my family suffered dead & maimed fighting on the federal side.
and, we were sponsers in the underground railroad here in ohio providing food, housing, & transport.
mark us as "PAID IN BLOOD,SWEAT,&TEARS" please.
Posted by: OhioOrrin at July 10, 2006 07:22 AM
My great grandparents came to the US in the late 1890s. They never owned slaves, had no contact with slaveowners, and being in upper Minnesota, had very little contact with other races. Why should I or any other member of my family be penalized for the actions of a few?
What about those of mixed race? Are Halle Berry or Barak Obama less 'black' because they had one white parent; and why should we pay reparations to them, since they are far better off than those whose taxes would pay for those 'reparations'?
This is just another way to grab taxpeyer dollars for lawyers, politicians, and other con men from the US Treasury.
Posted by: Hermie at July 10, 2006 08:25 AM
I believe the 600,000 dead American soldiers was reparations enough.
Posted by:
CJ at July 10, 2006 09:41 AM
I am like Hermie. I too am from Minnesota. My grandparents from both my mother’s and father’s side immigrated to the United States around or sometime after Hermies grandparents. They too had no contact with slave owners and more than likely had no idea about this Jim Crow law evil. I am guessing that they too had little to no contact with other races, and probably not buy choice but buy circumstances. Why should I or any of my family pay for the sins of others who are not family and who died long ago?
Hermie brings out a paradox, do those of mixed race pay themselves reparations?
The time is long past, it’s too late for this reparations talk! The statute of limitations, so to speak, expired a long long time ago. To institute this now would be to punish the innocent and the uninvolved!
I think this reparations crap is to accomplish two things, make political points with blacks, and assuage false guilt feelings in the liberal. My opinion of course. I would not fault the black person for accepting the reparations, because it appeals to greed in human nature, so much as I would fault the liberal who is offering it to them. It’s a deceptive con on the part of these liberals who are advocating this reparations crap.
Posted by: Keep to the Right at July 10, 2006 10:04 AM
How will they ensure that some receiving the reparations are not also descendants of those who also owned slaves?
Posted by:
Lew Waters at July 10, 2006 10:05 AM
I am fully supportive of giving former slaves reparations... but if you were never a slave... shut up. So, unless you are around 170 years old... shut up about being reimbursed for slavery.
Posted by: Georgia Frawg at July 10, 2006 11:00 AM
I would love to hear one of our leftist friends defend the reparations side of the argument. Frankly I don't understand it.
As a side note, those in favor of reparations frequently cite the reparations given to Japanese American internees during WWII, who had their property confiscated. What is never mentioned is that some Italian Americans and German Americans also had their property confiscated and were interned during WWII, but for some reason they never were even considered for reparations much less given any.
Was it because they were white europeans? Sounds like racial and ethnic discrimination to me.
BTW: My mother's parents immigrated LEGALLY in 1890 and my father immigrated LEGALLY in 1928. So no, I don't think I owe reparations to anyone. But I would like a tax rebate on the 4 Trilllion dollars in transfer payments made to black over the past 50 years.
Posted by: phnxbmed at July 10, 2006 11:47 AM
reparations are another attempt by the left to control both whites and blacks. As a white person, I am to feel guilty because of something that happened over 100 years ago, and to which my family from Rochester (via Italy) had no part. Blacks are given one more reason to be in the pocket of the left because of one more give-away. I am all for remembering the past, because those that forget are doomed to repeat it, however, it is time to move forward, and treat all persons in america as equals, not by race.
Posted by: arcman at July 10, 2006 12:01 PM
I mean "if you weren't..."
oops...
Posted by: Georgia Frawg at July 10, 2006 12:23 PM
What you have is an attempt to keep up the barriers between races, by a group of people who intend to ride this continuing hatred as long and as profitably as possible.
You will see an increase in the numbers of lawyers and others who will provide 'services' as 'reparations facilitators' (for a hefty percentage of course). You already have con artists fooling black taxpayers into trying to deduct 'slave reparations' credits. What this will do is to institutionalize these crooks; giving them a chance to grab government funds to support their lifestyles.
Of course, this will also call for 'class-action lawsuits','bureaucracies', 'commissions' and 'blue ribbon panels' all with the purpose of keeping themselves flush with taxpayer cash for 'salaries, expenses, and costs', while maintaining conflict between black, white, and all other races.
Posted by: Hermie at July 10, 2006 01:26 PM
I guess I agree here. How far back should we go?
On the other hand my son was able to get some financial aid to attend college since he is 1/8 th Native American.
I didn't turn it down.
Posted by:
Ash at July 10, 2006 01:27 PM
Just out of curiosity... supposing the reparations advocates were to get what they wanted, how much would each eligible black person receive?
And what happens once they receive it? My guess is that it is not the successful black person that is screaming about what they're "owed". It is those who can't (for instance, some young thing that got pregnant, whose man won't support her, and who insists on keeping the child so that her only options are welfare and/or working way too much for way too little to just barely get by and never ever get ahead) or those who won't (in some areas, it's looked down upon to be successful at all... if you do well in school, you're playing the white man's game or some such nonsense).
So what happens when these people receive the reparations money? I can see the possibility of some of those from the can't category using that money to really make a difference, but I'd betcha that those from the won't category would just buy some bling and/or fancy spinning wheels for their cars, and would end up back at square one... no real improvement in their situation at all. In the end, all we'd ever hear about is that it wasn't enough, give us more.
And what about their children? How would it be "fair" if the next generation didn't get it, or there was any cutoff at all?
No... what's really needed is for the black community to adopt the type of attitudes that previously downtrodden groups have. In the past, many many groups have lived under horridly bigotted conditions... Irishmen, Chinese, early Mormons... and you just don't see the kind of problems these days with those groups, because they worked hard and focused on the future (despite all the difficulties they encountered), rather than whining about their ancestors' treatment in the past. You just don't get ahead by holding grudges.
Posted by: LNC at July 10, 2006 01:59 PM
Several years ago I found my paternal grandfather's family. I found out that while I was raised in the Mid-West, this part of my family was from the South. I know I am not responsible for slavery, and have no guilt that ancestors of mine participated in it. They are dead, some on battlefields, some murdered in Texas, and some of natural causes, but all have passed on. Any blame or guilt has been handled by a higher power, God, and I have nothing on that score to atone for. Neither do their children, or childrens' children, save any actions they took in their lifetime.
Assigning guilt from generation to generation is like passing on debt from generation to generation. It only makes the next generation poorer and more angry.
Posted by: kjstrouble at July 10, 2006 03:37 PM
More idiotic lunacy from the looney liberal left!
Why is it that the liberal left feels some need to apologize for everything?
Perhaps that's not the reason. Perhaps the left doesn't want Blacks and minorities to ever feel and be equal. Perhaps the liberal left does not want Blacks to stop living in the past and work toward a better future. Perhaps the liberal left does not want to let the past die in order that they can claim to be the party of Blacks and minorities and "fight for the rights" of those who are long dead... and of course for their descendants! Perhaps the liberal Democrats want to "milk" the issue for their "hate" campaign as long as possible.
Who are today's racists... the liberals. Liberals are the ones who make a race issue of any and everything they can. It's racial profiling (unless of course it's an Arab who wants to invest in our ports!). It's racist. It's bigotry. Hurricanes only affect minorities, etc.
How about the Europeans like Portugal and others who lived off the slave trade business? How about the other Africans who rounded up the Blacks and turned them over to the slave traders? Shouldn't they pay reparations too?
If liberals want to apologize and pay reparations for past inequities, why stop with the descendents of Black slaves? How about all of those indentured servants who came from Europe -- most of whom were essentially slaves? How about the young children who worked 14 hour days for practically nothing in the factories? How about the men and women who worked long days in the factories and during the depression for practically nothing? How about the children and their parents who worked from dawn to dusk on the farms feed Americans, barely earning a living?
Why stop with these? Let's go back through history and make countries pay reparations for the actions of their dead ancestors. What about those Roman slaves and their descendants? What about the descendents of those who worked as serfs during the Middle Ages?
Why don't we have everyone check their family tree and pay reparations to any whose long dead relatives have suffered some type of inequity during recorded history? At the same time, let's identify those whose ancestors supported or contributed to some of those inequities. We may even find that most people have ancestors in both categories. We can then simplify the whole process and have each person apologize to and pay reparations to himself or herself!!!
How many people today have not had the same opportunities as others who were more fortunate? How many have not had the opportunity to make millions and billions of dollars like Bill Gates, sports superstars, movie stars, and others? Aren't they do a "cut"?
While we are discussing reparations and apologies, let's check on the lives of those Blacks who did not make it to America. Let's see how well off they are today!
And these many years of quotas and preferential treatments? What are those?
America has paid it's debt for the actions of our long dead relatives. It's time liberals get over it, and move on with THEIR LIVES.
NO REPARATIONS... NO APOLOGIZES!!!
AAR
Posted by: AAR at July 10, 2006 06:07 PM
Mark,
Like Islamofascism, Reparations is another medieval concept reintroduced in the post-modern dialogue. Reparations is in essence "blood debt", the concept from the Dark Ages whereby debts could be inherited and passed from father to son. In the Dark Ages the blood debt was used to keep serfs enslaved and working generation after generation to "pay back" their exploiters. How curious it is such a vile, despicable concept would be re-introduced as acceptable today. I guess that's more moral equivalency from Multiculturalism.
Posted by: David/California at July 10, 2006 07:00 PM
Since the South was predominantly Democrat during the Slavery era and up until recent times, I propse they approve the reparations and payments be made by a tax surcharge of whatever is mandated be placed on all registered Democrats and anyone voting Democrat.
Even the Civil Rights era, it was Southern Democrats opposing the Civil Rights while nearly all Republicans supported it.
They think reparations are needed, then let them pay them. It was their party supporting Slavery, not Republicans.
What! You mean they wouldn't like that?
Imagine that.
Posted by:
Lew Waters at July 10, 2006 11:16 PM
My grandfather came from Hungary in 1897; so as the article suggests, who do I owe reparations to? Now my wife's side is a bit more interesting and complicated -- her family was in the Jamestown settlement in 1620, and at one point owned about 1/3 of the state of Maryland. They owned slaves -- but in the 1840's (far earlier than most) set them free, taught them to read and right and gave them a bit of land to work. When does my get her check for advancing the plight of those ex-slaves?
Posted by: Wamphyr at July 11, 2006 02:48 AM
Paying reparations now makes about as much sense as charging descendants of slaves for their passage to the new world.
How much sense is that? None.
But by all means libfools, scream about this issue as loud as you can so right thinking Americans know where you stand. I can't hear you! Scream louder!
Idiots.
Posted by: Bob Arctor at July 12, 2006 03:21 AM
my family suffered dead & maimed fighting on the federal side.
and, we were sponsers in the underground railroad here in ohio providing food, housing, & transport.
mark us as "PAID IN BLOOD,SWEAT,&TEARS" please.
My great grandparents came to the US in the late 1890s. They never owned slaves, had no contact with slaveowners, and being in upper Minnesota, had very little contact with other races. Why should I or any other member of my family be penalized for the actions of a few?
What about those of mixed race? Are Halle Berry or Barak Obama less 'black' because they had one white parent; and why should we pay reparations to them, since they are far better off than those whose taxes would pay for those 'reparations'?
This is just another way to grab taxpeyer dollars for lawyers, politicians, and other con men from the US Treasury.
I believe the 600,000 dead American soldiers was reparations enough.
I am like Hermie. I too am from Minnesota. My grandparents from both my mother’s and father’s side immigrated to the United States around or sometime after Hermies grandparents. They too had no contact with slave owners and more than likely had no idea about this Jim Crow law evil. I am guessing that they too had little to no contact with other races, and probably not buy choice but buy circumstances. Why should I or any of my family pay for the sins of others who are not family and who died long ago?
Hermie brings out a paradox, do those of mixed race pay themselves reparations?
The time is long past, it’s too late for this reparations talk! The statute of limitations, so to speak, expired a long long time ago. To institute this now would be to punish the innocent and the uninvolved!
I think this reparations crap is to accomplish two things, make political points with blacks, and assuage false guilt feelings in the liberal. My opinion of course. I would not fault the black person for accepting the reparations, because it appeals to greed in human nature, so much as I would fault the liberal who is offering it to them. It’s a deceptive con on the part of these liberals who are advocating this reparations crap.
How will they ensure that some receiving the reparations are not also descendants of those who also owned slaves?
I am fully supportive of giving former slaves reparations... but if you were never a slave... shut up. So, unless you are around 170 years old... shut up about being reimbursed for slavery.
I would love to hear one of our leftist friends defend the reparations side of the argument. Frankly I don't understand it.
As a side note, those in favor of reparations frequently cite the reparations given to Japanese American internees during WWII, who had their property confiscated. What is never mentioned is that some Italian Americans and German Americans also had their property confiscated and were interned during WWII, but for some reason they never were even considered for reparations much less given any.
Was it because they were white europeans? Sounds like racial and ethnic discrimination to me.
BTW: My mother's parents immigrated LEGALLY in 1890 and my father immigrated LEGALLY in 1928. So no, I don't think I owe reparations to anyone. But I would like a tax rebate on the 4 Trilllion dollars in transfer payments made to black over the past 50 years.
reparations are another attempt by the left to control both whites and blacks. As a white person, I am to feel guilty because of something that happened over 100 years ago, and to which my family from Rochester (via Italy) had no part. Blacks are given one more reason to be in the pocket of the left because of one more give-away. I am all for remembering the past, because those that forget are doomed to repeat it, however, it is time to move forward, and treat all persons in america as equals, not by race.
I mean "if you weren't..."
oops...
What you have is an attempt to keep up the barriers between races, by a group of people who intend to ride this continuing hatred as long and as profitably as possible.
You will see an increase in the numbers of lawyers and others who will provide 'services' as 'reparations facilitators' (for a hefty percentage of course). You already have con artists fooling black taxpayers into trying to deduct 'slave reparations' credits. What this will do is to institutionalize these crooks; giving them a chance to grab government funds to support their lifestyles.
Of course, this will also call for 'class-action lawsuits','bureaucracies', 'commissions' and 'blue ribbon panels' all with the purpose of keeping themselves flush with taxpayer cash for 'salaries, expenses, and costs', while maintaining conflict between black, white, and all other races.
I guess I agree here. How far back should we go?
On the other hand my son was able to get some financial aid to attend college since he is 1/8 th Native American.
I didn't turn it down.
Just out of curiosity... supposing the reparations advocates were to get what they wanted, how much would each eligible black person receive?
And what happens once they receive it? My guess is that it is not the successful black person that is screaming about what they're "owed". It is those who can't (for instance, some young thing that got pregnant, whose man won't support her, and who insists on keeping the child so that her only options are welfare and/or working way too much for way too little to just barely get by and never ever get ahead) or those who won't (in some areas, it's looked down upon to be successful at all... if you do well in school, you're playing the white man's game or some such nonsense).
So what happens when these people receive the reparations money? I can see the possibility of some of those from the can't category using that money to really make a difference, but I'd betcha that those from the won't category would just buy some bling and/or fancy spinning wheels for their cars, and would end up back at square one... no real improvement in their situation at all. In the end, all we'd ever hear about is that it wasn't enough, give us more.
And what about their children? How would it be "fair" if the next generation didn't get it, or there was any cutoff at all?
No... what's really needed is for the black community to adopt the type of attitudes that previously downtrodden groups have. In the past, many many groups have lived under horridly bigotted conditions... Irishmen, Chinese, early Mormons... and you just don't see the kind of problems these days with those groups, because they worked hard and focused on the future (despite all the difficulties they encountered), rather than whining about their ancestors' treatment in the past. You just don't get ahead by holding grudges.
Several years ago I found my paternal grandfather's family. I found out that while I was raised in the Mid-West, this part of my family was from the South. I know I am not responsible for slavery, and have no guilt that ancestors of mine participated in it. They are dead, some on battlefields, some murdered in Texas, and some of natural causes, but all have passed on. Any blame or guilt has been handled by a higher power, God, and I have nothing on that score to atone for. Neither do their children, or childrens' children, save any actions they took in their lifetime.
Assigning guilt from generation to generation is like passing on debt from generation to generation. It only makes the next generation poorer and more angry.
More idiotic lunacy from the looney liberal left!
Why is it that the liberal left feels some need to apologize for everything?
Perhaps that's not the reason. Perhaps the left doesn't want Blacks and minorities to ever feel and be equal. Perhaps the liberal left does not want Blacks to stop living in the past and work toward a better future. Perhaps the liberal left does not want to let the past die in order that they can claim to be the party of Blacks and minorities and "fight for the rights" of those who are long dead... and of course for their descendants! Perhaps the liberal Democrats want to "milk" the issue for their "hate" campaign as long as possible.
Who are today's racists... the liberals. Liberals are the ones who make a race issue of any and everything they can. It's racial profiling (unless of course it's an Arab who wants to invest in our ports!). It's racist. It's bigotry. Hurricanes only affect minorities, etc.
How about the Europeans like Portugal and others who lived off the slave trade business? How about the other Africans who rounded up the Blacks and turned them over to the slave traders? Shouldn't they pay reparations too?
If liberals want to apologize and pay reparations for past inequities, why stop with the descendents of Black slaves? How about all of those indentured servants who came from Europe -- most of whom were essentially slaves? How about the young children who worked 14 hour days for practically nothing in the factories? How about the men and women who worked long days in the factories and during the depression for practically nothing? How about the children and their parents who worked from dawn to dusk on the farms feed Americans, barely earning a living?
Why stop with these? Let's go back through history and make countries pay reparations for the actions of their dead ancestors. What about those Roman slaves and their descendants? What about the descendents of those who worked as serfs during the Middle Ages?
Why don't we have everyone check their family tree and pay reparations to any whose long dead relatives have suffered some type of inequity during recorded history? At the same time, let's identify those whose ancestors supported or contributed to some of those inequities. We may even find that most people have ancestors in both categories. We can then simplify the whole process and have each person apologize to and pay reparations to himself or herself!!!
How many people today have not had the same opportunities as others who were more fortunate? How many have not had the opportunity to make millions and billions of dollars like Bill Gates, sports superstars, movie stars, and others? Aren't they do a "cut"?
While we are discussing reparations and apologies, let's check on the lives of those Blacks who did not make it to America. Let's see how well off they are today!
And these many years of quotas and preferential treatments? What are those?
America has paid it's debt for the actions of our long dead relatives. It's time liberals get over it, and move on with THEIR LIVES.
NO REPARATIONS... NO APOLOGIZES!!!
AAR
Mark,
Like Islamofascism, Reparations is another medieval concept reintroduced in the post-modern dialogue. Reparations is in essence "blood debt", the concept from the Dark Ages whereby debts could be inherited and passed from father to son. In the Dark Ages the blood debt was used to keep serfs enslaved and working generation after generation to "pay back" their exploiters. How curious it is such a vile, despicable concept would be re-introduced as acceptable today. I guess that's more moral equivalency from Multiculturalism.
Since the South was predominantly Democrat during the Slavery era and up until recent times, I propse they approve the reparations and payments be made by a tax surcharge of whatever is mandated be placed on all registered Democrats and anyone voting Democrat.
Even the Civil Rights era, it was Southern Democrats opposing the Civil Rights while nearly all Republicans supported it.
They think reparations are needed, then let them pay them. It was their party supporting Slavery, not Republicans.
What! You mean they wouldn't like that?
Imagine that.
My grandfather came from Hungary in 1897; so as the article suggests, who do I owe reparations to? Now my wife's side is a bit more interesting and complicated -- her family was in the Jamestown settlement in 1620, and at one point owned about 1/3 of the state of Maryland. They owned slaves -- but in the 1840's (far earlier than most) set them free, taught them to read and right and gave them a bit of land to work. When does my get her check for advancing the plight of those ex-slaves?
Paying reparations now makes about as much sense as charging descendants of slaves for their passage to the new world.
How much sense is that? None.
But by all means libfools, scream about this issue as loud as you can so right thinking Americans know where you stand. I can't hear you! Scream louder!
Idiots.