An excellent point made by Barry Rubin:
HERE ARE the basic points for understanding Palestinian politics:
There are hardly any moderate Palestinians in public life and even those few generally keep their mouths shut, or echo the militant majority. With few exceptions - countable on your fingers - a Palestinian moderate in practice can usually be defined as someone who apologizes for terrorism in good English. The mantra of "helping the moderates" cannot work under these conditions.
Fatah and PLO strategy rests on the belief that defeat is staved off as long as you keep fighting. Their only true victory is to continue the struggle. Of course, the cost of this is not only violence, suffering and disruption, but also a failure to achieve anything material.
Depressing, to be sure - but Rubin seems to be correct. I had hoped that after Hamas forced out the hopelessly corrupt Fatah government that they'd setle down and start to govern. This was a bit of wishful thinking on my part - probably because too ingrained in me is my grandfather's dictum: better to have 10% of something than 100% of nothing. The Palestinians seem to prefer 100% of nothing.
Short term, Israel has to secure herself - push them back, build the walls, and just let the Palestinians stew in their own juices while Israel gets on with life. Long term, it will take a fundamental shift in Arab/Moslem attitudes for peace and prosperity to come to Palestine. That shift is ongoing, and has been midwifed by the United States in Iraq and Afghanistan - but it is a long way from Baghdad to Ramallah. As long as Syria and Iran are around to continue to fund Palestinian terror groups, there will be no improvement in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict.
It is a pitiful spectacle, and I pray for the poor, long suffering Palestnian people - bamboozled by junior-leage tyrants in to supporting a campaign of murder and mayhem, while Palestinians can't get jobs, and raw sewage runs through the streets for lack of men and funds to clean it up.
Posted by Mark Noonan at July 10, 2006 09:35 AM
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Comments
it's much worse, mark, for the palestinian people than the msm & lefties can bring themselves to admit.
the "leadership" has profiteered by intentionally keeping it's own people bottled-up in UN ghettos for decades. this utter corruption is exemplified by the rejection of oslo wherein they would have had their state.
Posted by: OhioOrrin at July 10, 2006 11:08 AM
There isn't a very good way to win overthere. Every military victory is a PR defeat because of the tireless Palestinian Propaganda Machine.
It is sick, and the worst part is that there isn't much we can do except help Israel stay off savage attacks.
Posted by: Georgia Frawg at July 10, 2006 11:13 AM
It is time maybe to think about nuking Palsetine. Haven't the mullahs there given us ample reason to consider this course of action.
Posted by:
Leonidas at July 10, 2006 12:06 PM
If a "military victory" keeps a busload of school children from being slaughtered - then it is a victory. The "PR" loss is what? Would it be better to allow your families to be killed?
The "militia" environment there makes everything deniable. With Hamas running the major and most aggressive militia AND the government that veil is pierced. An attack by Hamas is an attack by the government. THAT is an act of war. Deniability is gone and the hostility is in the open. So..... the quite proper Israeli response.
Posted by: Kahn at July 10, 2006 12:29 PM
Mark,
I understand the hope you had when Hamas won. Since a political party in Palestine seems to always have a militia, it would be unlikely however. Hamas survives by doing two things, giving help to the poor, and promising to remove the percieved bad guys (Isreal). Real help would be to help the poor establish businesses that could stay open, with no fear of bombings, raids or other activities of terror.
Posted by: kjstrouble at July 10, 2006 02:57 PM
Leonidas, I trust your not serious. To nuke Palestine would be like nuking the Bronx, it would affect the adjacent borrows of New York too, their that close over there. If you nuked Ramala (sp?) you’d be nuking Jerusalem too.
Posted by: Keep to the Right at July 10, 2006 03:16 PM
The most peaceful and quickist way to solve the Isreal/Palestine issue is to immediately reestablish full diplomatic relations with Iran. That will also resolve the situation in Iraq. But, you Zionist-neo-con warmongers really don't want Peace do you? Peace
Posted by: steve at July 10, 2006 05:41 PM
Editorial Cartoon: "Palestinian Body Armor"
Cox & Forkum website (second entry): "Totally ignored by the U.N. and the article is how Palestinian terrorists use fellow Palestinians as human shields and how Palestinian culture teaches children to put themselves in harms way.
This Reuters report provides some light":
Reuters: A dozen small boys, not yet teenagers, were among relatives gathered at a funeral in Gaza on Friday for a young man killed in clashes between Palestinian militants and Israeli troops.
Asked if they would learn from the death of 19-year-old Mohammed Maher Shahine, killed while watching Thursday's fighting as Israel stepped up an offensive in the strip, the boys answered almost with one voice.
"No. We want to be martyrs too," they said, seemingly oblivious to the danger of following around bands of gunmen as they battle more powerful Israeli troops, who are backed by tanks and helicopters.
Posted by: Freedom1 at July 10, 2006 06:31 PM
Your poor long suffering Palestinian people voted a terrorist organization into leadership and now according to the latest poll, 77% of them favor this kidnapping of the Israeli soldier.
You cannot reason with crazy people and the idea that Israel can just go about its business after building a wall, is IMO ludicrous.
There really is only one solution for getting rid of terrorists. You kill them before they kill you. And unfortunately, it seems that the entire populace of Palestine falls within this category. I'll leave it to the rest of you to determine what should be done with terrorists.
Posted by: Art Patscheck at July 11, 2006 01:48 PM
Your poor long suffering Palestinian people voted a terrorist organization into leadership and now according to the latest poll, 77% of them favor this kidnapping of the Israeli soldier.
You cannot reason with crazy people and the idea that Israel can just go about its business after building a wall, is IMO ludicrous.
There really is only one solution for getting rid of terrorists. You kill them before they kill you. And unfortunately, it seems that the entire populace of Palestine falls within this category. I'll leave it to the rest of you to determine what should be done with terrorists.
Posted by: Art Patscheck at July 11, 2006 01:49 PM
At least 77% of the populace are terrorists anyway.
Posted by: Art Patscheck at July 11, 2006 01:50 PM
Art,
I vote to send you in with an M-16, and take care of all them 'damned-dirty terrorists' yourself, send a postcard!
Posted by: Third Eye Open at July 11, 2006 03:30 PM
Post a comment
it's much worse, mark, for the palestinian people than the msm & lefties can bring themselves to admit.
the "leadership" has profiteered by intentionally keeping it's own people bottled-up in UN ghettos for decades. this utter corruption is exemplified by the rejection of oslo wherein they would have had their state.
There isn't a very good way to win overthere. Every military victory is a PR defeat because of the tireless Palestinian Propaganda Machine.
It is sick, and the worst part is that there isn't much we can do except help Israel stay off savage attacks.
It is time maybe to think about nuking Palsetine. Haven't the mullahs there given us ample reason to consider this course of action.
If a "military victory" keeps a busload of school children from being slaughtered - then it is a victory. The "PR" loss is what? Would it be better to allow your families to be killed?
The "militia" environment there makes everything deniable. With Hamas running the major and most aggressive militia AND the government that veil is pierced. An attack by Hamas is an attack by the government. THAT is an act of war. Deniability is gone and the hostility is in the open. So..... the quite proper Israeli response.
Mark,
I understand the hope you had when Hamas won. Since a political party in Palestine seems to always have a militia, it would be unlikely however. Hamas survives by doing two things, giving help to the poor, and promising to remove the percieved bad guys (Isreal). Real help would be to help the poor establish businesses that could stay open, with no fear of bombings, raids or other activities of terror.
Leonidas, I trust your not serious. To nuke Palestine would be like nuking the Bronx, it would affect the adjacent borrows of New York too, their that close over there. If you nuked Ramala (sp?) you’d be nuking Jerusalem too.
The most peaceful and quickist way to solve the Isreal/Palestine issue is to immediately reestablish full diplomatic relations with Iran. That will also resolve the situation in Iraq. But, you Zionist-neo-con warmongers really don't want Peace do you? Peace
Editorial Cartoon: "Palestinian Body Armor"
Cox & Forkum website (second entry): "Totally ignored by the U.N. and the article is how Palestinian terrorists use fellow Palestinians as human shields and how Palestinian culture teaches children to put themselves in harms way.
This Reuters report provides some light":
Reuters: A dozen small boys, not yet teenagers, were among relatives gathered at a funeral in Gaza on Friday for a young man killed in clashes between Palestinian militants and Israeli troops.
Asked if they would learn from the death of 19-year-old Mohammed Maher Shahine, killed while watching Thursday's fighting as Israel stepped up an offensive in the strip, the boys answered almost with one voice.
"No. We want to be martyrs too," they said, seemingly oblivious to the danger of following around bands of gunmen as they battle more powerful Israeli troops, who are backed by tanks and helicopters.
Your poor long suffering Palestinian people voted a terrorist organization into leadership and now according to the latest poll, 77% of them favor this kidnapping of the Israeli soldier.
You cannot reason with crazy people and the idea that Israel can just go about its business after building a wall, is IMO ludicrous.
There really is only one solution for getting rid of terrorists. You kill them before they kill you. And unfortunately, it seems that the entire populace of Palestine falls within this category. I'll leave it to the rest of you to determine what should be done with terrorists.
Your poor long suffering Palestinian people voted a terrorist organization into leadership and now according to the latest poll, 77% of them favor this kidnapping of the Israeli soldier.
You cannot reason with crazy people and the idea that Israel can just go about its business after building a wall, is IMO ludicrous.
There really is only one solution for getting rid of terrorists. You kill them before they kill you. And unfortunately, it seems that the entire populace of Palestine falls within this category. I'll leave it to the rest of you to determine what should be done with terrorists.
At least 77% of the populace are terrorists anyway.
Art,
I vote to send you in with an M-16, and take care of all them 'damned-dirty terrorists' yourself, send a postcard!