I guess if this is true, then the Administration is going to jump on the circuit and prove themselves right afterall... Can't wait for them to start talking on MTP, Hardball & Charlie Rose all about this stuff... Afterall if it's true I imagine we're going to start hearing a lot about this... right?

I doubt it Walcrowe because folks won't believe it when they say it. While it'd be interesting to have them go out and forward this information I have a feeling it's not going to happen.

President Bush started his first term with a certain amount of naivete. He had had such success in Texas, using his personal philosophy of resepct, consideration, and inclusion to overcome ages-old partisan differences, he thought he could do the same in Washington.

When he was faced with military action and the Left objected, he did everything they asked him to do. He repeatedly went to the UN and got agreement after agreement from them that we were justified in taking military action against Iraq. He went to Congress over and over again, with the same result. He naively thought that an overwhelming majority of the Sentate voting for invasion, the repeated approval of the United Nations, and a coalition of many countries, would all serve to provide a solid foundation for his actions.

When he got his nose bloodied so many times, when he found that nothing would ever overcome the ingrained partisanship of D.C., when the very same people who supported him in their voting then claimed to have been misled, claimed to have been lied to, claimed they didn't know that military intervention meant military intervention, he learned that nothing makes sense in Washington.

After being shown, in so many ways, the utter shamelessness of the Left when it comes to politics, it would be hard to imagine him believing that any MORE facts will make any more difference. He is dealing with a huge faction whose entire base has a foundation of lies, and which is devoted to those lies. These people have already proven their determination to be unswayed by facts.

We find documents proving...anything? The Left simply dismisses them as plants, as forgeries. We have testimony from eyewitnesses to the disposal of WMD? The Left dismisses them as liars. The Left set the stage for our discovery of WMD three years ago or more. They knew we would find some, because they knew they were there. But they had to convince their followers that there were none, so they started off before we ever invaded with their claims that if we DID find anything, it would have to be fake, be planted.

So I expect the White House to simply announce the facts and not waste a lot of time on trying to convince the unconvinceable. Bush has had ample opportunity to learn what a waste of time it is to treat the Left as if they were decent, rational, people. He's reached out to them, included them, respected them, refused to attack them, and been kicked in the teeth for it. They get rabid when he ignores them, calling him "arrogant" and worse when he simply rises above their pettiness and goes on about the important business of his office, and it enrages them. He is hardly likely to suddenly start acting as if they matter. He will simply explain to the rest of the country what is going on, and let the Left seethe in its impotent rage at being dismissed as too insignificant to bother with.

LOL! I actually just emailed you, because I have been looking online for the news on this. I watched the press conf. but couldnt find anything about it on any of the major news sites!

POTUS has had these documents for 2+ years and gave them to Santorum because he's in serious re-election trouble. The dummies in PA might think that they mean something, but then they elected Santorum in the first place so how bright can they be? Peace

How long before the left says these docs were forged (yet the Dan Rather docs weren't according to them).

Here here Almiranta.
I'm a fairly moderate person in my views, but I do believe that the Left (and this is my opinion based on what I see so Steve, Axis, and TEO can go on an on about this not being true but I believe it to be and so that's my opinion) simply hates the guy for a variety of reasons; none of which they are honest about and that's why he can't ever please them.

IF he did, I'd accuse him of being the submissive in an abusive relationship... to keep going back to the person who abuses you as the Left abuses Bush is absolutely silly.

POTUS has had these documents for 2+ years

As usual, Steve, you're wrong--the Pentagon had the documents, and they were CLASSIFIED. War

It seems counter intuitive for the Pentagon, which is constantly lambasted for not finding the WMD, to have really found them all a long and not tell anyone about it.

Why wait 'til now?

and the report was only finished in April. So it's actually only been classified for a couple months.

Georgia...we know that more than 20,000 boxes containing a million documents were finally released a few months ago. There are a couple of internet sites with Arabic translators that daily update what those documents say.

It's funny, the left doesn't like what those translators are saying. Just like when the CD was discovered of Saddam taping his OWN conversations.

You guys have the "Bush lied" crap down to a mantra level now so it doesn't matter if there is video tape of Saddam himself hiding WMD, you guys won't believe it anyway. I can understand why the administration has just said "move on" because it doesn't matter.

Those that believe the CIA, the British, Russians, UN, etc that said he had them (you know, the sane people) are going to continue to believe.

Those that don't believe the CIA, the British, the czechs, the Russians, the UN, Clinton Administration, Israelis, etc, etc (you know...you guys on the left) will not believe in the documents.

So what's the point.

No Steve...the DOD had them...try again. It also doesn't explain why it wasn't just Santorum that released these but another Senator...why didn't you mention the other Senator..did it not fit nicely into your conspiratorial re-election argument?

According to Senator Santorum and Congressman Hoekstra, the intelligence community had the document, but didn't tellanyone about it.

Judged by the number of leaks of classified documents by individuals within the intelligence community designed to damage the Presidency and undermine the Global War on Terror, it doesn't surprise me that they withheld the document.

As typical of the left, instead of applauding the fact that we have discovered the 500 WMD munitions and have prevented them from getting into the hands of terrorists, Alan Colmes trys to claim it is a ploy to shore up Senator Santorum's campaign.

According to Senator Santorum and Congressman Hoekstra, the intelligence community had the document, but didn't tellanyone about it.

Judged by the number of leaks of classified documents by individuals within the intelligence community designed to damage the Presidency and undermine the Global War on Terror, it doesn't surprise me that they withheld the document.

As typical of the left, instead of applauding the fact that we have discovered the 500 WMD munitions and have prevented them from getting into the hands of terrorists, Alan Colmes trys to claim it is a ploy to shore up Senator Santorum's campaign.

It's official. Saddam Hussein had WMD's.

Now the liberal talking points are that these are weapons procured before 1991, so they don't count!! Hello. They are WMD. They are filled with sarin and mustard gas. Some have degraded. Some are still lethal.

Sean Hannity had a good point. If they are no big deal, why don't we store them in liberals' garages for safe keeping? After all, they're old (and probably leaky), there are only 500 of them (it is reported that it only took about 15 shells to kill 2,000 Kunds), so they won't pose any problem.

The liberals have moved the goalposts again. The only WMD that will qualify as proof that Iraq had a WMD program is if the production date is Mar 2003. Any WMD found that was producted before we liberated Iraq, doesn't count.

A-10. Right, I noticed the spin too. This is the good pre-1991 CHERRY FLAVORED Sarin! Dieing never tasted so good!

Kahn,

Fortunately sarin doesn't age like fine wine. Otherwise our sophisticated liberal friends would be ordering a magnum of Sarin du Blanc 1991.

There are WMDs in Washington--Kerry, Kennedy, Dodd, Dorgan, Boxer, Clitton, Levin, Schumer, Biden, Leakey, Feingold, Feinstein, Reed, Reid, Durbin, Piglosi, Mikulski, Sarbanes, Nelson(FL), Obama, Harkin, et.al.

These kooks will get us all killed if we're not careful...

The reason we didn't want to "expose" Russia, China and France is we need their assistance with Iran. Who in their right mind didn't think Russia, China and France were in bed with Saddam after the Oil for Food scandal?

And frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn what the Left thinks. The documents are FINALLY being transcribed and released. More revelations will be revealed ... count on it.

I don't know where my post went ...

We did not want to "expose" Russia, China, and France because we need their help with Iran. Who in their right mind doesn't believe those three were not in bed with Saddam after the Oil for Food scandal?

And, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn what the Left says or thinks about this. I am just thrilled some documents are finally being transcribed and released.

Arrrrgh!

Your posts are getting through kimberly, we just have to wait now and then have them show up. :)

I'm with you though, more news in this vein will come out over the following years. As I've said before only history will tell the truth about all of this.

kimberly,

From what I understand, this was not a catured document that was translated. This is a military report of WMD they have found. It was just completed in April 2006, and was previously classified. Portions were recently de-classified and provided to member of the House and Senate Intelligence committees.

This is just a test balloon. Wait till October and we're gonna see a lot more stuff declassified. And for you libs saying this stuff is harmless, can we store it in your basement?

A-10, And honey-mustard gas. It just can't be WMD's. I mean, isn't that one of the primo lefty wacko tenets?

By the way. My grandfather lived until I was about six. That was 1965. In his youth, he had a minor exposure to German mustard gas (that killed some in his unit) in World War One. Well over forty years later he had nose-bleeds and respiratory problems as a result. That stuff is nasty nasty nasty.

Libs - you're welcome. Yah, we know you hate us - but we saved you anyways.

A-10: I knew that. I guess I was just so excited about posting :-) And, there are thousands of pages of documents yet to be transcribed. The proof will continue to pile up.

What's going on here? Where are the liberals claiming they're all fake and this is just an election year ploy? Of course, if the truth is an election year ploy then... well...

Of course, if you listen to the official administration response, which is quoted here, you'll find this (emphases mine):

Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."

Sharpton questioned their truthfullness on O'Reily.

Go to a liberal website Jonathon...they are saying they are fakes all over the place.

This is how liberals do things. Reality never enters the question for them. They just keep changing the standards, changing the rules, moving the goal posts, etc, etc....it's what they did in 2000 with the counting of the chads, it's what they have done with this war, it's what they tried to do in Ohio in 2004.

It's how they work. They are NEVER about what is good for America, it's about getting back in power and nothing short of that. This is why it's been 30+ years since half the country gave them the vote to run this country.

They are scary, scary people.

At the end of the day, when Russia, the UN, Israel, the British, CIA, Czechs, Joranians, Clinton administration are all saying WMD existed I find it almost impossible that all of these agencies would be wrong / lied. Almost impossible. But there are plenty of kooks out there that want to believe Bush lied. Many of them here on this website.

I mean please, why would all of those agencies lie (many of them not even our friends)?

More than likely WMD were found in the first 6 months of the war as was reported time and again in the news only to later state "turned out not to be WMD." Most likely it was but because the security situation there was so crappy they had to make the militias and others believe that no WMD actually existed. If the militias and others got a hold of Sarin gas or other wmd's....bad, bad news.

I'm sure more of this stuff is going to come out.

Will the kooky liberals finally believe all of those gov'ts, all of those agencies, even the Clinton Administration or will they continue the absolutely silly "Bush lied" comments with no proof whatsoever?

My gut says they will continue to be anti-USA and continue to be the absolute garbage they are.

From another blog: "I would love to have W in front of a whole season of Congress.
He would take a shell out of a bag and put it on the podium and say, "Gentlemen and Ladies, this is a friggin WMD. Its full of Sarin and would kill everyone in this building. I want everyone who said that I lied to get down on their knees and thank God I am a forgiving man!"

"Ted you start first!"

Time for another round of "good news from Iraq" that once again failed to make an appearance here on B4B (Not surprisingly)

----------------------

8 U.S. troops charged with murder

Investigation focuses on killing of civilian in Hamdaniya, Iraq

U.S. troops are accused of killing 54-year-old Hasham Ibrahim Awad on April 26.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Seven U.S. Marines and a Navy corpsman were charged with murder Wednesday in the April killing of an Iraqi civilian near the town of Hamdaniya, Col. Stewart Navarre said at Camp Pendleton, California.

All eight also face charges of kidnapping, conspiracy, larceny, assault and housebreaking, or unlawfully entering a dwelling. Five of the men also are accused of making a false official statement, according to information released to the media.

Navarre declined to list specific counts against each man. (Watch recounting of incident by victim's brother -- 2:40)

The eight -- members of the Pendleton-based 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment -- were taken out of Iraq and detained at the base after accusations that they killed Hasham Ibrahim Awad, 54, a disabled veteran of Iraq's war with Iran in the 1980s.

The troops, all assigned to Kilo Company, allegedly removed Awad from his home and shot him to death.

Navarre, chief of staff for Marine Corps bases west of the Mississippi River, said the men were charged after Lt. Gen. John F. Sattler, senior commander at Pendleton, reviewed the findings of a criminal inquiry by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service.
Charging document gives account

The Associated Press obtained a copy of the charging document, which gives the following account:

The troops were staking out an intersection looking for people placing explosives along the road. When no one came, Magincalda, Thomas, Pennington and Bacos stole a shovel and an AK-47 from a nearby home and went looking for an insurgent named Saleh Gowad.

They couldn't find Gowad, so they went into a house belonging to Awad and kidnapped him. Magincalda, Thomas, Pennington and Bacos forced Awad to the ground, tied his feet and took him to their hideout and placed him in a hole.

Hutchins, Thomas and Shumate fired M-16 rifles at Awad while Jackson and Jodka fired M-249 automatic weapons, killing him.

Bacos then fired the AK-47 into the air to expend some shell casings. Magincalda collected the casings and put them by the body, the document said. Pennington cleaned prints off the AK-47 and put it in Awad's hands.

Hutchins, the top-ranking Marine, told his men to make false statements and on April 28 submitted "a false written report regarding the factors and circumstances related to Awad's death," according to the document.
Article 32 proceedings

Sattler will decide whether and how to proceed with preliminary hearings known in the military as Article 32 proceedings, the equivalent of a civilian grand jury, Navarre said. Those in turn could lead to courts-martial for some or all of the men.

If premeditated murder charges are referred, Sattler would determine whether the accused soldiers could face the death penalty, Navarre said.

The charges were filed Wednesday morning, and each man has retained civilian counsel, Navarre said. Key members of Congress were briefed Wednesday on the specifics of the charges, he said.

"It is important to note that the charges and specifications are accusations against the individual, and the accused is presumed innocent," he said.

Four additional Marines also had been sent to Pendleton and placed on pretrial restriction. They have been released, Navarre said. "I cannot discuss those Marines further as the matter is still under investigation," he said.

The other eight are under "medium confinement," which allows them to move about the detention facility without constraints, Navarre said.

"The Marine Corps takes allegations of wrongdoing by its members very seriously and is committed to thoroughly investigating such allegations," Navarre told reporters.
Father of accused 'incredulous'

Phil Jackson, the father of accused 22-year-old Lance Cpl. Tyler A. Jackson, told CNN he watched Navarre's news conference on television.

"I'm shocked. Incredulous. These guys are innocent. These Marines are innocent until proven guilty, as the U.S. Marine Corps said today. I certainly hope and believe that the Marines will adhere to that in their investigation," the father said in a statement.

"Let's not assume until the process runs its course. It is only now that the alleged evidence will become available to the military and private counsels involved," said Jackson, who lives in Tracy, California.

Maj. Haythan Faraj, a lawyer for Cpl. Trent D. Thomas, told The Associated Press that at least some of the information given by the troops "was coerced out of them" by investigators.

David Brahms, a lawyer for Lance Cpl. Robert B. Pennington, told Reuters, "It's preposterous to suggest that eight Marines got together to plan a murder."
Family's allegations

Awad's family told CNN the Marines were pressuring him to act as an informer, hoping to learn who was planting roadside bombs and carrying out other attacks around Hamdaniya, on Baghdad's western outskirts.

The Americans carried Awad from his home to the main road through town, said his brother, Sadoon.

Police turned over Awad's body to relatives the next day, along with an assault rifle and shovel his family says were planted to make him look like an insurgent.

U.S. troops offered $2,000 in compensation for his brother's death, then $10,000, said Sadoon Awad. He said he considered the offers an attempt to buy his family's silence.

"But I refused," he told CNN. "I told them, 'I don't need money.' I told them, 'The truth is that you took my brother, you tortured him, and you killed him, although he was disabled and old.' "

Iraqi officials brought the allegation to Marine commanders at a May 1 meeting, prompting the commander of U.S. troops in Iraq, Maj. Gen. Richard Zilmer, to call for an investigation.

Some Marines have admitted the circumstances of the man's death were staged, a military officer with direct knowledge of the Navy's preliminary findings told CNN earlier this month.

Investigators recently returned Awad's body after exhuming it and taking it to the United States for tests, his brother said. He said he expects to attend the trial, but did not know whether he would be called as a witness.

Meanwhile, defense lawyers have decried information leaks from the probe, while their clients are being held in pretrial confinement.
Fourth soldier charged

The incident is unrelated to a criminal investigation into the killings of 24 Iraqi civilians in the Anbar province town of Haditha in November.

Investigations into both incidents spurred the commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. Mike Hagee, to lecture Marines on what he called "the American way of war" during a trip to Iraq in early June.

Separately, a fourth soldier from the 101st Airborne Division was charged Wednesday in connection with the shooting deaths of three detainees during an operation in Salaheddin province in May, the military said.

Spc. Juston R. Graber, 20, was charged with premeditated murder, attempted premeditated murder, conspiracy to commit murder and making a false official statement, according to a written statement. (Full story)

The military announced Monday that an Army sergeant and two other soldiers had been charged in the case.

Okay, here we go:

We found the WMDs.
Saddam is gone.
The Iraqis have had their elections.
The insurgency is in its "last throes."

What are we still doing there?

Time for Axis to deny that more WMD was found in which he has not argument and thus puts up another report in an attempt to disparage our troops.

Way to go Canuck...way to go.

Gee, I don't know Wyckyd Sceptre...maybe to make sure that everything we've done with our coalition partners is seen through to the end.

It would be awfully silly to leave now when things haven't settled yet would it not?

The American Revolution took 8 years. We are on year 3 here....sometimes things take a little time.

:)

Well as you know Warriornation, to a liberal, the only good soldier is a jailed soldier... or a soldier fighting against the US.

Warriornation:
People seem to forget that war is HARD.

SeesThroughIt,

Just who is this nameless DoD official who seems to be spouting liberal talking points?

Obi - Wan Lib - obi:

"These aren't the WMD's you're lookings for. We can go about our business. Move along."

Wether these were the SPECIFIC weapons we were lookign for is completely and utterly irrelevant. The treaty - the CEASE FIRE not cessation of war - with Saddam was predicated around, among other things which were also violated, him giving up ALL - and in - every single one - as in - keeping none - of his WMD's. Period. He violated the terms of the treaty> And in more ways than just that.

"Gentlemen and Ladies, this is a friggin WMD. Its full of Sarin and would kill everyone in this building. I want everyone who said that I lied to get down on their knees and thank God I am a forgiving man!"

UH...

Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."

I don't remember any stipulation being set that wmd's had to be created after 1991, sseesthroughit and axis should supply this if thats what they believe. Also, were these 500 mnuitions in the Deulfer report? If not, can you libs agree that there might be other things not in the report, and that it is full of holes?

You folks aren't real bright, are ya?

Ofcourse we knew he HAD WMDs, we gave him the technology, and the rest of the world was shipping him mustard, VX, Sarin, etc. The point was that nothing we have found is post '91. We knew what he had prior to that, the WHOLE world knew what he had, infact.

You are now dropping the threshold of finding stockpiles of WMD from 45 minute nuclear strikes, now to 500 pre '91 dual chamber munition shells, with sarin and mustard gas that was flawed, and had a shelf-life of a few weeks when it was made.

Who is grasping at straws now? Why would Saddam ship everything else out of the country, but leave a few crumbs for the US to find...seems you all wanna harp on the Syrian road-show, yet you can ignore your "facts" to believe that he conveniently forgot a whole cache of his WMD munitions.

I'm sure no matter what happens, you ditto-heads will continue to try and justify your illegal war, so you don't feel so bad about bombing innocent civilians, and causing the explosion of violence we see today, way to help-out OBL.

I believe that it's the fact that hard core soldier hating leftists like Third Eye Open are not capable of shame that makes them this way. It was them that said Saddam had no WMD, now it's Of course we all knew he had WMD. It's gone from hypocrisy to outright lying.

Third Eye Open-
You just can't admit you guys were wrong,and if you knew all along that there were WMD's, sounds to me like some Dems were the one's misleading the country...hmmm, big surprise? Not really. I'm really tired of people blaming the Bush Administration and saying they went in under false pretense, when all the Senate, Congress, etc., had the same info and voted to go to war right along with him...It would help your cause if the Left could get honest once in a while and admit they are the one's that have been lying to the public! I hope, politically speaking, Freedom1 lets you have it right in the kisser!

To all you bullshitting libs.....

Define "useable"......

While the munitions found were degraded, THEY WERE STILL LETHAL!

How level of honesty are you willing to hold Saddam to?

What else has he lied about?

He still said they were all destroyed......

Still after all is said and done the UN's own report has listed 1000s and 1000s of munitions and precursor agents un-acounted for.

'nuff said.....

With due respect, the reason why the media is "ignoring" Santorum's ridiculous performance is because it's just that -- ridiculous.

The shelf life of these weapons is about 2 years. They had already turned into useless sludge AGES ago, and are completely irrelevant. Of course they had them. We have the receipts from when Donald Rumsfeld sold them to Saddam!

And if the existence of these degraded weapons are news to anyone, well then you haven't been paying attention, or you've been drinking the FAUX News kool-aid FAR too much and you need to detox with a healthy dose of truthiness.

I am saddened frankly, that you were wrong about Iraq. Wretchedly, wretchedly WRONG. If you folks on the rightwing had been correct, at least our soldier's considerably painful sacrifice would have not been in vain.

But you were NOT correct, and the responsibility for this mess is squarely on your shoulders, AND on the shoulders of Democrats who trusted you rather than their good Liberal instincts that Bush/Cheney et al were lying jerks who don't DESERVE our trust. But ultimately, YOU put into power reckless men, blinded by greed, voluntary ignorance, and arrogance, and if you had any sense of honor or humility in the face of the suffering you've caused, you might have the decency and simple grace to apologize and go slink back under the rock from which you came.

Sorry, but your fifteen minutes are up. You're over. Short of stealing yet another election, much of your misguided Neocon movement will be thankfully out of power by November, and we can get down to actually SOLVING these problems, and doing things like safe guarding our ports, catching Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar, finishing the job in Afghanistan, getting Mexico and our corporations to start sharing the burden of fixing the illegal immigration problem, pulling the 37 million Americans who live in poverty out of the awful conditions you helped put them in with our trashed economy and tax cuts for the ultra-rich, getting real health care for our kids, getting our water and air clean again (something which USED to be a conservative value), and actually balancing a budget.

Democrats,we told you he had WMD. you said Bullcrap. We said time will answer that question. You said Bullcrap. We said 1000's of humans died already from these "non-existing" WMD. You said well maybe so but we gave them to him. Sen. Rick Santorum said 5000 shells were found, where only 15 is need to kill 5000 people, 500 would wipe out every single person in Cincinnati Ohio. You said Bush stole the 2000 elections, besides they were planted and besides they are old, beside, besides, besides

How quaint.

Same old story, can't justify your actions, so try and re-write history.

You dolts are off your rockers if you think anyone is saying he NEVER had WMDs, we know he did, what do you think all the years of inspections were for? Quit trying to confuse a tiny fraction of degraded munition shells for the spectre of a "smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud" not a smoking gun in the form of nearly useless CW.

You ditto-heads are basing a war of half a trillion dollars, with no forseeable exit, and escalating violence on stuff that was made prior to '91, and which 12 years of sanctions/inspections had all but destroyed.

Should we be invaded because we have stockpiles of white phosphorus, which we have used in battle, we know that happened, does that set the stage for unilateral invasion, and regime change here?

Quit trying to confuse the situation, take a look at what we found in '91, prior to the inspections he was producing sub-par CW and BW, when we destroyed thousands of tons of Sarin, at best it had a few years of shelf-life, this was 12 years ago. The inspections found no re-constituted system, infact if you recall, it takes a massive industrial facility and infrastructure to produce this stuff enmasse, yet 12 years of intense inspections provides not even an inkling of this massive reconstitution...quit making things up, and listen to YOUR OWN republican lead reports.

I live in PA and look forward to voting this idiot out of office in November. Also, my good senator revealed parts of the memo that were classified....will there be a DoJ investigation against him? We are at war and he did reveal classified information or does this rule only apply to information that is unflattering to our Leader?

Hmm...sanctions...
At that time, Saddam was hapilly building his palaces while said sanctions were enforced.
That shows you how effective the sanctions and UN inspections were...

Repeat after me:

The Cease - fire had conditions. Saddam Violated those conditions. THerefore, the ceasefire ended. THere. Wasn't that easy?

I keep seeing so many posts here saying that chemical munitions have a shelf life of 2 years, but all my training in the Chemical Corps of the US Army would disagree. We are still destroying munitions at Chemical Munitions Armories across the states that were made during 1940s, and they are still very lethal. Anyone thinking that these munitions are not dangerous are highly mistaken, since I know they would not put THEIR life on the line by holding onto any of the munitions found in Iraq.

GOD bless the troops and all they give up for our freedoms!!!!!

Rumsfeld sold these munitions to Saddam during the Iraq/Iran war. They were buried in the desert along the Iranian border to be used in that war, then forgotten about when that war ended. bush's war in Iraq was stupid and unnecessary. Peace

TEO,
Don’t have facts? Just lie about it, as usual.
“Sarin, at best it had a few years of shelf-life,”
Sarin has a “shelf life” of a few hours. The components of sarin are DF 2 and the alcohols cyclohexanol and isoproponal (shelf life = limitless), as long as the weapon is intact the chemicals are not mixed and the weapon is lethal.

I'm not so sure that it takes massive industrial facilities to produce WMD in a quantity that would be sufficient to kill alot of people. When American troops captured Fallujah in 2004 they found a chemical weapons lab. Clearly what we found was not the WMD we thought we would find. Our intellegence was wrong, as has been admitted on numerous occasions. We need to find out why it was wrong and to improve. The various "Bush lied" diatribes are a distraction.

5by5

The Democrats were looking at the same intellegence that President Bush was looking at when they passed the resolution authorizing the use of force. Senator Clinton was even on record as saying that the intellegence they were getting from the White House was materially consistent, to paraphrase her, with what they had while they were in the White House. They were all looking at the same intellegence and reached the same conclusions. Besides George "slam dunk" Tenet was a Clinton appointee. As my previous post states, the intellegence was wrong. The WMD are not "there." At least they are not where they thought they would be. Perhaps they were moved to Syria or elsewhere or perhaps the conventional wisdom is correct and they did not exist. I actually hope the conventional wisdom is correct. We need to work on correcting these intellegence failures. "Bush lied" and elaborate conspiracy theories involving "neo conservatives" are a distraction.

RYan,

you prove the MYTH of the "illegal war" argument offered time and again by Dummyrats.

They forget the original cease fire agreement signed by Saddam had conditions. If those conditions were violated "ANY MEMBER NATION" could resume hostilities to force Saddam into cooperation.

What did we get from the Dummyrats following that agreement???

try 18 more resolutions with the U.N., a few lobbed cruise-missiles at SUSPECTED terror camps and an aspirin factory.

Oh, and let's not forget the bombings of "Saddam's WMDs" that made headline news to distract us from the intern scandal......

...you know the ones that supposedly destroyed ALL his WMDs as claimed by several libs.....and Saddam!

steve resumes the lie that we sold Saddam chemical weapons.....never happened! We sold him chemicals that could be refined into weapons, but Saddam needed the facilities to do so......

The chemical weapon attacks on the Kurds and Iranians were proven to have NOT been a result of the chemicals we sold him!!! - proof is in the U.N. record!!!

Libs, it's hard to argue with facts.....your spun bullshit is getting old and the more WMDs we find what arguments will be offered next?!?

Oh, y'all haven't used the "they were planted" in a while........

Tom Shipley

You can hear the desperation in their posts. WMD's found in Iraq! Thank you, Jesus! It doesn't matter a fig if they are in useable condition or not.

Hallelujah! Bush was right all along, and in their eyes, his invasion & occupation of Iraq has been validated. They will grab at any straw just to keep their hero from looking foolish. LOL.

Canadian Observer

The main stream media has been largely silent on this issue, with the exception of Fox News. They have either buried this story, ignored it, or tried to spin it as Rick Santorum trying to save his political career. This find does not bolster the case for the left. This find does not necesarily mean that Bush was "right." A compelling could be made agains the war in Iraq. Also, regarding the WMD issue, there remain some unanswered questions about what may have been transferred to Syria. If the WMD we thought we would find were moved to Syria, this is not a por-Bush argument. In fact, it is one of the most compelling anti-Bush arguments we can make. This would mean we failed to achieve one of the primary objectives of the war.

Hey everyone, America hater 5by5 wants to start a war with Pakistan. Since he claims democrats will get bin Laden and Omar he is advocating an attack on a nuclear and muslim nation. Do the rest of you far left wing fantatical kooks agree?

Ratboy,

You are a complete moron. Worse than that, you are a gullible moron.

Sarin has to be made persistent by oil or other petroleum products, these additives are what degrade the shelf-life of sarin.

now, stay with me, and i'll talk slow. The sarin Saddam had made looked like cola, not colorless and odorless as the pure stuff does, infact in 1989 they had to destroy 40 tons of the stuff, because it went bad. The CIA put the shelf-life of his last stockpile at about a couple years, at most, and in some cases a few weeks.

You have no damn clue what you're talking about, except to troll the conservative "news" sites to get their opinion on something, you are nothing more than a small child, who has wandered into a conversation you know nothing about...someone change his diaper please!

"WHETHER OR NOT SARIN STOCKS REMAIN VIABLE

OVER THE LONG TERM, ALL BELIEVE THAT IRAQ

HAS A SIZEABLE CW STOCKPILE THAT IS

DURABLE ENOUGH TO SURVIVE SEVERAL YEARS OF

STORAGE IF NOT DESTROYED BY COALITION

FORCES."

you see, the CIA knew the stuff he was making had a shelf-life, but even a shelf-life of a few years wouldn't last 12 years, debunked again!

http://www.fas.org/irp/gulf/cia/960715/72569.htm

rYan,

You're silly, the US can't unilaterally claim that the cease-fire is over, it takes a resolution from the SecCouncil, which we didn't get...see wasn't that easy?

EXCEPT TEO we didn't know if he was still making it or not.

Debunked again.

You see, to latch on to your pathetic views and those of the left you have to make this monumental leap of faith.

You have to say that the CIA lied, the British intelligence lied, the Russians lied (not exactly our friends, why would they help us), the French lied, the UN lied, the Clinton administration lied, the Jordanians lied, the Czechs lied, the Saudis lied, and on and on and on.

I'm sorry, but that is just crap. But it doesn't surprise me that you tinfoil hat moonbats believe in a worldwide conspiracy that they would all say he had WMD, would pass resolution after resolution and then just say "just kidding".

Isn't it great to watch all of these liberals today continue to be in such denial. They want Iraq not to have WMD, they wanted Saddam to remain in power and brutalize his own people, they don't care that one of our greatest allies in Israel is threatened daily.

What the hell happened to the Democratic party? What a joke it has become.

Warriornation,

Stop trying to push your reality, its fantasyland, and your own senators and house members said so!

Call my views pathetic, but that isn't an argument, but the facts I have presented are; you see, it seems to me that the more this illegal war grinds on, the more embarassing it is for your ideological viewpoint. You can't make a precedent for further unilateral regime building if your initial try is deemed illegal, abusive, and unjust by history; so you have to attempt to re-write that history, and demoinize anyone with opposing views so that the next time your side gets a sliver of power you can point backwards and show how right you were. Well guess what buddy, we aren't gonna buy it, we are going to vehamently smack down your lies and distortions at every corner, we will allow you and your ilk no refuge from truth; we will seek you out in all forms and shine the light of facts on the shadows you and your kind live in.

We will not fight anymore of your wars, and we will not cower at the feet of your fake-patriotism, which has killed 2500 of our bravest and brightest. Your anti-american sentiments are false, and hollow!

Poor TEO, once again reduced to babbling ad-hominum.

Pesky facts;
Iraq reported to David Kay that it had adopted the binary method of producing and delivering sarin. This requires the shell to be spun rapidly to mix the components prior to impact. Iraq first told UNSCOM that it had produced an estimated 250 tons of tabun and 812 tons of sarin. In 1995, however, Iraq changed these estimates and stated that it had produced only 210 tons of tabun and 790 tons of sarin. For this reason, it is still uncertain how much tabun and sarin Iraq actually manufactured.

TEO is exactly what you're talking about Warrior, falling over himself spinning truth until it's unreconizable. Pathetic.

"While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible Indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered."
That little gem is right from the Iraq Survey Group.
I've got to hand it to Santorum though -- he's still grasping at straws -- even as he continues to sink.
It was an especially nice touch to send Hoekstra along with him. Hoekstra's lead position on the HSIC seems to provide some authenticity to his claim.
Hoekstra runs in the totally GOP friendly 2nd District of Michigan -- thus any negative fallout from this blatant attempt to mislead will not be too damaging to Hoekstra -- whatever happens.

Ratboy,

You are seriously retarded, arent you?

Read your own quote, does it mention WHEN Saddam was making those munitions?...Yup thats right, just as I said, his munitions were all from pre '91 sanctions/inspections.

You have no clue what you're talking about still, just blathering on, hoping someone will jump in to save your sorry ass with some facts that make sense, and back-up your stupid claims, but unfortunately, neither you or Warrior have the fatcs on your side; Sorry Buck-o.

here are a few choice snippets from the kay report you were talking about:

"After the war, the ISG concluded—contrary to the Intelligence Community’s pre-war assessments—that Iraq had unilaterally destroyed its undeclared CW
stockpile in 1991 and that there were no credible indications that Baghdad had resumed production of CW thereafter."

"Finally, the ISG noted that the only CW it recovered were weapons manufactured before
the first Gulf War"

"The Intelligence Community’s errors on Iraq’s chemical weapons were, not unlike its errors on Iraq’s nuclear and biological programs, heavily influenced by a single factor. In the case of chemical weapons, the factor was the Community’s Chemical Warfare Summary Finding The Intelligence Community erred in its 2002 NIE assessment of Iraq’s alleged chemical warfare program. The Community’s substantial overestimation of Iraq’s chemical warfare program was due chiefly to flaws in analysis and the paucity of quality information collected. over-reliance on dubious imagery indicators."

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/wmd/pdf/chapter1_fm.pdf

It does not matter when he made them. He denied he had them. And HE WAS LIEING. And you TEO are a fool.

Time for TEO to move the goalpost, again.

He didn’t have any.
He had them but he destroyed them.
He had them, he didn’t destroy them, but they "timed out".
He had them, he didn’t destroy them, they didn’t time out, but he didn’t make more.

TEO does the Safety Dance!

Bwahahahaha

Ratboy and Kahn,

By your threshold, all he needed was a scowl and some handguns to invade.

he didn't have nuclear weapons
he didn't have CW
he didn't pose an imminent threat to the US

Anymore excuses to justify an illegal, unilateral war?

Isn't it easy-mac time for you children?

LOL!

LOSERS!

Turd-eye,

If it's illegal, bring charges. All mouth, no substance as usual.

He had Chemical Weapons, did you forget your insipid argument from the post? "You dolts are off your rockers if you think anyone is saying he NEVER had WMDs"

Who said he had nuclear weapons? Another of your straw men?

the President said if we wait until the threat is imminent, it's too late.

Calling it unilateral is disrespectful of:

England
South Korea
Italy
Poland
Ukraine
Georgia
Australia
Romania
Japan
Denmark
Bulgaria
El Salvador
Azerbaijan
Latvia
Albania
Lithuania
Slovakia
Czech Republic
Armenia
Bosnia
Estonia
Macedonia
Kazakhstan
Norway
Netherlands
Afghanistan
Colombia
Costa Rica
Dominican Republic
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Kuwait
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Nicaragua
Palau
Panama
Philippines
Rwanda
Singapore.
Solomon Islands
Spain
Tonga
Turkey
Uganda
Uzbekistan

Bane,

I don't think you realize that I don't bring charges against a nation, but it was still an illegal war, if we didn't have approval to do it, and the action of unilateral war is against the UN charter, then it is against international law, time will tell what if any sanctions result from it, but either way, the action was illegal.

What is your point, we all knew he had WMDs, we know the corporations who sent them to him, hell even we sent him anthrax, noone is saying he never had anything, but it was destroyed during the '91 invasion and the subsequent inspections, read the multitude of reports which said the same thing; now who is having a bout of wishful thinking...go ahead, read the reports man, im sure you will enjoy the same refrain they all sing.

We have about 150,000 troops in iraq, the next largest contingent was UK, followed by Poland with 2500, Spain who had 1300 there, well up until recently, they will be leaving the scene, along with autralia, and japan...that leaves countries like Honduras, El Salvadore, Dominican Republic...a few hundred troops here and there, but they aren't providing security, they are all doing something else, like engineering and road building.

Take a look at how the civilians of the central american countries felt about being thrust into a war for America, after how benevolent we have been to them. LOL!

Our supporters are countries who are either in heavy debt to us, or are looking for support in other areas, The western nations with viable military forces are bugging out. japan announced last week they are pulling their troops...and yet we are putting more of them in...so what does that say about your coalition of the willing?

Azerbaijan...LOL...they are ruled by an iron fisted tyrant who kills political dissidents, and has their bodies dumped in the woods...although we did just get a sweetheart natural gas pipeline deal with them...hmmm, wonder how that happened?

Do the Soloman islands even have a military...and Rwanda...what the hell are they going ot do...provide gazelle to trip-up IEDs?

Quit trying to make this into something it isn't, we drudged up all the support we could muster, and we still have 80% of the troops there...don't lie to me or yourself man, its not healthy.

TEO; I think I get it now. The war was illegal because France, Russia, and China opposed it. France, Russia, and China had huge business dealings with the Iraqi government. They were never going to support us no matter what. Bottom line: they placed their economic interests ahead of American security interests. Thanks for reminding me of why I have such contempt for that organization known as the UN. I'm actually ashamed that one of the reasons given for Operation Iraqi Freedom was to bring Iraq into compliance with UN resolutions. Instead of declaring it illegal a better argument would be that it did not serve American interests. An argument could be made that it ran against American interests. I agree with Bane, referring to the war as unilateral is extremely disrespectful to our soverign allies who have done all they could and where they could do it to help us along the way.

One of the reasons cited for removing the former Iraqi government was its ongoing support of Islamic Extremist terroris. Iraq's desire to acquire WMD, its ongoing support for terrorism, and collapsing sanctions are largely what led former heads of the ISG Charles Duelfer and David Kay to support the decision to remove the former Iraqi government. Yes, the ISG did conclude that Iraq did not have stockpiles of WMD. This is the conventional wisdom and I really hope it is correct, however, the ISG went on to say they were unable to complete the investigation into what was transferred into Syria and they expressed a desire to complete this investigation should the security situation permit. I think this aspect of the investigation needs to be completed before we can reach any final conclusions.

We can count on the UN to do two things extremely well. Those are anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism. Israel and America are the two greatest nations to ever grace planet earth. /i would not trust the UN for anything.

B. Poster,

I agree, we need to follow all the leads, but at this point we are against a brick wall, unless ofcourse Syria has a change of mind sometime soon.

The UN resolution 1441 was plain and simple, either Saddam let the inspectors back in, or he would face consequences, we decided we knew better, and took it upon ourselves to rectify the situation. Last I checked that was called vigilantism, and no matter which way you sliced it, it's illegal.

I don't bemoan the ouster of Saddam, the man was a tyrant, and deserves the lowest level of Hell for what he did to his own people, but that doesn't mean we get to remake the rules we don't like, just because we happen to be the hyper-power. If we were smart we could have used our clout to rally a true international coalition, with muslim faces at the spear-point, instead of throwing our men and women into a sandbox where we don't speak the language or understand culture and customs. This is just another example of the US throwing caution to the wind, assuming we could just do some clean-up afterwards and throw some money their way to shut up the family of "collateral damage", but instead we are stuck in a war we don't know how to get out of, just like Britain didn't know how to get out of it last century. This whole time Iran and NK have taken the opportunity to punch us while we are down, and we can't properly respond to these real threats.

The sacrifices of the other nations is admirable, but promises of debt relief, entrance into trade agreements and memberships doesn't strike me as "willing" so much as less than violently coerced. How can we honestly accept help from a place like Azerbaijan, while we are taking down one dictatorship, but rewarding another, what kind of message does that send? "As long as you're helping us out, we don't care what you're doing to your own people", infact that was the exact message we sent to Saddam, before he was no longer our anti-Iranian lapdog.

Don't chastise me for believing that a truly benevolent country does things for the charity of the act, not because the externality happens to be something beneficial to us...may I remind you of the situation in Afghanistan, where even our pro-American government there, is now saying that we have overstepped our boundries, and there needs to be changes.

If people weren't dying wholesale, I would laugh about the hypocrisy of the whole situation.

it was still an illegal war says TEO.

Let's just wait for a 'legal' war. Let's subpoena OBL and Mullah Omar. You guys just love the trial lawyers. Why don't you SUE GW and the Congress? You fight all your wars with the courts and lawyers. Welcome to the real world where wars are fought with brave soldiers on battlefields and not some courtroom.

it was still an illegal war says TEO.

Let's just wait for a 'legal' war. Let's subpoena OBL and Mullah Omar. You guys just love the trial lawyers. Why don't you SUE GW and the Congress? You fight all your wars with the courts and lawyers. Welcome to the real world where wars are fought with brave soldiers on battlefields and not some courtroom.

Perhaps when there is a huge smoking hole where a US city once stood, you might come to your senses about how dangerous the world is and realize the lawyers will not help you. Unless, of course, it is your city that becomes a smoldering hole.

i love when the "illegal war" card is played. it makes me laugh b/c its so pathetic.

Playing the "illegal war" card always makes me laugh. its so pathetic. keep it coming libs, you are making my sides hurt from all of the chuckles!

LaMano,

If all you have is visions of craters in your brain, then step aside and let the grown-ups talk about real issues. If you remember correctly the mushroom cloud meme was the same crap Der LEader and his motlety crew were pushing back in 2003, and look how wonderful everything turned out in Iraq.

We aren't going to fight anymore of your illegal wars, and your pasty, fake-patriotism does nothing but make you look even more gullible than you do already, so stow it sailor!

Hammy,

Can you provide a lucid argument as to why it WAS legal?

let me remind you of a few non-starters:

1. Our congress' resolutions and bills go as far as international waters, not an inch more; so anything we decree, if not backed up by SecCouncil approval, is still illegal.

2. SecCouncil Res. 1441 was setup to allow the inspectors back in, only if that was not followed was there room for the approval of military intervention on our part, we never let that resolution finish, and even removed a subsequent resolution for intervention, but it was removed since we couldn't stomach an international veto of our actions, before we went and did something illegal.

3. The cease-fire from '91 still needed SecCouncil approval beofre we acted upon it, we never sought that approval, so therefore it was not sanctioned.

4. Standard material; no WMDs and no Imminent Threat, therefore...still not legal.

anything else you wanna talk about?

TEO: A few of comments about your last post. You refer to the US as a hyper-power. The USA is a very powerful country but it is no hyper power. The United States is checked by: 1.)Russia's nuclear arsenal and by China's vast numbers. 2.)It is heavily dependent on the natrual resources of others to operate its economy. Its suppliers of these resources can and do act to place a check on the US. Often times these suppliers do not have America's best interest at heart. 3.)The US has a massive debt load. This places a check on the US. While the United States is a powerful country, it is no hyper power. While the US is no hyper power, if we suggest that it is, it becomes much easier to vilify the country.

Hans Blix noted Saddam's unwillingness to comply fully with UN resoultion 1441. It was this resolution along with numerous others that helped lead to the decison to oust Saddam Hussein. "Vigilantism" would best describe Saddam's support of terrorism and his insane desire to destroy Israel. The term "naked greed" comes to mind when I think about the actions of Russia, China, and France. American actions, while perhaps not the best course of action, are defensive in nature. The UN is a worthless organization, as long as it allows criminals to write the laws. You want to use our "clout." We don't have the clout you seem to think we have. We need them as badly as they need us, perhaps we need them