Let the cowardly deserters and Cindy stay in Canada. I don't want any of them back here in the US. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they volunteer? What did they think they were volunteering for anyway, just a free education? When my son joined the Navy he knew that anything was possible, including on the ground in Iraq. Don't sign up if you don't have the gonads to follow through. These people make me sick and I don't want them guarding my son's back, they would probably get him killed because of their cowardice.

I had 200 people at my place for bike night. Where's my media coverage? This reminds me of the big anti-military rally on mothers day with Shehag and Sarandon, at the very end of the article it said they had only 150 protesters.

The 200 will represent the "opinion" of our soldiers.... because the 13,000 won't get airtime on CNN and Air America or an article written about them in the NYTimes

My girlfriend's college graduation party had more people than this, and we had beer.

Hugged? Frakked is more like it.

"Betrayed their nation" Mark? Not quite that bad. Karl Rove, Scooter Libby and "their superiors" betrayed their nation when they leaked classified infomation to the press for their own political gain

Bretrayed their unit maybe, but not their nation.

I don't agree with desertation, however I can empathize with them because of the way that the military is recruiting people. Recruiters will often lie to people, give them all kinds of promises and positive sounding things as as too as they get the signature on the dotted line, they ship them off despite what they were promised.

I also don't think that Republicans should be speaking out against desertation considering how many draft dodgers you have, such as Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Dennis Hastert, Dick Armey, Tom Delay, Trent Lott, Newt Gingrich and others. All of these had a duty to join the war and support their country and they draft dodged to save their own skin, and now play chickenhawk with other peoples lives.

Not to mention, the great commander in chief himself, went AWOL from the National Guard and dropped out of his flight training.

Most of the deserters did so because they felt seriously betrayed by their country, and those that recruited them. Many are poor and were looking for opportunity and did not know fully what they were getting into.

Just a couple of months ago, there was a story of an autistic man, who was not able to care for himself who was misled into enlisting, his parent who had power of attorney tried to stop it as he was legally incapable of understanding what he was signing into. The army took him anyways and shipped him off.

Axis,
Now we know why you are in Canada. Libby nor Rove betrayed their nation, both are serving! Neither outed a [non] CIA covert operative and have not even been indicted after over 2 years of a leftwing witch hunt. Obviously you are a LIAR and a COWARD.

And your definition of draft dodger is another LIE. Too bad you also benefit from the efforts of PATRIOTIC AMERICANS!

"You can fool all of the people(patriots), some of the time and you can fool some of the people(religious fascists) all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." Peace

The liberal press and those who leaked the classified NSA information about America's efforts to stop terrorists are the ones who betrayed the nation -- ALL Americans. Their actions have put the LIVES of ALL AMERICANS at ever greater risk of a terrorist attack... but the liberal Democrats don't care about that. The liberal Democrats don't care about the lives of American citizens and their families or the protection of American's cities. Liberal Democrats only care about their own political agenda -- nothing else matters -- they couldn't care less about the lives of Americans.

Just as the liberal Democrat's incessant anti-American propaganda has encouraged the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan to kill America's troops and the innocent citizens of those countries... the end justifies the means and the means justifies the end to liberal Democrats -- no matter how many Americans citizens, soldiers, or anyone else may die getting there!

Axis, perhaps you should take a course in American English rather than that French-Canadian stuff you speak. In case you haven't heard lately, the grand jury found Karl Rove INNOCENT of "leaking" Plame's [alleged and questionable] covert status. In case you missed it, Scooter Libby was NOT INDICTED FOR LEAKING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION or Plame's [alleged and questionable] covert status. In case you missed it, the grand jury has NOT INDICTED ANYONE for LEAKING any CLASSIFIED information, despite spending many, many months and many million dollars trying. They have searched every nook, cranny, and wherever else the Democrats told them to look. They have found no one. The best they could do was indict Libby for lying and then trying to cover it up. It sounds better for your purpose to call it "obstruction of justice", but let's tell the people what it really was and was not -- it WAS NOT LEAKING CLASSIFIED INFORMATION or Plame's [alleged and questionable] covert status.

It was probably a Democrat who leaked the information in order to frame the Republicans. LibDims are good at things like that and making up false memorandums!

Even if Fitzgerald finally does manage to find out who leaked Plame's [alleged and questionable] covert status -- that pales in comparison to the NSA leak. Many people already knew about Plame. The terrorist didn't know about our efforts to protect Americans and their cities from terrorist attacks until someone -- probably some liberal -- leaked -- no, flat out gave -- that information to the press and to terrorists around the world.

You worry about Plame and her $2.5 million dollar book deal (original fell through, another in the works). If someone is going to pay her $2.5 million dollars for "her story" -- which has already been told by the press over and over and over -- perhaps Fitzgerald is looking in the wrong place to learn who leaked Plame's [alleged and questionable] covert status.

I'm beginning to wonder if it could have been one of your liberal Democrat friends.

As to the rest of your lies, anyone who want to believe them -- that's your problem and THEIR problem. Anyone who trusts or believe a liberal has a serious problem in understanding facts and questioning what they are told to "think and believe" by the band of liberals!

As to those deserters, Canada can take them, Sheehan, and every liberal in the U.S. They will fit right in with the other deserters, draft dodgers, and other liberals you harbor up there with you! What ever happened to all of those liberal nuts who said they were moving to Canada if Bush won the election. I guess they lied too, because there are far too many of them who did not get the word about the mass migration to the liberal Mecca to our north!!!

AAR

And... "You can fool the liberal Democrat's mindless, unthinking, robotic flock almost all of the time!"

AAR

Good one, AAR. I find it funny that Steve bashes religious zealots on one thread, and on another, he advocates full diplomatic relations with the current regime (ahem, religious zealots) in Iran.

axis,

“Bretrayed their unit maybe, but not their nation.”
I can’t agree with that statement. They betrayed the unit they disserted first then the nation they swore to defend
“I don't agree with desertation, however I can empathize with them because of the way that the military is recruiting people. Recruiters will often lie to people, give them all kinds of promises and positive sounding things as as too as they get the signature on the dotted line, they ship them off despite what they were promised.”
They may give a sales pitch to the potential recruit, but it they don’t deliver it’s a breach of contract in today’s all voluntary military services. I had a roommate that volunteered for the Navy so that he could learn a specific skill. The Navy did not deliver and he left the Navy without any problems. People in today’s military have a contract with the government and unless the government violates that contract the recruit must uphold their end of the contract or suffer the consequences.
“I also don't think that Republicans should be speaking out against desertation considering how many draft dodgers you have, such as Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Dennis Hastert, Dick Armey, Tom Delay, Trent Lott, Newt Gingrich and others. All of these had a duty to join the war and support their country and they draft dodged to save their own skin, and now play chickenhawk with other peoples lives.
Not to mention, the great commander in chief himself, went AWOL from the National Guard and dropped out of his flight training.”
I can’t speak for Karl Rove etc. I don’t know anything about their story. Most likely what your talking about concerning them is a distortion of the facts. As for President Bush that “desertion” story was debunked during the “Rathergate”. But I guess you choose to forget that, how convenient for you.
“Most of the deserters did so because they felt seriously betrayed by their country, and those that recruited them. Many are poor and were looking for opportunity and did not know fully what they were getting into.”
Sounds like a more personal problem with ignorance, lack of forethought and blame shiftng.
“Just a couple of months ago, there was a story of an autistic man, who was not able to care for himself who was misled into enlisting, his parent who had power of attorney tried to stop it as he was legally incapable of understanding what he was signing into. The army took him anyways and shipped him off.”
The key word there is story. I am incredulous about this story. Besides I think this story has been long debunked as just a story circulated by the anti-war bunch.

Keep to the Right

Is that you Michael Moore?

Please provide proof that recruiters lied to potential recruits.

Heya Steve! Remember when you were fooled by Jason Leopald a few weeks ago on the Rove indictment. Suckers like Steve are born every minute. I am still waiting for you to say sorry about that one.

CJ, ouch, what a hard slam. I know my post did not turn out like I hoped it would. It's a bit hard to read without the spacing between what axis posted and what I wrote in reply. I was replying to what axis wrote at 10:18. I have to say axis is full of it.

Hopefully this will be easier to read.

axis,

“Bretrayed their unit maybe, but not their nation.”

I can’t agree with that statement. They betrayed the unit they disserted first then the nation they swore to defend

“I don't agree with desertation, however I can empathize with them because of the way that the military is recruiting people. Recruiters will often lie to people, give them all kinds of promises and positive sounding things as as too as they get the signature on the dotted line, they ship them off despite what they were promised.”

They may give a sales pitch to the potential recruit, but it they don’t deliver it’s a breach of contract in today’s all voluntary military services. I had a roommate that volunteered for the Navy so that he could learn a specific skill. The Navy did not deliver and he left the Navy without any problems. People in today’s military have a contract with the government and unless the government violates that contract the recruit must uphold their end of the contract or suffer the consequences.

“I also don't think that Republicans should be speaking out against desertation considering how many draft dodgers you have, such as Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Dennis Hastert, Dick Armey, Tom Delay, Trent Lott, Newt Gingrich and others. All of these had a duty to join the war and support their country and they draft dodged to save their own skin, and now play chickenhawk with other peoples lives.
Not to mention, the great commander in chief himself, went AWOL from the National Guard and dropped out of his flight training.”

I can’t speak for Karl Rove etc. I don’t know anything about their story. Most likely what your talking about concerning them is a distortion of the facts. As for President Bush that “desertion” story was debunked during the “Rathergate”. But I guess you choose to forget that, how convenient for you.

“Most of the deserters did so because they felt seriously betrayed by their country, and those that recruited them. Many are poor and were looking for opportunity and did not know fully what they were getting into.”

Sounds like a more personal problem with ignorance, lack of forethought and blame shiftng.

“Just a couple of months ago, there was a story of an autistic man, who was not able to care for himself who was misled into enlisting, his parent who had power of attorney tried to stop it as he was legally incapable of understanding what he was signing into. The army took him anyways and shipped him off.”

The key word there is story. I am incredulous about this story. Besides I think this story has been long debunked as just a story circulated by the anti-war bunch.

Ooops, sorry. A little break with paragraphs would have been nice. :)

Apology accepted CJ.

Any pictures yet of Axis and Sheehan going at it waiving the white flag?

"Recruiters will often lie to people, give them all kinds of promises and positive sounding things as as too as they get the signature on the dotted line, they ship them off despite what they were promised.”

As a former commander of the MI ARNG Recruiting & Retention Command, I can assure you that during enlistment processing at the Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS), there is the "Moment of Truth". That is when a Commissioned Officer, who has nothing to do with the recruiting process, asks each prospective enlistee if he/she has anything they want to disclose, if they were made any promises by a recruiter that was not included in writing in their enlistment contracts, and if they were enlisting voluntarily. At that point, any applicant can walk out the door.

As usual, axis is more full of s**t than a port-a-john at a county fair.

Yes, A-10 axis is full of it, and it's coming from a Canadian who had a very very very slim justification for posting here.

axis.......... how many times are you going to dredge up that old canard about the President being AWOL, blah, blah..???
You know it is not true and if you don't, you are more of a moron than I thought.Somehow, I doubt that!!!
I would advise, that this is one of your "myths" that you jettison..
it may help you not seem so useless...

My favorite axis mantra is:

"Not to mention, the great commander in chief himself, went AWOL from the National Guard and dropped out of his flight training."

Now, clearly in CANADA you can "drop out" of flight training and still be assigned a fighter jet and sent out on intercept missions.

Ooops---Canadians don't HAVE to go out on intercept missions---they have US to protect them.

In any case, every time I think axis of ignorance has reached a new record for stupidity, he comes back and repeats something like the above. "DROPPED OUT OF FLIGHT SCHOOL" is not even what they SAY, you idiot. The US lefties agree that he finished flight school and just lie about him not showing up to fly when he was supposed to.

So get your lies straight, you hoser.

I'm starting to think that axis is really a conservative who is a plant, to make Libs look even worse than they manage on their own. In which case, he is extremely effective.

But back to the thread. When I read the post, the image that popped up in my mind was Cindy surrounded by a gaggle of weedy toffee-nosed pansy losers, all of them in a giant group hug of mutual adoration, with axis and Canadian Observer bowing in front of them, chanting "...we are not worthy. We are not worthy..."

But seriously, folks---is there any way to keep them from coming back? Please?

Let me rework an old joke.

Did you hear about the deserters who ran off to Canada? Raised the IQ of both countries.

Sorry....

"Did you hear about the DESERTATIONERS who ran off to Canada....?"

ROFLOL!!!

I can’t agree with that statement. They betrayed the unit they disserted first then the nation they swore to defend

-- Ok, President Bush swore an oath to uphold the constitution and follow the law and he has broken that oath. Using your same logic, Bush has betrayed his country as well. You can't have it both ways.

They may give a sales pitch to the potential recruit, but it they don’t deliver it’s a breach of contract in today’s all voluntary military services. I had a roommate that volunteered for the Navy so that he could learn a specific skill. The Navy did not deliver and he left the Navy without any problems. People in today’s military have a contract with the government and unless the government violates that contract the recruit must uphold their end of the contract or suffer the consequences.

-- This does not seem to be the case, not in war time anyways, most of the deserters were promised to serve domestically and then they were shipped out a couple months later. The recruiters are like used car salesmen, promising an exciting adventure to new places, learning new things and money for college. The reality is far, far different. I have not heard of a single one that has been released from active Iraq duty because they did not hold up to their end.

I can’t speak for Karl Rove etc. I don’t know anything about their story. Most likely what your talking about concerning them is a distortion of the facts. As for President Bush that “desertion” story was debunked during the “Rathergate”. But I guess you choose to forget that, how convenient for you.

-- They are all draft dodgers. The Bush AWOL was NOT debunked at all and Bush cannot come up with any evidence that he actually was present in 1972.

Sounds like a more personal problem with ignorance, lack of forethought and blame shiftng.

-- They share a blame for sure, but so does the military, deceiving gullible college age kids from poor neighborhoods that are likely not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

The key word there is story. I am incredulous about this story. Besides I think this story has been long debunked as just a story circulated by the anti-war bunch.

-- Nope, its true, heres a link to the story

Ooops---Canadians don't HAVE to go out on intercept missions---they have US to protect them.

-- Nope, we don't go around poking the bear in the face, so we don't have a lot of enemies, other that those upset because of our ties to the U.S. We have an adequate air force for our needs and also as a british commonwealth country, we would have the use of her majesty's royal air force and navy if required. Canada has never called on the US to defend it and likely never will.

axis,

Looks like your "honey wagon" sprung another leak.

You really should get that fixed. People get tired of the smell!

AAR

Almiranta,

Personally, I think we should allow them back...after all, if they really don't want to go...well, they don't have to go. As long as they aren't showing battlefield cowardice, I really don't care what they do. This is an all-volunteer military...these cowards and traitors up in Canada are playing like they are the brave resisters against President Bush's Likud/Halliburton dictatorship...screw 'em. Let them come back, show the world that they aren't brave resisters, but just the traitors and cowards they are.

Mark, I happen to believe that there are some people who can make this country better only by leaving it.

And my feeling about the deserters is "Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out."

I am tired of people who suck up whatever they like about this country but are too weak, lazy, or cowardly to support it or make any contribution to its welfare or success. They are users. So there is no up side to the United States in having them return.

The funny thing is, there are millions in Canada who despise them, as well. Not all Canadians are weak-kneed little whiners like axis and CO. Canada, like the United States, is a great country, with tiny little parentheses of goofball Liberalism marring the coastlines. The people I know in Alberta would drop-kick these losers back across the border.