Warriornation, Freedom1, Jeremiah, and AAR:

I haveit on authority that all of you are the same spoofer--Richard23, from another blog that was recently revealed as a spoof blog.

Trust but verify is my motto; well, it came from the greatest president of the 20th Century, but I'll adopt it as my motto.

Since there's no way you "four" can prove otherwise, I'll have to believe what I've been told. Also, all the moron moonbat posters here are probably spoofs too, so I suggest that any actual rightwingers who post here ignore these four, and ignore Baloney, assis, Ashley, CO, TL, threemorequeers, mf53, Leftorium, and any others whom you suspect are fakes. These guys are most probably Richard23 also.

Mark, your blog is infested with spoofers...

As if Ted Chappaquidick Kennedy and John 'just a gigolo' Kerry aren't enoughThe left continues to depend on the limousine liberal elites to lead them:

"Lamont is the great-grandson of former J.P. Morgan & Co. Chairman Thomas W. Lamont, and has an inherited net worth estimated between $90 million and $300 million."

Somehow this 'inheritted' wealth is palatable to the left, while they are adamantly opposed to wealth which is earned, as well as those who earn it, Rock & movie stars excepted.

The Kos Kids have ostensibly raised "hundreds of thousands of dollars" for Lamont, thinking that he will owe them and they will 'own' him. That is laughable. These dupes are deluding themselves into thinking they are in control.

Possibly. But right did the childish hate gig first, with Clinton, so at best the left is just sinking down to your level.

keefer

Who does that leave?
and
Why omit the obvious?

What I find the most interesting about the vitriol aimed at Lieberman by the left side of his own party is that his Senate voting record is far Left. The American Conservative Union rated him (I'm going from memory here) a ZERO (out of 100) in 2004 and, I think, around an 8 in 2005 with 100 being most conservative and 0 being most liberal. I suspect the only reason he didn't rate ZERO in 2005 was because of his support for the war. I'm sensing Deja-McGovern-Vu all over again in 2008.

And, just for the record, keefer and I are former SPOOKS, not SPOOFS. I can't vouch for the others, although it would surprise me if Warriornation, Freedom1 and AAR are all the same person.

I can't vouch for the others, although it would surprise me if Warriornation, Freedom1 and AAR are all the same person.

I'm basing my accusations on the person who claims to be all those individuals--a spoofer will almost always take the most extreme position, especially a moonbat spoofing a rightwinger. I guess their motive is typical lefty behaviour--make rightwingers appear to be kooks, so the moderate/independent folks will side with them.

I'll e-mail you later, Spook, or you can go check out the spoof website, Scrutator. It's where I was taken for the big spoof ride. I'll get the site address for you. Standby...

Scrutator, a spoof site.

keefer, you obviously spend a lot more time on stuff like this than I do, and know a lot more, but if Warrior and AAR, in particular, is a spoofer who also writes as axis, ashinine, and so on, I don't get the reason for the spoof. Because Warrior and AAR have put up some very impressive info which the Left cannot like. They have indicted and convicted lefty after lefty, presented excellent and well-researched information to counter lefty claims, and in general have been thorns in the sides of the left posters here.

I could see the lefty side as a spoof---I have often wondered if it was possible for anyone to actually believe the stuff they post, and have even wondered if they were the creations of some right-wing genius who wanted to illustrate the vacancy of the Left. But then I listen to Air America for a while, and read the letters to the editor in different papers, and realize that there actually IS a contingent out there that believes that we really only went to war over WMD, that Bush 'justified' the Iraq invasion by claiming that Sadaam was behind 9/11, and so on. No, there actually ARE neorads that divorced from reality, that determined to ignore or defy facts and reason.

Am I spoofer? Just curious...

Anyway, thank you, Mark, for your excellent outline on the only true motivation the Left has for anything---the All Hate, All The Time agenda of loathing Bush.

I've been saying for years that the Left, having been so successful in running on an illusion for so long, is bound to try it again by demonizing everyone else they don't like---and that this will be their downfall. While they will hold on to those whose personal pathology is a natural matchup for this kind of total negativism and nastiness, millions who bought into the Bush-bashing because they simply could not imagine anyone making up things like the claims against Bush will start to see that it is just impossible for EVERY conservative to be the embodiment of evil.

There is a tendency among honest people to think that others will only lie if they know they will not get caught, so they assume that the big lies about Bush MUST be true or no one would risk telling them. It is a hard lesson to learn, to find out that there are some who simply do not care about being caught in a lie. They are shameless. It is no big deal to them. But once you experience a true pathological liar and the problems created by assuming that something MUST be true because of a belief that this person would not be willing to be caught out, and suffer the consequences, you learn to check things out before believing them. I have a feeling that a lot of Democrats are in the process of learning that lesson, and the attacks on Lieberman may be the beginning of the tipping point.

Spook,

You're on to something there - I caught a brief news story this AM where George McGovern was addressing a meeting "honoring" Vietnam War draft dodgers up in Canada...and, of course, these cowards are trying to latch on to the dozen or so fools who has deserted from the US military in this War on Terrorism. There was something spectacularly pathetic about the whole thing - losers gathered together to congratulate themselves on being losers...

Hate, the left-wing motivator?

Well, yes, there is plenty dispicable about the right to warrant some hatred towards what it does. But really, it is the right that invented the politics of hate, whose entire raison d'ertre is hate, and that lives and breathes off of the myriad groups that it is instructed to hate and fear: gays, immigrants, the French, "activist" judges, the ACLU, feminists, intellectuals, academia, science, reason, the UN, the world, leftists, socialists, "pinkos" of any kind, Hollywood, etc etc. The list is very long - I'm sure I am forgetting many. It includes basically anyone who does not bow before the Dear Leader - and the list is increasingly including veterans.

And entire industry has sprung up focalizing hate towards the feared group of the moment. Anne Coulter makes a good living from it, and Cheney-Bush get elected because of it.

We are rapidly becoming Germany, ca 1933

Funny how Conservatives are far more happy than liberals eh aarontime? But lets not let facts get in the way of a far left wing lunatic's agenda.

Keefer

I have to agree with Almiranta I don't think they are liberals pretending to be Conservatives, they've argued with facts and logic, something we both know liberals are incapable of.

Mark,

In May, you wrote, "The Connecticut Senatorial primary will be our test case of Democratic anti-Bush intensity....[because of] Liebermann's continued support for the liberation of Iraq - the central crime and failure of the Bush Administration in the eyes of the anti-Bush left. If anti Bush sentiment is as strong as alleged, then in Connecticut we should see a very strong result from Lieberman's challenger."

As you can now see, anti-Bush sentiment must, indeed, be as strong as alleged, since it appears Lieberman is about to lose the primary.

I am so tired of hearing about Bush hatred by the left. Most people don't hate Bush as a person, but are deeply concerned by the damage his administration has done to this country, both at home and abroad. He campaigned as a moderate who would bring the country together, and claimed that he wanted us to remain a humble nation in our dealings internationally. He said he, unlike Clinton, did not believe in nation building. Well, these were just empty promises, and those who believed him can't help but feel betrayed.

Many still do not believe that he fairly won in 2000, with his brother, Jeb Bush, pledging to deliver the state, and Katherine Harris (who is so unstable GW would not support her for the Senate) willing to go the extra mile to do just that.

Bush has dragged us into a war that no one wanted and most see as a terrible, costly mistake. His domestic policies have the mark of that deviant, Karl Rove, and have been engineered to be divisive. Flag-burning, gay marriage and resolutions condemning the NYT and supporting Iraq, have no point but to divide us.

The right has also mastered the politics of hate-their spokesmen demagogue it every day-Ann Coulter makes her living off it, as do Rush, Sean and Michael Savage-just to name a few.

9/11 provided the current administration with the gift of a united country, and overwhelming international support. This goodwill was quickly squandered by its rash and arrogant actions. Any dissenters were quickly labeled defeatists, and a grand strategy emerged where Republicans conflated support for the war in Iraq with patriotism for our country. The media has been labelled treasonous for providing oversight to the expanded executive power, and one zealous talk show suggested that a NYT publisher should go the gas chamber.

So, R-wingers-lets not be myopic. You reap what you sow, and there's plenty of hate speech to go around.

The left hates President Bush because President Bush is President - don't let anyone ever tell you different: the left hates him because on January 20th, 2001, he was sworn in rather than Al Gore.

Now that we have had the benefit of being subjected to the "Noonan Spin", its time for a little reality.

The left dislikes President Bush because he has NO respect for the constitution, NO respect for the law and NO respect for the rights of US citizens, never mind the citizens of other countries. (Who he loves to torture in secret prisons)

While the left is unhappy with the fact that a Republican is in the white house, (As would be the right if the opposite is true) they are tolerant of it so long as the White House stays within the lines. There was no great Regan hating campaign, during the Regan years, nor a great Bush Sr. hating campaign during his years. Mind you, these were REAL Republicans, not fakie Neo-cons and despite their faults, they were honorable men.

Bush on the other hand, has no honor, he has surrounded himself with the biggest band of thieves, crooks, killers that has ever graced the White House, this is because he is comfortable with these types of people...it reminds them of himself.

The left hates President Bush because President Bush is President - don't let anyone ever tell you different: the left hates him because on January 20th, 2001, he was sworn in rather than Al Gore.

Now that we have had the benefit of being subjected to the "Noonan Spin", its time for a little reality.

The left dislikes President Bush because he has NO respect for the constitution, NO respect for the law and NO respect for the rights of US citizens, never mind the citizens of other countries. (Who he loves to torture in secret prisons)

While the left is unhappy with the fact that a Republican is in the white house, (As would be the right if the opposite is true) they are tolerant of it so long as the White House stays within the lines. There was no great Regan hating campaign, during the Regan years, nor a great Bush Sr. hating campaign during his years. Mind you, these were REAL Republicans, not fakie Neo-cons and despite their faults, they were honorable men.

Bush on the other hand, has no honor, he has surrounded himself with the biggest band of thieves, crooks, killers that has ever graced the White House, this is because he is comfortable with these types of people...it reminds them of himself.

Funny how Conservatives are far more happy than liberals eh aarontime?

Ignorance is bliss

"Possibly. But right did the childish hate gig first, with Clinton, so at best the left is just sinking down to your level."

Here Michael spouts one of the most beloved of the Left's canards---the Right Hated Clinton theme.

First, I knew of NO consrvatives who "hated" Clinton. Hey, I was a Liberal when he was elected. I didn't hate him.

But the only way to defend Clinton is to set up some straw men.

1. The Right HATED him and was OBSESSED with bringing him down
2. It was ALL ABOUT SEX
3. OK, Clinton had one flaw, but otherwise he was a great president, and his sexual appetites had no effect on his presidential performance

All false. The conservatives I came to know, as the depredations of the Clinto Presidency drove me inexorably to the Right, kind of liked the guy. They most definitely did NOT like what he did, his abuses of power. But I never saw any insult to him stronger than a teasing about his pudgines and fondness for junk food, or the obvious jokes about his sexual escapades. Find me references to Clinton that even come close to the vitriol and bile of the Chimpy meme, the claims of drug addiction, and so on, that have been leveled at Bush.

Look at this, from the axis of ignorance, a true neorad: " Bush on the other hand, has no honor, he has surrounded himself with the biggest band of thieves, crooks, killers that has ever graced the White House, this is because he is comfortable with these types of people...it reminds them of himself." I can't remember anything even approaching that level of spite, malice, hatred, and loathing directed at Clinton.

It was not about sex. Yes, that was mentioned---partly because it is too obvious not to, and partly because of concerns that we might have a serial rapist in the White House. But in the second case, it was about the criminality of his actions, not the sexuality. It was just too easy to sluff off criticism of Clinton as being based in prudery and the dreaded "Religious Right".

Clinton not only did some terrible things during hius presidency, there is ample evidence that his sexual predations did, in fact, have a negative effect on his official performance.

But I have seen objective, rational conerns about the legality of many of Clinton's actions both before and during his term, and concerns about the impact on national security of many of his decisions.

You all are determined to trivialize legitimate concerns as just being about sex, or reflecting HATRED of the man personally. But there is absolutely nothing in the record to support either effort to divert attention from the facts.

And when a Lefty 'defends' his irrational unbalanced personal loathing of Bush as somehow justified by his belief that this is just a turn-around-is-fair-play situation, I am stunned by the shallowness of those who think this makes sense.

keefer,

I'm a spoofer???????

How can I prove that I'm not?

If that's what you think?

Jeremiah

axis of ignorance has outdone himself in his latest post. Ranty would be proud of you, my boy. You have strung together a longer list of lefty lies than I have seen in one place for a very long time.

So, let's see what you can back up. Facts, m'boy. Facts. Not Liberal Lefty rantings, not Ranty Rhodes riffs that sound convincing but are the cotton candy of political discourse. Facts.

Support each of these allegations with examples and sources, please.

"because he has NO respect for the constitution...."

.."NO respect for the law..."

"... and NO respect for the rights of US citizens...."

"..... never mind the citizens of other countries."

"... (Who he loves to torture in secret prisons)"

Then there is this list of loony lies:

Back them up. please.

"There was no great Regan hating campaign, during the Regan years...."

"Bush on the other hand, has no honor...."

".. he has surrounded himself with the biggest band of thieves...."

".... crooks..."

".... killers..."

"..... that has ever graced the White House...."

Name a crime, name a murder, please. The addition of KILLERS was a new one. Since you are probably not referring to Vince Foster or Ron Brown, let us know who killed whom, please. (And don't even bother to attack Laura Bush, for her tragic accident when she was a teenager. That is too low even for you.)

So, who stole what? ("Thieves")

Who commmitted what crimes? ("Crooks")

Who killed whom? ("Killers")

Who's been tortured? And in what secret prisons? Names, identities, locations....more than just hysterical rantings, please

(By the way, you might define "torture" for us, as to the Left it appears to include anything remotely unpleasant, such as confinement, questioning, or being around infidels.)

Name a U.S. citizen whose rights have been compromised.

Name a law that has been broken by the Admdinistration or the President. No fair just inventing things, or claiming that actions are illegal in spite of court rulings that they are legal.

I will concede that if the President is aware of you, axis of stupidity, it is possible that he has no respect for YOU. No, make that a definite guarantee that he would have no respect for you. Because you are not a seeker of truth, you are a purveyor of what you know to be lies. Because no one smart enough to turn on a computer is so stupid he can actually believe the crap you keep posting. You know it's bogus, you just like saying it, because the nastier it is, the falser it is, the meaner it is, the more accurately it reflects your true nature.

"We are rapidly becoming Germany, ca 1933 "

Is Air America on the Bush-as-Hitler thing again? They are so lucky that their disciples are so historically ignorant. And so uncaring of fact or truth.

Errortime, you just need to get out a little more. A little reading, a little exposure to people who are not rabid left-wing radical demogogues, a little fresh air---you are becoming a troll, a troll who doesn'e even chew his own food but just regurgitates the predigested pap fed to him by his minders.

But even a troll has some dignity, and it is impossible to spout the crap you spouted in your last post and still have any claim to personal dignity. I'm embarrassed FOR you, since you clearly lack the ability to feel shame.

Just went back and re-read the posts. Errortime, you win. It was a close call, what with axis of asses making a strong effort toward the finish, but today you are definitely King Of The Nutters.

Not to worry, axis...I know you have enough venom in you to make a comeback soon.

Hye, axis---any info on that demo job on the World Trade Center tower? I've got a lot of people waiting to hear the straight skinny, from A Guy Who Knows.

I keep asking, but you keep not answering......

How did they get the place wired up with no one noticing?

How did they hide the explosives and detonators and wires so that even the janitors and maintenance people never saw them?

What happened to the dozens and dozens of demo experts it must have taken to so such a huge job. Is that who Bush "killed"?

How did they know the tower was going to be hit by a plane?

Why did they decide to go against conventional wisdom and bring THIS building down from the top down, and not let it collapse on itself from the bottom up, like ALL other demolitions have?

How did they make this happen?

Who pushed the button?

Why?

I mean, you told us just enough to get us really interested, and then you dropped the ball. You would NEVER just post a silly, foolish, LIE, would you? So you must have some really deep info on this.

Share, please.

Next week: What really happened to the people on the plane that never hit the Pentagon? When the Pentagon was really struck by a rocket, and not a plane full of passengers, this plane was diverted to....where? What happened to the people? Were they KILLED? (That wascally wepublican Bush again, out killing..) or were they just held somewhere? Where? A SECRET PRISON?? Were they TORTURED?

Keep us up to date on the Conspiracy of the Week Club findings.

Anyone that saw the debate between Lamont and Lieberman and comes away from that event to vote for Lamont...well they are really hurting in the brain cell department.

I'm no Joe fan, he's an old fashion liberal, but Lamont should be put in a rubber room with Maffie and Axis because the guy is certifiable.

Support each of these allegations with examples and sources, please.

"because he has NO respect for the constitution...."

-- Let's see, how about wiping out the 4th ammendment with the patriot act, or how about ignoring it when you conduct secret illegal warrantless wiretaps or searches.?

.."NO respect for the law..."

-- Let's see, how about the warrantless wiretaps, that is in direct violation of the FISA law and likely the 4th amendment? How about ignoring Geneva rules for prisoners, in violation of US and International law? How about condoning torture, also in violation of US and International law? How about secret rendition?

"... and NO respect for the rights of US citizens...."

-- See above, attack on the 4th ammendment, the attack on habeas corpus, the attack now on the freedom of the press and the first ammendment by threatening to jail reporters that report on secret illegal acts by government?

"..... never mind the citizens of other countries."

-- Again, see above, most of the torture victims are citizens of foreign lands.

"... (Who he loves to torture in secret prisons)"

-- Well documented. Abu Ghraib prison, Guantanamo, Bagram. Wide spread abuse, torture and suicides.

Then there is this list of loony lies:

Back them up. please.

"There was no great Regan hating campaign, during the Regan years...."

-- I am certainly not aware of any great left Regan hating campaign. Certainly there was disagreement with some policies, but Regan was 10 times the man that Bush is.

"Bush on the other hand, has no honor...."

-- A man that does not respect the law, the consititution and the rights of citizens has little if any honor. Especially if that man is a President.

".. he has surrounded himself with the biggest band of thieves...."

Lets see, "Kenny Boy Lay" from Enron, Cunningham, Delay, Cheney, Rove, the list goes on.

".... crooks..."

-- Delay, Ken Lay, Rove, Libby, again the list goes on.

".... killers..."

-- How about Negroponte for example, organized death squads in the past, now in a position where he can oversee more death and carnage. How about Cheney, who put the "Invade Iraq" bug into Dubya's ear in the early 1990's, or Rummy, who said he could lead it to a certain victory.

So as you can see, no lies here at all.

Axis

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thank you.

Almiranta is playing conspiracy theory? I feel left out Can I play too?

"How did they get the place wired up with no one noticing?"

-- Well, if you were paying attention, you would have noticed that the entire week to 10 days worth of surveillance video from the WTC immediately prior to 9/11 was missing. Then the mysterious power fluctutations the week previous. But when your Presidents brother is in charge of security there at the WTC, anything is possible isn't it?

"How did they hide the explosives and detonators and wires so that even the janitors and maintenance people never saw them?"

-- Despite what you believe, it would not take a great amound of charges to bring such a building down. Small charges, strategicially placed in support columns and bearing beams would bring it all down. These small charges would easily be located in restricted areas of the building and could be disguised as nearly anything, an emergency lighting system for example.

"What happened to the dozens and dozens of demo experts it must have taken to so such a huge job. Is that who Bush "killed"?"

-- Dozens? Hardly, a small group could easily pull it off, especially if they had free reign of the building thanks to Bush's brother being in charge of security.

"How did they know the tower was going to be hit by a plane?"

-- When Bush learned in August of 2001 that "Osama was determined to strike America and it involved the use of commercial planes", you don't really think that he did not bother finding out more before deciding that "if Osamas coming, I am taking a long vacation until its over" do you?

"Why did they decide to go against conventional wisdom and bring THIS building down from the top down, and not let it collapse on itself from the bottom up, like ALL other demolitions have?"

-- If you watched the collapse of bulding 7, confirmed by the lease holder, Larry Silverstein on PBS, that it WAS taken down by explosives, you would see that it was taken down by a cascading series of explosions rising upward. The WTC were no different, they did not collapse from the top down.

"Who pushed the button?"

-- Just about anyone could have.

"Why"

-- Well, it gave the neocons the "second pearl harbor" they needed, it gave silverstein a chance to make billions in insurance settlements from a $15 million investment. It gave Osama a chance to play "Gotcha". A win-win situation for all those involved.

Hey axis...you do know how to spell, right? There was no President Regan.

keefer...you couldn't be more wrong.

A simple IP match is easy enough. I just started posting here in the last 2 months. No spoofing from me.

Oh my God...Axis sounds like Charlie Sheehan now. Did he really say that explosives brought down the WTC?

Wow...I have to tell you Mark, that would be the final straw for me and the rest of these insane lefty idiots here.

If any of them know ANYTHING about structural engineering they would know that a cascading effect can also happen at the apex of a structure if there is erorsion of the structure (i.e. steel fatigue, etc).

These people are amazing, truly amazing. To even come up with these thoughts is amazing.

Disgusting and typical. I'd ban them immediately.

Axis and the other nutballs should learn a bit on how the WTC buildings were constructed and how the loads were distributed before putting forth looney ideas on "what really happened".

Clinton lied under oath. He should have been removed from office. You could have seen President Gore in action, when he wasn't foaming at the mouth. Thank God for the voters of Tennesse. Has a "favorite son" ever lost his home state before in US history?

You know, in the real world, people tend to take national defense as something important. They tend to want the government to do what ever it takes to keep them safe in an unsafe world. The NYT and the foam at the mouth liberals don't really impress them. Recent events of foiled plots show most of us that the feds are doing their job pretty well, and the Republicans will get the credit. But should the left win the elections, we will see them change their tune and continue most programs and policies of President Bush.

keefer,

I'm with you on this one keebler. I think everyone on this board is a double agent and idiot. Except you and me, of course. And I wonder about you.

The left dislikes President Bush because he has NO respect for the constitution, NO respect for the law and NO respect for the rights of US citizens, never mind the citizens of other countries. (Who he loves to torture in secret prisons)

This is a pretty good summation, aarontime, and what is more galling is that he doesn't care that everyone knows it. In fact his dictatorship statement pretty well summarizes this goofball who has always been protected from criticism. Silver spoon syndrome.

Re: all those accusations you wanted the left to "back up..."

They're all a matter of public record.

Wow, I've been posting on and off for about four years now and this is the first time someone has masqueraded as me. I guess I'm famous. No, keefer, I'm not a spoofer. Although, I do feel like I've entered the Twilight Zone. Cue Rod Serling.

Here are two Conservative Republican political web sites. I found Lucianne.com because Sean Hannity recommened it. Go to these sites and read what the posters say about Islam, terrorism, Islam vs. the West. They sound just like me.

Lucianne.com

RightNation.US

Well read it and weep, Tighty Whities:

think we have a problem on global warming. I think there is a debate about whether it's caused by mankind or whether it's caused naturally, but it's a worthy debate. It's a debate, actually, that I'm in the process of solving by advancing new technologies, burning coal cleanly in electric plants, or promoting hydrogen-powered automobiles, or advancing ethanol as an alternative to gasoline

Looks like W. has been on it all along and is going to solve the problem of global warming! Wonder if he's also working on inventing an internet?

I can't help but wonder if Mark Noonan isn't also a spoof. The rest of us good conservatives understand that the debate is about differing opinions on how this country is run. The left wants the government to control our economy, and the right wants free market capitalism.

So why this changing the subject and pretending that the only disagreement is because the left doesn't personally like Bush?

All this argument does is feed the liberal points that we don't have any good arguments left, that we're having to resort to rhetorical trickery and dishonest debate.

Fess up Noonan... Are you a spoof?

Wait!!! I've got axis' experiment that he conducted to PROVE without a doubt, that the WTC attack was setup:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=56836&mesg_id=56836&

Come on, axis, admit it. That was you on that site wasn't it? Wasn't it?

Everyone who thinks Stockressy is really a Conservative please raise your hand............oh come on, at least one person must believe him?...............no?............looks like no one believes you.

"You all are determined to trivialize legitimate concerns as just being about sex, or reflecting HATRED of the man personally" - Alimiranta

Could a more ironic statement ever be uttered?

As far as stockressy's question as to whether Mark is a spoof, my opinion is that it could hardly be more obvious that he is a propagandist, disingenuous to the extreme (of course, when the name of your website indicates support for Bush prior to actually seeing what Bush does, are we really supposed to expect anything other than bias?). He, of course, will never, ever admit to being a propagandist, because that would wreck his propaganda. I'm not sure what his motvies are - good or bad. But I loathe his techniques (not him), in any case. Nevertheless, he's having his effect on me, as I spend much time arguing points that should be obvious.

Longz,

I'm not sure that Lieberman is about to lose - but he's going to have a close shave, at best. This will, though, show that the intensity on the left is extraordinarily strong...but it isn't focused in a positive manner. They aren't supporting Lamont so much because he's the better man than Lieberman, but because he hates President Bush more than Lieberman does.

If the left manages to whack Lieberman at the primary, then it will both be an indicator of leftwing intensity, but also a harbinger of the complete melt-down of the Democratic Party between 2006 and 2008 (something, by the way, I both suspected and wrote about back in early 2005).

Axis,

Fortunately, I'm old enough to remember the Reagan Administration - the vitriol wasn't quite as intense, to be sure, but then again it didn't need to be as back then the MSM was unchallenged in its ability to slander a Republican all by itself...didn't need a DailyKos and DU when NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times and Washington Post did it all for you...ah, lefties still pine for the pre-Limbaugh days of the Reagan Administration.

I remember the horrific lies which were told about Nancy Reagan; I remember the number of Reagan aides who were dragged through the much only to find, years later, that there never was anything against them; I remember the denigration of "cowboy" Ronald "RayGun". And, of course, the left hated Reagan for the precise reason they hate Bush - Reagan kept on beating them at the polls.

Kritter,

You are entirely divorced from reality - everything in your comment is precisely turned round 180 degrees. Just how do you get through life thinking that black is white?

"We are rapidly becoming Germany, ca 1933"
Posted by: Aarontime

No, but the current crisis in the world-GWOT-is like that which emerged in Germany, ca 1933. World War II's Winston Churchill knew a thing or two about the religion of Islam. From an article entitled, "Waiting for Churchill or Waiting for Godot?" by European writer Fjordman at DhimmiWatch.org:

Churchill certainly understood Islam. In his book "The River War," written as long ago as 1899, he wrote this about the followers of Muhammad:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

I don't think it will even be close in the CT race. If Lamont manages to eke out a primary win, Lieberman running as an independent will beat him handily in the general election in November. Don't forget that unaffiliateds outnumber democrats in CT. Joe was very smart in his announcement of his independent run if he loses the primary, by how he managed the debate, and how he's running his campaign. He's painting Lamont as the raving leftie that he is, which will have no appeal to CT's unaffiliated. Polls have Lieberman as a 15% winner in a three-way.

Mark:

everything in your [=Kritter] comment is precisely turned round 180 degrees.

Explain, what precisely was turned round 180 degrees in Kritter's comment?

Most people aren't deeply concerned by the damage Bush's administration has done to this country, both at home and abroad?

Bush didn't claim he would bring the country together, and didn't claim that he wanted the US to remain a humble nation internationally?

Bush has said he believed in nation building?

Bush hasn't dragged the US into war?

Flag-burning, gay marriage and resolutions condemning the NYT and supporting Iraq, have the point to bring the nation together?

Ann Coulter, Rush, Sean and Michael Savage don't make a living?

9/11 provided the current administration with a divided country, and overwhelming international opposition?

That opposition was quickly squashed by rash and arrogant actions?

Dissenters were labeled victors?

Republicans conflated support for the war in Iraq with treason?

The media has been labelled patriotic for providing oversight?

A zealous talk show suggested that a NYT publisher should be saved from the gaschamber?

You don't reap what you sow?

There isn't plenty of hate speech to go around?

Mark,

I have to be honest with you! I thought keefer was a pretty good guy!, but I can't understand why he thinks I'm a spoof??

Jeremiah

okay, I have to fess up. I ash am really a conservative alter ego of keefer.

newamericancentury

Obvious to far left wing fanatical extremists like yourself. Not so obvious to clear thinking individuals.

Ash quote--"okay, I have to fess up. I ash am really a conservative alter ego of keefer."
__________________________________________________

So then that means you have two accounts with typekey indentity!!

and you basically talk to yourself on these posts!!

correct??

Jeremiah

Ash quote--"okay, I have to fess up. I ash am really a conservative alter ego of keefer."
__________________________________________________

So then that means you have two accounts with typekey indentity!!

and you basically talk to yourself on these posts!!

correct??

Jeremiah

Jeremiah,

There have been several keefers...this might not be the real one.

William,

Quite honestly, all that has gone wrong - especially as regards internal American affairs - is the fault of the left.

It was the left which started a campaign of slander against President Bush - and merely intensified that campaign after 9/11. There was no real unity after 9/11 - just a veneer of it as the hate-filled left, for a very brief time (days, really) kept its mouth shut. After that very brief time, the left has remorselessly pursued a hate-Bush agenda.

One lie after another, all designed to harm President Bush, and if the nation is harmed into the bargain, then so be it. It took a while, but it eventually got off the ground when the MSM, in its desire to harm Bush's re-election effort, decided to slowly but surely allow ever more of the leftwing conspiracy theories about the past five years to enter the mainstream. What the left did was evil, what the MSM did was folly - but it all worked out the same.

We have in President Bush one of the most insightful, measured, careful and courageous leaders this nation has ever had - in spite of inheriting a materially run-down and morally dismayed military force, President Bush has carried the fight to the enemy from day one and has seen to it that the latent ability of our military forces were given free reign to do what they do best.

50 million people been liberated, Iraq is the first Arab democracy in human history, Libya voluntarily gave up its WMD program, Syria withdrew from Lebanon, winds of political change are blowing through places like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, Iran simmers on the edge of a pro-American revolution, thousands of terrorists have been killed or captured, there have been no new attacks on the US since 9/11 - and President Bush did this while at the same time dealing with the Clinton-era recession, dot-com bust and corporate corruption. The economy is booming, and America is held in actual respect (as opposed to the phony respect of nations like France) by nations which actually matter in the future - India, Indonesia, Japan, etc.

To call this Administration a failure is to turn things 'round 180 degrees, as Kritter did. To say that the right even half-participated in the vitriol of the left is to slander the right.

Jeremiah,

Ash can't be the real keefer. Ash didn't punctuate properly.

okay, I have to fess up. I ash am really a conservative alter ego of keefer. Posted by: Ash

correct version:
"Okay" should be capitalized
"I, Ash, am really"

I'm sure Ash was just kidding.

Mark,

It appears as if I've started a firestorm here, and you can check my IPA--I'm the same keefer who's been here since before the '04 elections. You have spoofers here, posing as conservatives, and some of the lefties are spoofing as morons just to get a reaction. Case in point: Willem van Oranje is from the spoof site, Scrutator, and I'm sure some of his/her friends will follow or are here, because I'm here. van Oranje is the first to come here and not undergo a name change.

It's hard to know whom to trust anymore, so I'm going away for a while. If I wrongly accused anyone of being a spoofer, I apologize. I was merely acting on information I received from a spoofer at Scrutator.

Mark, Matt, Russ, Kevin, Paul, and Sister, thanks for running an imformative, fair blog. I'll see you around.

Ashley, drop your fees five buck, and those fruits will pay you for those lap dances. Thee you around, thweetie!!!

keefer,

Ok, I'll bite: just how would we tell if a lefty is pretending to be a moron just to get a reaction, or if its just a lefty advocating normal leftwing positions?

Bwahaha!

It looks like this Keefer character might be a paid operative trying to sow distrust and dissention on conservative sites? A really pathetic attempt, if so. They should demand a refund.

Mark-Ever listened to right wing talk radio? Almost any day or time you can tune in and hear the left attacked remorsely and viciously. And I know you are aware that Ann Coulter's books, columns and interviews accomplish exactly the same purpose. The left is the party of death, associated with atheism and communism.

On the floor of the House, Republican Jean Schmidt attacked Rep John Murtha's patriotism, because he said Bush did not have a winning strategy in Iraq. Ms. Schmidt was ignorant of Mr. Murtha's 30 year service record in the Marines.

You attack my posts with invective-but never back up your claims with any facts, so I must conclude
that your reasoning is devoid of any relation to reality.

If you're still around in 30 years, I can imagine you will view historians who judge the Bush presidency harshly-as they must by his record- as moonbat liberals!

keefer,

I just checked in, read a few comments, and now I'm wondering what in the world is going on here! It looks like someone has gone nuts -- I just don't know who yet. I checked the calendar, and it's not April Fool's Day!

I thought Matt removed Keefer with a big "K" who was spoofing keefer with a little "k".

I just did a search of the "scrutator.net" site. I don't know anything about it, but I did found the comment by Richard23 which reads:

"Warriornation, Freedom1, Jeremiah, and AAR. I like AAR the best: it stands for Air America Radio, yet nobody seems to get it! Jeremiah is the hardest one to write though. ...Comment by Richard 23 -- July 6, 2006."

Looks like my comments must be agitating someone! I think that's a good thing, right?

I'll have to work on this, so I think I'll just read comments tonight rather than post.

Almiranta and Retired Spook... thanks for the vote of confidence.

AAR

THE NINTH COMMANDMENT: "YOU SHALL NOT BARE FALSE WINESS AGAINST YOUR NEIGHBOR!!!"
__________________________________________________

Surely! "spoofer's", will not go, without punishment!!
__________________________________________________

If indeed this whole thing about "spoofing" is true? then clearly there can be no distinction of what the truth really is, but I can assure you the truth will come out in the end! and I'll tell you one thing! if there is any one and or groups of people who would portray this (kind of evil) so called "spoofing", then it is the DEMOCRATS INDEED!!

Will the democrats lie about being a spoofer?

SUUUURE, THAT'S HOW EVIL AND CORRUPT THEY ARE!!!

I tell you the truth!, the more I see HOW CORRUPT the democrats are, the more I see how imperatively important it is, that we as christians, fight!!, to put them totally out of power!!, and out of OUR WAY!!!

All the democrats are doing is coming here to eve's drop and using the information that they receive in order to cause dissention among OUR people, and to spread even MORE LIES about the true christian conservative's!!

HOW EVIL!!
__________________________________________________
But I want to put this FIRST AND FOREMOST:

I have been as truthful and honest, as I can be!! about everything here, and I AM NOT A SPOOFER!!

It really hurt me when keefer said that he thought I was a "spoofer" and to go on mere assumption is just plain outright blasphemy and ridicule!!

But I DO ACCEPT AND FORGIVE any apology from the REAL keefer!! AND.........

If anyone doubts who I am? then they are welcome to email me at any time they wish!!

address is: beeswax_24@hotmail.com

Jeremiah

I have resisted posting in this string. Better to let the liberals own words prove the theory that they are driven by hatred.

“the left is just sinking down to your level” Michael – justification of the hate.

“there is plenty despicable (corrected spelling) about the right to warrant some hatred towards what it does” Aarontime – Justification (followed by a very lone paragraph to the effect that we deserve to be hated.)

“R-wingers-lets not be myopic. You reap what you sow, and there's plenty of hate speech to go around.” Kritter – final justification following a long “you deserve it” post.

“Bush on the other hand, has no honor, he has surrounded himself with the biggest band of thieves, crooks, killers that has ever graced the White House, this is because he is comfortable with these types of people...it reminds them of himself.” Axis – just the end of another “you dserve it” post. By the way, axis has STILL refused to renounce violence against Republicans after many many weeks.

“Ignorance is bliss” Wim Prange – straight hate post without justification (I like it, pure hatred)

“Tighty Whities” Ash – promoting racial hatred

There are more. In short, none of the liberals actually seem to deny the hatred of Bush and conservatives. Instead, they justify it. Talk about similarity with the Nazi’s? Basing your whole political outlook on hatred is EXACTLY like the Nazi’s. That is why many of you (like Axis for example) even justify violence against conservatives and destruction of Republican offices and vehicles. Really, many of you would be Sooooo at home in a 1930’s Munich beer hall.

AAR,

I don't know what has happened here!!!

I'll say this, I do believe you!!!, because you have been like a friend to me, and you have shown support for the christian's here, and I really took that to heart ever since I've been here!!

It seems so ironic though that everything in the past two months has seemed to be going so well in terms of the debate between the two sides!

Now that the "spoofer" issue has come up there is disorder of conduct!!

And to be honest with you! Had no one brought it up everything would still be, Ok!!

Or at least I think it would be!!

I don't know what to say, really! I just know that I hope you believe me, because I believe you!!

Mark and Matt, I believe both of them, they are both christians!!!! and I highly respect both of them, this is an EXCELLENT project they have going here!!!

I really think though that this whole issue about "spoofers" coming up is just another attack by the devil to try and distort the truth and try to shove lies on the christian conservatives of America, and I believe only a liberal democrat would do such an evil trick!!

I said it before and I'll say it again:
I AM TRULY PERPLEXED AT THE EVIL RUNNING IN THE LIBERAL'S MINDS!!!!

Let's pray for America!!

Jeremiah

Oh my God...Axis sounds like Charlie Sheehan now. Did he really say that explosives brought down the WTC?

Wow...I have to tell you Mark, that would be the final straw for me and the rest of these insane lefty idiots here.

If any of them know ANYTHING about structural engineering they would know that a cascading effect can also happen at the apex of a structure if there is erorsion of the structure (i.e. steel fatigue, etc).

These people are amazing, truly amazing. To even come up with these thoughts is amazing.

Disgusting and typical. I'd ban them immediately.

-- Thanks, you would no doubt have noticed in the sheen interview that over 80% of people calling in agreed with him, so hes far from a nutbar.

As for your other "point", the airplane damage did not occur at the apex of either building, it occured in the upper 2/3's of the building. Metal fatigue would have caused it to collapse in the middle, where the fire was, not at the very top that was totally undamaged, nor at the bottom, which was equally undamaged. Since it did not collapse that way, its clear that something else caused it to fall.

Since building 7 was demolished, and since it would have taken weeks of planning and strategic placing of charges before the planes hit, it is not unconcievable that such charges were also present in the towers.

Mark,

Reagan took his fair share of lumps from the media, as MOST all politicians have. Name me one that had only kind words said about him in the media?

In fact, I think thats good, the media or the fourth estate is a critical element of preserving a strong democracy. Imagine a world where your president would speak and no one would say anything, regardless of if it was a bald faced lie or a truth.

I do DEFINTATELY recall the media bashing Clinton every way from Sunday, so your idea that there is some sort of media bias is silly. If anything, the media has been quite kind to the Bush administration, the only reason you hear so much bad things is that there are so many more going on than in previous administrations.

Axis,

Fortunately, I'm old enough to remember the Reagan Administration - the vitriol wasn't quite as intense, to be sure, but then again it didn't need to be as back then the MSM was unchallenged in its ability to slander a Republican all by itself...didn't need a DailyKos and DU when NBC, ABC, CBS, New York Times and Washington Post did it all for you...ah, lefties still pine for the pre-Limbaugh days of the Reagan Administration.

I remember the horrific lies which were told about Nancy Reagan; I remember the number of Reagan aides who were dragged through the much only to find, years later, that there never was anything against them; I remember the denigration of "cowboy" Ronald "RayGun". And, of course, the left hated Reagan for the precise reason they hate Bush - Reagan kept on beating them at the polls.

ha ha

All this spoofing talk that keefer started has really cracked me up. All you conservatives have your tight little panties pulled up over your faces

I will say, if some are spoofers, they are fairly good, posing as extremists like westboro baptist church member Jerimiah, or skinhead washout AAR.

This is too funny, you are coming apart from within, talk about your tin foil hats.

Jeremiah,

The problem is you can't know for sure that I'm who I say I am. There are some real experts working out there who would rather use their talents to do bad rather than good.

I don't totally trust or believe anything on the Internet. A person can be any one they want to be and there's no way to really know or check on who it is. I've seen many of the spoof e-mails trying to get credit card numbers, e-Bay and PayPal passwords and account information, and many others. It's hard to tell the fake ones from the real ones; although, I can usually tell most of the time by looking at the message source code. I don't order anything through the Internet unless I can give my credit card information to a live person over the phone, and even that's not completely secure.

I haven't had enough experience or read enough about spoofers on the blog sites to fully appreciate or understand their impact. I'll have to work and think on that.

I have always been skeptical about most things and put many in the "noted" category until I can verify or discredit them.

I work on the theory that just because you are paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get you. I've seen it all too often!

People can say "trust but verify." I say "verify before trusting"!

Tell Lucas I read his post.

AAR

Axis,

I'm also, fortunately, old enough to remember the Clinton Administration - when we had MSM reports about just how amazingly effective the Clinton spin was...the MSMers, back then, were proud to have been spun by Clinton.

"just how would we tell if a lefty is pretending to be a moron just to get a reaction"

I for one don't appreciate you calling conservatives morons.

"I don't know how this will end up - but I've got a strong feeling that for the next 20 years or so, the left will be running against President Bush and will demand hatred of President Bush as the price for leftwing support."

Just as the righties continue to hate Clinton and everyone associated with him for the past 10 years, to gain rightwing support. Oh the hypocrisy....

AAR,

Thanks for reading my post, I don't know if you are referring to the one that is trying to prove my brother's validity in the 'Consensus on Global Warming' thread , or the one that was directed towards Canadian Observer, in the 'That Genius Kerry' thread.

At any rate, let me explain something about the Consensus post. At that moment I was just really angry at all the lefties that were spewing hate trash, and assumptions at my brother. I told them what assumption does to people, and I done it in no certain terms. I didn't appreciate, at all, what they were saying. I know I probably never gave a sense of direction as to who the post was directed at. But please know, you and all of the Conservatives that have been on Conservative side of the fight, that I was not directing any of those comments towards you. A lot of you have backed Jeremiah up in this fight against Lefty Morons, and I really appreciate that.

At any rate...keefer opened up a huge can of worms here, and the worms are rotten. It's really puzzling to me why keefer would do something like this. From the observations that I've made over the past few months in the background, he has seemed like a decent Conservative. But, I guess I was wrong...seems that he wants to elevate himself above everyone else, and put himself on a pedastal so he can look big.

For keefer to go on someone else's lies, like he has, and to accuse four different people of being fakes is very serious business. I can see why he ran.

It's understandable for him to be confused...and anyone else for that matter, of the peoples identities on here. Right now, I'm a bit distressed myself. But it isn't right for him to make assumptions that he has no basis for.

I'm confident that things will work out, and like Jeremiah said "the truth will come out in the end". It's all just a matter of time.

There is only ONE who can justify, Jesus Christ, and his truth cuts greater than any two-edged sword. It lays bare to the LEFT and RIGHT. He rains upon the just and the un-just. So I'm VERY CONFIDENT that the truth will come out. I don't think he wants to see complete division amongst people who are trying to stand for what is right.

Lucas.

You know, the best way to insulate against spoofers is to ignore the ad-hominem attacks and argue the issues themselves in a reasonable manner, with the facts and logic they deserve.

The very notion of a "spoofer" is relevant only to one believes ideology and dogma are more imporant than reason. After all, who cares if anyone is really who they say they are if you judge the message on its own merits, without reference to the messenger? To do the opposite -- that is, judge the messenger without reference to the message -- is not only intellectually lazy, it's dangerous. Then you are susceptible to all kinds of nonsense.

Personally, I don't care whether Warriornation, Freedom1, Jeremiah, and AAR are spoofers. What is important to me is that every time I've challenged any one of them they've come back at me with a real argument -- or at least tried. Likewise, I don't care whether Barney, axis, Ash, CO, TL, threemoreyears, maf53, Leftorium, etc., are spoofers either, because they have done the same. The only one I've suspected of being a "spoofer" is ConservativetotheCore. And the reason is that when I challenge him he just gets more ridiculous, not less.

Likewise, many times here I have been alternately been accused of being a lefty moonbat or a righty wingnut. And I don't care about that, either. What I care about is whether I can defend my point of view when challenged in an honest, thoughtful way. Just calling me names doesn't impress me much. It does sometimes motivate me, though, lol! Especially when I detect a grain of truth in it.

There is nothing I hate worse than not being able to follow my own logic all the way through. Then again, there is nothing I relish more than a serious challenge to do so. Sometimes I discover that I really can't defend my position, because new information makes it untenable. And when that happens I change my mind -- I've done that numerous times. What I won't do is resort to name-calling.

Democracy depends on an informed electorate. An informed electorate requires a free, open, and reasoned discussion of information, ideas, and the logic applied to them. An informed electorate becomes less possible to the extent that information is suppressed, logic is ignored, and ideas are denigrated on an ad-hominem basis.

Lucas,

I had only read the one under "That Genius Kerry", but now I've read both. There are so many post here that I don't get to read most of them and only have time to comment on a very few. There are many more where I would like to post comments, but just don't have the time. I'm not a fast writer to start with, and I usually have to think about it before I even start writing -- unless I'm really keyed up -- which does happen on occasion. I've worked with and for people who can write a near perfect document on the first try, and the words flow effortlessly onto the paper, but that's not me.

I understand your anger. I have never seen as much sheer hate and anger as that which has been spewed forth from the liberal left the past few years. I've gotten more or less used to it when dealing with then, and now I throw some back. That wasn't the way I was raised, though. Sometimes I have wait a while before replying, sometimes I ignore it, and sometimes I fly right back into them.

It's the same way liberal Democrats treat President Bush, America, and anything or anyone they don't like. I would like to see Republicans, Conservatives, President Bush, and organizations like Fox News stop being so conciliatory and respectful and just start attacking them head on. That may not be the "proper" or "right" thing to do, but there really is no compromise with the liberal left -- they don't want and will not accept compromise. If we agree to one of their "demands" they will forget that and move on to the next ones and the next ones after that.

I think many of Americans false impressions and decline in the polls was caused by President Bush's and Republican's failure to strike back early in his presidency. The liberal Democrats and the media were allowed to say whatever they wanted and it remained uncontested because Republicans thought Americans would see it as lies and propaganda (which they can't). That allowed the liberal Democrats to get the upper hand and it went downhill from there. The liberal left acts loonier and nuttier by the day.

I do not yet understand what happened with keefer --