I recently read a summary of an interview w the big 4, oil TANKER execs. These are the guys who MOVE the oil across the pond.

they stated that there was a significant amount in excess of demand being held on tankers. if those floating reserves were all off-loaded, the crude inventories would soar & the price structure would collapse.

wanna bet that aint gonna happen?

wanna bet the DC politicos know this info?

rank market manipulation.

congrats Matt!

Happy 4th everyone!

J. Peter Mulhern at The American Thinker has a brilliant analysis of the Supreme Court Hamdan v. Rumsfeld decision.

I especially liked his summation:

What is to be done about the Hamdan decision? It can be reversed by a statute redundantly granting the President the power to act as Commander in Chief. Senator Specter has already proposed such a statute. But Congress is cumbersome. It will probably quarrel about the limitations and qualifications the statute should contain. It may pass something useless and it may pass nothing at all.

After he gives Congress a decent interval in which to act, President Bush should follow Lincoln’s example. He should just start trying terrorists before military commissions. When he is accused of lawlessness he should explain that the Supreme Court’s decision in Hamdan is not law because the Court lacked jurisdiction to make it. He should go on to say that, with or without jurisdiction, the Court can’t put arbitrary limits on his war powers. The power to “say what the law is” doesn’t justify boldly taking the law where it has no business going.

He could end by paraphrasing President Jackson: “Justice Stevens has made his decision. Now let him enforce it.” (emphasis - mine)

Go read the whole piece. It's short and concise and just nails it.

Retired Spook,

I like it!

If it's good enough for Lincoln, it's good enough for President Bush!!!

AAR

The reaction to the events of this week clearly displays the destructive philosophy of the right.

Hamdan was captured on the battle fields of Afghanistan. A country we were at war with. He is clearly a POW, and accorded the rights of any other POW. Not because he deserves them, but because we are a just and fair nation, and it makes us better people and example to the oppressed people of other nations.

Is Hamdan any more evil than the Nazi tried a Nuremberg?

The Supreme Court made the right decision, but the flame throwers on the right have to spin this as defeat in the fight against terrorisms, and accuse the left with complicity. In truth, this decision will have no effect on the imprisonment or conviction of known terrorists.

The banking scandal is even worst. The bashing of the NY Time is nothing but cheap politicking intended to divide the nation. The Times did nothing wrong. The Swift program has discussed by the President on two occasions (9/01 and 4/04). The program was detailed on the Swift website and in their newsletter to their clients.

The Terrorist already knew. Just like they know that their phones are tapped.

To prove how partisan this is, how come there is no outrage from the right directed towards the Wall Street Journal? They published the exact same story on the exact same day, but the WSJ is a “conservative” paper and the Times is a “liberal” paper.

This is a non story that the right is blowing way out of proportion for political gain at the expense of the American people.

Another frat stunt by the boys:

BEIJI, Iraq - Five U.S. Army soldiers are being investigated for allegedly raping a young woman, then killing her and three members of her family in
Iraq, a U.S. military official told The Associated Press on Friday.

Spook,

I would love to hear Der Leader try and assert his cojones that way, he would be in a brig quicker than a snot-greased doorknob.

And AAR, don't ever make the moronic mistake of confusing Lincoln with Bush, Bush never has, and never will be the man Lincoln was.

Spook, Lincoln? Why think small? How about using Jackson as the model. Bush could frog march the detainees, ala trail of tears, from one end of Cuba to the next. After about one week, there would be no need for Gitmo.

“Justice Stevens has made his decision. Now let him enforce it.”

Actually, the US Supreme Court made this decision.

And, with all due respect to President Jackson, this seems the kind of statement by a US president that would make the founding fathers bristle.

Ahhh........more military hatred spewing from Blarney.

OhioOrrin

Prices will decline but as we all know it will be slowly. After hearing this news I finally sold my energy stocks I bought back in 2003. Hell, I bought 500 shares of Halliburton basically just in spite of the left wing kooks at $30 a little over 3 years ago and sold it for $74 today.

Remember, it's the oil traders that bid up the price, while this may continue a little longer my bet is that gas prices fall to around $2 a gallon in the next 3 months

USA TODAY admits they got the NSA story wrong (or lied about it).

-----------

WASHINGTON (AP) -- USA Today acknowledged in a "note to our readers" Friday that it could not establish that BellSouth or Verizon contracted with the National Security Agency to provide it with customer calling records, as it previously reported.

But spokesman Steve Anderson said "this is an important story that holds up well. At the heart of our report is the fact that NSA is collecting phone call records of millions of Americans."

"What we address in the editors' note," he said, "deals with the fact that we originally reported that the telephone companies were working under contract with the NSA. We've concluded that we cannot establish that BellSouth or Verizon entered into a contract with the NSA to provide the bulk calling records."

In an accompanying story, the newspaper reported Friday that lawmakers on House and Senate intelligence committees have said that while the NSA has amassed a huge database calling records, cooperation with the NSA by telephone companies was not as extensive USA Today initially reported on May 11.

USA Today at that time reported that, according to its sources, AT&T Inc., BellSouth Corp. and Verizon Communications Inc. all agreed to provide the agency with domestic call records. The newspaper said Friday that Verizon and BellSouth deny they contracted to provide the NSA with records of their customers' phone calls. AT&T has neither confirmed nor denied the newspaper's report.

Some lawmakers briefed on the program said NSA has a database of domestic calls that includes numbers called and the length of conversations, but not what was said. Five members of the intelligence committees said they'd been told by intelligence officials that AT&T, the nation's largest telecommunications company, did cooperate in providing NSA with call records.

Five lawmakers on the intelligence committees said they'd been told that BellSouth did not turn over call records, and three lawmakers said they'd been informed that Verizon did not turn over call records to the NSA.

Lawmakers who support the Bush administration's domestic spying program see the apparent gaps in the database as a problem.

"It's difficult to say you're covering all terrorist activity in the United States if you don't have all the (phone) numbers," Sen. Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., told USA Today. "It probably would be better to have records of every telephone company."

In its note to readers, USA Today vowed to "continue to report on the contents and scope of the database as part of its ongoing coverage of national security and domestic surveillance."

Said Anderson: "There have been no denials that this database exists. Nineteen members of Congress who have been briefed following the May 11 article have confirmed the existence of the database."

USA Today is published by Gannett Co.

Got to love this one.
WASHINGTON - The United States is losing its fight against terrorism and the Iraq war is the biggest reason why, more than eight of 10 American terrorism and national security experts concluded in a poll released yesterday.

One participant, a former CIA official who described himself as a conservative Republican, said the war in Iraq has provided global terrorist groups with a recruiting bonanza, a valuable training ground and a strategic beachhead at the crossroads of the oil-rich Persian Gulf and Turkey.
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/news/world/14926687.htm

I would love to hear Der Leader try and assert his cojones that way, he would be in a brig quicker than a snot-greased doorknob.

Well, TEO, we're back to disagreeing; I knew it wouldn't last. Who, praytell, would be responsible for putting the President in the brig should he tell SCOTUS to pound sand? Quite frankly, I think it would be an interesting confrontation.

How about using Jackson as the model?

I did.

Barney, as you know, I'm not generally into name-calling, but you really are an ignoramus.

Barneyg2000,

As usual, you liberal-progressive Democrats take the side of criminals and terrorists!

Those you call POWs are in fact terrorist murderers and tortures! They are not some poor soldier from the army of a nation that recognizes and honors the Geneva Convention! You liberal-progressive Democrats are more concerned about the "rights" of common terrorists -- blatant murderers and tortures of innocent citizens than they are about the lives of Americans.

And just when did the terrorists sign and start supporting the Geneva Convention. You want to give the murdering terrorists rights of a legitimate army under the Geneva Convention, but you don't even insist they sign up and support it... DO YOU? Just like yours and the your ACLU's misplaced concerns about the rights of criminals over the rights of victims. More of your MISPLACED loyalty and concerns!

Geneva Convention. Isn't there something in there about the way OUR prisoners are to be treated? If you liberal-progressives are going to give terrorists killers the same rights as legitimate armies and soldiers, don't you think you should insist your terrorist warriors should also honor the Geneva Convention and stop carving up our soldiers into pieces? Why aren't you complaining about the murdering terrorists not treating their prisoners in accordance with the Geneva Convention, and only concerned about their rights?

Where's the liberal-progressive Democratic outrage at the terrorists for carving up, butchering, and mutilating our two soldiers recently. Not much outrage there. I don't think your liberal press covered that for more than a few days. Now, it's all but for gotten by you liberals! I guess that's not covered by the Geneva Convention.

Have you forgotten those four American's hanging on the bridge? Have you forgotten about the other torture and beheadings performed by your friendly Geneva Convention loving terrorists? Have you forgotten what the terrorists do to THEIR PRISONERS? Why don't you show some interest at getting the REAL MURDERS AND TORTURERS to follow YOUR Geneva Convention. STOP TAKING SIDES WITH THE ENEMY on every single issue!!!

Where's the liberal-progressive Democratic outrage at the way terrorists are butchering, beheading, torturing, and killing the innocent Iraqi citizens and those of other nations? Not much outrage there either? I guess that's not covered by the Geneva Convention.

Where's the liberal-progressive Democratic outrage over the constant bombings, killings, and torture of innocent Iraqi families every day. Not much Democrat outrage there either. I guess that's not covered by the Geneva Convention.

But let one of our American troops do something that may be wrong or improper BY YOUR GENEVA CONVENTION and we will hear the OUTRAGE form the liberal-progressive DEMOCRATS for months -- as you fan the flames of anti-American hate around the world! And then you have the nerve and gall to try and blame the results of YOUR anti-Bush, anti-American hate propaganda on President Bush!

The reaction to the events of this week clearly displays the destructive philosophy of the liberal-progressive Democrat left.
Read some about those Jihadists in GITMO. Most who remain there can not and will not reform. They will not stop their goal of killing YOU, ME, and ALL Americans. Their home countries don't want them back. We turn them lose and they are right back on the battlefield killing our troops. Next time, maybe they won't be taken prisoner -- at least by American troops!

If I were President Bush, I would do just as Lincoln did.

If I were Congress I would introduce another anti-terrorist bill urging the President to do just that and let the liberal-progressive DimOcrats vote FOR THE TERRORISTS!

And it's time Conservatives, Republicans, and others do start working with flames. It is you liberal-progressives who light the fires in the first place. What's a little more gasoline among friends? Maybe Americans will begin to get the message about the REAL liberal-progressive agenda and how they are destroying America.

If Conservative, Republicans, and others who are opposed to you liberal-progressives don't start standing up for what's right, you will just continue with your insane agenda!

If it's a non-story... then don't worry about it!

AAR

“How about using Jackson as the model?
I did.”
No Spook,

You posted: “After he gives Congress a decent interval in which to act, President Bush should follow Lincoln’s example.”

You quoted Jackson, you did recommend his actions.

Barneyg2000 and TEO,

Just think what would happen if Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Beck, Hedgecock, Savage, Dobson, (maybe O'Reilly), and the thousands of other Conservative Talk Show hosts were to take a unified approach and send out a call to their listeners!

In fact, I don't understand why they don't all start working together on those issues where most of them do agree. We solve those first, and work on the others later.

I guess I need to e-mail Rush and Sean and suggest that sometime in the future they start taking more of a leadership role and coordinate and direct the efforts of their listeners.

Sure would be interesting!

AAR

“Those you call POWs are in fact terrorist murderers and tortures! They are not some poor soldier from the army of a nation that recognizes and honors the Geneva Convention! You liberal-progressive Democrats are more concerned about the "rights" of common terrorists -- blatant murderers and tortures of innocent citizens than they are about the lives of Americans.”

Did the Japs adhere to the Geneva Convention? What about the Nazi and the concentration camps? Were they less monsters than al qeada? We adhere to the Geneva Convention because we gave our word, and that makes us better humans. The terrorist can kill some of us, they can destroy some of our property, but they can never defeat our ideas. Only the right wing can do that.

Barneyg2000,

KEEP SUPPORTING THOSE TERRORISTS!

Keep ignoring their actions. No, no outrage there. Plenty of outrage against Americans though!!!

Now let's hear some calls from you liberal-progressive Democrats for the murdering gang of thugs -- not an army -- to sign up for and abide by the Geneva Convention.

Let's hear that message over and over every day until they do. Let's get those U.N. resolutions and investigations going into their non-compliance.

Is that TOO MUCH TO ASK from you liberal-progressive Democrats?

Yep, I guess it is... because that wouldn't be Bush-bashing and America-bashing!!!

AAR

AAR, here is what one of your own has to say:

Bruce Fein, an official in the Reagan administration, said the ruling restores balance in government. "What this decision says is, 'No, Mr. President, you can be bound by treaties and statutes,' " he said. " 'If you need to have these changed, you can go to Congress.' This idea of a coronated president instead of an inaugurated president has been dealt a sharp rebuke."

Do you want to call him a "America-bashing" liberal terrorist lover?

Barneyg2000,

RE: "The terrorist can kill some of us, they can destroy some of our property, but they can never defeat our ideas. Only the right wing can do that."

Yep, Barney just another day of "policing action"! Isn't that what you Democrats call it. Just another day of killing Americans and destroying their property. No big deal, right?

Let's hope the "right wing" can defeat all of those left wing liberal-progressive ideas along with your worthless agenda!!!

AAR

Wow, sure didn't take long for blarney to accuse our troops before all evidence is out and they've gotten a fair trial. You're right, RS, he is an ignoranus.

Hope everyone has a wonderful 4th. God bless you, President Bush, our troops, and God bless America!

Spook,

I guess it was too good to be true, for too long atleast. LOL

The President has taken an oath to uphold the laws of the US, if the Supreme Court said something was illegal, and he told them to "pound sand", well that would be against the laws of the US, and he would be liable for indictment and then jailed.

TEO,

And just who was it that jailed Lincoln?

AAR

What do vicious America haters like Blarney, Axis, Third eye open, and others do on the 4th of July?

TEO..

You don't have a grasp of the concepts of the formulation of how this government works. The Supreme Court is not a court of FACT you tard. Just because they decide a law is unconstitutional, does not mean the decide the facts of the case. Indeed, if the facts are unclear, they remand the case...

The President of the United States is the chief law enforcement officer in this Country. The Congress writes the laws, and the Supreme Court determines if they are CONSTITUTIONAL. NOT LEGAL OR NOT. Bottomline, a treaty is NOT A LAW...therefore the Supreme Court had no right to review this case to begin with. AND IF CONGRESS wanted to, they could codify that...and the Supreme Court couldn't do a DAMN thing about it.

Why is it that liberals love an activist court? It's because they know they can't win in the court of popular opinion. Further, their faith in an activist court is based on that activism being liberal. If this so called conservative court started legislating from the bench positions they hated, they'd be asking for judicial restraint.

Perhaps you could take a consistent stand on EVEN a philosophy... but I doubt it. You simply don't even know EVERY position you take is based on hating the American People (at least the vast majority that disagree with you about a whole host of issues), hating Bush, and hating the fact that you're buddies have now lost six straight Congressional Elections and two presidential ones...

Must suck to hate reality that much.

CJ,

I'm planning a barbeque to celebrate W.'s smackdown by the courts. Dontcha just love this country with it's checks and balances?

I love America as much as anybody. Not W's vision of it however. Now what's more patriotic than expression your opinion? Those of you who claim we dissenters are traitors are the ones that need to inspect your patriotism.

AAR,

You're not real bright are you?

"John Marshall has made his
decision, now let him enforce it."

--this was said by Pres. Andrew Jackson, not Lincoln, He was resisting the SCOTUS in regards to allowing Cherokee to stay on their land, and not have Georgia remove them; this has nothing to do with the banter Spook and i were engaging in with regards to what would happen if Bush told the SCOTUS to "pound sand" in regards to not upholding the laws of today's US. If he refused to uphold those laws, I doubt there would be much of a fight between anyone and the police.

In 1832, the US was a far different place than it is today, does that answer your question, darlin'?

Cj, I will read the Declaration of Independence to a Christian boys association and than march in the 4rth of July parade.

Other than that, I have tickets to Saturdays Sox/Cubs game. Maybe some time at the pool, and watching fireworks.

You're right, RS, he is an ignoranus.

Actually, kimberly, I called him an ignoramus, but I like your version better. LOL!!

You quoted Jackson, you did (?) recommend his actions.

Sheesh, Barney, give me a frickin' break.

Have a great Independence Day everyone.

Will,

Hi there sweetheart, nice of you to join in.

If a law is UNCONSTITUTIONAL, that makes it ILLEGAL, capiche?

secondly, you don't read OUR constitution real well, huh?

"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be Supreme Law of the land; and the Judges in every state shall be bound thereby, any thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding."

--So, as you can plainly see, if we enter into a treaty, which the Geneva convention is, then we are bound to uphold its laws, whether federal or local laws. So basically, TREATIES ARE LAW, supreme law according to the constitution.

Those founding fathers were smart guys.

Lastly, If it helps you reconcile your imaginary world, and the real world, then fine, believe i hate everyone or everything, or America, or whatever you will; but the truth is I love my country enough to follow its laws and conventions, and not let my emotions get in the way, is that cryatal?

Chris Leben has discovered a whole new level of competition.

Rashad Evans couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag, but he'd be very good at laying on top of one.

Andrei Arlovski will submit Sylvia in the 1st round of the rematch.

TEO,

No TEO, it doesn't!

RE: "After he gives Congress a decent interval in which to act, President Bush should follow Lincoln’s example."

RE: "The Supreme Court tried to get in President Lincoln’s face during the Civil War. In particular, Chief Justice Roger Taney took a dim view of the President’s decision to suspend the writ of habeas corpus. Justice Stevens and his cohorts would do well to remember that disagreement. Lincoln politely told the Taney Court to pound sand."

My question was: "And just who was it that jailed Lincoln?"

I think the answer would be -- no one!

Now I'll admit that I am quoting from the linked American Thinker article, and I haven't had the time to research all of the related facts. I'll admit too that I may have missed something.

Are you saying that Lincoln didn't do as the quote says?

As to Andrew Jackson, well I guess that's another example!

You really think the police are going to arrest President Bush?

I guess you want him turned over to The Hague for trial!

AAR

AAR,

I would be happy with Clinton and Bush sitting side by side in the Hague, but we don't recognize the ICC, and our congress will never allow for an American leader to be charged with War Crimes, so it is wishful thinking

TEO,

You got that one right... "our congress will never allow for an American leader to be charged with War Crimes, so it is wishful thinking [on the part of the Democrats who would probably give it a try if they controlled Congress]!"

Now, back to my other questions:

"And just who was it that jailed Lincoln?"

"Are you saying that Lincoln didn't do as the quote says?"

AAR

The New York Times now prints the location of the Summer homes of Cheney and Rumsfeld. Unbelievable. Where they shop, where the hidden cameras are, etc, etc.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1658602/posts

What a disgusting group of people

The CHANGING TIMES video

Check it out and email to friends

Here's the link

"The New York Times now prints the location of the Summer homes of Cheney and Rumsfeld."

Payback is hell, eh warboy?

BTW I plan on being in that area in the near future. Emmmm!

"The terrorist can kill some of us, they can destroy some of our property, but they can never defeat our ideas. Only the right wing can do that."

I agree Barney. In fact they are well on their way.

As of right now, NASA says the space shuttle launch is a go for tomorrow! WOO-HOO! Happy Fourth of July astronauts!
:)

Would anyone like to buy some honey, fresh honey in august this year?

If so, feel free to email me with your request!!

Jeremiah

Anyone like to buy some fresh honey this august?

If so email me for your request.

Jeremiah

Ash.
Sorry, no smack down for the President this time. He can now operate the trials as Commander and Chief and those laws give him different latitude . The Supreme Court does not make law. As for destroying your ideals.
Naw, you'll always do just fine in North Korea.

Barney.
I am so glad your going to be reading the Declaration of Independence on the 4th. Your finally getting it!
So please do read it on the 4th, and understand the strength of those words set forth, the beauty of their plea and the elegance of their stand, and understand, you are reading our first Declaration of War!

Burr,

Poetic man; why don't you get a rifle and stand by the beach, look real hard for the Jihadis.

Kisses, punkin'

Payback is hell? So you condone the NY Times printing where leaders live? You are a pathetic ash-hole, there is no other way to put it.

Exactly what is the payback for? The fact the entire country realizes what a total joke the NY Times is?

'fraid so burr. as far as making (up) laws, neither does the executive branch. now stick out your knuckles again, W.

$10 million bribe tied to UN Chief.

Color me shocked...wow, you mean the UN...the arbiters or truth and justice worldwide are again tied to corruption? Was that the culture of corruption that Pelosi was referring to?

The UN...what a joke.

Ash...the Congress will pass a new law regarding military tribunals in a matter of weeks. And then you will have to go crawl in your hole again and find another thing to join terrorists in your pursuit of happiness.

This July 4th weekend, you and terrorists are celebrating. Congratulations.

Indeed, it seems that everything that the terrorists have to celebrate are being celebrated by the many lib posters on this board.

Quite telling......

TEO,

If we were to capture a terrorist whom we know has information about a planned attack which will destroy your home town and will kill your family, what do we do? Do we "read him his rights", get him a good ACLU lawyer, and put him in a cushy jail cell with a television set so he can watch the upcoming destruction?

Or, knowing that your family will be killed along with your friends and relatives living in your home town, do we permit some "aggressive" interrogation techniques? Would you allow interrogations that include: ...the use of extended sleep deprivation? ...unbearably loud and irritating music? ...the terrorist to be kept nude and "embarrassed" in an unbearably cold room? ...flushing a copy of the Koran down the toilet? ...firing a pistol next to his head and allowing him to believe the next will not miss? ...allowing a vicious dog to bark only inches away from his face? ...other techniques as necessary to save the lives of your family and your town?

Your answer is.........?

Now, let's say that, based on information from one of our [still] secret NSA programs, we learn about a planned terrorist attack on a major American city -- probably either New York City, Los Angeles, Washington D.C., or San Francisco. We know that the planned attack will likely destroy a major portion of New York City or one of the others will likely kill a million innocent Americans. We have captured a terrorist leader who knows the details of the planned attack. Do we "read him his" rights and get him a good ACLU lawyer while he rests comfortably in a jail cell?

Or, knowing that a major portion of New York City will be destroyed and a million people killed, do we permit some "very aggressive" interrogation techniques? Do we allow our interrogators to use the sleep deprivation, loud music, cold and warm temperatures, barking dogs, flushing Korans, firing pistols, and other techniques to save New York City and it's residents? If that does not work, do we allow our interrogators use "even more aggressive interrogation techniques", possibly chopping off a finger or two, to get the information we need to save New York City? Or, do we say "the rights of that terrorist" are more important that New York City and the lives of a million Americans?

Oh, and consider the ramifications to the entire world and billions of people if New York City is destroyed!

Your answer is.........?

AAR

Mark,

The purpose of this post is: 1) to let you know I am still having all sorts of problems with the "server error" screens, and 2) to try to get my last post to "magically appear" from wherever it is right now.

I posted some questions to TEO at July 1, 2006 09:59 A.M. and got one of the usual blue server error screens. I did not re-post, but rather hit the "review" icon while still logged in using TypeKey. My post shows up, so I know it is there somewhere -- possibly in a queue.

If I click on the comments normally, however, my comments do not show up. If I log in using TypeKey and hit preview again, the comment is there. The last post that shows on my screen is the one from July 1, 2006 12:50 A.M. It is now July 1, 2006 2:22 P.M.

Normally when this happens, the "queued comment" will appear after another comment "manages" to successfully post. Hopefully, this comment will make it through and do the job.

AAR

Mark,

It worked! Both of my comments are now there.

One thing I forgot to mention, the counter had already been updated to reflect 48 comments; although, only 47 were in fact showing. The 48 figure included my message to TEO that was there but which not show when viewing comments in the normal manner. The count now correctly reflects 49 after my last comment to you posted that "freed up" the post to TEO.

Perhaps this information would be useful to your technical personnel who are researching the problem. If it would help your technicians research the problem, I could write up all of my observations on the problem, to include those I posted several days ago when I suggested using "preview" after the "server error posting error" and before "re-posting" to avoid double posts. (I know this paragraph is somewhat confusing.)

AAR

"The fact the entire country realizes what a total joke the NY Times is?"

You've lost any credence you never had to begin with war boy. It is the third largest newspaper in the country by circulation. It is acknowledged as the paper of record.

Nope those Buker Journal and Killem Daily you read don't cut much cheese.

Payback for the all out war this administration has called on a free press.

Ash...the Congress will pass a new law regarding military tribunals in a matter of weeks. And then you will have to go crawl in your hole again and find another thing to join terrorists in your pursuit of happiness.

And that's all I asking -bomb em first ask questions later freak- accountability. And we have achieved it. Smackdown of the Bush dictatorship. Victory on this one for our side. (Democracy) If you and your ilk would stop creating a world full of people that hate us, we might not be having this "conversation"

Your answer is.........?

AAR, I think you have watched too much 24. But to answer your question, I'd call Jack Bauer in that hypothetical instance.

And your answer is......?

Bush dictatorship....uhm we had two elections and he won them both. That's not a dictatorship.

And yes, I realize the NY Times has a bunch of cowardly idiots that read the paper daily...but hell there were millions of pussies that voted for John Kerry too, there's always going to be a strain in society that is weak and intolerant...it just happens to be liberals and most democrats (all while preaching they are tolerant..oh the irony).

By the way...how did we create a world where people hate us?

1993 WTC bombing...did Clinton create that world?
2001 9/11 attack...Bush at the helm for only 7 months...did he creat that hatred?

USS Cole, Khobar Towers, embassy bombings...all while Clinton apparently was making people hate us.

Interesting Ash...wow, what a complete idiot you are. Congratulations for stepping in that one.

Ash,

We already know your answer... let the million Americans die along with their city, liberal [progressives] WILL NOT PERMIT their friends -- the terrorists -- to be inconvenienced or embarrassed, let alone "harmed" in any way!

That's why liberal [progressive] Democrats can't be trusted with America's security. You are worried more about the terrorists than the American families -- just as you and the ACLU are more worried about criminals and not their victims! You and the New York Times are more interested in telling our enemies about our defenses rather than protecting Americans. The liberal New York Times are more interested in their liberal news agenda than in protecting our secrets and America from terrorists!

Sure. AFTER the Americans are killed and AFTER the cities are destroyed, you will talk and negotiate with their killers and try to make them understand they mustn’t do that again! You would probably even convene a meeting of the U.N. and demand they "denounce" the killings and destruction... but fight, NEVER!

First we had the "tree huggers". Now we've got the "terrorist huggers"!

How's that "adopt a terrorist program" going?

AAR

Sorry TEO.
Wrong person to preach to! I have had the same job for 34 years, the last 16 in sand.

AAR,

If we know an attack is imminent, then why torture someone to get information that may be clouded or false, and send us on a wild goose chase?

If we are no better than the enemy which we seek to destroy, then what is the point? Once we have the precedent to openly, and viciously torture people, then how long before it becomes common pratice for murder, or rape, or grand theft cases? I mean if we could have just beaten the crap out of Ken Lay, or just cut off a few fingers, maybe the economic destruction he caused could have been avoided; I think that is how Saudi Arabia deals with their criminals, are you advocating we emmulate Saudi Arabia in our civil-criminal proceedings?

TEO,

RE: "If we know an attack is imminent, then why torture someone to get information that may be clouded or false, and send us on a wild goose chase?"

EXACTLY AS I EXPECTED!

You, Ash, and the rest of the liberal [progressives] would PROTECT THE TERRORIST and let New York City, your family, and a MILLION AMERICAN CITIZENS DIE to protect a terrorist!!!

You wouldn't even agree to the option of loud music, sleep deprivation, cold temperatures, etc. That is "torture" to you and unacceptable to save an American city and it's citizens!

Join the liberal [progressive] crowd. EVERY LAST ONE of you think that way!

Well, I can tell you that if I believe I can save New York City -- or YOUR family -- your terrorist friend had better start talking while he still can!!!!!

That's why you liberal [progressives] CAN NOT BE TRUSTED with the LIVES, SECURITY, SECRETS, and DEFENSE of the United States!

Now why don't you make that policy part of the "official" Democratic Party Platform, run on it, and see what happens!

AAR

Something awful strange and pecurious about the way TEO is talking about working with terrorists!!

something strange in the neighborhood~~~~~~~

These Liberals are Dangerous!!

I think we need to send the FBI after TEO!!!!!!

I just can't believe people in AMERICA, of ALL

places, would ACTUALLY work with

TERRORIST'S??????????????????????????????????

IT'S INSANE!!!!!!!!IT'S AN OUTRAGE!!!!!!!

Jeremiah

AAR,

You are making up words to put in my mouth, and while I appreciate you wanting to get into my mouth, lets just be friends, OK?

Lets go back over what was said, shall we?

If you know that terrorists are going to bomb NYC, then you work to foil that plot, you don't base your response on the word of someone who may say anything to stop you cutting off his fingers, that is why every respectable source on the idea of torture says that it isn't a good way to extract factual evidence.

Sleep deprivation, loud music, and other fun and exciting means of breaking down someone's defenses may have their uses, I don't think they fall under the umbrella term, "torture"; waterboarding or placing weights on someone's chest until they can't breath, on the other hand is torture, and will elicit any form of information that the detainee thinks will get the torture to stop, not a very good way of basing your tactical response to a time-sensitive situation on.

Americans eagerly signed the GCs after a bloody and protracted war which caused millions of deaths, and left an entire continent in ruins; I would say that we understood what our national morals were then, and I think we can understand what they are now. We aren't barbarians, we don't cut off people's extremities, and we have a moral high-ground in stating that no matter how vile the creature, we will always afford them the opportunity to rebut the accusations against them, whether it is Saddam, Hitler, or you, everyone gets their day in court, even if the people we are fighting don't take that same action.

You may not think a liberal or progressive can run this country in a manner consistent with providing safety to everyone; well, I can't change your opinion, but half of the nation seems to disagree with you.

TEO = ISLAMO FACIST.

Jehemiah.
Don't worry! It's just the Kool Aid they drink.
Heck, they (lib's) come here because they believe that they are the moral high ground, and we come here so we can call them 'dumbass'.We need each side for the end result.

TEO said--

"If you know that terrorists are going to bomb NYC, then you work to foil that plot, you don't base your response on the word of someone who may say anything to stop you cutting off his fingers, that is why every respectable source on the idea of torture says that it isn't a good way to extract factual evidence."

__________________________________________________

TEO,

ARE YOU CRAZY?!

Let's make this simple!

If some terrorist is planning a plot against America the ONLY justifiable and realistically logical thing to do is:

DON'T TAKE ANY CHANCES.PERIOD!

GOT IT!

No, but wait.. WHAT DO YOU LIBERAL'S WANT TO DO?

You want to give them a trial like some local trash crackpot drive by shooter with a bunch of liberal judges on the bench, and you sit there knowing that they are liars, and then let them go scott free, so they can kill another half million American citizens!! THAT'S CRAZY!!!!!

YOU ARE HELPING TERRORIST'S????????????????

IS THAT POLITICALLY CORRECT...!!NO!!, IS THAT MORALLY CORRECT....NO!!!!!!,IS THAT THE SAFEST THING TO DO,..!!NO!!.., DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR!!!!!!!!............YOU D O N 'T F O O L

A R O U N D W I T H T E R R O R I S T' S

P E R I O D!!!!!!!!

WE CAN'T TAKE ANY CHANCES, TAKE EM OUT AND THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT EM!!!!

I'll say one thing you sure like to play with danger!!! and that's not very smart if you ask me!

Well, I'm like president bush, I get burned once and I learn from it, something you need to do!

you seem to like getting burned?

Did you not feel any compassion or sorrow for the folks of 9/ll?

It's good thing we don't have some kookie liberal in office or America would be in shambles,right now!!

Jeremiah

TEO,

I'd like to share a true accident with you pertaining to the discussion here and how it relates to dealing with terrorist's.

Many years ago here in my state there was a machine known as the arc melter it melted steel in bulk supply by demand, it was operated by atomic energy, and there was a man who was hired to run the highly dangerous piece of equipment, he was the certified operator the only man equipped to do the job, well even though he all he needed to do the job including the know-how to do it, but that did not change the fact that the equipment was still highly dangerous, one day while operating the chute where the steel was dumped in a piece of steel got caught in the chute, so he thought he had enough training and know-it all and made the ultimate fatal mistake by going inside the chute where that piece of steel was and when he freed the piece, he slipped and it pulled him right down into the arc where the steel was melted, the arc literally vaporized the man there was not a trace of his existence.

I bet the man who done this if he was still living would have thought twice before pulling that kind of stunt!

This correlates with what you are talking about by saying give every terrorist a trial, by taking a chance, well you can see what happened to the steel worker there, he took a chance, and look where he ended up!!

Yeah it's alright to give tried and convicted American's a trial, because they have the same rights that you and I have, but still, even they get away scott free!

Why?

Because somebody says give em trial!!

Who are the judges?

Why of course, liberal communist democrats, plotting and pardoning MORE terrorist immigrants!!!!!!!!!

end result?

BINGO! YOUR TERRORIST SUSPECT IS BACK ON THE STREETS!
TO VICTIMIZE YET ANOTHER HARMLESS CITIZEN!!

You know what I say?

Euthanize em, the old fashioned way!!!

Why?

One word, in big letters!!

P-E-A-C-E!

That's what I want and that's what AMERICA wants!

Now that's that cold hard facts, like it or not!

Jeremiah

Jerry,

Sorry I can't read Paranoid.

"Justice Clarence Thomas not only issued a superb dissent dissecting and debunking the majority decision ... but read it from the bench!"

(Reading from the bench is a practice in which Justice Thomas previously had not indulged during his many years on America’s highest court.)

“For the reasons set forth in JUSTICE SCALIA’s dissent, it is clear that this Court lacks jurisdiction to entertain petitioner’s claims, see ante, at 1–11. The Court having concluded otherwise, it is appropriate to respond to the Court’s resolution of the merits of petitioner’s claims because its opinion openly flouts our well-established duty to respect the Executive’s judgment in matters of military operations and foreign affairs. The Court’s evident belief that it is qualified to pass on the ‘[m]ilitary necessity,’ ante, at 48, of the Commander in Chief’s decision to employ a particular form of force against our enemies is so antithetical to our constitutional structure that it simply cannot go unanswered. I respectfully dissent.”

Remove another libreal activist judge from the Supreme Court and perhaps this decision will be reversed!

AAR

TEO,

RE: "Sleep deprivation, loud music, and other fun and exciting means of breaking down someone's defenses may have their uses, I don't think they fall under the umbrella term, 'torture'..."

Yes, it just "might be useful" to stop another attack like 9/11... or one that might be even more deadly and destructive!

Well, TEO, maybe we are making just a little progress here. Perhaps you can work on the rest of your liberal left friends; although, I doubt that you will have any success with rational logic!

As to waterboarding, I'm running a little short of time, but I'll try to touch on that later.

AAR

--Jerry,

Sorry I can't read Paranoid.--
__________________________________________________

You'll think paranoid alright!

When the democrat communist take over!!

You'll find out who's smart and who isn't!!

I just pray that does'nt happen!!

Jeremiah

Jerry,

What is a "FACIST"?

AAR,

Have you ever engaged in, or been privy to a torture that resulted in actionable information, can you quote me something that didn't appear on 24, that shows how someone got good info by torturing someone?

The point is that wearing down people's defenses is useful in trying to extract information, but you always have to juxtapose that with the very real prospect it may be lies, and dis-information they are feeding us, I mean if they are willing to die for a cause, wouldn't they be willing to lie for that cause too?

--Jerry,

What is a "FACIST"?--
__________________________________________________

Someone who lives in America, and fights to help terrorists go free!!

So, what is a FACIST? Well it's quite simple its:

A DERANGED SICKO LIKE YOU!!

Jeremiah

TEO,

RE: "Sleep deprivation, loud music, and other fun and exciting means of breaking down someone's defenses may have their uses, I don't think they fall under the umbrella term, 'torture'..."

"I don't think they fall under the umbrella term, 'torture!'"

AAR

Burr,

Poetic man; why don't you get a rifle and stand by the beach, look real hard for the Jihadis.

Kisses, punkin'

Posted by: Third Eye Open at July 1, 2006 12:36 AM

Blind eye, You have no clue who's protecting your a..! Try to think......before opening thy mouth! I know it's quite a challenge, but even italian/cuban hunks *smooch* can be smart!

"The terrorist can kill some of us, they can destroy some of our property, but they can never defeat our ideas. Only the right wing can do that."

I agree Barney. In fact they are well on their way.

Posted by: Ash at June 30, 2006 06:23 PM

God, I hope we defeat your Ideas! If we don't, we are in for a world of hurtin!!!