There are two ways to end, really end the conflict.

One way, is for all sides to mellow and come to terms with each other. That way has not happened. Nor do I believe it is very likely. Frankly both sides have acted like jerks in many respects. Though, I think that the Israelis come off a little better.

The other way, is complete and total victory for one side or the other. Since the current situation is that Israel can probably destroy all the nations opposing it (locally), this could be a bloody path. The Palestinian/Arab way has been to hide behind a veil of deniability letting "independent" militias do the killing. Military and civilians, adults and children have been fair PRIMARY targets. Israel has killed its share of kids too - though usually they seem to be collateral damage.

With Syria possibly having material for WMD from Iraq (whether we believe it or not, Israel might), and Iran on the road to nukes. Israel may decide to end this war now. Decisively. Nuclear strikes on Syrian and Iranian (and even possibly Saudi Arabian) military units AND possibly major population centers would end the war and bring peace to the area. And yes, I understand how bloody that peace would be. But from Jerusalem – that blood might just be the right shade of red. The ball is in the Arabs court – they can decide if they want peace or war. BUT, they may not be able to control the intensity of war any longer. It’s possible (and even desirable in some circles) that war will be total and devastating. We had to utterly destroy Germany and Japan to get peace – could be that is what we will see.

Kahn,

Let us hope it doesn't come to that.

Khan, it's hard to disagree with you on what you've written. Given what happened in '67 & 73(?), it's hard to believe that any Arab state would want to tangle with Israel. My question to you is, how do we get the Europeans, Russians and Chinese to involved to try and diffuse this situation? I truly believe that their acquiesence has emboldened the various nations in the Mideast to escalate this agression against Israel.

Frankly both sides have acted like jerks in many respects. Though, I think that the Israelis come off a little better.
~~~~~~~

LMAO. Yeah right. The Israelis send in sucide bombers to popular civilian locations to murder people.

I think Israel just needs to just destroy them all.

Looks like WWIV just heated up...

Hey, Frank, long time, no see, heh.

My question to you is, how do we get the Europeans, Russians and Chinese to [be] involved to try and diffuse this situation? I truly believe that their acquiesence has emboldened the various nations in the Mideast to escalate this agression against Israel.

Ezekiel, that is the million dollar question. Welcome to Geopolitics 101.

Kahn, like Mark, I hope your scenario doesn't materialize, but, at this point nothing would surprise me. One thing's certain -- The Road Map is kaput.

I think Israel just needs to just destroy them all.

AFW, be careful what you wish for.

I hope Israel rolls all the way through to Damascus. Syria and Iraq would make a fabulous bridgehead. Then with Afghanistan in the mix, we can squeeze the hell out of Iran. Double pincer movement all the way, baby.

Stan, mums the word, 'kay? My past is sacred to me.

We're at a crossroads in the Middle East. Israel has had enough, it appears. This could get ugly in a hurry.

Bret,

Just hear on TV that Israel has bombed the roads leading from Damascus to Beirut. I don't know about a march on Damascus, but what we've got here is a real war, and I don't know where it will wind up...

Looks like it's gonna drive up oil prices--time for some real sacrifices here in America. Anyone got a lib they want to offer up for sacrifice? Just kidding.

U.S. vetoed a U.N. resolution condemning Israel for defending itself--well done, Ambassador Bolton!!!

:(
God be with them.

I think Israel just needs to just destroy them all.

AFW, be careful what you wish for.

Posted by: Retired Spook at July 13, 2006 05:33 PM

~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah, I know. Im a passionate person, what can I say ? LOL

"U.S. vetoed a U.N. resolution condemning Israel for defending itself--well done, Ambassador Bolton!!!" Posted by: Frank (R-SC) Wright

Awesome! God bless John Bolton!:) (keefer, is that you?) Oh, and I think you skipped a war. It's the start of World War III.

Question for you Christians out there: Does anyone think these events could lead us into the Apocalypse? I'm serious.

Israel has been using a lot of restraint for the most part in the past. Now they've obviously have had quite enough and refuse to take one iota more from their enemies. I believe they now realize diplomacy has failed and being defensive has failed. I feel they have chosen the most aggressive attack available to them. I can't say one way or another whether they will escalate to the point of nuclear attack, but I do feel they will not stop until they have achieve what they feel is absolutely victory. The comments I have heard from President Bush indicate that he's backing them for the moment. The next few days are going to be interesting to say the least.

AFWIFE,

I'm totally with you on your assessment of Israel. Israel doesn't send suicide bombers to target innocent civilians. The "Palestinians" do. Also, Hamas' Charter states that it wants to destroy the state of Israel. There's no negotiating with these mass-murdering terrorists.

Kahn,

Do you think Israel could pull off those strikes without using nuclear weapons, just conventional weapons like MOAB's (or the Israeli equivalent), etc?

Good news! via LGF-Israel Intends to 'Break' Hizballah

The Jerusalem Post: Defense Minister Amir Peretz said Thursday night that, “We expected Hizbullah to break the rules, and now we intend to break them.

“We do not mean for this event to end when the situation returns to how things were a few days ago,” he said.

"The comments I have heard from President Bush indicate that he's backing them for the moment. The next few days are going to be interesting to say the least." Posted by: Carl

YAY to President Bush!
:)

I think Israel's enemies have shrewdly waited until her staunchest ally (us) is tied up with other priorites before ganging up on her. I think these enemies are in for a rude surprise, since Israel can still deal with the lot of them with ease, all by her lonesome.

Quote:

Missiles fired in to northern Israel - pray for Israel.

Uhm, is there any way you could possibly say pray for EVERYONE over there right now? A lot of absolutely innocent people are going to die - Arab and Israeli alike. I'm sure some of those already dead are completely innocent. I'm not seeing any love thrown down for completely innocent Arab childen, etc.

Is there any compassion here? Am I just not seeing it (completely possible)?

"Question for you Christians out there: Does anyone think these events could lead us into the Apocalypse? I'm serious."

Freedom1,

Yes, I BELIEVE this could lead to the second coming of christ, No doubt about it!!!!!!

ALL JOKING SET ASIDE!!

The thing is, or the sad thing is, I should say, is that, America has been so laid back, with the easy life and so-forth, and all at the same time this is happening they give no thought to how SERIOUS it REALLY IS!!

All they can come up with is the lie fed by the liberals is: blame it on bush!!

The devil has blinded the democrats so much it is sad!! All while reckoning day approaches!!

I can tell the left that, president bush, is very aware of the end times, he has been paying attention to Gods Holy word, and is devoting his life to it!!

And if people don't wake up!!, and start paying attention to what His(Gods) word tells us to do, then there will be many, many, wake up some morning, and in hell, all because they did not obey!!

:(
'

I wish someone would go onto Fox news channel interrupting ALL programs asking America to REPENT AND TURN BACK TO JESUS!!

There is some serious decisions about to be made by Israel tomorrow!!

Let's pray for Israel!! and their VICTORY!!!

Jeremiah

The battle for the soul of Israel is almost done. How much longer will the Zionists try to hold out against the souls of Yahweh? The USA should immediately reestablish full diplomatic relations with Iran. Peace

Jeremiah,

I, too, wish that someone-perhaps President Bush-would go on the Fox News channel and ask America to repent and turn back to Jesus, and also to pray for Israel. Imagine how the prayers of 280 million Americans might touch God!
:)

"Uhm, is there any way you could possibly say pray for EVERYONE over there right now?...I'm not seeing any love thrown down for completely innocent Arab childen, etc." Posted by: not_a_believer

I do pray for everyone over there-Muslims, Palestinians, even Hamas and Hezbollah-that they may throw down their weapons and their hatred and stop attacking Israel. Also, I wish Hamas would stop using completely innocent Arab children as human shields.

(keefer, is that you?)

Who? No, I know no "keefer," R23...

Things have gone from bad to FUBAR quite quickly over there. The whole situation is coming to a head, and quite possibly within our lifetimes we'll see an "end" to this. What kind of end it'll be is beyond me, but I'm not expecting a clean ending.

There are times like these that I sometimes think the world needs a reminder of how bad war can be. How one bomb can remove a city from the map and leave people dying for years. Making war something that is horrendous and unimaginable is a powerful factor in preventing them. Making sure everyone knows that if you need to you'll wipe them from the face of the earth is a strong incentive not start anything.

Then again, the problem with this is folks won't react as one might hope. The unforseen consequences are staggering.

TUBOJ UTLFJ UI...

(keefer, is that you?)

Who? No, I know no "keefer," R23...

Posted by: Frank (R-SC) Wright

Sorry. My apologies.
:)

Gozer quote--
"Then again, the problem with this is folks won't react as one might hope. The unforseen consequences are staggering."--

That's why America needs to start trusting in God as their source for HOPE!!

Because there is NO HOPE without Jesus christ!!

Jeremiah

Note that with the exception of steve's moronic comment above, none of the regular moonbats have chimed in to impart their wisdom on this issue. Even the Koskids and the DUmmies are silent, as if nothing is happening in the middle east besides Iraq.

Both leftist blogs seem to think that the Plame lawsuit, and the latest poll are more news worthy. Is it any wonder they are out of touch with reality?

"Also, I wish Hamas would stop using completely innocent Arab children as human shields."

Yes like the human shields they used when Isreal killed a Palestinian family on a beach in late June with a shell that fell hundreds yards short of its intended target, which is actually what prompted Hamas to call an end to the pre-existing ceasefire.

And instead of admiting the truth about that incident, apologizing, and maybe paying reparations to family members (I don't know what type of precedent there might be for that, but I have feeling there isnt any); they make up this:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/13/mideast.probe/

Killing civilians is killing civilians, whether Hamas uses suicide bombers or Isreal uses tank shells, artillery shells, etc. doesnt make a difference. If you lost your mother, father, brother, or sister, I highly doubt you would care how; and it shouldn't really matter.

If this somehow resulted in a solution for peace than maybe I might be behind this large scale retribution that Isreal is undertaking, despite the civilian deaths, because I know in the end it might save more lives with a permanent peace. But its not, for every Palestinian civilian Isreal kills they create 10 more suicide bombers waiting in the wings. You don't quell militants by killing innocents, and they are not gonna care if it was accidental, especially if Isreal is totally insenstive to the carnage they are creating for regular citizens.

But in the end this is not gonna solve anything, its pretty simple, its revenge, not a solution. Things will only get worse, but of course being the humane people we are we can just nuke Lebonanes, Syrian, and Iranian military units, and maybe population centers. But no, if we just do this to military units we'll leave millions who, after such a inexplicably evil act will resist any occupation with more vigor, so they have to go too, unfortunately. You people make me ashamed to call myself a human being.

Jeremiah, you surely need to meet 'your' maker. I have a few suggestions in case you're drawing a blank.

"you surely need to meet 'your' maker. I have a few suggestions in case you're drawing a blank."
__________________________________________________

3moreyears,

We will all meet Him!!

Question is, Who will be ready!!, to spend eternity with Him?

A.

Everyone who believes and has been saved!!

next question. Are you saved?

Jeremiah

To put Isreal's actions into perspective, what would be our reaction if missles were launched on a daily basis into our country from terrorists based in Mexico or Canada. Would we not hold these govenments responsible? would we not immediately cross the border with troops to stip the terrorists?

Remember a nuclear war was almost started because the Soviets placed missles in Cuba.

Isreal is completely justified, even under the UM charter, to defend themselves in this case.

Let's hope they are successful in destroying Hamas and Hezbollah, and if necessary, Syria and Iran, the state sponsors of these terrorist groups.

Jeremiah,

I've been ready for longer than you've been alive. Being saved has nothing to do with it as you will soon discover. The savior is within, not without. I'm sorry to inform you that saying the words does not equal being the being.

Where the heck are Ash and other muckrackers that seem to want to stir things up on this board.

Be interesting to hear their input on this situation....but, please, don't blame terrorists blowing up buses with civilians and shooting missiles into Israel on Bush....or the resulting response of Israel on Bush.

When planes flew into the buildings on 9-11, I immediately stated to my wife that we will be dealing with this for the next 20 years in the Middle East. Israel may be doing us a favor so that within one to two years radical Islam will have been served a can of woop-ass and will be forced by members of the world to moderate their religion of have every Mosque around taken down.

There is only one religion in current times that has consistently caused problems in the US, Britain, Spain, France, The Netherlands, India, and throughout the Middle East. If the religion cannot be moderated by those within it (just as what happened to Christianity several hundred years ago), then the religion must be removed. Yes, call it WWIII if you want.

MIN LIB

"I'm sorry to inform you that saying the words does not equal being the being."

Did I say I am God???????

"being saved has nothing to do with it as you will soon discover."

Romans 10:9-10

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness. AND WITH THE MOUTH CONFESSION IS MADE UNTO SALVATION!!

So, 3moreyears, if you are'nt saved? then you need to confess him as your saviour!!!

Because CONFESSION IS SALVATION!!!

Jeremiah

Jeremiah,

Keep on dreaming. It suits you well. In spite of what you believe that to mean, accepting Jesus into your heart is much, much more than saying the words. It's possible that you are missing something in the King James translation. You must in fact BE before attaining spiritual enlightenment. Just saying that you've accepted Jesus IS NOT sufficient. Please stop reading a translation of a translation as THE TRUTH and ABSOLUTE word of God. Only then, perhaps, you will begin to SEE.

Jesus said:

I am the way the TRUTH and the life, and NO man cometh unto the Father but by me!!

"Just saying that you've accepted Jesus IS NOT sufficient."

Absolutely.:) You confess Him, and then you live by Him!!

Jeremiah

Blah, blah, blah, verse, verse, verse. You have religion but no faith. I have faith but no religion. What are we to do? It is your lot who condemn me and my kind who have seen and yet do not succumb. It is you and your kind who will find, at the end, the long road has not yet been traveled. Reading and regurgitating what man has said in a book is not the same as touching the face of God.

"Reading and regurgitating what man has said in a book is not the same as touching the face of God."

Then you are faithless.

Jeremiah

Funny, that's what I just called you my friend.

"Funny, that's what I just called you my friend."
..................................................

The difference here is. I DO BELIEVE IN JESUS WORDS!!

you don't!!

Jeremiah

No, the difference is that I live and act as Jesus did and you do not.

No, the difference is that I live and act as Jesus did and you do not.

"No, the difference is that I live and act as Jesus did and you do not."
............................................

You can't live and act like him, and not believe in his words, that's denial!!

Jesus said:

"He who disowns me, I will disown him also before my heavenly father!!"

Jeremiah

3moreyears,

You should listen to Jeremiah. He's trying to help you to avoid an eternity in Hell. Jesus Christ is the TRUTH. Jesus Christ is our Savior.

Jesus said:

I am the way the TRUTH and the life, and NO man cometh unto the Father but by me!!

Simply proclaiming Jesus as your personal savior and spewing gospel is NOT sufficient. You must BE a Christian and, judging from your other posts on this blog, you are not. You are nothing more than another name on the televangelist's donor list.

Freedom1,

Perhaps you should spend a little time reading what I wrote before you judge.

???

*Looks at the blog title*

Umm... since when did this become Blogs for Jesus? (Though I'd be surprised if there wasn't one.) Weren't we talking about the middle east and all the problems there? Personal issues of someone's soul is between them and their creator. Spouting spiritual gobledigook at one another isn't going to change that.

Back on topic, what is Turkey, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia doing during all of this? They're RIGHT THERE after all and if there was a nuke set off there they'd have to deal with the repercussions as well.

Gozer, perhaps you haven't been around enough but this is blogs for Bush/Jesus. Remember? Why else would Mark be asking us to pray for Israel?

Yawn, tiresome folks, goodnight.

3moreyears,

"Simply proclaiming Jesus as your personal savior and spewing gospel is NOT sufficient."

As I have said, You cannot act like Jesus and live like Jesus without testifying that JESUS WORDS ARE TRUE!!

SO..........

Here is what JESUS says about people like you...

Jesus said:

"I KNEW YOU!! YET YOU SLAY ME!!"

I'm finished argueing it with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeremiah

Sorry, I was going to bed but just one more.

Jeremiah,

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

The truth is pure and it can burn. Be careful.

Goodnight again.

Gozer,

Saudi Arabia is trying to distance itself from Hezbollah. I think Saudi Arabia's running scared.

Reuters article

Whoa, this is extraordinary! Lebanese Christians are asking Israel's IDF to take out Hezbollah and free Lebanon. Read the letters posted at Ynet News here: LGF.

I'm begining to think Jeremiah is not a plant and is a real person.

And that is scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blogs for Christ
Blog for Christ

Go ye, and sin no more.

The TErrorists need to be reminded that conventional warfare has certain advanteges over Assymetric warfare, and that Israel is MUCH MUCH better at it than they are.

"True justice can only be achieved through cool, calm, levelheaded armageddon."

I hate it having to happen, but sometimes there is no other choice.

"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Nations and peoples who forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms."

Heinlein

JAw JAw may be better than War war - but it requirexs to willing participants, and sometimes before someone will listen to negotiations they have to have the snot beaten out of them.

Ryan,

If history teaches us anything, it is that the nations who were pre-disposed to war, and found it to be the best way in dealing with insurgent forces, are the ones who have fallen.
(Rome, Napoleonic France, Imperialistic UK etc.)

To me, it seems much more plausible to fight these dimwits on their own ground, which is religion. You can't expect to convert a fanatic, but you can hope to lessen their ideological grip on the poor, and easily lead astray. If we can bolster to dialogue between the factions, I think we can help to heal the chasm which the barbarians in AQ et. al occupy to continue their false jihad. At some point we have to realize we can't cleanse a billion people from the globe, and kicking the crap out of them only serves to deepen the mistrust and contempt between the cultures. If one man (Pope john Paul II) can almost single-handedly bridge the gap between Jews and Christians in his lifetime, then there has to be a counterpart to bring the Sunni and Shia together, and help to get them on the right track towards peace.

DOes history teach that, TEO? History also teaches that the countries that try appeasement repeatedly cease to exist because the more agressive countries beat them up and take their lunch money. Try again.

Are you saying the UK FELL - the UK _Willingly_ decided to get rid of its colonial aquisitions because they were finding them more expensive to maintain than they were worth> THat is not the same as "Falling". Rome didn't fall because of military conquest but because they STOPPED - because they hired barbarians that didn't care about the army as mercenaries and allowed the threat of retaliation from them to diminish> YOur exampkles are not very good ones and would tend to indicate a somewhat shallow grasp of history. The SUni and SHia are not going to stop fighting until someone FORCES them to> YOu see, in the real world, people do not just suddenly go AHA! Drop their weapons link arms and start singing "Kumbayah". Hezbollah and Hamas are not going to "Talk it over" with Isrtael. THey are goign to keep trying to kill every last one of them until it beomes evident that it is totally impossible. AL Quaeda is not going to stop just because you try to "Open up dialouge" See, the problem with liberals is they assume the bad guys are reasonable and if you just talk to them they will stop. .sometimes they just AREN'T.

TEO

Please cite any historical antecedents which show that your theoretical strategy would work in the Middle East.

*****crickets******

Ryan,

TEACH IT BROTHER!!

You're doing a great job!!

I agree with everything you've said 100%

Kumbayah my Lord :)

Kumbayah!!!!!!!

Jeremiah

Well said, Ryan.

Phnxbmed,

Can you please cite me some examples of how razing entire cultures, and heavy-handed reactions to insurgent campaigns has created freedom and democracy?

We see how well Afghanistan turned out, or how about Vietnam, or British occupied Malaysia, or how about our little venture in the Seminole Wars.

If you want a powerful example of how a strong, unifying religious force can quell violence, then take a look at 'Pax Dei' instituted in the 10th century by the Catholic church. Here is an example of a religious people who could be brought under some sense of civil control by the non-violent actions of the church.

How about Ghandi?

If you look into the history of Islam, there is a precedent of religious "re-thinking". Using what is know as 'ijtihad' progressive sects of the religion can begin to speak out for peace, but that is going to involve us stepping out of the picture, otherwise they become colored by their opponents as 'puppets' of the west.

Ryan,

You seem to live in this world where everything which isn't armed conflict that leads to out and out surrender is somehow appeasement.

In any guerilla war, there are concessions made.

Ireland
Spain
Malaysia
Vietnam
Algeria etc.

So, as you can see, wars against insurgent forces, rarely, if ever come out in anything but mass-bloodshed and/or civil war (read:Greek Civil War). Your silly notion that refusing to fight the war that insurgents want is somehow "appeasement" is intellectually vacant at best; Sometimes the noble, and smart thing to do, is to let the cultures' handle their own acrimony, without attempting to steer them one way or the other. This 'hands-off' approach has never been tried with regards to the ME, infact, western powers have been so influencial in every major facet of ME history over the past century, that I am surprised it has taken so long for 'strong-man fundamentalism' to take root.

With regards to UK falling. They were forced from the colonies they held, not until the most recent incarnation of the Queen have we seen the magnanomous relinquishment of control to their former holdings.

Britain saw its 'empire' collapse due in no small part to the rash of uprisings in their occupied territories. Places like Afghanistan, Malaysia, and Tibet drained coffers and morale, leaving the Industry base in tatters and their flanks exposed to larger, and more regional enemies. As the time grew near to give-up on imperialism, the UK didn't even bother trying to stop uprisings anymore, such as in Kenya and Cyprus.

If you want to color the unmitigated failure to hold their dominion over occupied countries as something other than the "fall of the British empire", then so be it, I won't argue symantics, but I feel that I have made my point regarding the power of insurgent warfare.

Rome fell for many reasons, one of them was the tendency to 'outsource' their military, but much like the UK, they found it almost impossible to keep even a tenuous hold on their far-flung territories. If you are up to date on your Roman history, you would notice that two centuries of conflict had weakend their grasp of the outlying lands; We see a sort of silent-coup where local warlords were usurping power (and tax money) from the central government, and essentially setting up their own fiefdoms in Hun and Persian areas, these warlords became the protectorate of the people, not the central Roman government. At some point we see an all out indifference to the fraying of the tapestry in the "barbarized" portions of the empire, leading to the more vicious attempts by invaders, again, met by indifference by Legion members who were not only generally born and raised in these areas, but getting less, and less tax revenues from Rome.

In the last portion of your response, you go off on some ramblings about the Sunni and Shia never coming together, and how we have to somehow beat them back with our proverbial sticks to keep them in line. Well guess what, that was Saddam's answer to this exact problem, and if you seem to remember, we are the ones who helped him to keep power while he setup that institution of secular "harmony".

Hamas won in elections for one simple reason: They were the fartherst thing from the US/Israel as anyone could be, not because some vast majority of the population want's to see Israel pushed into the sea, infact from most polling done, they want a peaceful, two-state solution in the same numbers that Israelis do.

The one thing which isn't going to help the situation is more headlines in ME newspapers of civilians caught in Israeli bombings, this does nothing more than widen the divide between the moderate voice, and the hard-line voice. If we would spend one tenth of the budget we spend in propping up Israel on emboldening the moderate Imam of the ME, then I think it would pay dividends within a decade; Or we can just continue a war, with no ending, short of eradicating a billion people. Contrary to your assertions, there hasn't been a missle created which can kill and idea.

TEO. .tell me, do you think that Hezbolla and Hamas will EVER reach a negotiated settlement that involves Isrtael's existance?

And. . .Ireland doesn't really belong on that list. Last I checked, it was never the IRA's stated goal to "Push the English off of the British Isles and into the sea" but just to get them to leave Ireland> Vietnam SURE turned out well for abandoning it, didn't it?

Spain's problem is nowhere near solved, depending on which SPanish problem you are talking about.

You use a bad list of examples.

Again.

Germany. Japan.

Tell me the Japanese were not just as fanatical as the Islamofacists?

Your problem, TEO, is that you seem to think long verbal rants prove points which on their own have little chance of standing. You still have not once said how you propose that talking or diplomacy can ion any way shape or form solve IRan, Heizbollah, Hamas, Al - Quaeda . . .

and another not is that in each of those situations you mentioopned you were dealign with a nation - state not a armed terrorist group.

Please, do describe the TEO "Recipe for peace" with people whose only and stated goal is the complete annihilation of all who disagree with their extremist outlook on life.