and pray for their cure

I guess, deep down, the spiritual side of me prays for their cure, only because the pathology you so accurately describe is so self-destructive, but on a practical level, I work constantly for their defeat. Conservatives occasionally create their own unique problems, but the vast majority of our social and economic problems stem from the unintended (or sometimes intended) consequences of liberal, feel-good programs and political correctness run amuck.

Mark, will you PLEASE just STOP!!!!!

I am more Liberal minded, but I have some more Conservative friends. we can usually agree to disagree, something you have no concept of.

You make up paranoid delusions about the left hating the right, but it is not the case for all Liberals. In fact, the only right-wingers I have any animosity towards are those that continuously bash and hate the left and see absolutely no good from Liberals ideas. Oh, and they also take a stand of superiority from an ego trip that ONLY their way is right. Hmmm, Conservatives a little like you, Mark. I have no problems with Conservatives who show humility and understanding and the ability to admit when they are wrong and apologize for it. Unfortunately, Mark, you never seem to act like that kind of Conservative.

Mark, this entire site and your blogging is just a way to enact revenge on a few people who treated you badly a long time ago, a few Liberals who do not represent the whole. Am I right?

Is it right, Mark, to condemn an entire group for the actions of a few? That IS bigotry!

Not all Liberals are bad people Mark, just as not all Conservatives are good people. Please, Please, Please, for the love of God, admit that and stop your INCESSANT whining about how bad Liberals are.

Many Conservatives claim that Liberals are whiny and weak. But, you, Mark, by continuing to spread your Left-hating propaganda, are being nothing but a WHINY BABY!

What do you mean by liberal feel-good programs?

Signed,
Wondering in Colorado

Mark,

I couldn't agree more!!

The thing is the left gets angry with their own kind, when they stray from the truth!, and at the same time, if they thought they could do it, they would have everybody into slavery, which is what they want the most, for conservatives, they want everybody, to be under their communist dictatorship!!

Great post Mark!

keep them coming!! Let's show the world, for what the left really is!!

Jeremiah

It is a pathology - for a Christian, it is easily figure out: the world is fallen, ergo lies SEEM like they are better than the truth, and so a lot of people fall for lies...what is different between today and yesterday is that the methods of broadcasting lies are much superior than they used to be.

Think I'll do a post of what is untrue - see how many liberal/left people contest me on it.

Mark,

In my post where I said "their own kind" and then I say "stray from the truth" If you would please correct that for me, and delete the latter!!

Jeremiah

"It is a given, of course, that the left dislikes the right"

Actually this is not true. My dad is a hard-right conservative, and I love him dearly. We have GREAT debates over politics because neither will ever stoop to name-calling, and stick to what we call the "best-known truth" because anyone can be fooled by bad information. The defining line bewteen him and I almost always comes down to taking something on trust (him) vs. researching source material to verify (me).

When a liberal discovers error and deceipt, it doesn't matter if it comes from another liberal or a conservative. It is unacceptible. You are absolutely correct in stating that it doesn't work well in politics, but when futures are at stake, even politics must take a back seat to truth.

Political jab alert: Gangs and mobsters and mafia take oathes of loyalty. There are not many liberals in those ranks as a result.

Mob boss: "We're gonna take out the west side gang, see, cause they're encroachng on our turf, see."

Liberal gansta: "Yeah, but how will they pay for childcare if they don't have access to emerging markets? Couldn't we pool our HR and grow total marketshare while reducing expenses through combining efficiencies? Maybe even foster loyalty through a benefits package?"

Mob boss: "You idiot. Where's my baseball bat?"

Robert,

Just where, in this post, do I mention the word "liberal"?

If you want to identify your liberalism with the likes of Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, Jesse Jackson, Nancy Pelosi, et al, then that is your own look out - as for the other liberals I know, they can't distance themselves fast enough or far enough away from the leftwing lunatics who have taken over the Democratic Party.

I'm a conservative, Robert, and thus I believe that liberalism is based upon an incorrect view of the human condition. Given this, it is a natural thing for me to also hold that liberal prescriptions are uniformly wrong. It isn't a matter of admitting that one is wrong - it is a matter that liberalism can't possibly get it right.

On the other hand, liberals aren't wicked - they are, for the most part, just a bit unsound of viewpoint but with their hearts in the right place. While I'll never agree with them, I can work with them (ie, I'll swap you an increase in HUD funding in return for more oil exploration off the Gulf Coast - that sort of thing). The left, on the other hand, is another story entirely.

They are not built upon a mistake, but upon a bald-faced lie - and only by lies and hatred is the left able to sustain itself. First and foremost, the left says there is no God - that there is no transcendent morality that human beings are absolutely required to obey at all times. This is false - this is evil; it cannot be negotiated with, it cannot be worked with. Lies and truth cannot co-exist; one or the other has to go.

This left, which starts by denying God, ends up by advocating abortion (not just considering it a sometimes sad necessity, as a good liberal might, but as a positive moral good), by advocating euthanasia, by advocating infanticide - by saying that sexual promiscuity is good, but sexual absitence is wrong - by saying that a murderer is a victim, and a victim the criminal ... this is the evil I speak of when I say "left".

What I point out here is that the wickedness of the left just shines through - they even eat their own.

"they [the left] would have everybody into slavery,"

Uh, Jerry, The liberal North freed slaves while the conservative South fought and, amazingly, died trying to protect their "right" to keep slaves. In fact, Halliburton/KBR continues to traffic slaves to this day CLICK HERE at taxpayer expense. Dude, you can't just make stuff up. Well, ok, maybe you can, but you certainly won't win hearts and minds doing so.

"The thing is the left gets angry with their own kind, when they stray from the truth!"

The left gets angry when ANYONE manipulates the public trust and strays from the truth. Don't you?

Don't get mad. God commands you to turn the other cheek, to feed me when I'm hungry and give me drink when I'm thirsty. God commands you to love me, in fact. I can feel the love now...

Mark

I detect more than a little desperation in your post. Usually when that happens, it means a person may be starting to question their long-held misguided beliefs. Could it be that you can see the error of your ways and you are now open for a change of mind?

What do you mean by liberal feel-good programs?

Signed,
Wondering in Colorado

How about social security, medicare, medicaid, and the Vererans Administration?

congressive,

"The left gets angry when ANYONE manipulates the public trust and strays from the truth. Don't you?"

If someone who knows the truth(Gods holy word) and is living by it, then I have nothing to worry about,Ok! and he sits in the white house at the present........

I know exactly what you mean congressive, and don't think I don't, because needless to say.........

You are slandering president Bush, for doing the right thing by helping the innocent people of Iraq, get from underneath the dictatorship of tyrants like saddam hussein!

Well, I will tell you right quick!, No one!, will ever tell me he's doing the wrong thing!!

The left hates, president bush because of the very fact that he's honest enough to know that he cares not only for his own but for you leftist too!! He has saved many lives of Americans by fighting this war on terror, and many MILLIONS in Iraq, yes countless people around the world!!

Many, If not MOST, on the left, make the claim that the president went into this war without a plan to get out!!

Listen, the facts will never be changed, because truth is reality, and reality is that......

The left wants no part in helping an en-slaved nation such as Iraq, and in my view, is just another excuse by the left to show their contempt for innocence and good virtue, and to show their greed, and selfishness with an iron fist!!

And yes! God does command me to turn the other cheek, but He also demands of me NOT to give in to the evil's, such as liberalism, because that is what the devil wants me to do, he wants me to sit here, and believe your(leftist) hypocrisy, just like he did in the garden of eden, with eve, of course you know what happened there?, eve believed the lies of the devil when he told her he would be wise, and he would give her the world and she would have all control of it, her and adam!!

Yes, Christians love even sinners like you, because God commands us too, He tells us to go unto the world and spread the good news!! So that the people will come to know Jesus christ!!

And I can tell you, If you need an eye-witness to what a true christian is like, George Bush is one of them, George has remained true to the lord, and buddy I can tell you, He is doing a wonderful job as mine and yours president!!

So don't ever tell me that President Bush is manipulating the truth because I will not believe such hypocrisy!!

Simply put! George Bush, is a Man of God!!

Jeremiah

This left, which starts by denying God,

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? - Matthew 27:46"

ends up by advocating abortion (not just considering it a sometimes sad necessity, as a good liberal might, but as a positive moral good)

"he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has defiled herself and been unfaithful to her husband, then when she is made to drink the water that brings a curse, it will go into her and cause bitter suffering; she will have barrenness and a miscarrying womb" - Numbers 5:27"

by advocating euthanasia, by advocating infanticide

"Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." -- 1 Samuel 15:3"

- by saying that sexual promiscuity is good, but sexual absitence is wrong

No, Mark. If sexual abstinence is your personal CHOICE, liberals will defend that choice. Just don't impose YOUR CHOICE on others.

- by saying that a murderer is a victim, and a victim the criminal

Do you mean the wedding parties blown up by US air strikes where the baby victims were, in fact, al Qaida criminals after all? Or perhaps the Iranian civlian airliner shot down back in the Reagan administration that Ronnie said "might have been on a suicide mission"? Do I need to mention Haditha as attempts to criminalize victims? Duke rape case? Suspected murderers?

... this is the evil I speak of when I say "left". - Orwellian, Mark.

Okay Darby. What problem do you have with feeling good?

Shall we toss veterans out in the street to live with those who have disabilities and can't work? Maybe a new Hooverville will grow up. We could call it Bush's Grove. Or Republican Shanytown.

I think Elmer Gantry is chaneling through Jeremiah.

Or put another way Darby, what feel bad programs would you use to replace the feel good programs?

How about social security, medicare, medicaid, and the Vererans Administration? -Darby

But Mark, your response means that your dislike of the left has to do with their nonbelief in God. That is because you assume that there is ONLY one truth - yours.

Guess what, Mark, that is CONCEIT!

Many people believe many different things. Just because someone is different does NOT mean that they are bad.

I do not necessarily believe in God, at least the Christian form of God. However, I try on a daily basis to make the world a better place for EVERYONE.

You, on the other hand, think the world is only a good place if it is filled with Christians who believe in God, and anyone who does not believe in God is evil and heartless and faithless and immoral, right?

WRONG!!! Mark, people can still be wonderful people even if they do not believe in God. If you condemn them for their thoughts, YOU are hateful and a bigot. Period.

Why don't you open up your eyes to the BIG picture, Mark, and open your heart to others WITHOUT judging them on their religious beliefs, or non-beliefs.

Christianity is NOT, I repeat NOT the only truth or the only valid way of thinking in the world. Christians scream persecution all the time, but it is YOU who are persecuting others if they do not believe in God.

obsessive, you claim that your conservative father takes things on faith while you look them up. The problem is in WHERE you look them up. I have been watching the wacko theories you keep presenting as "fact" and it's pretty obvious that when you "research" something you go to a source which will only support your preconceived notions. There is simply something in your personal makeup which drives you to seek out the emotion-based. I'm sure your father has seen this in you for all of your life, and understands the futility of trying to change your overall world view at this late date.

Robert, I started using a Capital L for Liberal when I realized that there is a division within the Democratic Party, between those who fit the old definition of liberal and the neoradical, ultra-hard-line, totally ILliberal but self-described Liberal.

When we conservatives talk about the hatred being spewed by the Left, we are talking about the neoradical far-left Left.

For some reason, those people got it into their heads that any criticism of Clinton was based on either raw blind loathing of the man as a man, or sexual prudery. I personally think that these two positions were based on an almost groupie-like adoration of the man and a voyeuristic glee at his sexual escapades. So when anyone failed to revere him as a rock-star-like god, or to get off vicariously on his licentiousness, this was like a personal attack on those who did. It became so personal, it was no longer just political differences, it had been brought home and become a critique, and then an ATTACK, on those who loved him. I really do think that those who reacted so strongly to objections to various aspects of the Clinton presidency did so because they, themselves, felt under attack---they had taken the position that Clinton's unrestrained, compulsive, sexual appetites were somehow cool and manly and what they would like to be like, so when others said they were signs of bad character, all those who had lined up in the "Gee, I Wish I Could Be Like Him" line naturally felt that they, too, had been attacked.

The manipulators at the top were so impressed by their success in diverting the attention of the devoted away from the real problems of the Clinton presidency and onto the invented claims of personal hatred and prudery, they decided to expand this approach to generating the kind of loathing for Bush that they had so successfully claimed had existed toward Clinton.

Now, I was a Democrat when Clinton was elected. I wasn't too crazy about him, but I for darned sure wasn't a conservative. So I had a good seat at the food fight. And I saw criticisms mounted against Clinton's ACTIONS spun into claims that they were really personal attacks on him, when I saw no such thing.

Now, years later, when I ask a wild-eyed Liberal why he hates Bush so much, I ALWAYS get the answer that it is only fair to hate Bush after all the hatred heaped upon Clinton. My reaction to that is that it is simply stupid---that even if Clinton HAD been personally reviled and loathed and desplsed as much as the Left claims, it is simply stupid to use that as an excuse to feel the same way about someone else. It has always struck me as juvenile and also dishonest, an effort to justify something that the person, deep down, knows is unjustifiable. They WANT to hate Bush, and look for reasons and justifications.

I do not remember attacks on Clinton such as the claims that Bush is "worse than Hitler" or a "terrorist worse that Sadaam" or a "murderer" or a "killer" or a "criminal". I do not remember even the looniest of the Right (and we have them, just as you do) ever talking about putting a bullet between Clinton's eyes. Just listen to Air America to get a taste of the rabid, rampant, LOATHING that permeates ever word they say about this man.

He is not a man who, faced with choices and decisions harder than faced by any President before him, may have made some errors. No, he is EVIL and he had done bad things ON PURPOSE, for his own EVIL ends. There is no motive assigned to any conservative but malice, spite, vengeance, and simple EVIL.

It's irrational, it's depressing, and it's delusional. If you want, I will start to note examples of simple hatred in Lefty posts.

I am tough on the neorads here, because I no longer have any faith in their motives. I do not see them as truth-seekers, but merely as evangelical haters, eager for a venue in which they can spout their venom. If you are a seeker of truth who has just so far been convinced by what you have heard from the Left, and are willing to examine other perspectives with an open mind, welcome. I was there once, I know the first step is the hardest.

This post apparently drifted off into the server error black hole several hours ago. I'll try again.

What do you mean by liberal feel-good programs?

Geez, Ash, where to start?

If your financial advisor came to you at, say, age 20 and suggested that, if you would give him 12.4% of your income for the next 47 years, he would guarantee you, on average, $900/month upon retirement with COLA's on average of 1-2% for the rest of your life, would you laugh him out of the room. I would. I'm sure most Liberals consider Social Security to be one of their most sucessful programs. Most Conservatives would consider it to be one of their (Liberals) biggest failures.

The Great Society and War on Poverty that began back in the 60's had, I'm sure, the noblest of motives. The transfer of wealth since then from the haves to the have-nots has been staggering, and yet the poor are still with us, and in almost the same exact ratio. This country will be paying, for several generations or longer, for the damage inflicted on the family, and the black family in particular, by the social welfare programs begun in the 60's. The Food Stamp Program is so "successful" they have to recruit recipients to meet their "goals". What it boils down to is that most liberal solutions to actual or perceived problems are intention-oriented, not results-oriented. I have a number of Liberal friends, and it seems like their favorite expression is "well, we tried" (and usually with someone else's money).

I'll bet that, if each Conservative who posts here comes up with 1 or 2 failed social or economic programs of which they're aware, we could make this one of the longest threads in B4B history. What say, guys and gals?

Retired Spook said
I'll bet that, if each Conservative who posts here comes up with 1 or 2 failed social or economic programs of which they're aware, we could make this one of the longest threads in B4B history.

I did 4, so I'm going to bed.

What if someone said to you we are going to spend billions of taxpayer's dollars for a war. Now the soldiers won't necessarily have all the equiptment they need.There will be plenty of war profiteers that get rich on our dollar. We don't really know why we are there. We don't really know how we will leave. It will cause a lot of the world to hate us. You'll just have to trust us that there are terrorists out there. "We've got to fight them over there so we don't have to fight them there"

Now you would laugh at that as well. But that is exactly where our difference of opinion begins.

Social security is not a pancea. It was never meant to be. But it is an aide. Frankly I never once looked at it the way you presented it. if you would give him 12.4% of your income for the next 47 years,. I never saw it as a personal investment. I saw it as a type of dues I pay to live in a civilized society. One that tries to take care of its disadvantaged. One that will supplement my income when I retire.

I'll make you a deal. Let me keep the portion of my taxes that go to the military and I will let you keep your social security taxes.

As Howie Mandel says: Deal or No Deal

but merely as evangelical haters,-Almiranta

I do not hate the sinners alms, I hate the sin. The sin? Proselytizing, forcing their morality on the nation (ergo me) I like to cuss at times and fornicate just for fun. If they want to wear polka dot boxer shorts or green suspenders, ain't no bodies business but their own. Just like my womanizing ain't nobodies business by my own.

congressive,

You need to get off whatever you're smoking man, b/c it's making you do some very weird things. You spewed a lot of trash, and it's gonna get you in a heap of trouble ONE DAY. I dunno if you are just blind or a plain out moron, but everything you had to say in that last post was really, really stupid. Take some advice, and order yourself a set of commentaries that give TRUTHFUL in-sights into the Bible.

I'm really really frustrated at everything you've done. Because you are VERY EVIL! Man it upsets me, to know that someone can be this blind to scriptures. And not only are you blind, but you are twisting it to fit the filthy lie you are trying to live.

Well let me tell you this, if you wanna live like some pig who wollers in the mud all day, then so be it, but don't drag the pure truth into your slop. And another piece of advice, STOP DRAGGING IT HERE! It's 10 times more dangerous, on a spiritual level, to spread your malicious idiocy, you filthy hypocrit.

Take the truth that people have presented on here, and try something you haven't done for a long long time. THINK ABOUT IT! Take in what the Conservatives say, and try to digest it like food. Try to derive the meaning of it, and get what it has to offer. It can't do much harm, if nothing else you'll end up just a little bit wiser on the subject at hand, whatever it may be.

I'll pray for you congressive, because you're one of the ones who really needs it.

Lucas.

Mark said:

Think I'll do a post of what is untrue - see how many liberal/left people contest me on it.

If you post all the far left untruths you'll be writing that post for weeks!

Congressive gibbered:

Or put another way Darby, what feel bad programs would you use to replace the feel good programs?

I detect black and white thinking from the "reality-based" community. The point is to get rid of wasteful programs not replace them with others. Typical leftist [non-] thinking.

Mark hit the nail on the head with this bit:

This left, which starts by denying God, ends up by advocating abortion (not just considering it a sometimes sad necessity, as a good liberal might, but as a positive moral good), by advocating euthanasia, by advocating infanticide - by saying that sexual promiscuity is good, but sexual absitence is wrong - by saying that a murderer is a victim, and a victim the criminal ... this is the evil I speak of when I say "left".

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! This is why the far left is constantly pushing the so-called "separation of church and state" meme. More correctly it should be called "elimination of church for a left-wing state."

Once you shine the light of God on the left-wing lies they shrivel up and die. This is why God must be excluded from every facet of society at all costs. This is why we must fight for free expression of religion. It's in the first amendment.

Before some lefty parrots the establishment of state religion nonsense, realize that secularism is itself a religion. The left just wants to establish their own religion enforced by the state.

Sorry about the multiple comments but this cannot stand.

Okay Darby. What problem do you have with feeling good?

Typical nonsense. The libgressive mindset is a selfish one. If it feels good do it. Feeling good does not necessarily translate to doing good. Liberals think with their feelings, conservatives use their heads.

Mark- Have you been reading Ann Coulter's "Godless the Church of Liberalism" again? You're making the same asinine generalizations about half of America again. Most people I know are liberal on some issues, moderate on others, conservative on still others. People come in all sizes, shapes and states of mind, but America welcomes them all. Our founders started this country as an experiment in tolerance. Its worked pretty well, (except for slavery, Jim Crow and extermination of the Native Americans) until now, and as long as I have breath in my body our country will resist any attempts to curtail our personal freedoms. So if you don't want to have sex-abstain. If you want to hate flag-burners -that's your right, but don't constrict the free speech of others. I don't like individual ownership of guns, but its in the Constitution-and that is our law.

Bob Arctor- The left does not want to abolish religion-we just want you to worship in church in your own way-don't impose your morals on the rest of us. And uh- there are quite a few Conservatives who don't believe in abstinence. After all wasn't the Great One, El Rushbo himself, Limpy the Blimpy, held up at the airport on the way back from Guatemala with a bottle of 'gasp' viagra? Don't think he planned on taking those little blue pills for his back pain!
Just goes to show you the right is hypocritical to the core!

congressive,

Nice try - but I'm not that ignorant of scripture...

kritter,

Once again, is the word "liberal" in my post?

Do you guys even read what I write? Or do you just have a "contest Mark" random word generator?

But Mark, your response means that your dislike of the left has to do with their nonbelief in God. That is because you assume that there is ONLY one truth - yours.

Guess what, Mark, that is CONCEIT!

Many people believe many different things. Just because someone is different does NOT mean that they are bad.

I do not necessarily believe in God, at least the Christian form of God. However, I try on a daily basis to make the world a better place for EVERYONE.

You, on the other hand, think the world is only a good place if it is filled with Christians who believe in God, and anyone who does not believe in God is evil and heartless and faithless and immoral, right?

WRONG!!! Mark, people can still be wonderful people even if they do not believe in God. If you condemn them for their thoughts, YOU are hateful and a bigot. Period.

Why don't you open up your eyes to the BIG picture, Mark, and open your heart to others WITHOUT judging them on their religious beliefs, or non-beliefs.

Christianity is NOT, I repeat NOT the only truth or the only valid way of thinking in the world. Christians scream persecution all the time, but it is YOU who are persecuting others if they do not believe in God.

Posted by: Mark at July

It can't be randomness, Mark. Even a random number generator is not that obtuse.

Lucas, pray for me, then show me where I'm wrong. When I pray God tells me there is nothing more despicable in His eyes than holy hypocracy couched in "the will of God" egomaniacal narcissism. Oh, and to pray for you, too.

Bob, wrong gibberish. Wasn't me.

Almi, first it is really disappointing that YOU of all posters would stoop to "obsessive". I've intentionally avoided "Im-a-ranter" to be civil. Am I wasting my restraint?

Oh, and you are rewriting Clinton history. Did you see "Bowling for Columbine"? Probably not, but I'll give you a quick recap: Clinton was TRASHED over bombing poor people and aspirin factories by the uber-liberal Michael Moore. Rent it if you dare. I won't hold my breath.

You average liberal felt nothing but horrified disappointment that such a powerful man could have such regrettable personal failings. But real history doesn't dovetail with righty propaganda.

You have completely trashed virtually every progressive who posts here without addressing even one single issue with anything other than alluding to tales of liberal woes. That's your prerogative. But you're not sourcing anything. You question my sources, which is good, but you provide no reciprocal favor. Stick with source material, i.e. he said/she said/they said Joe Wilson lied doesn't pan. Link to the Op-Ed piece to read the actual words. Link to the Senate Intelligence Committee report. Link to the Bible. Editorials by definition are worthless propaganda, left or right.

Or just spew. It's your prerogative. Please, do not ask me to start to note examples of simple hatred in Righty posts. There's a server overload here as it is.

Oh, and thanks for the heartfelt sympathy for my poor poor father who has surrendered all hope of his progeny ever climbing out of the gutter. I'll pass it along. He'll be thrilled. I'll source it to your post.

The sidewalk approaches...

Mark writes "Nice try - but I'm not that ignorant of scripture..."

Ah, so it isn't ignorance, it intentional disregard of Biblical teachings. Is that better? You attribute all that bad stuff to godless liberals, when in fact it's all condoned by the Almighty Himself in the Good Book, much to leftist's dismay. We won't even get into Lot and his disgusting incestuous thing.... ugh!

Oh, and if you want the RNC to take note of your communication skills, you should probably mix a few less metaphors. Just trying to help. Hey, they tap bloggers all the time to fill communications spots for the feds. Skol!

Almiranta-not all liberals dislike Bush because of the right's hatred of Clinton. Many just think he's not up to the job, and that the Bush Doctrine of preemption has been an abject failure. His environmental record is just about nonexistent, and he has advanced divisive causes to appease his base- the flag-burning amendment, the gay marriage ban, certain sections of the Patriot Act, resolutions attacking the press. His response to Katrina was abysmal-and there has been almost no accountability for any failures in his administration. If there was, Rumsfeld would have been gone a long time ago. Some feel he's used 9/11 to engender fear to gain political support. He's a controversial figure whose domestic policies blatantly favor his base at the expense of the working classes. So its his policy that drives his polls so low, not the right's distaste for Bill Clinton, who left office with approval numbers in the 60's.

Mark- forgive me for my many shortcomings. YOU ARE RIGHT. I substituted liberal for left. But my point is the same-people are usually a mix of beliefs and ideologies that may not even be consistent.

It might surprise you to know that I am liberal on some issues and conservative on others. But I'm not here to make everyone else believe exactly as I do, but to try to understand other points of view. You see, I have this misbegotten concept that we need to put aside our minor differences and find common ground, as we face a common enemy. "A house divided unto itself cannot stand." With every election cycle we become more polarized. Why? I think the Republican leadership is less tolerant and wants to push family values down everyone's throats, and while I'm a big believer in family values for my family, one size does not fit all.

Just as democracy won't work where you don't have men who think the way our founders did-or writers like John Locke who led the enlightenment.

Okay so maybe the left believes if it feels good do it-but that sounds like leftover rhetoric from the hippies of the 60's more than what the left is about today. Both left and right have their unacceptable extremes- on the extreme right you have -if it feels good I'll make sure you're not allowed to do it! See? Self-righteous and even more hateful! Don't buy it? Look at the internet gambling ban that the Republicans pushed through the house-if it were up to them I wouldn't be able to gamble or burn my flag!

Doncha just love the way a thread on the inherent weaknesses of the Left spins into a death spiral of lefties proving the point?

The wild-eyed conspiracy-minded hate-filled neorad left is taking over the Democratic Party, as shown by the vicious attacks on Democrats who simply try to stay at least a little on the sane side of the line. But that's not acceptable to the slavering moonbats, who for the first time in their pathetic little lives have had a taste of what they think is victory and want more, more, more.

What you barkers don't get is that you do NOT represent the body of the Democratic Party. You are so loony, you are creeping out the very moderates you will need to get anywhere. Your weeding out of anyone who is not far far far left, and vicious and nuts to boot, is merely proof of the coming split in the party.

The question is, will the Dems split into two parties, or will the moderates, once the retaining wall of Bush Hatred is removed, spill over into a moderate conservatism? For those who really do concentrate on the ISSUES, and who do care about FACTS, there is very little difference in policy and platform between the Republican Party and moderate Dems. And I have a feeling that you pit bulls of the Neorad Left are going to be left out in the cold, howling at the moon, when it turns out that you are just too distasteful for Dems as well as Republicans.

Because, you see, your insanity is just plain creepy.

obsessive, if you really want to help, try learning a little grammar. You say:
"...mix a few less metaphors..."

Uh, 'less' is for volume, 'few' is for number. Can't average it out by using both. That would be 'fewer metaphors'.

Wouldn't have mentioned it if you hadn't climbed up on a high horse you don't know how to ride....