functions.