Coast Guard:

We're always ready for the call,
We place our trust in Thee.
Through howling gale and shot and shell,
To win our victory.
"Semper Paratus" is our guide,
Our pledge, our motto, too.
We're "Always Ready," do or die!
Aye! Coast Guard, we fight for you.

Nate,

Sorry 'bout that - corrected in the post.

Sorry to be a bit picky but the first song is actually the Field Artillery song. The Army song is:
Verse: First to fight for the right,
And to build the Nation’s might,
And The Army Goes Rolling Along
Proud of all we have done,
Fighting till the battle’s won,
And the Army Goes Rolling Along.

Refrain: Then it’s Hi! Hi! Hey!
The Army’s on its way.
Count off the cadence loud and strong
For where e’er we go,
You will always know
That The Army Goes Rolling Along.

It is sung to the same tune but the words were changed in 1952.
Jon McFarling 1LT IN IRR

I wonder how many people reading this have actually heard the Coast Guard theme?
The Coast Guard doesn't get the respect it should. While the other four services bring to mind mighty engines of destruction and powerful fighting forces, the Coast Guard is seen more as a bunch of armed lifeguards in dinky little patrol boats, more cop than gob.
I think it's high time, especially in these days when the major problems of the country involve the borders, that we give just a little more respect to the men and women of the United States Coast Guard.

No consensus on Global Warming....exactly!

Jon,

Really? Never knew that...then again, why would a swabbie know what a ground pounder sings?

Thanks for the heads up.

My church here in Virginia has a large military presence. So much that every Memorial Day Sunday we have music that thanks and acknowledges Gods great gifts to America.

We honor our military families with the Armed Forces medley sung by the choir and members of the respective forces stand when their song is sung. I get a chill in my spine when I witness this.

So many of the mainstream churches reject any sort of patriotism and in doing that reject the families of the men and women that serve to protect the right these churches have to stay open and worship without interference.

God Bless America!

I live in the northern Virginia area also. I've heard all the songs. Though a Marine, I have to say my favorite is still the Star Spangled banner. Pre-druggie Whitney Houson made me cry at the begining of one particular super-bowl with it. She even got a gold rcord out of it.

O say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore dimly seen thro' the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner: O, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

O thus be it ever when free-men shall stand
Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust!”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

WARBOY,
Have you actually SEEN the Gore movie?

And we have cleared this up. Mr. Lindzen is a shrill for the oil and coal companies. So if you realize where Mr. Lindzen bread is buttered, you too will take his opinion with a grain of salt.

My favorite patriotic song is America The Beautiful.
Amber waves of grain, purple mountains majesty. No bombs bursting in air.

God blesses the world.

America the Beautiful is good. But Francis wasn't making up the scene, he was describing it. Maybe it means more to people who have served.

Kahn, you are the only other person besides my husband (recently retired Marine) who knows the entire National Anthem. Thank you.

Ash, I love America the Beautiful too. It makes me cry every time I hear/sing it.

Kahn, sorry should have said ".......other person that I have encountered who knows......"

Ash....I see, so the MIT professor is a shrill. So, apparently, are the UCLA professors, the Stanford professors, the Harvard professors.

Amazing how many are shrills.

Now...explain to me Gore's OWN COMMENTS. "We don't know...the scientists don't know."

Get back to me when you can spin out of that one.

America the Beautiful is an awesome song, though it is rarely played in it's fullest form. Here are the entire lyrics

------

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern impassioned stress
A thoroughfare of freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!

O beautiful for heroes proved
In liberating strife.
Who more than self their country loved
And mercy more than life!
America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness
And every gain divine!

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for halcyon skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the enameled plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till souls wax fair as earth and air
And music-hearted sea!

O beautiful for pilgrims feet,
Whose stem impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till paths be wrought through
wilds of thought
By pilgrim foot and knee!

O beautiful for glory-tale
Of liberating strife
When once and twice,
for man's avail
Men lavished precious life!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till selfish gain no longer stain
The banner of the free!

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till nobler men keep once again
Thy whiter jubilee!

Ash....you do realize that bombs bursting in air have helped free 100's of millions of people in this world, including Canadians....do you not?

No one likes war...NO ONE. Sometimes it is necessary.

John F. Kennedy...remember him...Democrat who lowered taxes and, God Forbid, went into Cuba (Bay of Pigs) and Vietnam without either of them attacking us.

Here was his take on the NY Times

On April 27, 1961, President John Kennedy delivered a speech before the American Newspaper Publishers Association at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York. He addressed the issue of the press's role in preserving national security in the Cold War. President Kennedy lamented the fact that secret information about America's covert operations had routinely appeared in American newspapers, to be read by friend and foe alike. He noted that the Communists had openly boasted of gaining information from American newspapers that they would otherwise have had to use spies to attempt to steal. And he called on newspapers not to publish stories based on the single test, Is it news? but rather to add a second test: How does it affect national security?

The speech can be both read and listened to in its entirety here. The speech is around 19 minutes long.

CeCe, Thanks. But I must admit that I cut and pasted it.

Ash,

This is a shill?

Professor Lindzen is a dynamical meteorologist with interests in the broad topics of climate, planetary waves, monsoon meteorology, planetary atmospheres, and hydrodynamic instability. His research involves studies of the role of the tropics in mid-latitude weather and global heat transport, the moisture budget and its role in global change, the origins of ice ages, seasonal effects in atmospheric transport, stratospheric waves, and the observational determination of climate sensitivity. He has made major contributions to the development of the current theory for the Hadley Circulation, which dominates the atmospheric transport of heat and momentum from the tropics to higher latitudes, and has advanced the understanding of the role of small scale gravity waves in producing the reversal of global temperature gradients at the mesopause. He pioneered the study of how ozone photochemistry, radiative transfer and dynamics interact with each other. He is currently studying the ways in which unstable eddies determine the pole to equator temperature difference, and the nonlinear equilibration of baroclinic instability and the contribution of such instabilities to global heat transport. He has also been developing a new approach to air-sea interaction in the tropics, and is actively involved in parameterizing the role of cumulus convection in heating and drying the atmosphere. He has developed models for the Earth's climate with specific concern for the stability of the ice caps, the sensitivity to increases in CO2, the origin of the 100,000 year cycle in glaciation, and the maintenance of regional variations in climate. In cooperation with colleagues and students, he is developing a sophisticated, but computationally simple, climate model to test whether the proper treatment of cumulus convection will significantly reduce climate sensitivity to the increase of greenhouse gases. Prof. Lindzen is a recipient of the AMS's Meisinger, and Charney Awards, and AGU's Macelwane Medal. He is a corresponding member of the NAS Committee on Human Rights, a member of the NRC Board on Atmospheric Sciences and Climate, and a Fellow of the AAAS1. He is a consultant to the Global Modeling and Simulation Group at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, and a Distinguished Visiting Scientist at California Institute of Technology's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. (Ph.D., '64, S.M., '61, A.B., '60, Harvard University)

So, who is better positioned to know - Gore, or Lindzen?

I'd say the person who's toast is not buttered by the oil and coal conglomerates. Ever watch Court TV? Lawyers can bring experts with longer lists of credentials than Mr. Lindzen. One will testify one way, the other will contradict him.

So I propose that Mr. Lindzen though very qualified, is also very bought off.

Now about Michael Chrichton.........

Maybe it means more to people who have served.

Kahn, I apologize for not getting back to your query about my service background. I did in fact serve in the Air Force during the last years of the Viet Nam War. While I never set foot in SE Asia, I did requisition parts and delivered them to the flight line or hangars where mechanics made aircraft flight ready. Not a glamorous job or a dangerous one, but that was my small part in it.

I will tell you it was not a decision I made voluntarily, but since my draft lottery number came up 9, it was a better option than dying in a rice paddy a world away.

Having said that I still stick with America the Beautiful.

No one likes war...NO ONE. Sometimes it is necessary.

Exactly. Which is why I propose we celebrate the beauty of our nation in our anthem. Not bombs that we all agree no one likes.

Mark:

Lindzen's clunky "I am not a shill!" defense quickly evaporates upon closer look. According to Ross Gelbspan's Boiling Point book, Lindzen received $2,500 a day to consult with coal and oil interests here and abroad in the 1990s, a fact Lindzen does not refute.

Ash....can you prove this expert is "bought off" as you suggest? And when you're done with that homework assignment, can you the go through all the others that also say there simply isn't enough data to know what is really going on and show where they are bought off too.

If you can't, then really what you're doing is simply libeling this person. You're tearing this person down because he doesn't agree with you. I remember the libs getting awfully ticked off about the Swift Boat Veterans and others...are you saying to us you are doing the same thing that you constantly bitch about? It sure looks like it.

See above.

Ash...America the Beautiful mentions God several times....your ilk would never allow it to be sung in the public squard. In fact, I'm stunned you even mentioned it. The looney left has tried to get rid of everything that says God, including the pledge of allegiance.

So, have you seen An Inconvinient Truth?

America the Beautiful mentions God several times....your ilk would never allow it to be sung in the public squard.

You know what happens when you assume. I personally have no problem with including the word G*d in songs and I said the Pledge of Allegience every day of my elementary school life. I am still respectful of every mans faith. Be it Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Native American, etc.

God Blesses the world.

Ash,

Fair enough. But I think that most people would be even more impressed with The Star-Spangled Banner if they read a little on the history of the weeks preceding the battles in Baltimore (both on the shore and the British attack on the fort). It was a major victory at a time when we well could have been forced back under British rule.

America the Beautiful is a pretty song - admittedly. But The Star-Spangled Banner is much more inspirational. It reminds you that this freedom we enjoy is not guaranteed or necessarily permanent. Our rights will have to be fought for and bled for from time to time.

"the word G*d"??????

"America the Beautiful is a pretty song - admittedly. But The Star-Spangled Banner is much more inspirational. It reminds you that this freedom we enjoy is not guaranteed or necessarily permanent. Our rights will have to be fought for and bled for from time to time." Posted by: Kahn

Well said, Kahn. I agree!
:)

And Ash,

God blesses the world-and Iraq.

Ash,

And just who is Ross Gelbspan? As I had never heard of him until your post, I decided to check.

Well, he is the author of two books on global warming - rather alarmist books; books which claim there is a giant conspiracy by to fossil fuels industry to subvert politics and journalism in order to hide the truth about global warming.

Unfortunately for Gelbspan, he's not a climatologist, so he's entirely reliant upon others to tell him what is happening...and he seems to have only chosen those who will put the problem in the worst possible light; lacking the personal knowledge to know when he's having his leg pulled, it is silly to think that he's got it right.

He's also a bit of a fraud - he claims to be a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist when he never actually won the Prize.

You'll have to do better than a fraudulent former MSMer with no science expertise if you want to take someone like Lindzen down a peg or two.

Unfortunately Ash, too many jagoffs on your side of the political spectrum want GOD (not G*d) removed from everything (money, the classroom, pledge of allegiance, court rooms, etc).

I'm happy as a clam that you believe in it, unfortunately the crazy idiots that you side with on nearly every other issue do not.

Now again, where is it that you believe this MIT professor (you know..MIT..that "hick" third rate school) has been bought off? I'm waiting.

Who to believe...who to believe. An award winning scientist from MIT or Al Gore who "created the Internet"....yes, who to believe. LOL

It's intresting that Ash uses Mr. Gelbspan (a journalist, not a climatologist) to back up his claim becaue Mr. Lindzen was paid to do research (something that happens daily in all academic circles).

What is breathtakingly staggering (heavy sarcasm here) is that Ash does not acknowledge that scientists claiming global warming receive funds from parties that support their theories.

Apparently that wasn't worth sharing. LOL

It's intresting that Ash uses Mr. Gelbspan (a journalist, not a climatologist) to back up his claim becaue Mr. Lindzen was paid to do research (something that happens daily in all academic circles).

What is breathtakingly staggering (heavy sarcasm here) is that Ash does not acknowledge that scientists claiming global warming receive funds from parties that support their theories.

Apparently that wasn't worth sharing. LOL

This should give you an idea of how "sound" Mr. Ross Gelbspan is

------

"According to Ross Gelbspan's Boiling Point book...."

Ah, that's where you got off the track. Gelbspan is a kook who plays fast and loose with the truth. For example, on page 43 he claims:

"The result of the 2000 election was due--in significant measure--to Bush's victory in West Virginia, a state no other Republican presidential candidate had ever won."

Really? Gelbspan means that no other Republican presidential candidate had ever won West Virginia, except: Ronald Reagan in 1984, Richard Nixon in 1972, Herbert Hoover in 1928, Calvin Coolidge in 1924, Warren Harding in 1920, Charles Hughes in 1916, William Taft in 1908, Teddy Roosevelt in 1904, William McKinley in 1900... I think you get the point.

A shill...oh really!

-------

The skeptics bristle at the idea that industry support affects their work.

"It is completely irrelevant as to who supports the work of these people," said Virginia atmospheric scientist S. Fred Singer, who says he gets no more than 10 percent of his income from the coal and oil industry.

And Michaels scoffed at the idea that the coal and oil industry could counter the $2.3 billion spent annually on climate research by the US government.

"If three guys at about $25,000 a year [in income from the fossil fuel industry] can beat back $2.3 billion, those guys must have an awfully cogent argument," said Michaels in 1995, referring to himself and two other global warming critics.

Warrior,

But global warming is for sure, and humans are for sure the cause of it, and the US is the main cause of the human cause - for sure! Don't you know that there is a Consensus about it? Didn't you see that day the climatoligists all voted and it was determined that 173.5% of them agreed with Greenpeace on global warming?

My church here in Virginia has a large military presence. So much that every Memorial Day Sunday we have music that thanks and acknowledges Gods great gifts to America.

We honor our military families with the Armed Forces medley sung by the choir and members of the respective forces stand when their song is sung. I get a chill in my spine when I witness this.

So many of the mainstream churches reject any sort of patriotism and in doing that reject the families of the men and women that serve to protect the right these churches have to stay open and worship without interference.

God Bless America!

Posted by: Porter Jervis at July 2, 2006 07:37 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Porter, My church also has a good military presence, active & non! We have men who flew bombing missions over Germany, and men who crawled thru holes in vietnam! We also have enough young military men from all branches but the coast guard! I have the distinct pleasure & honor of leading the color guard! We use one man from each branch and present & post colors on as many holidays as possible! I can say there is rarely a dry eye during the national anthem & presenting of the colors! My wife is an accomplished trumpet player & she & I do military funeral quite often! Talk about tearing up, it's hard to fold the flag during "Taps"!

God blesses this country & uses this country to bless other countries ASH! God, continue to bless America, regardless of the unbelievers in our presences, & may you draw them unto you!

But global warming is for sure, and humans are for sure the cause of it, and the US is the main cause of the human cause - for sure!

I suppose this is some sort of immature and smart alecky sarcasm. Do you deny that humans are at all responsible for global warming? Do you deny that reducing CO2 emissions will help air quality?

I'm just wondering-what is the motive for the vast majority of scientists to report that global warming can be reduced by changes in our behaviour?

What do you see as their ulterior motive?

Well, he is the author of two books on global warming - rather alarmist books; books which claim there is a giant conspiracy by to fossil fuels industry to subvert politics and journalism in order to hide the truth about global warming.

And Mark, you can deny this with a straight face?

Ash- I appreciate your service to this great country, whose birthday we celebrate tomorrow. As we are engaged, currently, in a great debate about another war, it seems seemly to name a few of our current and past leaders who either didn't serve due to physical disabilities, or who got special deferments:
Karl Rove-didn't serve
Dick Cheney-5 deferments-never served
Rick Santorum-didn't serve
George Allen-didn't serve
Giuliani-didn't serve
N. Gingrich-didn't serve
B. Frist-didn't serve
D. Hastert-didn't serve
M. McConnell-didn't serve
R. Blunt- didn't serve
Jeb Bush-didn't serve
J. Kyl-didn't serve
R. Reagan-made movies-phys unable to serve
S. Chambliss-didn't serve
T. Delay-didn't serve
J. Doolittle- didn't serve
JC Watts- didn't serve
J. Cornyn- didn't serve
J. Ashcroft- didn't serve
Well, running out of room here, but you get the point. The current crop of Conservatives have no problem sending others to war and attacking the patriotism of others over the flag amendment, but have little experience serving in war themselves.

Ummmmmmm.....and your point is what kritter? Oh I get it, since those of us whom have served in the military don't find it useful to critisize those who haven't, you feel it is your duty to stick up for us!LOL Give me a frickin hypocritical break! Oh yah, and they did serve doper, they serve you and I daily as elected officials, oops, sorry! I guess you didn't elect them hence they don't serve you hence the critism & resentment!

Actually, Bearman, I'm sure you saw that my post was addressed to Ash-but ignored that. Anyway its highly doubtful that they are serving me or our country-they are self serving, imo. They do not represent me in any way, shape or form. They are hypocrites who choose to attack others' patriotism, while choosing to avoid the draft themselves (exception R. Reagan-who was physically unable to serve). They have chosen to attack Jimmy Carter, John Murtha, John Kerry, Max Clelland, and other decorated veterans who are this country's true patriots.

Here I'll help kritter with a few names since he his selective amnesia.
b clinton
a gore

But Gore and Clinton are not attacking others for their lack of patriotism, or sending the sons and daughters off to die for their country. Clinton did send troops to Bosnia, but as part of a peace-keeping force due to the regime's genocide. You missed the point.

You listed all conservatives, I got your point exactly.
Tell the people in Bosnia it was a peace keeping mission. That was a war, just like Vietnam.
Sorry, not buying the word games.

But Gore and Clinton are not attacking others for their lack of patriotism, or sending the sons and daughters off to die for their country. Clinton did send troops to Bosnia, but as part of a peace-keeping force due to the regime's genocide. You missed the point.

Posted by: kritter at July 3, 2006 11:22 AM

Please list any & all incidences where these conservatives attacked others for there lack of patriotism. I would like details please! Also it is YOUR OPINION that those are the true patriots in this country, whereas a vet like myself & all the active duty military member view the men you've listed as patriotic men serving the people! It's too bad you libs can't see passed you political agenda! If power is what you want, you better start to be more honest with yourselves first and the people second!

As much as I dislike Al Gore - he DID serve. Unfortunately, I know from Secret Service friends and former military I know who served at the White House that he is largely considered to be an asshole.

Ash...the motive is MONEY!!!! They get grants to study their cookoo ideas and then claim the earth is hurdling for disaster.

Are you this naive? It's MONEY!! Money = grants = "relevance" and job security.

kritter, you can't be serious. Is the requirment now that you have to serve in order to send men/women into battle? I guess that means Hillary Clinton is automatically eliminated from contention then.

People can be patriotic whether they served or didn't serve. I don't believe that is why people are questioning the left's patriotisim. They are questioning it because they are WRONG, not whether they served or not.

Whether they are RIGHT on policy which they are NOT!

Jack Murtha was attacked in the House immediately after he made his first speech breaking with the W.H. on the war. His patriotism was attacked by a freshman Congresswoman (Repub) who didn't know about his service. I've also heard his patriotism questioned on Conservative talk radio by Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Jerry Doyle.(yes, even libs listen to them sometimes)

Kerry's service was attacked in '04 with the Swiftboating smear, which might have made the difference in the election.
I believe the entire reason for pushing the flag burning amendment is to make liberals look unpatriotic right before the election. It was brought up last time by Conservatives -a Rovian strategy, also right before an election. Your way of showing your patriotism may not be the same as a liberal's but it doesn't mean they are any less of a patriotic American. My point was not to insist that anyone who's elected should have a service record, but that all of these Conservative leaders are acting self-righteous about their patriotism on the flag issue and on the war, when none of them has done much except dodge the draft. Orrin Hatch actually said that the flag amendment was the most important issue facing America! A good American is not afraid to voice dissent if he feels his country is going down the wrong path. That is what liberals are doing. You guys gotta admit- there isn't a lot of proud military service in the Republican leadership.

Actually Kritter, there is a ton of service in repub. leadership! It just doesn't help your pathetic attacks so you don't go there!

So what your telling me in your answer to my question, is that you don't have any proof or evidence that the men you listed attacked anyones patriotism? I thought that was a brazen accusation you laid out there! Your gonna have to do better then that! We can type here all day on both sides of the isle about men who haven't served and how we think they are attacking someones patriotism! Doesn't mean that we are right and they are wrong! It cracks me up, you libs want a government of checks & balances as long as it doesn't require you guys to come up with actual evidence of wrongdoing and as long as it doesn't convict your side! Now that's what I call balance! LOL

Yeah, don't forget about the lefties hero, Bill Clinton. You remember, the guy who skipped the country to dodge the draft and then organized protests against America. And you have the nerve to bash conservatives who didn't serve?

Spare me the crap about "sending kids to die", that line is all used out. Did you forget about the 18 soldiers who died in Somalia? The same soldiers who specifically requested armor and air support for the raid, but was turned down by the CLINTON WHITE HOUSE. Clinton's got blood on his hands, and don't you ever forget it.

Bearman- how about posting some hard evidence of the military service of the Republican leadership? Back up YOUR claims!

Let me tell you quickly why I don't need to post "Hard evidence" etc.

"I DON'T GIVE A RATS A.., WETHER THEY HAVE SERVED IN THE MILITARY OR NOT"!

Those who have served don't have a monopoly on "good descision making", and niether do those who have not served!

I would be in as complete & total support for our president and the descisions that have been made over these last three years even if he was a flaming lib(like that would ever happen).

You libs tend to make issues like this one a big deal, when in "The Real World" they really are not! There are no pre-requisites(military service) to becoming a politician and there never should be! That is why I don't give a rats behind! Now I'm going to go recover from an awesome day at the lake! G-night!!!

Bearman-
Well, that was a little rude-but I can only guess from your answer that you are quite embarassed about your party's service record, especially when they try to look so patriotic with their flag amendment and Iraq War resolution. I understand-it is embarassing- especially after the huge deal they made about Bill Clinton's record when he ran for president. I don't remember the opposition saying that only libs made a big deal out of issues like that then. Or did you forget that little detail?

Ash, as a new Coloradan, you might be interested to know that your favorite song was inspired by the view from the top of Pikes Peak.

I,too, used to think it would be a better national anthem than the Star Spangled Banner, being all warm and fuzzy and about purty and all. But after 9/11, when I heard the words to the Star Spangled Banner, I got chills as I recognized the need for the willingess to fight for our country, and since then I have been a strong supporter of it as a symbol of our country. It reminded me of the valor of those who fought to establish the country, and of what would be demanded of those who would be going to war to defend it now.

kritter, the Swift Boat revelations were not smears. They aren't smears if they are true. And they pretty much proved that Kerry could not take them on in a court of law to disprove what they were saying. It is not easy to go up against a peevish, spiteful, man who has pockets as deep as Kerry's. (OK, as TherAYsa's) It was clear that the Swifties were confident because they knew that the best defense against charges of slander and/or libel is that the claims made are true. They KNEW Kerry could not sue, because they knew that he could not afford to get into the legal system where he would be required to testify under oath, endure cross-examination, be forced to provide documents, and be exposed to even more witnesses and testimony than had been brought out by the Swifties.

I doubt that Kerry's service would ever have been an issue, had HE not chosen to run on what he claimed was his war record. I think the Dems probably did not know how shaky that record was when they went along with letting him make it the center of his campaign. I've never known if Kerry had managed to convince himself of his heroism in the intervening years, or if he had just gotten away with it for so long he thought he always could, but HE is the one who brought it up, HE is the one who called attention to it, HE is the one who ran on it, and he has no one to blame but himself.

The Left is always creating false absolutes and then freaking out when they are challenged. Their new favorite is that you have to have military service to be President. If you want proof that military service, even honorable military service, is no indication of military savvy, all you have to do is look at poor pathetic Jack Murtha. Sure, he has a right to his opinion about the war, but to claim that his prior service makes him an expert, or gives him some special insight into tactics and strategy,is simply silly. And his bizarre claim that Marines are guilty of "cold-blooded murder" without even seeing all the evidence or allowing them the normal Constitutional right of being considered innocent until proven guilty is just more proof that the man is over the edge.

And the claim that it was OK to have a president who had dodged military service because he never got us into a war is, simply, stupid. Deeply and profoundly stupid. We have to know that every president we ever elect is capable of leading us in a war. He (or she) has to be capable, and willing, to do so. We can never elect someone who is unqualified to be Commander in Chief and then just count on a peaceful and undemanding term. That is crazy.

So kritter really IS saying that military service is a requisite for the position of President.

Sure, it can be a plus to have served--but only if the service was honorable, and competent. How anyone could think Kerry was qualified to be President after his shameful and disgraceful betrayal of our/his country, through his actions in the Winter Soldier campaign as well as his lying under oath to Congress about invented war atrocities, and his possibly treasonous behavior in illegally traveling to North Viet Nam, twice, to meet with the enemy? Even if he HAD earned all those medals, his behavior later should have automatically disqualified him from ever being considered for the presidency. It's irrational to think that just because he spent some undetermined time in the Navy, and three months of that in Viet Nam, it cancels out his subsequent betrayal of his country and his fellow soldiers and sailors and Marines, on so many levels.

kritter might just as well have listed all the Republicans who didn't pass their driving tests the first time when they were 16, or don't like corn. His list of who did and who did not serve in the military is simply irrelevant. And remember,he and his fellow travelers also reserve the right to determine WHICH military service meets their exacting standards. The National Guard evidently does not, given the derision heaped upon those who are our first line of defense.

And all of this is very funny, coming from a group which despises the military anyway, and has no respect for them or what they do. The only reason they are trying so desperately to establish some sort of military-related credentials now is the knowledge that most of the country wants, and may well demand, a leader who can and will mount a strong defense, and an offense if necessary, in case of future attacks. But they are so ignorant of things military that they are making false connections between irrelevant data, and trying to make it look like it makes sense.