The democratic party claiming to be champions of civil liberties is the height of hypocrisy, yes.
The fight for civil liberties is, and always has been, a battle against government officials from both parties that seek to abuse their power. Clinton's administration was full of these, and Bush is merely continuing Clinton's legacy in this regard.
Posted by: Nate at July 14, 2006 05:19 PM
Heaven forbid if our representatives use their observational skills to find out what “we the people” are thinking about, and our interests and concerns. The conservative way of “do as I tell you” has worked so well.
Posted by: Barneyg2000 at July 14, 2006 05:24 PM
The Republicans are way ahead of the Dems on gathering information on voters. The "Voter Vault" is one good example.
I guess it's OK when the GOP does it, but not when the DNC does the same. Typical double-standard, Mark.
Wade
Posted by: Wade at July 14, 2006 05:25 PM
The Republicans are way ahead of the Dems on gathering information on voters. The "Voter Vault" is one good example.
I guess it's OK when the GOP does it, but not when the DNC does the same. Typical double-standard, Mark.
The civil liberties issue applies to government agancies collecting information without warrants and abusing the power to snoop into peoples' lives.
Private groups can attempt to collect any information they want because as a private citizen you can decline to provide information. The DNC's attempts to get information on --gasp-- what issues matter to people certainly is voluntary.
Wade
Posted by: Wade at July 14, 2006 05:28 PM
Does Howard Dean begin his bio with the words "the details of my life are quite inconsequential..."?
Posted by: Bret Helm at July 14, 2006 05:37 PM
Posted by: Freedom1 at July 14, 2006 05:44 PM
Blarney,
The objective of this democrat domestic spying is to tyr to determine "what the people are thinking" so they can "tell the people what they want to hear". That's a far cry from actually having a political position which can be articulated and which does not change. In otherwords, you leftists just want power for power's sake.
You have no plan and no core values...or at least none that you really want the electorate to know about.
The really pathetic part of this strategy is that you leftists also believe that the electorate is too stupid to see through your facade and also too stupid to know what's good fot themselves.
Posted by: phnxbmed at July 14, 2006 05:47 PM
This is part and parcel of the mentality of a party that has always made policy decisions based on polls. Clinton never so much as took a dump without checking the polls. Bush could have 60%-plus popularity if he governed like that, but just think of the mess the country would be in.
Posted by: Darby at July 14, 2006 05:57 PM
"Byrd Droppings." Perfect!
She quotes a revealing Republican strategy and recommends Democrats learn from it:
"Mort Kondracke gave some really good advice to Democrats back in 2004: 'My post-election advice to Democrats is: Go to church. Don’t go to 'get religion,' although it might be good for your soul. Just go, in the first instance, to 'get' religion, i.e. understand what goes on in the heads and hearts of those who devoutly believe in God and how it affects their views of the world. It will help you politically.'"
Is Byrd advocating studying religious people by attending church in order to manipulate them politically? Hard to believe she'd admit that.
She calls her blog "Byrd Droppings." Precious!
Posted by: congressive at July 14, 2006 06:01 PM
"Clinton never so much as took a dump without checking the polls. Bush could have 60%-plus popularity if he governed like that, but just think of the mess the country would be in."
We're already there. 4 largest deficit this year only preceeded by the 1,2 and 3rd largest deficits in the history of our country, taliban back in Afghanistan, mess in Iraq(complete incompetence), more people in poverty, 3rd world countries hit by the tsunami in better shape than New Orleans, Iran about to get nuclear weapons, North Korea stockpiling nukes, $3+ gas, Hamas takes over, a possible war in the middle east, more people in poverty, middle class shrinking, health care skyrocketing, ect.
We need to demand more of leaders. If only the dems had a pair and a plan. We need new leadership all around.
Posted by: purplenation at July 14, 2006 06:37 PM
Well I have to agree with you Mark in that Dems should not be going out of their way to pander to deeply religious voters. We already have a political party that does that. The Dems should not be overtly anti-religious, no, but they need to be the party of independent reason and science in the face superstition and Talibanesque encroachments on our constitutional rights. Futhermore, manipulating people for political gain by appealing to their religious beliefs is wrong - which is why the Dems should not try to emulate the grotesque religious lip-service paid by the Republicans.
There needs to be a party that stands for both freedom of religion AND freedom from religion.
By the way, don't the religious fundies get tired of being fodder in the perpetual culture wars manufactured by the Right? The real goals of the Right are to serve wealthy corporate elites, not Christian fundies - they only use religious themes to get elected. The corporate Right has no intention of actually doing something about abortion, gays, school prayer, and other issues important to the religious base they take for granted. Nay, they need these issues to remain unresolved in order to drive the fundies to the polls so that they can enact their real agenda, which is a greedy concentration of wealth and the constitution of a new aristocracy.
Posted by: Aarontime at July 14, 2006 06:42 PM
Barney0000,
As long as the domestic spying has nothing to do with making us safer, or spying on terrorists, it must be OK! Besides, I'm certain all of the lefts Commander in Chiefs have special constitutional powers to invade private homes and spy, as long as it does not involve terrorist spying.
The Left is a joke. A very bad joke.
Posted by: SEW at July 14, 2006 06:43 PM
The Left already knows what kind of people you are, they are just trying to figure out who you eat and how often. Peace
Posted by: steve at July 14, 2006 07:14 PM
Darby, good point. I got so many of those "at what time should president Clinton defecate today?" calls from polsters, I just started hanging up.
But no, seriously, I do agree.
Posted by: Nate at July 14, 2006 07:24 PM
Why don't the Dems just be who they are? Won't honesty and integrity get them elected? It works for Republicans...
Posted by: AshandBarneyareLovers at July 14, 2006 07:39 PM
"Why don't the Dems just be who they are? Won't honesty and integrity get them elected? It works for Republicans..."
Just like you, Mr. Made Up Name. Bwahahahahah
Posted by:
Ash at July 14, 2006 07:41 PM
I don't understand the minds that develop this kind of canvassing advice. If they want to know about us, or what issues are important to us, why don't they just ask? Do Democrats believe we would lie for no reason? Do they have to camouflage everything to make it palatable for ordinary Americans?
Posted by: David/California at July 14, 2006 07:45 PM
Purplenation...that's total crap. Largest deficits by dollar amounts yes, but by GDP % it's not even in the top 40 all time so give it a rest.
Take a look at WWII or parts of the 1960's and 1970's when our deficit spending as part of GDP was 10X what is now.
You guys are so easily tweaked by faux data it makes one's head spin.
Posted by: Warriornation at July 14, 2006 08:17 PM
Bumper sticker suggestion for the FRONT bumper:
RUN, HILLARY, RUN!
Posted by:
Reverend Scaramonga at July 14, 2006 08:19 PM
If the democratic party wanted to win over people of faith, a good first start to would be to remove from their platform the right to choose to kill babies. If they said that it is wrong to kill 4,000 babies per day, they might make some progress.
Posted by: james allegro at July 14, 2006 08:34 PM
Hey dems, can we drill in ANWAR now. Can we drill offshore now. Can we build a new refinary now. Can we build a new nuclear plant now. Or do you love the terrorist countries that much.
Posted by: james allegro at July 14, 2006 08:45 PM
Reverend Scaramonga,
Bwahahahaha!!! That's so funny!!
:)
Posted by: Freedom1 at July 14, 2006 08:55 PM
Posted by: Mark Noonan at July 14, 2006 08:56 PM
Aarontime,
Its worse than just pandering - it is dishonest pandering. At least when a GOPer gets up there and make a religious speech, there's some "oomph" behind it...Democrats seem to think that if they just say "praise the Lord" from time to time, that they'll hoodwink Christians in to supporting abortion on demand.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at July 14, 2006 08:58 PM
Great ideas, james allegro!
Posted by: Freedom1 at July 14, 2006 09:05 PM
No to ANWR.
Yes to drilling offshore with careful supervision.
Yes to new refineries, if they aren't too costly (for example more than 2 days spent in Iraq). With the knowledge that these 2 yeses are temporary stop gaps.
No to nuclear plants. (No safe way to store)
Do we love terrorist countries too much> Not a valid question.
Posted by:
Ash at July 14, 2006 11:35 PM
Scara!!!
I'm so happy to see you here. Hope to see some classic fisking soon... you're the champ :)
Posted by: LNC at July 15, 2006 01:29 AM
Ash,
No safe way to store? Yeah, we've had all those deaths and injuries because of un-stored nuclear waste these past 50 years...what was the number killed by un-stored nuke waste? Lemme think a sec...ah, yeah, that it: ZERO.
Posted by: Mark Noonan at July 15, 2006 02:28 AM
CLICK HERE for radiation deaths (list under construction.)
Posted by: congressive at July 15, 2006 06:31 AM
"Yes to offshore drilling with careful supervision" Ash
Might it be OK to have our knowledgable experts in DC on drilling do the supervising? The same one that are military experts? Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry? I mean they have so much expertise in everything, especially about fighting a war. Why do we even need war colleges for our brightest, or petroleum degrees for our brightest when there are born experts in all areas representing us in DC?
Don't let BushHitler/Chenney Halliburton near those rigs!
Posted by: SEW at July 15, 2006 08:47 AM
Mark,
Chernobyl. Game. Set. Match.
Posted by:
Ash at July 15, 2006 01:33 PM
Posted by:
Ash at July 15, 2006 01:40 PM
Congressive,
All of those sites your list are research facilities, not generation facilities or storage facilities.
So your point is??
Ash, Chernobyl??? That's relative how?
France generates the majority of its electrical power from nuclear reactors. Have you ever heard of an accident or death there as a result...no.
Game, set, match, and tournament.
Posted by: phnxbmed at July 15, 2006 04:09 PM
james allegro:
you going to adopt 4,000 babies a day?
you and all your friends?
Posted by: sam at July 15, 2006 04:58 PM
"France generates the majority of its electrical power from nuclear reactors. Have you ever heard of an accident or death there as a result...no."
phnxbmed
So you are saying France CAN do something right?
Posted by: Canadian Observer at July 16, 2006 10:54 AM
The democratic party claiming to be champions of civil liberties is the height of hypocrisy, yes.
The fight for civil liberties is, and always has been, a battle against government officials from both parties that seek to abuse their power. Clinton's administration was full of these, and Bush is merely continuing Clinton's legacy in this regard.
Heaven forbid if our representatives use their observational skills to find out what “we the people” are thinking about, and our interests and concerns. The conservative way of “do as I tell you” has worked so well.
The Republicans are way ahead of the Dems on gathering information on voters. The "Voter Vault" is one good example.
I guess it's OK when the GOP does it, but not when the DNC does the same. Typical double-standard, Mark.
Wade
The Republicans are way ahead of the Dems on gathering information on voters. The "Voter Vault" is one good example.
I guess it's OK when the GOP does it, but not when the DNC does the same. Typical double-standard, Mark.
The civil liberties issue applies to government agancies collecting information without warrants and abusing the power to snoop into peoples' lives.
Private groups can attempt to collect any information they want because as a private citizen you can decline to provide information. The DNC's attempts to get information on --gasp-- what issues matter to people certainly is voluntary.
Wade
Does Howard Dean begin his bio with the words "the details of my life are quite inconsequential..."?
Ok. That is creepy.
Blarney,
The objective of this democrat domestic spying is to tyr to determine "what the people are thinking" so they can "tell the people what they want to hear". That's a far cry from actually having a political position which can be articulated and which does not change. In otherwords, you leftists just want power for power's sake.
You have no plan and no core values...or at least none that you really want the electorate to know about.
The really pathetic part of this strategy is that you leftists also believe that the electorate is too stupid to see through your facade and also too stupid to know what's good fot themselves.
This is part and parcel of the mentality of a party that has always made policy decisions based on polls. Clinton never so much as took a dump without checking the polls. Bush could have 60%-plus popularity if he governed like that, but just think of the mess the country would be in.
"Byrd Droppings." Perfect!
She quotes a revealing Republican strategy and recommends Democrats learn from it:
"Mort Kondracke gave some really good advice to Democrats back in 2004: 'My post-election advice to Democrats is: Go to church. Don’t go to 'get religion,' although it might be good for your soul. Just go, in the first instance, to 'get' religion, i.e. understand what goes on in the heads and hearts of those who devoutly believe in God and how it affects their views of the world. It will help you politically.'"
Is Byrd advocating studying religious people by attending church in order to manipulate them politically? Hard to believe she'd admit that.
She calls her blog "Byrd Droppings." Precious!
"Clinton never so much as took a dump without checking the polls. Bush could have 60%-plus popularity if he governed like that, but just think of the mess the country would be in."
We're already there. 4 largest deficit this year only preceeded by the 1,2 and 3rd largest deficits in the history of our country, taliban back in Afghanistan, mess in Iraq(complete incompetence), more people in poverty, 3rd world countries hit by the tsunami in better shape than New Orleans, Iran about to get nuclear weapons, North Korea stockpiling nukes, $3+ gas, Hamas takes over, a possible war in the middle east, more people in poverty, middle class shrinking, health care skyrocketing, ect.
We need to demand more of leaders. If only the dems had a pair and a plan. We need new leadership all around.
Well I have to agree with you Mark in that Dems should not be going out of their way to pander to deeply religious voters. We already have a political party that does that. The Dems should not be overtly anti-religious, no, but they need to be the party of independent reason and science in the face superstition and Talibanesque encroachments on our constitutional rights. Futhermore, manipulating people for political gain by appealing to their religious beliefs is wrong - which is why the Dems should not try to emulate the grotesque religious lip-service paid by the Republicans.
There needs to be a party that stands for both freedom of religion AND freedom from religion.
By the way, don't the religious fundies get tired of being fodder in the perpetual culture wars manufactured by the Right? The real goals of the Right are to serve wealthy corporate elites, not Christian fundies - they only use religious themes to get elected. The corporate Right has no intention of actually doing something about abortion, gays, school prayer, and other issues important to the religious base they take for granted. Nay, they need these issues to remain unresolved in order to drive the fundies to the polls so that they can enact their real agenda, which is a greedy concentration of wealth and the constitution of a new aristocracy.
Barney0000,
As long as the domestic spying has nothing to do with making us safer, or spying on terrorists, it must be OK! Besides, I'm certain all of the lefts Commander in Chiefs have special constitutional powers to invade private homes and spy, as long as it does not involve terrorist spying.
The Left is a joke. A very bad joke.
The Left already knows what kind of people you are, they are just trying to figure out who you eat and how often. Peace
Darby, good point. I got so many of those "at what time should president Clinton defecate today?" calls from polsters, I just started hanging up.
But no, seriously, I do agree.
Why don't the Dems just be who they are? Won't honesty and integrity get them elected? It works for Republicans...
"Why don't the Dems just be who they are? Won't honesty and integrity get them elected? It works for Republicans..."
Just like you, Mr. Made Up Name. Bwahahahahah
I don't understand the minds that develop this kind of canvassing advice. If they want to know about us, or what issues are important to us, why don't they just ask? Do Democrats believe we would lie for no reason? Do they have to camouflage everything to make it palatable for ordinary Americans?
Purplenation...that's total crap. Largest deficits by dollar amounts yes, but by GDP % it's not even in the top 40 all time so give it a rest.
Take a look at WWII or parts of the 1960's and 1970's when our deficit spending as part of GDP was 10X what is now.
You guys are so easily tweaked by faux data it makes one's head spin.
Bumper sticker suggestion for the FRONT bumper:
RUN, HILLARY, RUN!
If the democratic party wanted to win over people of faith, a good first start to would be to remove from their platform the right to choose to kill babies. If they said that it is wrong to kill 4,000 babies per day, they might make some progress.
Hey dems, can we drill in ANWAR now. Can we drill offshore now. Can we build a new refinary now. Can we build a new nuclear plant now. Or do you love the terrorist countries that much.
Reverend Scaramonga,
Bwahahahaha!!! That's so funny!!
:)
Reverend,
Welcome back!
Aarontime,
Its worse than just pandering - it is dishonest pandering. At least when a GOPer gets up there and make a religious speech, there's some "oomph" behind it...Democrats seem to think that if they just say "praise the Lord" from time to time, that they'll hoodwink Christians in to supporting abortion on demand.
Great ideas, james allegro!
No to ANWR.
Yes to drilling offshore with careful supervision.
Yes to new refineries, if they aren't too costly (for example more than 2 days spent in Iraq). With the knowledge that these 2 yeses are temporary stop gaps.
No to nuclear plants. (No safe way to store)
Do we love terrorist countries too much> Not a valid question.
Scara!!!
I'm so happy to see you here. Hope to see some classic fisking soon... you're the champ :)
Ash,
No safe way to store? Yeah, we've had all those deaths and injuries because of un-stored nuclear waste these past 50 years...what was the number killed by un-stored nuke waste? Lemme think a sec...ah, yeah, that it: ZERO.
CLICK HERE for radiation deaths (list under construction.)
"Yes to offshore drilling with careful supervision" Ash
Might it be OK to have our knowledgable experts in DC on drilling do the supervising? The same one that are military experts? Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry? I mean they have so much expertise in everything, especially about fighting a war. Why do we even need war colleges for our brightest, or petroleum degrees for our brightest when there are born experts in all areas representing us in DC?
Don't let BushHitler/Chenney Halliburton near those rigs!
Mark,
Chernobyl. Game. Set. Match.
Any further comments, Mark?
Congressive,
All of those sites your list are research facilities, not generation facilities or storage facilities.
So your point is??
Ash, Chernobyl??? That's relative how?
France generates the majority of its electrical power from nuclear reactors. Have you ever heard of an accident or death there as a result...no.
Game, set, match, and tournament.
james allegro:
you going to adopt 4,000 babies a day?
you and all your friends?
"France generates the majority of its electrical power from nuclear reactors. Have you ever heard of an accident or death there as a result...no."
phnxbmed
So you are saying France CAN do something right?