Nuke Tehran. Nuke Pyong Yang. Occupy Damascus.

Mark,

Sorry buddy, but you're not going to get the public to embrace more war, not when Bush can't finish the two he has on his plate.

If you guys are going to run on a policy of war, then so be it, we can't stop you from commiting political suicide, but with the numbers for the Iraq war in the toilet, and the bottoming out of Bush's job-performance numbers hovering at their natural low, who they hell is going to convince the US what we need is a larger, longer, and more expensive war?

Sounds like the same distortions of reality passed off as fact before our blunder in Iraq.

The "war on terror" is such a farce.

Wade

If any Democrat votes for this abortion, they should be removed from the Party as an active member. Peace

we can't stop you from commiting political suicide...

Hey, what's a little political suicide among friends when you've got an enemy that bent on committing REAL suicide and killing as many of us as possible in the process? Besides, Bush isn't running again, and, in terms of political suicide, declaring war on Iran wouldn't be much different than what Clinton did. And Bush's motives would be a whole lot nobler.

...who they hell is going to convince the US what we need is a larger, longer, and more expensive war?

A better question is, "Who do you, in your deluded fantasy world, THINK he has to convince?"

Let's see, he's got a majority in both houses...

He's not running for re-election...

The Israelis and their fight are very very popular here...

Do you think he has to convince....you? Hahahaha!

Spook,

The problem isn't sending a bunch of missles over there, the issue comes with the innevitable conclusion of a war with Iran, that means boots on the ground, and a WHOLE lot of them.

When you havea majority of the country saying they don't feel iraq was worth-it, then how exactly are you going to present a case that disctates us engaging a much more formidable enemy, on their home-soil, while we have two open fronts eleswhere...The representatives in congress have nothing to fear from a lame-duck president, but everything to fear from elections in '06 and '08.

When you havea majority of the country...

Still trying to sell those worthless polls? Got any buyers - besides yourself, I mean?

From the polls I'm familiar with, I a majority of the people polled feel that going into Iraq was not worth it, however, when asked if we should stay until the mission is complete the people polled said we should complete the mission.

From the polls I'm familiar with, I a majority of the people polled feel that going into Iraq was not worth it, however, when asked if we should stay until the mission is complete the people polled said we should complete the mission.

And 97% answered what the heck is our mission.

And 97% answered what the heck is our mission.

No need to lie, Ashcan't.

Maybe if the Decider-in-Chief just gave the leaders of the various warring factions and states a quick neck massage they would start to relax and see things his way.

Ash,

I suppose the flag burning and gay marriage amendments just aren't getting the traction that Rove expected this go-round, so it look sas though they are upping the antey, if fags and flags don't scare em anymore, maybe mad-mullahs will do the trick. LOL

The US is capable of fighting Iran. But it won't be a big war. The US should support Kurdish, Baloch, Turkmen, and Arab guerilla groups who are currently fighting Iranian security forces. Rallying the students and getting them onto the streets of Tehran. Also call on workers to go on strike like when Milosevic was in power in Serbia. All the military has to do is bomb Iranian military targets and possibly secure the oil-rich province of Khuzestan. Not even 100,000 troops will be needed for the operation.

"they should be removed from the Party"

I wasn't aware that the Democrats wee a command driven party. Tell me Steve - what authority within the Democrat Party pulls your membership? The S.A.?

if fags and flags don't scare em anymore, maybe mad-mullahs will do the trick

Sh*t yes. You are on to something. And a neck massage here or there would help!

Ash

The mission is to remove A.) remove Saddam Huessein from power B.) to establish a stable and democratic Government in its place that will be allied with the US in the GWOT. Removing Saddam Huessein has been accomplished. Currently former regime elements allied with Al Qaeda and local militias a trying to reestablish a variation of the old regime. Due to errors in the execution all of the noble goals may be unachievealbe. If we can get a stable Iraq who is allied with the US this would be a vast improvement over what we had before and it would be acceptable to me.

B,

Would you deal with a democratically elected, pro-Iranian government in Baghdad?

Would you consider backing a coup or military intervention of a state with close ties to Iran, who has a democratically elected government?

to establish a stable and democratic Government in its place that will be allied with the US

Okay. But didn't we try that in Lebanon? Look what's happening there now.

B.P.:

Is it even moral to do that? Where do we stop? Can we really take over countries and make them friendly towards us. I mean I agree this is probably the greatest place to live (with the possible exceptions of New Zealand and Canada) on earth. But that isn't a permission slip for manifest destiny remakes.

It always seems to go back to our reliance on oil. Let's get serious about reducing our dependence on it and see how quickly our need to dominate in the middle east evaporates.

Meanwhile, before we take the INSANE position of expanding the military theatre, here is what a GOP representative had to say about the beautiful (ahem) Iraqi 'democracy':

— Congressman Gil Gutknecht found the situation in Iraq more bleak than he anticipated during a weekend visit to the war zone, and said a partial withdrawal of some American troops might be wise.
Gutknecht, a strong supporter of the war since it began in March of 2003, told reporters in a telephone conference call Tuesday that American forces appear to have no operational control of much of Baghdad.
“The condition there is worse than I expected,” he said. “... I have to be perfectly candid: Baghdad is a serious problem.”

While Gutknecht is still not in favor of setting deadlines for the withdrawal of all American troops, he said the situation in Iraq’s largest city has clearly deteriorated. “Baghdad is worse today than it was three years ago,” he said.

Gutknecht was in Iraq from Saturday morning until late Sunday afternoon. His time in the country’s capital city was spent almost exclusively within the Green Zone, an area of central Baghdad that is heavily fortified and where all access is controlled by check-points. “We learned it’s not safe to go anywhere outside of the Green Zone any part of the day,” he said.

Gutknecht’s sobering report contrasts with many of his fellow conservative supporters of the war. The Republican National Committee sends out weekly e-mails to the media called “Iraq Facts” that paint a picture of steady progress toward stability and Iraqi self-governance. And conservative commentators have consistently said that the American people are being provided an overly dire picture of the Iraq war by the mainstream media.

So I am going to ask this once and for all to all of you warmongers out there:
What the F*CK KIND OF CRACK ARE YOU SMOKING?

Blov,

Thanks for the cite there, have you read the official cable released a few months ago describing how life is for the iraqis who work in the green-zone, and how they describe their life outside of it? It's pretty eye-opening on just how scared the normal Baghdad resident is, and just how bad they are slipping into strict islamic control.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/graphics/iraqdocs_061606.pdf

It is very clear that Bush’s lack of a Mid East policy, the lack of attention towards Iran and the invasion of Iraq is all part of Bush’s master plan to usher in the apocalypse. That is why the religious right has stood so firm behind the Cowboy and Chief.

Remember, Bush said that a “Higher Father” was directing his hand in the Middle East, and he has said that God has a special purpose for him.

You nuts elected a mad man that is bent on nuclear war in the holy land.

Some Dude,

Are you kidding, or have you just repeated the game-plan we had for Iraq in 2003?

We couldn't handle Iraq with 150,000 troops, what makes you think we can overtake Iran with 100,000?

The Kurds have no urge to mess with Iran, they have their hands full making plans for autonomy at the first opportunity, and making sure the Turks don't bomb them again.

The last time the students rose up in Tehran, we ended up with the Mullahs, what makes you think it will end better this time?

Last time we backed Arab guerilla groups, we ended up with the Taliban, and OBL.

I think you need to go back to the drawing board with this one, buck-o

I suspect we may only need to be a supporting player when Tehran does something foolish about the Isrealis clearing out Hezzbollah from Lebanon

TEO,

So, you're saying that American policy should be governed by poll results? If Gallup says we don't do a thing, then we don't do it?

I really do pray that it doesn't come to this, but I believe there is no way out consistent with honor, justice and mercy other than a full scale war.

I think that, in the end, the American people would back a forthright policy - the only real trouble I see is the fact that GW is term-limited: he might feel that he shouldn't begin something that large when it will necessarily be his succesor who will have to deal with most of it.

Come what may, eventually we will have to declare war on Iran, unless a revolution breaks out there and overthrows the mullahs...

We couldn't handle Iraq...

Bull. Your wishing doesn't make it so. Stop lying.

The Kurds have no urge to mess with Iran

Bull. More imaginary crap. OK, please stop lying?

The last time the students rose up in Tehran, we ended up with the Mullahs

Yea, thanks to Jimmah Carter, Nobel winner. Pffft. Se shudda stayed in Geogia in his peanut farm.

Last time we backed Arab guerilla groups, we ended up with the Taliban, and OBL.

And a defeated Soviet Union. Things change. I thought you were all for change as jackasses. Guess not.

I think you need to go back to the drawing board with this one, buck-o

And I think you need to go back to DU and get some fresh talking points. These are getting pretty old.

mark,

i'm going to go one step further and paint myself as the most lunatic of the moonbats by stating my proposed iran policy:

bush gets on air force one and flies to tehran. iran finally - like the kid with ADD screaming and breaking things in the house bc he wants attention - gets to be taken seriously by the most powerful state in the world. while the iranian leadership struggles to regain footing, the iranian populace, apoplectic at having been graced by the US head of state (whom already embrace much of western culture and favor reinstating diplomatic relations with the US) suddenly have hope again, hope that they can reemerge into the world as a nation that can expand ties to the west as opposed to furthering severing ties and regressing under islamic rule... what do you think the youth seek out?

if bush was man enough to fly to tehran, the first official visit since prior to 1979, he would instantly be elevating himself to a status on par with the reagan-gorbachev summit in geneva in 1985.

bush gets on air force one and flies to tehran.

This must be comedy night at Blogs For Bush. This is a good example why only grown-ups should do foreign policy. Tell me, do you moonbats sit around thinking up the dumbest thing you can say? Is it a contest? Do you lose if it isn't dumb enough? Whew! That one must have been a winner!

Mark,

I don't know if you just enjoy watching people die from your living room, or you're one of these 'waitin' on rapture' 'tards, but war is not in the cards.

Do we govern by polls? No. But we are governed by the power, vested in our elected representatives by those people. How exactly do you suppose the Republicrats, after a disasterous time with Afghanistan and Iraq, are going to come to the American public, and tell them that despite our failures, we need to engage in a larger, longer, and more expensive campaign against more ME countries? Do you think the UK is going to have the stomach for that? What about the rest of the EU which is currently running from Iraq like it was radioactive? Is your plan to ride straight towards them, six-shooters a-blazin' while reciting John Wayne quotes? Or are you advocating just nuking the place?

Maybe if we tried something novel, and ya know, talked to them, we might get atleast a better insight into what is going on in their leaders' heads. As it stands now we are playing 'telephone' with other nations, and Bush's policy is to have more of the same. I appreciate you don't deal with bad-guys, but that never stopped us from dealing with Saddam or Musharaf.

Barring an internal Iranian revolution, war with Iran is inevitable. Iran cannot be allowed to possess nuclear weapons. Period.

Hey, Brown Eye...Grow up.

"...the only real trouble I see is the fact that GW is term-limited: he might feel that he shouldn't begin something that large when it will necessarily be his succesor who will have to deal with most of it."-MN

Perhaps Condolezza Rice should run for president in 2008. Problem solved. Go Condi!
:)

Freedom,

Thats is the great thing about free-will, and cognitive thinking abilities, nothing is innevitable.

Reverend Scaramonga's right, TEO. Grow up.

via LGF-Pix-Terror Supporters Turn Out in US

In New York-Pix: "Islam Will Dominate" with a picture of the White House flying the black flag of Islam.

In New York-Pix: "Allah Will Destroy the Terrorist State of Israel"- with a star of David with a swastika inside.

Pix: Dearborn, Michigan, several thousand supporters turned out protesting Israel.

Fox News has been reporting that Hezbollah in Iran says it has people in the USA who are trained and ready to attack US interests. I wonder if some of the above people are Hezbollah terrorists?

Freedom,

LOL, I'll try

500,000 refugees,thats half a million folks, 300+ dead 1000+ wounded. This has turned punative not just disproportionate. How many children are dead? Yet, bush allows the carnage to continue. Peace

Response deleted due to commentor making absurd claims about censorship on this blog.

Trust us, if we edit or delete your comments, you'll know it.

TEO,

First off, it is just your leftwing absurdity which makes you buy in to the notion that Iraq and Afghanistan are failures. For the people who have actually looked at the situation, we've done quite well and things are going better than we had a right to expect.

Outside of that, and even supposing you were right about both places, just what would talking to Hizbollah accomplish?

Seriously, I want you to think about that - no more just saying "Bush should do it"...tell us, precisely, what you would bring to the table as an offer for Hizbollah, and then explain to us why you think that Hizbollah would find the offer acceptable.

You're living in a rather silly anti-Bush fantasy world - I'm living in the real world, and I don't give a tupenny damn what the polls say. One does the right thing, no matter what.

Right now, my belief is that war with Iran may become a sad necessity. If such does become the case, then were I president I would ask for a declaration of war even if the latest Gallup poll showed 99% of the people opposed to it.

No one can control all the tides of the world - but we must do what we can, when we can, to the best of our ability. I refuse to be coward, I refuse to despair, I refuse to live in a world of darkness.

Not sure if we're at this point yet, and I hope we don't have to.

First off, it is just your leftwing absurdity which makes you buy in to the notion that Iraq and Afghanistan are failures. For the people who have actually looked at the situation, we've done quite well and things are going better than we had a right to expect.

"The condition there [in Iraq] is worse than I expected...I have to be perfectly candid: Baghdad is a serious problem. Baghdad is worse today than it was three years ago...it’s not safe to go anywhere outside of the Green Zone any part of the day."

That bit of *ahem* "leftwing absurdity" comes courtesy of Republican Rep. Gil Gutknecht of Minnesota. He's a war supporter who said this after having actually gone to Iraq himself--you know, actually seeing it firsthand. Looking at the situation, in other words. What you suggest turns people from nonbelievers into believers has the exact opposite effect.

Also:

Gutknecht was critical of some of the “spin” from Bush administration officials in the Pentagon and the State Department. He specifically pointed to past statements that a few hundred insurgents were causing the violence in the Iraq. Military officials say they’ve captured 10,000 even as the insurgency continues unabated.

“That’s a far cry from what we were told originally,” he said. “... All of the information we receive sometimes from the Pentagon and the State Department isn’t always true.” (emphasis mine)

So, having seen it firsthand, what does he think we ought to do?

What I think we need to do more is withdraw more Americans,” he said.

This is a Republican war supporter, Noonan. One who actually went to Iraq. Still want to blame everything on the media? Still want to claim it's a "leftwing absurdity" that things aren't so great in Iraq? Well, naturally you do because you're a dishonest hack who never lets the facts get in the way of a good blamin' rant.

Mark,

I am not going to argue with you about the current trajectory and velocity of Iraq, if you wish to believe things are better than they should be, then so be it, I can't change your willingness to be blind to facts.

I will on the other hand engage you about Hezbollah, because I think we may have more in common than it may seem.

I believe ISrael has the right to defend herself, and vigorously at that. None of this pussy-foot BS where they wait around for a member of Hezbollah to drive down the street, and then take him out with a gunship rocket; I expect Israel to get their damn boots on the ground and weed out the militants, and I mean hard evidence, picture in hand, what this guy had for breakfast yesterday kind of intelligence, I don't want them doing what we do in Iraq, just breaking down doors on a whim, and throwing a sack over every male's head in the house to be picked through, and interrogated later, I mean actionable intelligence on leaders of the group.

From our side, we need to stop this BS where we pick and choose the 'bad-guys' we will, and won't talk to, or at, whichever. We need to be talking to EVERYBODY, from the lowliest tin-pot dictator, to the French, to every damn person we can get to listen to us, infact I want us to find people we have never even thought about talking to, and engage them. At this point in history we can't afford to be aloof, we need to get to the brass tacks of the issue with Hezbollah (despite what you may think, there are secular wants which we can take advantage of here) The moment we can turn them into just another Lebanese political party, is the moment that they lose all credibility as "freedom-fighters" in the ME, and that is when they become useless to Iran and Saudia Arabia.

I am not a negotiator, I don't know the minutia of the situation, but one thing that has been clear from day one, is there is going to have to be a prisoner swap, the Israelis have done it before, it's unfortunately the reality of being surrounded by people who don't like you, sometimes the rules suck, but when you start making up your own rules, is the moment you lose the game, and make no mistake, everyone is playing right now.

I find it a bit ironic that a man who says that we need to stand tall in the face of opposition to our morals wants to bomb Iran, but we can let slide China, who we know has nukes, play footsie with Saudi Arabia until we don't have to anymore, and be completely quiet about the tyranny in places like Azerbaijan; I don't mean to be indignant, but the US needs some serious reassesment of its morals (political) in the first place. Take a hint that the American public does what it has to, but when you ask them to fight a war with no clear goals or finish-lines, they are not going to give you, or anyone else a blank-check (not after Iraq) to engage us in more violence. That isn't being weak or capitulating, it's being smart, and realizing that discretion is always the better part of valor, to play "Crusader" to Iran's "Caliphate" would give them all the social cover they need to bring together a neo-Persian empire, and would wreck whatever good things we have done in Iraq and Afghanistan, and more than likely set back the likes of Jordan, Egypt, and Pakistan to a point where Islamism would have fertile ground to usurp power.

I agree, we can't be everything to everyone, but we can pick and choose our battles, Iran is not one of the battles we fight with our military, this is a battle that is fought with strong pressure from our international allies, and if they refuse to get in line, then we use the weight of international law against them, China and Russia can only hold out so long before they are forced into the spotlight of international attention, which is not where either of them want their dirty laundry aired, especially when economic weapons can wreck both fragile economies.

No one is making value judgements on the US, yet. As had been said by a much smarter person than I, "In every dire situation, there is an opportunity", fighting the wrong war, at the wrong time, is not that opportunity.

Depends on who is dying TEO. I enjoy watching the right kind of people die from my living room, specifically murderers, rapists, terrorists, etc.

Yeah, I really have no problem with that at all.

Sees,

He went to the Green Zone for less than 24 hours...I'll take the word of the troops who are actually over there, outside the Green Zone.

TEO

I would not neccessarily be opposed to trying to use the weight of international law against Russia and China or trying to use whatever economic weapon that might be able to be used against their economies. Before doing this, though you better know who you are playing with. These are very violent and very dangerous people.

If you shine a spot light on them, their allies in the UN will likely run interference for them and you are going to make them VERY angry. China has vast military man power at its disposal and according to General Colin Powell Russia has the nuclear fire power to destroy the US in about an hour.

There probably is some economic weapon we could use against them. I'm not sure what it is but I'll take your word for it. Russia supplies a significant portion of the oil to Europe. If you pressure them, they may cut off the oil supply to Europe. This supply will not be easy for Europe to replace. If you pressure China, they may decide to unload their US debt that they hold and they may cancel American business contracts. Replacing that manufacturing capacity will not be easy. That combined with unloading their US debt would be DEVESTATING to the US economy. This is just what they can do to us. I'm assuming we can do the same things to them. This would a NASTY situation all the way around. In America and in the West, the leaders have to answer to the people and the people are addicted to their lavish lifestyles. In the communists countries of Russia and China, they jail or execute those who oppose them. In other words the Russians and the Chicoms, will not worry as much about wrecking the lives of their citizens if it brings down the USA as the USA or the Western world would about wrecking the lives of its citizens. In a battle like this, the Chinese and the Russians hold better cards.

Also, a KGB defector has described the Russian leaders as "crazy persons." These are the same people who had power during the days of the USSR. I have tried to study some of these people. The defector could be embelishing or he could be lying but the assesment seems to be close to reality. I would describe them as "crazy like foxes." If you apply pressure with your "economic weapon" the wrong way or at the wrong time you may find a VERY LARGE nuclear arsenal headed your way. Again, I'm not saying don't apply an economic weapon. When you do, you better know who you are messing with.

I have called for diplomacy with Russia and China to try and get them to stop supporting Islamic Extremists for some time, however, I did not have in mind "economic weapons." What I had in mind was trying to offer them something of value rather than taking any punitive action against them.

TEO,

No good - I asked you for what you would offer them, and you flunked. Please don't tell me at this point that you've never gone to an Islamist website and seen what these people are after...

They are evil, TEO - evil as the Japanese Imperialists and German Nazis were evil. They are people warped by lies, who simply do not see the world as you and I do. You and I would never, EVER think of strapping a bomb on an autistic kid and sending him off to blow himself up at a bus stop...these people not only think of such things, but they are damn proud of themselves when they do.

They want you dead, TEO, or they want you submitting to their overlordship. You tell me, given that as their opening negotiating position, what we could possibly give them that would satisfy them...or what threats we could make that would impress them.

As a "carrot" that I might offer Russia would be to withdraw support from former Soviet Republics and in exchange for this they will withdraw all support from Iran, Syria, and other Islamic Extremists regimes. It might be unsavory but it is better than war.

I would also withdraw military forces from most places in the world. This should serve to lessen resentment of us in places where the citizens chafe at our presence. This would be followed by a massive military build up in the US to serve as a deterent against aggression, as I'm not overly optimistic our Communist neighbors to the South will suddenly play nice, however, if we develop more of our own oil resources this will lessen the leverage they have against us.

Mark,

To compare the reaction needed to subdue Nazi Germany and Japan, with the force required to subdue what amounts to THOUSANDS(and growing, thanks to us) of terrorists, is simple wishful thinking. Who are you going to drop Big Boy and Little Boy on? Where is your battle of the Bulge going to be? Where is Normandy now?

You can't fight these people as you could fight a NATION, there are no borders here, there are no supply lines, no headquarters, no fleet to sink, or infantry to flank. You cannot start a war with a country of millions, who have the capability to engage the US in a fierce ground battle. What happens when nationalism kicks in, and the insurgents start streaming in to Tehran to make Baghdad look like a walk in the park? How are you going to deal with not knowing where we should be bombing, or what, if anything we have destroyed? Who are you going to get that will support this anymore than we have support now for Iraq, Macedonia and the Solomon Islands ain't gonna cut this one, buck-o. How are you going to deal with Russian and Chinese backing, who don't have to engage us militarily, but simply isolate us economically to help hamstring the effort? Snap yourself out of this fantasy of riding into Tehran to the cheers and flower-throwing of grateful students, that BS isn't going to happen, just like it didn't happen in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Yes, sending the autistic to kill, we, as a modern, moral country would never stoop to things such as that, damn-dirty evildoers. Perhaps you have forgotten about our own recruiting of the autistic...and the neo-Nazis too, can't forget about them. LOL

We aren't going to fight anymore of your wars Mark, tell your people to find another way to asuage their lust for revenge, because the rest of us have had it up to here with the arm-chair generals who are using patriotism and fear to run interference for their sad little attempts to create a little sanity in their lives by subjecting innocent people to more horrors than they already live with, your God(s) are not proud of you Mark.

You can't fight these people as you could fight a NATION, there are no borders here, there are no supply lines, no headquarters, no fleet to sink, or infantry to flank

You're right, Brown Eye. Its hopeless. Get yer white flag and head east. Learn how to say, "Allah Akbar" and how to wipe your butt with your finger (left hand only). It is truly hopeless. Surrender now and avoid the rush.