The present action in Israel brings back memories of another day and another war:
In 1973 the Arab world started the Yom Kippur war against the Israelis, and of course the American Government stepped up to support their allies with equipment and war supplies. I was assigned to Charleston AFB in South Carolina as a Flight Engineer on C-141's during this period and was on one of the first aircraft to takeoff toward Israel with supplies.
Our first stop was Warner Robins AFB in Macon Georgia, a large Supply Base for the Air Force. We had a crew of two Pilots, one Navigator, two Flight Engineers and one Loadmaster. We landed at Warner Robins where ground crews proceeded to load sixty-five thousand pounds of high explosive shells and ammunition for the tanks of the Israeli Military.
We were loaded and ready to go just about midnight and took off headed east toward Lajes AFB in the Azores. The Flight Plan was to crew rest at Lajes, then takeoff and fly through the Straits of Gibraltar. It had to be an over water flight all the way to Lod Air Port in Tel Aviv because the Arabs were angry with the United States for helping Israel in their war effort and threatened to cut off oil to any country in Europe who gave assistance to the United States in their support of Israel.
This put a lot of pressure on the Navigator who had to navigate us over International waters all the way to Israel from the Azores. We were under orders that if we had an in-flight emergency that caused us to have to make an emergency landing that we were to ditch the plane in the ocean as no country along the route of flight would give us permission to land. They did not want to have their oil supply cut off by the Arabs for aiding the Israelis.
Our Pilot was one of the funniest Pilots it was my pleasure to know. I spent many trips with him flying all over the world and had so much fun with this guy that I knew we were in for some adventures with him as Pilot in command. My other Flight Engineer was a good old Georgia Boy, Jack Anderson, who was to lose his life some years later by being shot down over Africa while flying missions for the UN in a C-130.
We took off early the next morning after a night at the NCO Club and split the Straits of Gibraltar right down the middle. We were cruising at 35,000 feet and passed by the Southern tip of Spain, south of Italy and south of Greece heading east to Israel. Normally at 35,000 feet we would start our descent 100 miles out from the airport we planned to land.
Sometime in the recent past, Israeli soldiers had blown up a Russian airplane at an Amman, Jordan airport. This really ticked off a terrorist group called the "Black September Group" They vowed to blow up or shoot down an American plane in retaliation for this act by the Israelis.
Because of this threat, the Israeli Defense Force would send out fighter aircraft to escort our cargo planes once we entered Israeli air space. This just happened to coincide with the 100 miles distance from the Airport we were heading for.
We were tooling along around 600 knots ground speed just southeast of Greece when the Israeli F-4 fighters joined up with us off our wing tips.
We got so involved with taking pictures of these fighters and watching them flip upside down next to us to give us better pictures of them that we passed our descent point.
Instead of the normal 100 miles to descend, we were down to thirty miles from the airport and had to get down fast. All aircraft, by flight rules have to fly no faster than 250 knots at ten thousand feet and lower so that they can be controlled by ground controllers.
We could not legally go out of Israeli airspace to slow down as their country is so small that we would have crossed into Arab airspace and that was an invitation to shoot us down and we sure didn't relish that idea!
Barry cracked the Flight Spoilers, pulled the throttles back to idle, and pushed the nose over in a penetration approach. We came screaming down with the Mediterranean Sea filling the windscreen! 30,000 feet, 25,000 feet, 20,000 feet, 15,000 feet, the altimeter was unwinding as if we were in an elevator!
Ten miles to go and we were just passing through 10,000 feet. We were supposed to be at 250 knots, but was still scorching the sky at 550 knots!
We were teasing Barry that he was gonna get busted for breaking all kinds of flight rules and he was gonna get a speeding ticket to boot! We were laughing, but he was sweating up a storm trying to get 200,000 pounds of aircraft safely down with 65,000 pounds of high explosives right behind our butts.
He got us down to our approach altitude but we were still screaming through the air at 400 knots as we crossed the shoreline into Israel. We slowed down to 300 knots as we passed over the Airport and had to make 4 circles before we got the airplane slowed enough for our approach.
I told Barry that if we had hit any one of the hundreds of airplanes flying around there he would have won the war for the Arabs when 65,000 pounds of explosives blew Tel Aviv and Lod off the face of the earth. He asked me if I thought the Arabs would give his family free gasoline for the rest of their lives if he had won the war for the Arabs.
We eventually got the aircraft on the ground and parked safely. When we opened the door we had a welcoming committee of Golda Mier, and Moshe Dayan, the Premier, and Minister of the Israeli Defense Force. They gave each one of us a Key Ring as a welcoming gift. I still have mine, it is a little faded, but a reminder of how we almost won the Yom Kippur war for the Arabs.
See "Operation Nickel Grass"
This is about getting rid of Islamic fascism,
and there are many mad men in the different countries over there like hezbollah, Iran, and Syria!!
Just telling them that we are going to stand tuff is not going to solve or stop anything!!
We have to get tough, and put a stop to it in short order!!
The bible tells us!! to overcome evil with good, but also not to be overcome by evil!!
And leave room for Gods wrath, and he will take care of the conflict, for He is our Mediator!!
Trust in the lord with all thy might, all thy strength, all thy body, and with all they soul!!
Right now though, it may not pertain to what that discussion is about but it is of good character!!
MEMORIZE THIS ONE ITS EASY!!
psalm 118:24
"This is the day that the lord hath made, let us rejoice and be glad in it!!"
Jeremiah
This is about getting rid of Islamic fascism,
and there are many mad men in the different countries over there like hezbollah, Iran, and Syria!!
Just telling them that we are going to stand tuff is not going to solve or stop anything!!
We have to get tough, and put a stop to it in short order!!
The bible tells us!! to overcome evil with good, but also not to be overcome by evil!!
And leave room for Gods wrath, and he will take care of the conflict, for He is our Mediator!!
Trust in the lord with all thy might, all thy strength, all thy body, and with all thy soul!!
Right now though, it may not pertain to what that discussion is about but it is of good character!!
MEMORIZE THIS ONE ITS EASY!!
psalm 118:24
"This is the day that the lord hath made, let us rejoice and be glad in it!!"
Jeremiah
"Better to say that what's under attack is liberal democratic civilization, whose leading representative right now happens to be the United States."-Bill Kristol
Good article. I'm glad this is being said by a mainstream political writer. Perhaps the world will finally understand that this really is a global war against radical Islam/Islam.
"It is our war, though, and the sooner we engage in this new theater of operations, the better.-Mark Noonan
Exactly. What's happening in Israel and Lebanon and Hamasistan is just one of the many fronts of the GWOT. Syria and Iran need to be confronted soon.
You are so spot on, Freedom23...I mean, Freedom1. Almost too good to be true...
huh?
Freedom1, "huh?"
similarities huh?
Jeremiah
Another prediction of the "anti-war" crowd was that invading Iraq would destabalize the region and inflame fringe factions into open warfare.
It is with regret that I have to concede we liberals were, again, corrrect.
Wade
Freedom1,
Do you think keefer still believes we are spoofers?
Jeremiah
uggh. You people are so easily manipulated. Contrary to the current neo-con vogue, Iran is not behind all the ills in the MidEast. Hamas and Hizbollah are not creations of Iran, although Iran has supported them. Both of these organizations are outgrowths of the ongoing injustice suffered by the people of Palestine at the hands of Israeli occupiers. You too would take up whatever weapons you had against the Israelis if you were forced out of your ancestral lands and herded into the enormous holding camps that are the west bank and Gaza - and you wouldn't need inspiration from Iran to do it.
The neo-conmen are just itching to rumble with Iran and Syria. If they don't get Iran to do something to justify an attack, they will surely manufacture some pretext. The disproportionate Israeli retaliations in Lebanon and Gaza are clearly meant to provoke a wider conflict. Next we'll be hearing from Kristol et al how we have "no choice" but to attack Iran. How convenient.
Wade,
Ummmm...among the many reasons we went in to Iraq was to destablise the region..."stability" brought us 9/11...
Jeremiah,
Yeah. S/he's playing games. When this all started, I clicked keefer's typekey box. Over the last two days I've seen 3 different keefer aliases pop up (they all have purple typekey boxes). S/he's not even trying to disguise himself/herself. Maybe, keefer's bored?
Aarontime,
You really need to brush up - Hizbollah was specifically created by the Iranian Republican Guard at the express orders of the Iranian government...it is a creature of Iran, and always has been.
"Another prediction of the "anti-war" crowd was that invading Iraq would destabalize the region and inflame fringe factions into open warfare."-Wade
Good. I prefer a stand up fight to a bughunt.
Mark -
Hizbollah is only able to thrive because of the tensions caused by an apartheid regime in Israel. Yes, as a Shi'a organization it has always had close ties with Iran. But to say that the Republican Guard created it? Not so sure. In any case, Israeli brutality has been much more of a boon to Hizbollah (and Hamas) than Iran ever could be.
It is worth noting that Hizbollah is widely blamed for the horrifying 1983 bombing of the US Marine barracks in Beirut in which 230 of our soldiers died. So if you are right that Hizbollah exists only because of Iran and was wholly created by Iran, isn't it all the more outrageous that Reagan secretly sold weapons to Iran in the years right after the 1983 bombing (to fund contra terroroists)? Where is Rush Limbaugh screeching "He sent weapons to the terrorists who killed our own troops!!". You wingnuts accuse Dems of supporting terrorists at the drop of a hat - but why isn't Bill O'Reilly up on his high horse demanding that Reagan be labeled a traitor and terrorist accomplice?
Uh, because he isn't? I hope that helps.
THe only reason there is any "Apartheid" is because the Palestinians won't stop blowing people up long enough to be trusted in decent company. .
]
What I am hoping for in the wake of all these European leaders with their heads in the sand is that the Israeli army will crush these bastards and at the same time will give these European jerks the finger.
I'd buy that poster and hang it in my rec room.
Ah, PNAC founding member Bill Kristol is now a "mainstream political writer." I guess that goes a long way toward explaining why so many B4B types haven't a clue (nor want one).
But hey, we all know he's just part of the liberal "MSM."
Why do we need another war? Palestine, Lebanon, and soon Syria and Iran. Isreal is just another middle east country that has chosen the people who put Sharon and his third party out of business. It's fanatics the same as Hezbollah or Mossad.
Bush should tell Isreal to stop immediately and go it all on their own.
Aarontime,
You really need to brush up - Hizbollah was specifically created by the Iranian Republican Guard at the express orders of the Iranian government...it is a creature of Iran, and always has been.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at July 15, 2006 02:26 AM
Mark, sounds to me that aaron is a deep under cover CIA agent(be careful, you might "out" him)lol. He knows so much!!! Or maybe he's just another liberal crazed college student living off the grant that I paid for! Either way, he sounds like my 7yr. old know-it-all daughter!
Aarontime,
Yeah, thats it - Democratic Israel which allows Arabs to vote and sit in Parlaiment is responsible for Hizbollah...can't possibly be the corrupt and tyrannical regimes which sponsor the group...no chance of that at all..
Soeap, That's a hard pill to swallow with out some substantial backing. Would you care to show us the evidence that the Israeli government is just another hezbollah or Mossad! We already have the evidence on them!
Aaron,
Oh, and about Iran/Contra...the purpose of the arms sales was to secure the release of American hostages which were being tortured by Iran's cat's paws in Lebanon.
Wrong policy? To be sure - but what got Reagan behind it was the receipt of a tape recording of an American screaming as he was being tortured. You on the left just don't give a darn about that, however...a handy club to beat a Republican is all you want or care about...no humanity, no sympathy, no understanding...
Wade
The problem was not in the choice to invade Iraq. Iraq was a large supporter of international terrorism. He had a strong desire to acquire WMD and he was actively belligerent to the USA. As such, he became a legitimate target. The problem has been in the execution. Most importantly we did not use enough troops.
We needed to send enough troops to overthrow the regime, secure the oil piplelines, secure the weapons caches, pacify the country, secure its borders, secure its coastline, and secure its oil terminals in Gulf. This probably would have required at least 500,000 troops. Keep in mind this is only enough to secure Iraq. This is not enough to project a credible threat to Iran or Syria.
Predating 911 I realized that Islamic Extremism is a predatory philosphy that books no dissent. Western Civilization and Islamic Exremism cannot peacefully coexist. If Western Civilization is to survive long term we will need to subdue them. We have no choice. Now that the Islamic Extremists have allied themselves with the Marxists of Russia and China they are even more dangerous.
In order to do this right and drive a stake through the heart of this enemy will require a WWII type mobilization. Also, we need to understand that the enemy behind our enemies of Iran, Syria, and the terrorists groups are Russia and China. The key to this will be getting Russia and China to stop enabling these regimes.
Mark
You write: "Come home Mr. President and start planning the liberation of Syria and the destruction of Iran's nuclear program." This sounds like a great idea. I really don't want to be a pessimist but we don't know where all of Iran's nuclear sites are. Also, whose military do you plan to use to liberate Syria? The one we have in Iraq is busy right now.
As I pointed out to Wade, we should have had a WWII style mobilization immediately after 911. We may still be able to do that but obviously such a mobilization would take time and the American people will need to understand the threat. The best we can do for Israel right now is to offer them diplomatic cover. Also, if they need it and we are able to do it an aiflift of weapons and supplies to Israel would be a great idea. This could be similar to Operation Nickel Grass that was used to supply Israel during the Yom Kippur War.
If the American Government is smart enough to stay out of Israel's way, they may solve the terrorist problem for us. I hope and pray they are.
Freedom1
You wrtie: "I prefer a standup fight to a bughunt." I agree. The frontline in the GWOT appears to have shifted from Iraq to Israel. It's time to support our ally. From your posts, I can tell that you do.
"You wrtie: "I prefer a standup fight to a bughunt." I agree. The frontline in the GWOT appears to have shifted from Iraq to Israel. It's time to support our ally. From your posts, I can tell that you do." Posted by: B.Poster
Absolutely. Go Israel! The USA should provide whatever assist Israel requires.
As regards to the "bughunt" line, terrorists hide themselves amongst civilians. I think it's better to draw out the terrorists into the open because that way we have a better chance of killing the terrorists and minimizing the civilian casualties.
Thank you Aaron! Finally somebody on this blog who is able to understand that ISRAEL is the agressor here. Let's not forget Hebrew conquest of Canaan in 1200 BC. There were people living there thousands of years before the Hebrews showed up. Let us also not forget the more recent history of the formation of the modern state of Israel. What about the bombing of the King David Hotel (1946), when a group of clandestine Hebrew nationalists smuggled explosives into the hotel and killed 91 people (some of whom were Jewish). How about the Irgun's kidnapping of a British Judge in the territory and demanding the release of Jewish prisoners? Sound familiar? The Jewish claim to the region is dubious at best and continues to be source of terror. There is no oil there. We get little but grief and bad reputation globally for our blind support of Israel. It's time we wake up and relinquish our support for any of the players in the region. No good has or will come of our continued presence there.
Thank you Aaron! Finally somebody on this blog who is able to understand that ISRAEL is the agressor here. Let's not forget Hebrew conquest of Canaan in 1200 BC. There were people living there thousands of years before the Hebrews showed up. Let us also not forget the more recent history of the formation of the modern state of Israel. What about the bombing of the King David Hotel (1946), when a group of clandestine Hebrew nationalists smuggled explosives into the hotel and killed 91 people (some of whom were Jewish). How about the Irgun's kidnapping of a British Judge in the territory and demanding the release of Jewish prisoners? Sound familiar? The Jewish claim to the region is dubious at best and continues to be source of terror. There is no oil there. We get little but grief and bad reputation globally for our blind support of Israel. It's time we wake up and relinquish our support for any of the players in the region. No good has or will come of our continued presence there.
Henry, you expose you ignorance almost as well as aaron! You did not show us a single example of why we should consider the Israeli government a terrorist regime! Go talk to some radical muslims and get back to me! They don't kill Israeli's just cause they took over some land in the region, they kill Israeli's because they are jews & Infidels(just like you & I)! Pull your heads out people! This isn't about an oppressive giant named Israel. Oh and Henry, next time a conservative moves into your area you might as well just send some suicide bombers to deal with them eh!!!
The present action in Israel brings back memories of another day and another war:
In 1973 the Arab world started the Yom Kippur war against the Israelis, and of course the American Government stepped up to support their allies with equipment and war supplies. I was assigned to Charleston AFB in South Carolina as a Flight Engineer on C-141's during this period and was on one of the first aircraft to takeoff toward Israel with supplies.
Our first stop was Warner Robins AFB in Macon Georgia, a large Supply Base for the Air Force. We had a crew of two Pilots, one Navigator, two Flight Engineers and one Loadmaster. We landed at Warner Robins where ground crews proceeded to load sixty-five thousand pounds of high explosive shells and ammunition for the tanks of the Israeli Military.
We were loaded and ready to go just about midnight and took off headed east toward Lajes AFB in the Azores. The Flight Plan was to crew rest at Lajes, then takeoff and fly through the Straits of Gibraltar. It had to be an over water flight all the way to Lod Air Port in Tel Aviv because the Arabs were angry with the United States for helping Israel in their war effort and threatened to cut off oil to any country in Europe who gave assistance to the United States in their support of Israel.
This put a lot of pressure on the Navigator who had to navigate us over International waters all the way to Israel from the Azores. We were under orders that if we had an in-flight emergency that caused us to have to make an emergency landing that we were to ditch the plane in the ocean as no country along the route of flight would give us permission to land. They did not want to have their oil supply cut off by the Arabs for aiding the Israelis.
Our Pilot was one of the funniest Pilots it was my pleasure to know. I spent many trips with him flying all over the world and had so much fun with this guy that I knew we were in for some adventures with him as Pilot in command. My other Flight Engineer was a good old Georgia Boy, Jack Anderson, who was to lose his life some years later by being shot down over Africa while flying missions for the UN in a C-130.
We took off early the next morning after a night at the NCO Club and split the Straits of Gibraltar right down the middle. We were cruising at 35,000 feet and passed by the Southern tip of Spain, south of Italy and south of Greece heading east to Israel. Normally at 35,000 feet we would start our descent 100 miles out from the airport we planned to land.
Sometime in the recent past, Israeli soldiers had blown up a Russian airplane at an Amman, Jordan airport. This really ticked off a terrorist group called the "Black September Group" They vowed to blow up or shoot down an American plane in retaliation for this act by the Israelis.
Because of this threat, the Israeli Defense Force would send out fighter aircraft to escort our cargo planes once we entered Israeli air space. This just happened to coincide with the 100 miles distance from the Airport we were heading for.
We were tooling along around 600 knots ground speed just southeast of Greece when the Israeli F-4 fighters joined up with us off our wing tips.
We got so involved with taking pictures of these fighters and watching them flip upside down next to us to give us better pictures of them that we passed our descent point.
Instead of the normal 100 miles to descend, we were down to thirty miles from the airport and had to get down fast. All aircraft, by flight rules have to fly no faster than 250 knots at ten thousand feet and lower so that they can be controlled by ground controllers.
We could not legally go out of Israeli airspace to slow down as their country is so small that we would have crossed into Arab airspace and that was an invitation to shoot us down and we sure didn't relish that idea!
Barry cracked the Flight Spoilers, pulled the throttles back to idle, and pushed the nose over in a penetration approach. We came screaming down with the Mediterranean Sea filling the windscreen! 30,000 feet, 25,000 feet, 20,000 feet, 15,000 feet, the altimeter was unwinding as if we were in an elevator!
Ten miles to go and we were just passing through 10,000 feet. We were supposed to be at 250 knots, but was still scorching the sky at 550 knots!
We were teasing Barry that he was gonna get busted for breaking all kinds of flight rules and he was gonna get a speeding ticket to boot! We were laughing, but he was sweating up a storm trying to get 200,000 pounds of aircraft safely down with 65,000 pounds of high explosives right behind our butts.
He got us down to our approach altitude but we were still screaming through the air at 400 knots as we crossed the shoreline into Israel. We slowed down to 300 knots as we passed over the Airport and had to make 4 circles before we got the airplane slowed enough for our approach.
I told Barry that if we had hit any one of the hundreds of airplanes flying around there he would have won the war for the Arabs when 65,000 pounds of explosives blew Tel Aviv and Lod off the face of the earth. He asked me if I thought the Arabs would give his family free gasoline for the rest of their lives if he had won the war for the Arabs.
We eventually got the aircraft on the ground and parked safely. When we opened the door we had a welcoming committee of Golda Mier, and Moshe Dayan, the Premier, and Minister of the Israeli Defense Force. They gave each one of us a Key Ring as a welcoming gift. I still have mine, it is a little faded, but a reminder of how we almost won the Yom Kippur war for the Arabs.
See "Operation Nickel Grass"
My opinion about this whole Terrorist thing is that they are chickens and do not know how to fight fair. Israeli's and USA wear uniforms that just come out and say "here I am" and the chicken Terrorists hide behind civilians and wear normal clothes so troops do not know who they are. And these Terrorist do not have a real reason why they want to go after the West, they just love to fight. They lie and use religion as a excuse. Seems to me their god must be crazy to create all of us and then what make them superior? I don't think so. I think they all need day jobs to keep themselves busy. And just for a history lesson, Israel is the land of the Jews go back in time it is not Arab land. Abraham and God promised it to these people, Jewish line is from the wife, and Arab line is from the handmaden, I wish these Arabs would get it straight.