Amendments discussed, debated and defeated.

Now, will these anti-troop, anti-USA people get on our team and allow us to win this thing so we, in fact, CAN bring our troops home?

Warriornation,

How do you propse bringing them home when we don't even know when we have won?

Oh please TEO. When the Iraqi government is strong enough to stand on their own, when violence is contained, etc...then it's over.

You make this sound like it's difficult to know when we've won, it's not.

Would be interesting to know who voted for pulling out. It could be like holding a stick of lit dynamite come election time, trying to disown it but with no way to get ride of it.

Would also be interesting to know who voted to stay (today) but has repeatedly called for us to leave (yesterday / tomorrow) like a fish on land... flip, flop.

Isn’t this the second (landslide) vote on the subject? Do we need to do this again or does everyone understand what’s at stake to pull out without completing the task?

How do we quantify when they can "stand on their own"?

if the threshold is no/little violence, then any nutjob with a bomb can keep us there indefinately.

They elected a government, we build them a police force and an army, we killed Zarqawi...what else can we do for them, man?

This is really a victory for sanity.

GOP more of the same campaign tour '06!

sit and watch!
hope and pray!

and finally my favorite: STAY THE COURSE

bloviators campaign, surrender and break out the burkas

CJ,

I think you'de look cute in a burka, maybe a nice pink one, with tassles

xoxoxo

TEO - A burka fetish? Kinky.

TEO - A burka fetish? Kinky.

Something strikes me as funny: A couple of weeks ago, Harry Reid-tard, the minority leader in the Senate, the man who looks like the undertaker in a western movie, was on the floor of the Senate, whining about how the Republicans were wasting time debating gay marriage, when there were more important things for the Senate to do than waste time on a bill that was doomed to fail.

Hello? We've had the Kerry bill, and a Levin bill, both dead on arrival. Two extreme wastes of time, yet the DemocRATs wasted taxpayer money debating them.

There is an important issue out there right now, and that's what is going to be done about the brutality waged on those two soldiers? And where's the outrage from the Dems, or the DBM?
This is outrageous! I heard Newt on Hannity's show today, and he is pissed! He wants these barbarians found and killed. And so do I. I'm outraged. I want revenge!!!

I've asked before, and I'll ask again... Can anyone tell me the metrics for measuring success? Is it number of violent attacks per day falling below a certain level, employment climbing above a certain level, oil production above a certain level... what is it?

For all the time you spend saying the Democrats have no plan, all you've offered are rhetorical statements. Without any real definition of what victory looks like, I can only assume that your strategy is "Stay there forever."

There's a lot of debate among Democrats as to the proper course of action for Iraq. Where we're united is that we don't think that platitudes from Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld are a solution.

I don't think we can pull out, but that doesn't change my feeling that we shouldn't be there in the first place. It doesn't mitigate the incompetence with which the whole adventure has been handled. It doesn't excuse those who need to be held accountable for what they have wrought.

"Stay the course" is not a plan for victory. It's a bumper sticker.

Shotgun Dick said today;"It dosen't matter where we go. And it will continue--whether we complete the job or not in Iraq--only it'll get worse". With that gibberish Cheney wants us to think that our only choice is to attack everywhere at once and kill or arrest anyone who disagrees with us. Paranoia, as an election gimmick? That's the way to raise the level of dialogue. Peace

keefer wants revenge? Why don't you just look up an Iraqi-sounding last name in your telephone book and go kill two of them? Try to lean towards a Sunni name, or else you might kill a Shia by mistake. Hey, it happens all the time in Iraq. But that should satisy that gut feeling of "revenge" you carry around despite the Judeo-Christian ethic expressed in Romans 12:19 "Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,'says the Lord. To the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

Don't you hate all that LIBERAL gibberish in the Bible? And these anti-troop troops like Sgt. 1st Class George Wozniak, 36, who said of Murtha: "He's definitely for a strong military and he definitely supports the troops" in THIS ARTICLE. He's OBVIOUSLY anti-USA. How dare he express an opinion. Our soldiers should just keep killing until they are told to stop. Right?

The Democrats cry, whine and slobber on themselves but when it's crunch time they lack the guts to vote for withdrawal. Are there really people out there that trust and believe these nitwits?

Jon Parker...you've read the DNC talking points, congratulations.

Now, please list exactly what has been "incompetent" about this war?

Before you start, let me offer a few successes:

WMD found...check
Saddam Hussein gone...check
Democratic elections held...check
New Iraqi Democratic government elected...check
Constitution (provisional) enacted...check
Iraqi security forces trained and growing in numbers daily...check

Etc, etc.

Now, I'm sure you will say "lots of money spent and 2500 Americans dead". Yup...wars cost money and lives. Always have and always will. That's called the price we pay and the sacrifice we endure.

TEO I know you're not this stupid. You can't be. When their gov't feels secure enough to stand on their own AND when our gov't feels they are secure enough to stand on their own.

Pulling out now and creating that vacuum would be morally wrong.

congressive

Keefer doesn't know how to show compassion toward others. He does, however, understand how to negate truthful opinions express by those who do.

He's top-notch at name calling though; it's his speciality. I guess it's easier to call someone a name than to debate an honest argument.

*Chuckles*

I'm sorry Canadian but did you just say it's easier to call someone a name then to debate an honest argument? Umm... I'm going to let that one go, but I'm sure others won't. Probably something along the lines of pots and kettles but hey, who knows?

I'm glad there won't be a legislated time table enacted right now. Personally I don't think it's congress's job to decide when we leave or anything military for that matter. It's not in their purview or area of influence. If they want to cut funding, go ahead and let them try that's their power.

If our guys on the ground think we need to still be there we should still be there. If they start seeing that the Iraqi's are doing the job then they'll start pulling back as needed.

Warriornation,

You still haven't given any plan for exit, what happens if they don't feel ready in 20 years, will we stay and keep fighting their battles?

How long are you prepared to sit and let our guys and girls be used as target practice, their Army and Police are corrupt and ineffective against an insurgent battle, what happens when the people have enough and start clammoring for an Al-Sistani or Sadr to become their strong-man and quell the violence? What will we say when one day we wake up to find 100,000 people marching on the greenzone?

Nice strawman TEO.

I don't play in fairyland concepts. It's not going to last 20 years and we certainly wouldn't allow it to go much more than a few years.

Equally as stupid is to pull a John Kerry and give a date certain. I mean this guy ran for POTUS...how stupid is he.

As long as we keep making successful gains, the government is given a chance (they've been around for 3 weeks...could we give them a bit longer) and allow their security forces to come up to speed, I suspect you will see a gradual draw down as has been expressed by Casey and Bush for over a year now.

But if you tell the terrorists all you have to do is keep "hanging on" for another year or another 2 years or another 3 years then that's what they will do. If you leave it wide open, you wear them down.

That is, of course, if the left in this country is willing to win a war and not side with the terrorists every step of the way and allow themselves to be a 24/7 recruiting tool on Al Jazeera. Liberals have done more to push recruiting on that station in the last 2 years then anything I can imagine.

"Hang in there terrorists, just a little longer. We're doing everything we can here to rip down support for the war and will trash Bush 24/7...just hang in there a little longer"

It's pathetic!! In your diatribes to "save American lives" you end up costing more of them because you embolden the enemy. You guys did the same thing in Nam and I cannot believe I am seeing it again 30 years later with you people. It's staggering.

This would NOT be my plan

Nice link, congressive; I'm sure there are a lot of soldiers who feel that way. There are a lot who feel otherwise. However, the problem with people like yourself, and Canadian Drug-monkey, is that you don't understand war. Also, you're quick to piss and moan about panties on a prisoner's head at Abu Grhaib, but indifferent when our guys are really tortured.

Yes, I want revenge; I want the animals who did this to our guys to pay with their lives. You can go pray for the bastards all you want.

Canadian Horse Junkie, pot/kettle. Go Cheney yourself, punk...

TEO, why are you against the Military deciding what a military operation should look like?

Cutting and Running is not the answer

*Chuckles* I knew keefer would zip one in there. ;)

I've got a little question for ya Third. Are you glad we're finally out of Germany? How about all that base moving and possible expansion in Japan?

My point is, that even when we think they're good enough and will work out on their own we'll still probably have a major presence over there. Yes, for 20 years or more. Though we will start scaling down as is required by those in the field, not by someone on the otherside of the globe.

Anyone see where the widow of Luther Parks died today...murdered. The Clinton cabal is at it again.

"7/20/98 Michael Reagan "...The night Foster died, a man named Jerry Luther Parks was watching TV in his Little Rock home when a news bulletin announced Foster's death. Parks turned pale. "I'm a dead man," he whispered. For weeks after Foster's death, he lived in fear, constantly watching his back, and even taking a gun with him when he went to the mailbox. On Sunday, September 25, 1993 -- two months after the Foster death -- Jerry Luther Parks was returning home from a restaurant when a white Chevy Caprice with two men pulled up alongside his car. The passenger sprayed Parks' car with semiautomatic gunfire, then jumped out and finished Parks off with a 9 mm handgun. The killers were never apprehended. Parks had been a player in Bill Clinton's Arkansas political machine for years, and first became acquainted with Foster by doing investigative work for the Rose Law Firm in the 1980s. The London Telegraph's Ambrose Evans-Pritchard reports that in the late '80s, Foster -- apparently on behalf of Hillary Clinton -- hired Parks to do surveillance on Bill Clinton "to gauge exactly how vulnerable her husband would be to charges of philandering" if he ran for president. Parks accumulated thick files (with photographs) detailing the future president's pattern of womanizing. According to Parks' widow, Foster called Parks from Washington about a week before his death, saying Hillary was frantic about those files and the potential damage they could cause both Bill and Hillary. Just a day or two before his death, Foster called Parks again, heatedly demanding the files. Parks refused. A week or so after Foster's death, the Parks home was broken into -- a sophisticated burglary in which phone lines and the alarm system were disabled. The files were stolen. Two months later, Parks was murdered…."

Now Mrs. Parks new husband also murdered. Looks like Hillary is tying up loose ends before she tries to make her run.

We have a job to do; let's stop bitching and finish it.

Georgia....fantastic. Tell your side to SHUT THE HELL UP so we can!

Interesting that John Kerry was against Cutting and Running before he was for it.

What a surprise...

---------

While Democrats bristle at Republican descriptions of their Iraq policy as "cut and run," Sen. John Kerry, the author of a bill defeated today in the Senate, used that very term to criticize President Bush's consideration during the 2004 election campaign of a timetable for withdrawal.

In a December 2003 speech at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York City, the Massachusetts Democrat said he feared that "in the run-up to the 2004 election, the administration is considering what is tantamount to a cut-and-run strategy," notes Townhall.com writer Tim Chapman.

"Their sudden embrace of accelerated Iraqification and American troop withdrawal dates, without adequate stability, is an invitation to failure," Kerry said in his 2003 speech. "The hard work of rebuilding Iraq must not be dictated by the schedule of the next American election."

Kerry said it "would be a disaster and a disgraceful betrayal of principle to speed up the process simply to lay the groundwork for a politically expedient withdrawal of American troops. That could risk the hijacking of Iraq by terrorist groups and former Ba'athists."

Today, the Senate voted down two proposals to set a timetable for troop withdrawal.

Kerry's plan to require the administration to withdraw all combat troops from Iraq by July 1, 2007, with redeployments beginning this year, was rejected by an 86-13 vote. Later, the Senate voted 60-39, mostly along party lines, against a nonbinding resolution to urge the administration to begin withdrawing troops, but without a timetable.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said withdrawal is "not an option."

"Surrender is not a solution," he asserted.

Senate Minority leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., criticized Republicans for sticking with a "failed" strategy of "stay the course."

"It is long past time to change course in Iraq and start to end the president's open-ended commitment," he said.

Joining all Republicans in support of the nonbinding resolution, with the exception of Sen. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, were Democrats Mark Dayton of Minnesota, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, Bill Nelson of Florida and Ben Nelson of Nebraska.

Lieberman, Bill Nelson and Ben Nelson are running for re-election this fall.

Last week, the House rejected withdrawal timetables.

Republicans have welcomed the debate, ahead of mid-term elections, because it points out stark differences with Democrats over the war and highlights divisions with the Democratic Party.

President Bush has said U.S. troops will remain in Iraq until Iraqi security forces are prepared to defend the country.

Warriornation: Good one about Kerry. Flip flopping has become a habit with him. Love Linda Eddy's cartoons ... hilarious. I think we should reinvestigate White Water and the downing of Flight 800 (which I believe was the first Islamic terrorist attack on our homeland).

I apologize ... 2nd attack ... (WTT 1993).

Warriornation,

Let me make an equation:

We have said to our young people, join the military, serve freedom, do a service to your country and your neighbors.

The terrorists have said, join us, serve your religion, help save your brothers and sisters.

We recruit pretty well, seems like they do too.

The point of setting a time-table is simple, if we make them stand-up they will, if we continue to be their crutch, they will milk us for all we are worth.

Right now they don't have to have any responsibility to their people, because anything that happens they can lay the blame on us or the insurgents.

We already know the army and police are filled with the militias, so if we take away one enemy [us] they only have the foreign fighters and themselves to fight.

I can see a drawdown of troops, to say 10k, which will be mostly special ops and advisors who can do the job we are doing right now, the majority of troops in the country are support staff, if we have less troops, we will need less support staff.

let me present another point, the vast majority of the people we are killing are locals, not foreign fighters. Most of these idiots think they are protecting their neighborhoods, so when we go blowing them up, we piss off a butt-ton of their friends and familes, who inturn either support or join the ranks of the local militias, and now see us as just as much of a target as anyone else...thats how I see it atleast.

TEO- Nice point. If you are going to have heart surgery, I suggest you have a med student perform it. Sure, he may not be ready quite yet, but you forcing him to do it on his own just might make him a real, qualified doctor that much faster. Then again you might die. Also, do you really think we are fighting gangs protecting their neighborhoods in Iraq? I have not heard of Kurd's or Shiia attacking us lately, so I'm assuming these are mostly Sunni "Gangs". Would it not make more sense to put the blame on the Sunni's for attacking us rather than on our troops for being there? If the Sunni stop shooting at us, I'm pretty sure we will stop shooting at them.

TEO,

Do you actually think the terrorists setting off IEDs when Coalition patrols and convoys pass are locals "protecting their neighborhoods"? Boy, you are naive, or just stupid.

Each day, more and more average Iraqis are providing Coalition Forces and the Iraqi Security Forces tips on locations of weapons caches, IEDs, and terrorist safe-houses.

The vast majority of Iraqis being killed are being killed by foreign terrorists, the remnants of the Battist regime, and native-born terrorists. Their key targets are Security Force and Police Recruiting Stations and Police Stations. They are attempting to discourage the average Iraqi from joining the Security Forces or Police and defend their country.

Do you really believe that the terrorists, insurgents, whatever, are freedom-fighters fighting to oust the American occupiers? They are not. They are attempting to sway the political fight in the good ole US of A. Every time a liberal stands up on the Senate floor and calls the President a liar, the terrorists cheer. Every time a liberal proposes that we cut-and-run, a terrorist is emboldened. Every time a liberal posts on a blog criticising our efforts to bring liberty to a region that has only known dictators, the terrorists think they have a chance of succeeding. We the civilized world presented a united front against radical Islamist terrorism, we could end the scourge in short order. But divided, as the liberals have done to the US and the world, the terrorist have hope that they can retake Iraq, the heart of the Middle East.

If we are successful in Iraq, and I have no doubt we will be, no thanks to the liberals, we will see greater freedoms for all in the region. If the Iranians see that democracy can succeed in Iraq and Afghanistan, they will be encouraged to throw the mullahs out and replace them with a decmocratically elected government.

But, of course, you liberals are all opposed to this. The party that professes to be the champions of freedom and liberty is opposed to bring freedom and liberty to Iraq, Afghanistan, or whatever other country that is currently not free. What hypocrites.

John "I fought in Vietnam" Kerry loses again. Maybe kerry hopes that bin laden will put his picture up on the cave wall, just like the north vietnamese put up kerrys picture in their museum of north vietnamese war heros.

The Senate rejects a pullout from Iraq 86-13. Al-Qaeda must be really depressed now. First we kill their Iraq leader, now America has voted overwhelmingly-more than once-to stay in Iraq and fight on to victory. Bwahahaha!

We need more Bush victories that are totally out of touch with what america wants, like this one.

A poll today showed that 54% of people would be more likely to support a congressional candidate who supported a withdrawal timetable, compared to 33% that said they would be less likely.

The majority of America wants a timetable, Iraq wants a timetable. Bush doesn't. Thats going to cost some votes...

We shall see Axis, we shal see.

Again, I think congress should just keep their collective noses out of deployment issues and leave it to the soldiers in the field.

A-10,

Just because you don't pay attention to what is going on, doesn't mean you can make things up as you go, you blustering buffoon.

Read what the people who are on the ground are saying, and next time try learning about a subject before you just guess, and assume you're correct, moron!

This is Prof. Ahmed Hashim, Professor Hashim is a lieutenant colonel in the U.S. Army. As an American of Turkish-Egyptian origins, and having served three tours advising the U.S. command in Iraq.

"Who are the insurgents and what do they want? This is an interesting insurgency. It's largely centered in the Sunni Arab and Sunni Turkmen community. It does not include the Kurds. Except for the period in the spring of 2004, when the Shia rose and there was this view that the insurgency could become almost a national insurgency against the Coalition presence, akin to the Iraqi revolt of 1920, a larger insurgency did not occur. What you have here is that the insurgency is concentrated within the Sunni community.

Who does it involve? Yes, it involves Sunni Arab tribes. It involves urban dwellers, intellectuals, rural people, former regime elements. They have had a very important role in the insurgency. Keep in mind that the Baath Party, its very ethos and structure and organizational culture, is that of a conspiratorial party, a Leninist party that has spent many years in the wilderness, in the 1960s, prior to taking power in 1968. They know how to organize politically in power and also how to organize politically when they are out of power."

"Here's another important aspect which makes Iraq less secular and less likely to be a democratic state: Iraq's youth right now is less educated than their parents and their grandparents. Iraq's educational structure broke down during the sanctions. Parents could no longer afford to have their children go to school, so they sent them out to work.

They also became susceptible to extremist ideologies. We discovered this at length in, say, a town like Tal Afar, where the educational system was never great to begin with, but it had collapsed. The Baathist teachers in Tal Afar had actually started proselytizing Islamist tracts to the youth, rather than Baathist principles.

Why was this not reported back to Baghdad? Because the people who do the reporting back to Baghdad were from the same tribe and kinship structure as those doing the teaching of the youth of the city. You do not report back on your own kinship. With the collapse of the totalitarian enterprise in Iraq, things began to be more tribal. What happened was that there was a growth in Islamism among the youth.

So you see that an important element of the insurgency was Islamic.

Now, this is not the same thing as foreign jihadists coming in. We hear that there were a large number of foreign jihadists. This is part of creating the narrative to say that the insurgency is really foreign-dominated or directed. If you look at the history of countries fighting insurgencies, they have always blamed outsiders, until they realize that there are internal issues at stake and that you have to deal with them. In Vietnam, we blamed Russia and China. In Malaya, the British blamed initially the People's Republic of China. But then there comes a recognition, or a glimmer of understanding, that there are some legitimate problems that need to be dealt with internally.

The foreign element has not been more than 10 percent of the insurgency. Even if there were more, they could not do much without the Iraqis supporting them logistically and materially. This Orientalist view that, "Well, most of the other jihadis are Arabs, so they will fit into Iraq," is nonsense. An Algerian sticks out like a sore thumb in Iraq. So does an Egyptian. So does a Saudi, even if it's a Saudi from the Shammar Arab tribe. The Shammar is a large tribe that extends from Saudi Arabia through Iraq into Syria. They are not the same, through accent, through culture, through a lot of things.

For the foreigners to succeed in doing what they do, which includes a lot of suicide operations, they need Iraqi insurgents to support and maintain the infrastructure for them. Suicide operations require a lot of infrastructure. It's not like some guy wanders in and says, "I want to be a suicide bomber," and he puts on a vest or gets into a car and drives into a Coalition convoy or a group of Iraqi civilians. It takes a lot of planning and reconnaissance, and it is Iraqis who do that for them, because they know the area, they know the neighborhoods. Even if foreigners are an important element, they rely on the Iraqis to participate."

--So as you can see, the Professor here talks about the insurgency being a very local, almost neighborhood to neighborhood militias, who can come together to particiapte in large assualts, but mostly stay to themselves, working on cell-based levels, street to street.

"Iraq is facing ethno-sectarian conflict, or what I call a low-level civil war. Some people would try to parse that and say it really isn't civil war, because it's assassinations and groups of people wandering around killing people. But fifty to sixty people dead a day qualifies as a civil war for me. When the state does not have the monopoly of violence, but there are a large number of death squads and militias, that qualifies as a civil war. When the various communities create exclusivist, racist narratives about one another, through the mosques or through their political elites or their new populist intellectuals, that qualifies as a civil war."

--So we see here that we are fighting much more a war between factions and sects, and all we are is monkey-in-the-middle to these folks, when we blow up Shia, Sunni's cheer, when we blow up Sunni, Shia cheer; it's a sick cycle that we can't remove ourselves from because no one trusts us, and we don't trust them...so who exactly are we fighting? Are we going to cleanse 1/3 of the country to stop the violence?

http://www.cceia.org/viewMedia.php/prmTemplateID/8/prmID/5376PHPSESSID=87335e29d33c7cbd47904f10cbfaa5f4#3

Rich,

i'd rather have a student doing my heart surgery, NOW, rather than waiting for the doctor to wait around for things to get better, all the while i'm bleeding to death.

The Sunni have been kicked out of power, they are going to attack anyone they can, we don't need to antagonize them anymore, they are a small part of the population, and they can be brought under control, but we need to let them do their own negotiations with these nutjobs, we don't even know the slightest thing about their culture, or kinship ties.

"The other thing is that it also requires something that the United States has generally not been very good at, what used to be called in the 19th and 20th centuries, during the era of Anglo-French colonialism, cultural anthropology. But that has a bad aura to it. It's really more cultural, social, and human mapping. In other words, trying to understand the society you are being engaged in, socially, economically, identity-wise, tribal, and all the social networks.

We have a problem with that because we don't emphasize languages or geography. There is a paucity of linguistic training in the United States. This is the world's most globalized country, but as one British interlocutor officer said (and I love the British to bits, but they can be so supercilious), "You're the most globalized country in the world, but you're the most ignorant." This was one British officer in the Green Zone, when we were discussing counter-insurgency and so on. He said, "The problem with you Americans is, you don't understand counter-insurgency." I said, "And you do?" He said, "Well, yes, Malaya." I said, "I knew you were going to talk about that, but let me mention Northern Ireland, Palestine, Aden, and all these places where you've had failures. You've had successes, but to extrapolate the template of Malaya"—which I got really fed up with—"to Iraq or Vietnam is not very factual; it's ahistorical."

http://www.cceia.org/viewMedia.php/prmTemplateID/8/prmID/5376#3

gee axis, thats a good fact EXCEPT BUSH ISNT RUNNING AGAIN!!!, will you liberals please get that through your super thick skulls. you think just cause they dont like bush means they are going to vote democrat in the general elections means your setting yourselves up for one heck of a fall.

Pilot,

Ofcourse they aren't going to vote democrat, but they don't have to, for every republican who either stays home, or votes for a second tier candidate, or a splinter group, it's a win for us...so keep jumping ship, we will laugh all the way to the repeal of the taxcuts. LOL!

From TEO

"Warriornation,

Let me make an equation:

We have said to our young people, join the military, serve freedom, do a service to your country and your neighbors.

The terrorists have said, join us, serve your religion, help save your brothers and sisters.

We recruit pretty well, seems like they do too.

The point of setting a time-table is simple, if we make them stand-up they will, if we continue to be their crutch, they will milk us for all we are worth.

So let me get this straight, if we make these people stand up they will. I'm curious, does this apply to welfare reform as well in this country? Does this apply with food stamps as well here in this country? Etc, etc?

LOL

The majority of Americans want a timetable Axis? Find me a national poll that answers that EXACT question that way.

A majority of Americans also want lower taxes Axis. Are your candidates going to run on that?

A majority of Americans want cheaper gas prices. Are you going to allow drilling in ANWR?

A majority of Americans want terrorists capture or killed too.

We could go on and on

Warriornation,

Go ahead and turn the welfare rools out into the streets, on their own. I'll direct them, with their IEDs to your neighborhood.